BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm not sure how you can say that in your final sentence above.  On the U.S. income affidavit, the applicant is writing and declaring a specific amount of monthly income. And the consulate officer is signing and stamping that document that confirms you, the applicant, made that declaration. So the officer does know and see the amount you're declaring. They just don't get into making you prove all the details of the declared amount.

 

Yes, they can read it etc but in theory you can make an affidavit declaring you are an alien from the planet Zarkron. write it, sign it, and they will stamp it

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Cheers. So what it boils down to, and the difference is that you must all visit the Embassy to sign and get your letter while, although we apparently need to supply more accurate information. we don't visit our Embassy for our signature to be verified by them.

Yes, agree, UK income letters are different to the other consulate as they write and sign the letter, they are the signatory. All other consulates the citizen is the signatory. We dont get a letter from consulate, we write a letter and sign it.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Peterw42

[theoldgit]

42 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

in fact people have called immigration and been told its business as usual.

Including at least one person who got his wife to call their local Immigration Office and asked if they could still make "under the table payments'' and was allegedly told "we will still be providing that service".

 

So it would seem that bribery and corruption is still expected to continue in at least one Immigration Office.

[8OA8]

4 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

That's BS, there is no such requirement that funds originated outside of Thailand. The officer you spoke to was making up their own rules. I've always used money that originated in Thailand (investment income) as the deposit. However, if they question you on the source then you should be able show them where it came from.  

Well the "That's BS" hopefully wasn't directed at me as thats what actually happened to me. Regardless of requirements that wa the request or rather the moving the process of moving on to the next stage. Of course perhaps you were also on a BOI supported visa for many years and didn't experience this, nevertheless this was my experience that I was sharing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

 

That's the U.S. Embassy quoting what Thai Immigration's requirements are. And the "proof" Thai Immigration traditionally has required is the consulate income letters.

 

That website text you reference is NOT the U.S. Embassy saying they are demanding financial proof themselves be provided to the U.S. Embassy.

 

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, 8OA8 said:

Well the "That's BS" hopefully wasn't directed at me as thats what actually happened to me. Regardless of requirements that wa the request or rather the moving the process of moving on to the next stage. Of course perhaps you were also on a BOI supported visa for many years and didn't experience this, nevertheless this was my experience that I was sharing.

Some offices want the "initial" 800k to come from outside Thailand (O visa conversion), ongoing yearly extensions its not usually a requirement

[Jingthing]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

Some offices want the "initial" 800k to come from outside Thailand (O visa conversion), ongoing yearly extensions its not usually a requirement

That's exactly right but I would have thought all offices need the funds to be imported for the conversion process and also all offices don't care about it for extensions. 

[tropo]

22 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

Yeah, but I'd have to turn up with long lists of transactions on multiple overseas bank accounts PLUS a Thai account. I don't believe the Immigration office would have the time or motivation to sift through a stack of paperwork to ascertain if I'm spending at least 65k per month. If they do change the general procedure to accommodate the British Embassy's new no-income-letter policy, I suspect they will only accept evidence of actual deposits on a Thai account verified by a bank letter.

[newatthis]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's the U.S. Embassy quoting what Thai Immigration's requirements are. And the "proof" Thai Immigration traditionally has required is the consulate income letters.

 

That website text you reference is NOT the U.S. Embassy saying they are demanding financial proof themselves be provided to the U.S. Embassy.

 

Correct,

[galt67]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's the U.S. Embassy quoting what Thai Immigration's requirements are. And the "proof" Thai Immigration traditionally has required is the consulate income letters.

 

That website text you reference is NOT the U.S. Embassy saying they are demanding financial proof themselves be provided to the U.S. Embassy.

 

Correct on both counts.

 

My reply (point) I was attempting to make:

 

Thai Imm CAN, under the EXISTING rules, REQUIRE 'proof of income' from OUTSIDE Thailand using the monthly affidavit method. As with the initial 800k deposit method.

 

Commenters have mentioned using 'rental income from Thai properties', for example, as at least(?) part of their income thus meeting the threshold. Clearly, legally, this does NOT.

 

 

.

