"Certificate of Residence" - I Need To Get New One

[JetsetBkk]

My current "Receipt of Notification of Alien's Address" is nearly 4 years old.

At the last 90-day report, the Immigration Officer said I must get a new one and gave me the small note below:

 

 

Anyone else given this note and had to do this?

 

Sounds like the owner - my landlord - has to accompany me unless I get a "Power of Attorney" letter.

I don't like the sound of that!

 

[damascase]

I do not understand - a ‘receipt of notification for alien’s address’ is  a tm30, and has, imho, nothing to do with a Certificate of Residence.

[LivinginKata]

4 years ... wow. So you never stayed any other place in all that time ? I suggest you just register you place of address online and then register yourself. No paperwork. No fuss. Self declaration. see previous topics.

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by LivinginKata

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

4 years ... wow. So you never stayed any other place in all that time ? I suggest you just register you place of address online and then register yourself. No paperwork. No fuss. Self declaration. see previous topics.

 

 

 

"No fuss"? 6 pages of people saying it works, doesn't work, it's only for businesses and it's only for hotels.

 

I just rent - retired, no business, no work permit.

 

So I'll get the usual stuff from my landlord and take everything else I think they want and see what happens.

 

It's the first line I that I didn't fully understand:

"In case of the owner or possessor come to contact by self".

 

I'm now thinking that by "possessor" they mean "occupier", i.e. me, so there's no problem - I know what copies they want and the landlord - who is a very, very nice man - doesn't have to show up with me.

 

Yes, 4 years (more, actually) in one place. Terrible.

 

I suppose if I said my TM6 is 16 years old you'd be really shocked.

 

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, damascase said:

I do not understand - a ‘receipt of notification for alien’s address’ is  a tm30, and has, imho, nothing to do with a Certificate of Residence.

You're right, but I think the IO gave me that slip just because it listed all the documents they want to see for the "Notification of Alien's Address" form - TM30.

 

The Certificate of Residence is the 300 baht (i.e. "free") certificate you need for driving licenses and such.

 

[LivinginKata]

4 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

"No fuss"? 6 pages of people saying it works, doesn't work, it's only for businesses and it's only for hotels.

 

I just rent - retired, no business, no work permit.

 

So I'll get the usual stuff from my landlord and take everything else I think they want and see what happens.

 

It's the first line I that I didn't fully understand:

"In case of the owner or possessor come to contact by self".

 

I'm now thinking that by "possessor" they mean "occupier", i.e. me, so there's no problem - I know what copies they want and the landlord - who is a very, very nice man - doesn't have to show up with me.

 

Yes, 4 years (more, actually) in one place. Terrible.

 

I suppose if I said my TM6 is 16 years old you'd be really shocked.

 

 

 I was not mocking you about 4 years same place.  And I thought I had a boring life with just one fly away holiday in Thailand each year. And one fly away holiday in SE Asia every 2 years.

 

But back to Immigration. So sure they want you you to re-register. The online works. I have registered 2 of my own properties and one for a friend. I explained how to do it in detail on that thread. Only problem is it's all in Thai. You just need to know the house tabian baan details. Owner name and address. You don't submit any papers. Try it. 

 

  

[JetsetBkk]

8 minutes ago, LivinginKata said:

 I was not mocking you about 4 years same place.  And I thought I had a boring life with just one fly away holiday in Thailand each year. And one fly away holiday in SE Asia every 2 years.

No problem - I was having a laugh myself. I lived in this place in the 2000's for 4 years, went to two different places in Phuket town for a few years each, decided I'd rather be back in Rawai and was lucky enough to get the same house after waiting a few months for the occupiers to move out. I doubt I'll go anywhere else now.

 

I've often thought about visiting India again, but it's getting the enthusiasm up that's the problem.

 

[hkt83100]

13 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

Yes, 4 years (more, actually) in one place. Terrible.

Don't worry, I have been living 23 years in the same house until I moved away from Phuket. By the way, the rent never went up in this time.

[BoganInParasite]

500 baht in Nan, no receipt. ????

[Nurseynutcase]

I too was given this to fill in/supply when I went to Phuket immigration last week.

Got it all done and going again on Thursday.

[Psimbo]

5 hours ago, BoganInParasite said:

500 baht in Nan, no receipt. ????

Fascinating but this is about PHUKET!!!!!

