"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[dick dasterdly]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Which might indicate that British expats might want to complain and complain LOUDLY in numbers to their embassy. At the very least they need their embassy to clarify if they have some kind of official buy in from Thai immigration that British national's income applications will be accepted without any income letter if other rules are met. Or if they don't have such buy in from Thai immigration as I strongly suspect, they need to make a major edit of their announcement directing people to make such applications without letters.

I agree.  But how to do that?

 

I've tried emailing them, and just get the automatic response referring me to their website, and from other threads I gather trying to 'phone them is a waste of time.

 

I suspect the only way is to hold a placard outside the embassy, decrying their lack of care about Brits. in Thailand!

[Jeffrey346]

3 minutes ago, TommyDee said:

REPLY FROM FABULOUS 103FM.

 

this is an in accurate report which takes words from sentences to change the meaning and omits other words which qualify the statements made on our radio and TV.  Piss poor reporting by Thai visa I am afraid.  Dan  I expected better of your team.

 

Regards

 

Tommy

If you're saying it's in accurate, what exactly was reported by your radio station?

[observer90210]

They want to ban the visa agents so that's fine !.......but the consequence could be in the immigration police officer directly ca$hing the "fast-service-hasslefree-fee" ?...that's what going to ultimately happen if they start to crackdown on the visa agents. ????

Edited October 9, 2018 by observer90210

[lometogo]

Up in the north country, at Chiang Mai immigration, these offices have stopped accepting USA consulate statements of income. Why? Because the fine print on said consulate provided form states that they do NOT confirm veracity of applicant’s statement. 

 

Even though the income requirement isn’t an issue for me, I have to say the general feeling from govt and police officials generally makes me wonder how much I want to stay. Been here 10 years and feeling less welcome every day. Thai people generally very kind and welcoming—officialdom drones not so much. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, lometogo said:

Up in the north country, at Chiang Mai immigration, these offices have stopped accepting USA consulate statements of income. Why? Because the fine print on said consulate provided form states that they do NOT confirm veracity of applicant’s statement. 

 

Even though the income requirement isn’t an issue for me, I have to say the general feeling from govt and police officials generally makes me wonder how much I want to stay. Been here 10 years and feeling less welcome every day. Thai people generally very kind and welcoming—officialdom drones not so much. 

That is not accurate.

CM still requires the income letter of all nationalities.

So they are still "accepting" the income letters in the sense that they are REQUIRING the income letters.

But whether they accept those letters as reflecting the truth is another matter.

They may require additional evidence of that stated income to be presented directly to Thai immigration at time of application. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Jingthing

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, gamini said:

I'm not surprised this has happened because many expats did not receive the income that they claim to have. The UK embassy does not have the facilities to check the income is genuine.
Anyone could present a letter from an investment broker like I did and get the letter from the UK embassy. Anyone with knowledge of photoshop could make a fake letter. So you can't blame the Thais for this. 

But I don't see a real problem because if you have a genuine income or pension you have to go to the Ministry of foreign affairs to verify it. Apparently you only have to do this one time not go every year.   So anyone with a genuine income or pension will not really be affected that much.

Really?  First I've heard of being able to go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to verify proof of income.

 

More info. would be appreciated.

[galt67]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But they and really ANY embassy could easily verify claims made about government pensions. Government pensions generally can provide letters confirming benefits. They could even get a direct computer connection to verify that. Maybe add a charge. Other forms of income, yes that would be different and more problematical. But government pensions are likely the most common type of income reported by retired expats.

 

Source for this statement?

 

My informal poll of expats shows zero percent receiving a 'government pension' equaling 65kB/month.

 

Government pensions AND/or private pensions AND/or overseas rental income AND/or investing income (dividends, interest) is what I have been told.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Really?  First I've heard of being able to go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to verify proof of income.

 

More info. would be appreciated.

Indeed. That would be major news and I'm very skeptical about it because if it's true it would have been widely publicized by now!

Imagine so you have a government pension FOR LIFE.

You go to that office and get the document which would according to this member be good FOR LIFE.

No need to get income letters annually from your embassy any longer.

I simply do not believe it.

But if it's true, I would be happy to be proven wrong. 

[robertson468]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"..Let's deal with FACTS, rather than assumptions and wishes, shall we?"

 

You are assuming that thousands of people are going to have trouble; that is not realistic.

 

 

Right, the facts so far are:

 

Thai Visa prior to this publication posted a notice claiming to be from the British Embassy to say, no more letters of confirmation of income and that one had to either deposit 800,00 baht or 400,000 baht if married to a Thai, or prove income in to Thailand of 65,000 baht monthly.  Those are the facts and I have seen nothing so far to refute that.