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

Thats the US consulate quoting Thai immigration wish-list, they even provide a link to Thai MFA. Thai immigration want proof and acceptable proof is an income letter.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just to keep some perspective on this....

 

Thus far, AFAIK, we haven't heard any news or announcement from ANY other country's embassy regarding them also planning to discontinue income affidavit letters. So for now at least, it's only a British Embassy thing.

 

[skatewash]

3 hours ago, xylophone said:

You can put the funds into a term deposit here for seeding purposes, so do get a little interest.

Mee Tae Dai savings account at Krungsri Bank pays currently 1.3% interest, no automatic withholding as in a fixed-rate term deposit.  It's been accepted by Phuket Immigration for the last four years.

[8OA8]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's exactly right but I would have thought all offices need the funds to be imported for the conversion process and also all offices don't care about it for extensions. 

Actually I had a bigger issue in that the seasoned funds were sitting in my current (cheque) account and the officer said no good as they need to be in a deposit account, three months further down the road with the money in a different account and I finally get the visa or rather retirement extention sorted out. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Commenters have mentioned using 'rental income from Thai properties', for example, as at least(?) part of their income thus meeting the threshold. Clearly, legally, this does NOT..

 

And probably more to the point, those on retirement extensions of stay in Thailand probably are not legally able to be receiving rental income from Thai properties, since retirement extensions don't allow employment or work permits.

 

[Golden Brown]

Today I visited Immigration Office Chiang Rai to do my 90 day report.   I asked the IO about the BE no longer doing the letter to facilitate income declaration.   She had not heard anything about this and asked how I was going to supply such data without a supporting letter.   Obviously, this information has not as yet (at least at IO CR) filtered through.   I then asked how long the embassy letter confirming income is valid for.   She stated 6 months and as my extension is due on the 1st May, 2019 a letter issued in December would be valid.   I asked her to verify this, which she did.   Therefore, on this information, at least for CR those who have to renew their extension prior to mid June will/should be ok for another year.   I know this may change, just for info as of today.

[yang123]

Could it be, just possibly, that the British Embassy introduced the change unilaterally before consulting with other embassies? 

Surely not... 

[sumrit]

29 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, agree, UK income letters are different to the other consulate as they write and sign the letter, they are the signatory. All other consulates the citizen is the signatory.

So in recent years, in the name of efficiency, they've firstly removed the option of us visiting the British Embassy to get our letters and replaced it with postal applications only, then they went the next step to include the option of email/electronic applications as well. 

While the Thai Immigration department insists on an applicant's verified signature.

And all other Embassies comply with this.

 

Over the years I've used all three methods available but don't ever remember having to sign the letter or have my signature verified. I do remember, at one time in the past, being told there was a possible issue over the wording of a letter but a verified signature being required was never mentioned. This problem must have been going on for a few years now.

[Spidey]

Just now, yang123 said:

Could it be, just possibly, that the British Embassy introduced the change unilaterally before consulting with other embassies? 

Surely not... 

Why would they consult with other embassys? The process is to consult with the F.O. who obviously made this change in policy.

[tropo]

54 minutes ago, richiejom said:

This is what I said to him...

 

Surely the Thai Immigration alternative should be to show 3 months deposits of 65-40K a month...I don't know how you could prove income otherwise if you applied from your home country or in my case applying after arriving on a Non Immigrant Single Entry.  (You're not going to be depositing 12 months prior to arriving)   It doesn't make sense

 

 Luckily Ive got an income letter now

I doubt that would work. It would be too easy to cheat. Everyone would start doing that and no longer depositing the full 800k.

[yang123]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Why would they consult with other embassys? The process is to consult with the F.O. who obviously made this change in policy.

Perhaps to establish if there was a form of wording they could borrow and live with which was known to be satisfactory to Thai Immigration?  