[skatewash]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:23 PM, JetsetBkk said:

"No fuss"? 6 pages of people saying it works, doesn't work, it's only for businesses and it's only for hotels.

 

I just rent - retired, no business, no work permit.

 

So I'll get the usual stuff from my landlord and take everything else I think they want and see what happens.

 

It's the first line I that I didn't fully understand:

"In case of the owner or possessor come to contact by self".

 

I'm now thinking that by "possessor" they mean "occupier", i.e. me, so there's no problem - I know what copies they want and the landlord - who is a very, very nice man - doesn't have to show up with me.

 

Yes, 4 years (more, actually) in one place. Terrible.

 

I suppose if I said my TM6 is 16 years old you'd be really shocked.

 

There's nothing wrong with going there to Phuket Immigration yourself as the possessor of the property with the documents specified.  There should be no problem doing that.  However, online reporting is an excellent alternative if you have the patience to set it up the first time, especially if you are likely to do any sort of travel outside of Thailand in the future.  Every time you return to Thailand you must notify Thai Immigration of the address where you will be staying within 24 of arrival at that address.  Thai immigration can figure out if you have done this or not, but as in all things, it's up to them whether they want to enforce this rule.

I'm the OP of the thread that LivingInKata linked to above.  I wrote a how-to guide for doing the online reporting of your address.  And then about a week later immigration completely switched everything around.  Murphy's law in action.  So, if you decide to try the online registration my advice is to skip anything I wrote in that thread and start reading from LivingInKata's comments.  It really does work and it's awfully nice when it does as you avoid the trip to immigration within 24 hours of your arrival back at your home.  It's an easy way to comply with the letter of the law even if immigration decides not to enforce it so strictly.  It's basically the same reporting mechanism that hotels use but Phuket Immigration is one of the immigration offices that allows regular people to use it as well.  It's a very nice thing that Phuket Immigration does, but don't feel you have to go that way, it's also possible to report in person.  It's also possible (but not something I would recommend) to not report at all and then see if Phuket Immigration catches you, especially if you're a gambling man. ???? 

[JetsetBkk]

8 hours ago, skatewash said:

There's nothing wrong with going there to Phuket Immigration yourself as the possessor of the property with the documents specified.  There should be no problem doing that.  However, online reporting is an excellent alternative if you have the patience to set it up the first time, especially if you are likely to do any sort of travel outside of Thailand in the future.  Every time you return to Thailand you must notify Thai Immigration of the address where you will be staying within 24 of arrival at that address.  Thai immigration can figure out if you have done this or not, but as in all things, it's up to them whether they want to enforce this rule.

I'm the OP of the thread that LivingInKata linked to above.  I wrote a how-to guide for doing the online reporting of your address.  And then about a week later immigration completely switched everything around.  Murphy's law in action.  So, if you decide to try the online registration my advice is to skip anything I wrote in that thread and start reading from LivingInKata's comments.  It really does work and it's awfully nice when it does as you avoid the trip to immigration within 24 hours of your arrival back at your home.  It's an easy way to comply with the letter of the law even if immigration decides not to enforce it so strictly.  It's basically the same reporting mechanism that hotels use but Phuket Immigration is one of the immigration offices that allows regular people to use it as well.  It's a very nice thing that Phuket Immigration does, but don't feel you have to go that way, it's also possible to report in person.  It's also possible (but not something I would recommend) to not report at all and then see if Phuket Immigration catches you, especially if you're a gambling man. ???? 

Thanks for your post, SW. Yes, I read that thread and by the end of it I was so confused that I decided to go in person. As you say, a lot of things changed during the course of that thread and as my landlord has already supplied me with copies of his ID card, tabien baans, new rental agreement, etc, I will be going on Thursday.

 

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether I should complete a TM30 form. Any help there would be appreciated. I do have a copy of the form - see attached.

 

I rarely stay anywhere else, and only need to renew the "Notification of Address" slip because it is nearly 4 years old, and the Immi. Officer told me to. So I won't be doing it again - hopefully - for another 4 years.

 

[skatewash]

15 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

Thanks for your post, SW. Yes, I read that thread and by the end of it I was so confused that I decided to go in person. As you say, a lot of things changed during the course of that thread and as my landlord has already supplied me with copies of his ID card, tabien baans, new rental agreement, etc, I will be going on Thursday.