 

However, lets say I go for my next one year Visa and presumably have to provide a Thai Bank Statement proving the income of whatever option I use.  So what if person (a) decides on the monthly income option.  What is to stop a couple of pals transfering money to each other's accounts monthly to reach the required monthly amount and then transfering it back?  Or if you have a working Wife, she can deposit her salary in to your Account and then draw on it, on an as required basis.  Hopefully this little bit of "thinking outside the box" might help to de-stress some of you sitting around wringing your hands together, wondering how you are going to cope with this implementation of a somewhat old regulation!

[connda]

I brought this up with the Thai missus. 
Her reaction: "Too many farang here.  Some have to go.  Immigration protect country." 
Me: "So, how are you going to live if I'm force to leave if by chance I get sick and have to draw down my retirement banked in Thailand."

Her: <silence>

 

What I find distressing is that many of us have the income, period.  But we're constrained by a bureaucracy that will not accept income letters provided by the company that issues our pension.  That should be a no-brainer.
"We only accept income letter verified by embassy." 
But the embassy won't issue a letter anymore. 
"So sad, too bad for you farang.  Go home."
So now they demand that funds be moved from your pension provider to a Thai bank account?  But that can't happen because our respective governments have Machiavellian banking rules in place that make transferring International funds a nightmare and unduly expensive - so pension providers simply choose not to participate and will only deposit funds domestically.  Catch-22! 

What I see coming down the pike may end up a human rights disaster if retirees who support Thais are force out of the country due to some Catch-22 bull-dip bureaucracy that doesn't allow those who meet the financial requirement to stay.  This is utter BS!

Edited October 9, 2018 by connda

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Source for this statement?

 

My informal poll of expats shows zero percent receiving a 'government pension' equaling 65kB/month.

 

Government pensions AND/or private pensions AND/or overseas rental income AND/or investing income (dividends, interest) is what I have been told.

I did not mention any specific number dude!

If it was 40K a month then you can do a combination application. 

But you're right of course people use different kinds of income than government pensions.

But government pensions are very common for older people and that is one type of income it should be very easy for any government to verify of their own nationals!

Edited October 9, 2018 by Jingthing

[TommyDee]

11 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

If you're saying it's in accurate, what exactly was reported by your radio station?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, connda said:

I brought this up with the Thai missus. 
Her reaction: "Too many farang here.  Some have to go.  Immigration protect country." 
Me: So, how are you going to live if I'm force to leave if my chance I get sick and have to draw down my retirement banked in Thailand.

Her: <silence>

 

I don't think this whole visa/extensions issue is going to end up being as dire as the rest of your post suggested.

 

However, I do think your wife's short-sighted, non-aware response is illustrative of what goes on here among the locals on so many levels.

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, Fred31 said:

So this is the British Embassy mean mindedly saving a typist salary and screwing the people it is meant to be helping?

We have to pay for the income letter, so I doubt they'll save a typist's salary as a result of this decision....

 

Agree wholeheartedly that they are screwing some of us Brits. living in Thailand, but they are making it even clearer that their existence has nothing to do with providing help/assistance to nationals.

[poanoi]

44 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Can't peeps just do their own paperwork? Geez, is it really that difficult or are peeps in Pattaya that lazy?

its that, at least in my case, i know already they dont feel like giving me extension, they just stall by asking ever more proof until times up and i have to leave and apply for another visa,

immigration officers prefer a good chunk of money from agents in extortion.

i got too much pain to make visa runs and too much pain to leave, alas i pay agent 10 times extra for visa

Edited October 9, 2018 by poanoi

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

But the Brit. Embassy always required PROOF of income to accompany the application for the proof of income letter!  And of course, they charged for the service.

 

Would they really let down all the Brits. using the proof of income route, by refusing to issue the required certification in future??!

YES.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, TommyDee said:

 

 

"We can be assured that others, if not all, will follow..."

 

Really???  And the source for that conclusion is???

 

[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

The BE in Bangkok was recently sold it was the most expensive real estate in Thailand , they are re-locating to a smaller Embassy which in turn will mean staff reductions which in turn will require a lessor workload and I suppose at the top of the heap to be kicked into touch is the “ Income Letter “ they I am sure are regarded as a pain in the backside as far as the Embassy are concerned . Having been posted to the BE in Washington DC in the 80s even in those days the British Government came down hard on Embassy budgets and I have no doubt that with the current British Government it’s much the same. It would have been a lot smarter if the Embassy in BKK came up with a reason as to why they are stopping this service but you only have to look at what has been sourced out from this particular Embassy over the last 5/6 years and I believe more is to follow. ????

We paid for the embassy letter, so I find it hard to believe that it's for financial reasons.

[Jeffrey346]

6 minutes ago, TommyDee said:

 

Thanks very much. Your report is certainly a bit different from what has been reported on TV...