[geoffbezoz]

Not posted before but now I received my marriage extension last month I am concerned for next year. This year I got letter from the Embassy because with my disability it is not easy to travel to a bank to get a letter. If the Embassy is stopping providing letters of confirmation what are the current regulations and option for getting an extension due to marriage ?  The reason I ask is that having read so many pages of this thread, but not all, most people are talking about a retirement extension which does not apply to me. I also seem to recall then when enquiring for this year I could either show 400000 baht in a Thai bank or alternatively show I had an income of 40000 per month which is the route I took. I may be confused but is it not the case that the 40000 per month can be income from anywhere outside of Thailand?

 

Also what does the British Embassy think is going to happen to all those people married to Thais, who have been reliant on this letter to get their marriage extension and spend all their pension income on their Thai wife and family for everyday needs, and have nothing left over to save up for the alternative option of having 400000 in a Thai bank ?

 

Maybe the Thai authorities will amend their rules to differentiate more between people on a retirement visa and those with an extension based on marriage and having a Thai family so that it is easier for them to stay and support them.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Golden Brown said:

Today I visited Immigration Office Chiang Rai to do my 90 day report.   I asked the IO about the BE no longer doing the letter to facilitate income declaration.   She had not heard anything about this and asked how I was going to supply such data without a supporting letter.   Obviously, this information has not as yet (at least at IO CR) filtered through.   I then asked how long the embassy letter confirming income is valid for.   She stated 6 months and as my extension is due on the 1st May, 2019 a letter issued in December would be valid.   I asked her to verify this, which she did.   Therefore, on this information, at least for CR those who have to renew their extension prior to mid June will/should be ok for another year.   I know this may change, just for info as of today.

There will be none of these "immigration know nothing about it" posts, it doesn't sit well with the wild unsubstantiated speculation and mindlessly repeated false information.

I think you are the 3rd or 4th person who has now asked immigration and been told its not the case.

[8OA8]

2 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Perhaps to establish if there was a form of wording they could borrow and live with which was known to be satisfactory to Thai Immigration?  

 

3 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Perhaps to establish if there was a form of wording they could borrow and live with which was known to be satisfactory to Thai Immigration?  

Please don't be mistaking the leaders with the followers. 

[Spidey]

Just now, geoffbezoz said:

Also what does the British Embassy think is going to happen to all those people married to Thais, who have been reliant on this letter to get their marriage extension and spend all their pension income on their Thai wife and family for everyday needs, and have nothing left over to save up for the alternative option of having 400000 in a Thai bank ?

They don't give a monkey's. Their only concern is to protect themselves from any possible, however unlikely, liabilities.

[JLCrab]

56 minutes ago, galt67 said:

From the US Embassy BKK the '65k month income' must be provable:

 

Applicant must be able to provide proof of a pension or other regular income from a source outside of Thailand

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/thai-visas-americans/

 

That information I believe would be for O-A Visa obtained in US at Thai Embassy Washington DC and official consulates.

[galt67]

9 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thats the US consulate quoting Thai immigration wish-list, they even provide a link to Thai MFA. Thai immigration want proof and acceptable proof is an income letter.

Correct.

 

US Consulate (a branch of US BKK Embassy) providing TODAYs 'provable items' that Thai Imm MIGHT/COULD request from you. 

 

And, per at least one commenter, CM Imm DID demand 'proof.'

 

What percent of Americans could 'prove' their '65kB/month' from outside Thailand?

 

Me, I couldn't thus I have a TE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, yang123 said:

Perhaps to establish if there was a form of wording they could borrow and live with which was known to be satisfactory to Thai Immigration?  

Its not the wording etc, the main difference is UK income letter the consulate is the writer and signatory of the letters. All the other consulates the letters are written and signed by the citizen (the consulate just verifies you wrote it and signed it)

An income letter from Australia, Canada US etc, immigration has the writer and signatory sitting in front of them applying for an extension.

A UK income letter, the writer and signatory is sitting in the UK consulate.

[galt67]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That information I believe would be for O-A Visa obtained in US at Thai Embassy Washington DC and official consulates.

It's from the 'US Embassy and Consulate in Bangkok' and I see nothing that these requirements only apply to the 'O-A visa'...?

 

Perhaps I missed something? Source for your statement?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

A UK income letter, the writer and signatory is sitting in the UK consulate.

 

And they're certainly an unsavory bunch of ill-repute, as is well known....