 

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether I should complete a TM30 form. Any help there would be appreciated. I do have a copy of the form - see attached.

 

I rarely stay anywhere else, and only need to renew the "Notification of Address" slip because it is nearly 4 years old, and the Immi. Officer told me to. So I won't be doing it again - hopefully - for another 4 years.

 

3

Under the circumstances, I would definitely fill in the TM-30.  What you showed is the first page.  The first section is geared toward the person filling in this form.  Sounds like that would be you as possessor, so you put your name here as well as your current address (the one you are reporting you stay at).  (Note: that this could have been done by your landlord, in which case he would have put his name and address information here).

The second section is the address where the alien stays.  Again, as you are filling in the form you would put your current address here (same as section one).  (Note: if you landlord was filling-in this section he would put the address where you stay here).  If it seems like you're entering the same information twice, you are, first as the reporter (possessor) and once as the person staying at that address.  They wouldn't always be the same person, but in this case, they are.
 

There is a second page to the TM-30 form that you should also fill in.  This second page is often printed in landscape mode and you should enter information for only one line for yourself (date of entry, passport number, etc.).

One advantage of doing the online is that generally you don't get asked for all the documentation you will be providing in person (owner's tabian bahn, Thai ID, etc.).  They may require that information in the future, but as of now (my understanding) it isn't required in order to get the account set up.  The volunteers can be helpful in giving your TM-30 the once over to make sure everything is ready to go and whether you have all the support documentation you need (sounds like you do) and give you your queue number.  There have been improvements in the processing time at Phuket Immigration, possibly due to some customers doing the reporting online.  Benefits them and benefits the people who prefer to do it in person.  Win-win.

Edited October 17, 2018 by skatewash

[JetsetBkk]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

Under the circumstances, I would definitely fill in the TM-30.  What you showed is the first page.  The first section is geared toward the person filling in this form.  Sounds like that would be you as possessor, so you put your name here as well as your current address (the one you are reporting you stay at).  (Note: that this could have been done by your landlord, in which case he would have put his name and address information here).

The second section is the address where the alien stays.  Again, as you are filling in the form you would put your current address here (same as section one).  (Note: if you landlord was filling-in this section he would put the address where you stay here).  If it seems like you're entering the same information twice, you are, first as the reporter (possessor) and once as the person staying at that address.  They wouldn't always be the same person, but in this case, they are.
 

There is a second page to the TM-30 form that you should also fill in.  This second page is often printed in landscape mode and you should enter information for only one line for yourself (date of entry, passport number, etc.).

One advantage of doing the online is that generally you don't get asked for all the documentation you will be providing in person (owner's tabian bahn, Thai ID, etc.).  They may require that information in the future, but as of now (my understanding) it isn't required in order to get the account set up.  The volunteers can be helpful in giving your TM-30 the once over to make sure everything is ready to go and whether you have all the support documentation you need (sounds like you do) and give you your queue number.  There have been improvements in the processing time at Phuket Immigration, possibly due to some customers doing the reporting online.  Benefits them and benefits the people who prefer to do it in person.  Win-win.

Wow! Brilliant post - thanks SW. You covered everything that was puzzling me.

1. Do I fill in page 1 twice? Yes. (I wasn't going to.)

2. What about the second page? Yes, I have that in my "TM30.doc" file which I downloaded from somewhere years ago. So I've printed that off and will fill it in.

3. Get it checked by the volunteers? Yes.

 

The only fly in the ointment is the fact that the house I stay in is owned by my landlord's sister and he doesn't have her ID or tabien baan to copy. But he went to the land office and had a note put in the tabien baan on page 1 before he photocopied it. He says he's done this before for another house that he manages that is owned by his sister, and Immigration accept it.

 

That note consists of three lines on the left at the bottom of page 1. They were added using a rubber stamp as they are missing from a previous copy of the tabien baan that I have. I edited out the handwritten entries as they may be sensitive, but I'm curious to know what the Thai means:

 

[skatewash]

As a practical matter I seriously doubt that Thai immigration would care whether the owner provided the information or the owner's designated agent.

 

What might be more of a concern is that the person signing the rental contract is the same person supplying the tabian bahn and Thai ID.  In other words it's not like Thai immigration is conducting a title search they just want names to match up in the various documents.  If they care to check, that is.

 

I don't think you'll have any problems.  Good luck!