[wgdanson]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That is not accurate.

CM still requires the income letter of all nationalities.

So they are still "accepting" the income letters in the sense that they are REQUIRING the income letters.

But whether they accept those letters as reflecting the truth is another matter.

They may require additional evidence of that stated income to be presented directly to Thai immigration at time of application. 

So what can we do. Show the same bank statements we sent to the Consulate to the Immigration Officer and say 'Make head or tail of that ,  mate

[brommers]

Surely the issue is not Thai Immigration! They have not introduced anything new with regards to visa application or extension. It is the British Embassy that is the source of the problem.

 

As a Brit I quickly realised decades ago that the British Embassies around the world have no interest in British citizens, nor giving them anything like good service. Back in Blighty the government has always seen expats and tourists as a pain the backside or as traitors for leaving the Sceptred Isle.

 

So now the British Embassy once again degrades the service to British passport holders, and yet most posts are nattering on about Thai Immigration.

 

If you can't meet the clearly stated & long standing conditions then you cannot stay here. If you were trying to skate around regulations in the UK you would be swiftly turfed out of that country. So why is Thailand wrong?

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, Doznotdiz said:

and pension income which would require accumulation and conversion to baht.

'No, the Immigration Officer converts it to Baht at that day's exchange rate.

[dick dasterdly]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Dunno about the BE Embassy economics. But at the U.S. Embassy, the affidavits cost $50 each and probably require at max 5-10 mins of staff time per affidavit.  By my calculation, that works out to be a pretty nice little earner, multiplied by many thousands of repeats per year.

 

From memory (so I could be wrong), Brits. paid 54 sterling for their proof of income letters...

[stanleycoin]

4 minutes ago, brommers said:

 Back in Blighty the government has always seen expats and tourists as a pain the backside or as traitors for leaving the Sceptred Isle.

That's just so 100% true. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by stanleycoin

[PETDCAT]

In Chiang Mai last week i renewed my retirement visa. When I went to the US consulate I had my income statement filled out already from a copy I picked up on my last visit. I was told to fill out new form that has additional sentence added that Thai immigration  requested. The sentence says: the U.S. Consulate does not guarantee the contents of the sworn statement. When I submitted my paperwork to immigration the officer highlighted in yellow this sentence and told me I needed additional paperwork. I went home and copied a pension statement and returned to immigration. She glanced at it and said fine. So I said no point in paying the Consulate the $50.00, if this paper is enough. "No" she said you need both. This was last week on Tuesday....things might be different already

[Jingthing]

After watching that video, all I can say is -- Oh balls!

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, PETDCAT said:

In Chiang Mai last week i renewed my retirement visa. When I went to the US consulate I had my income statement filled out already from a copy I picked up on my last visit. I was told to fill out new form that has additional sentence added that Thai immigration  requested. The sentence says: the U.S. Consulate does not guarantee the contents of the sworn statement. When I submitted my paperwork to immigration the officer highlighted in yellow this sentence and told me I needed additional paperwork. I went home and copied a pension statement and returned to immigration. She glanced at it and said fine. So I said no point in paying the Consulate the $50.00, if this paper is enough. "No" she said you need both. This was last week on Tuesday....things might be different already

That actually sounds fine to me. If Thai immigration still accepts those letters with a disclaimer and then demands evidence to support the claim. Most of us are making legit claims and are in a position to prove it. Especially easy with a government pension. 

[ravip]

2 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...?

 

 

 

It could be a robot...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, PETDCAT said:

In Chiang Mai last week i renewed my retirement visa. When I went to the US consulate I had my income statement filled out already from a copy I picked up on my last visit. I was told to fill out new form that has additional sentence added that Thai immigration  requested. The sentence says: the U.S. Consulate does not guarantee the contents of the sworn statement. When I submitted my paperwork to immigration the officer highlighted in yellow this sentence and told me I needed additional paperwork. I went home and copied a pension statement and returned to immigration. She glanced at it and said fine. So I said no point in paying the Consulate the $50.00, if this paper is enough. "No" she said you need both. This was last week on Tuesday....things might be different already

 

That request for backup documentation is something that's been going on lately at CM Immigration to a greater or lesser extent, but no sign it's become an overall policy at BKK or elsewhere thus far.

 

And as I've mentioned several times here already now, I did a new retirement extension at BKK Immigration just a month back with a U.S. income affidavit, and no additional documentation was requested.

 

[The manic]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Perhaps I am missing something, but...

 

If you have the money, you will not have a problem. If you don't, what are you doing here?

 

Forgive me, but what is the big deal? They aren't going to toss people in the ocean, are they?

 

It seems like a simple administrative matter and a solution will come.

 

Chill.

 

Have the money but in home country bank?