Edited October 17, 2018 by skatewash

[JetsetBkk]

On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 8:24 PM, skatewash said:

As a practical matter I seriously doubt that Thai immigration would care whether the owner provided the information or the owner's designated agent.

 

What might be more of a concern is that the person signing the rental contract is the same person supplying the tabian bahn and Thai ID.  In other words it's not like Thai immigration is conducting a title search they just want names to match up in the various documents.  If they care to check, that is.

 

I don't think you'll have any problems.  Good luck!

Thursday was a total disaster! ????  I've now got 15 pieces of paper which should do the trick next week.

 

The IO wanted to speak to my landlord so I rang him and gave the phone to the IO.

After about 5 minutes of quite friendly chat he gave me the phone back and explained:

1. The owner of the house must provide a copy of her ID and tabien baan. The ID and tabien baan of my landlord - her brother - is not good enough.

2. The Rental Contract signed by my landlord must indicate that the landlord is acting on behalf of the owner and give her name and age.

3. The owner must provide a "Power of Attorney" document allowing my landlord to act on her behalf as landlord.

 

And there is one more wrinkle: the name in the tabien baan for the owner's house does not match her name on her ID card.... because she recently changed it! ????  So I've got another document with a big Garuda at the top and stamp at the bottom that shows her old and new names. You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[skatewash]

37 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

Thursday was a total disaster! ????  I've now got 15 pieces of paper which should do the trick next week.

 

The IO wanted to speak to my landlord so I rang him and gave the phone to the IO.

After about 5 minutes of quite friendly chat he gave me the phone back and explained:

1. The owner of the house must provide a copy of her ID and tabien baan. The ID and tabien baan of my landlord - her brother - is not good enough.

2. The Rental Contract signed by my landlord must indicate that the landlord is acting on behalf of the owner and give her name and age.

3. The owner must provide a "Power of Attorney" document allowing my landlord to act on her behalf as landlord.

 

And there is one more wrinkle: the name in the tabien baan for the owner's house does not match her name on her ID card.... because she recently changed it! ????  So I've got another document with a big Garuda at the top and stamp at the bottom that shows her old and new names. You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Oy!  Sorry to hear that.  I've learned that in Thailand the simple can be made to seem impossible and (less often) the impossible can be made to be quite simple.  It sounds like your Immigration Officer is being a stickler for all the rules.  Not that he's making up any new rules, just being very thorough ticking all the boxes and cross-checking, etc.  You might be collateral damage, not the primary target of the enforcement effort. The impetus for all this enforcement may be to get the owners registered properly as businesses where foreigners are staying, so they can be taxed correctly.

 

(The irony is that I think it's still the case that an online registration will be approved with no evidence of anything.  Bizarre.  Maybe that will change one day.  I'd be tempted to give the online route a try, but I realize that's not for everyone and there are no guarantees it would work for you.)

Well, sounds like you have all the additional documentation you need (now) and hope it all goes smoothly on your return visit.  Let us know.

I don't know if I've told this story on this thread already, but I had my Thai Driver's License stolen in Athens and when I tried to replace it at the Land Transport Office I was told that I would need to get a Thai police report on the loss of the license.  To make a long, long story short, I can paraphrase Dickens:  Thai license stolen in Athens, result misery (certified translations of Greek/English police report into Thai, certification at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, probably some sort of affidavit from the US Embassy, etc.);  Thai license lost in Thailand (no evidence needed at all), result happiness.  It took me a while, but I finally realized I had lost the driver's license in Thailand *before* it was stolen in Greece. ????

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

Well, sounds like you have all the additional documentation you need (now) and hope it all goes smoothly on your return visit.  Let us know.

I certainly will. 

[pistachios]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:23 PM, JetsetBkk said:

Thursday was a total disaster! ????  I've now got 15 pieces of paper which should do the trick next week.

 

The IO wanted to speak to my landlord so I rang him and gave the phone to the IO.

After about 5 minutes of quite friendly chat he gave me the phone back and explained:

1. The owner of the house must provide a copy of her ID and tabien baan. The ID and tabien baan of my landlord - her brother - is not good enough.

2. The Rental Contract signed by my landlord must indicate that the landlord is acting on behalf of the owner and give her name and age.

3. The owner must provide a "Power of Attorney" document allowing my landlord to act on her behalf as landlord.

 

And there is one more wrinkle: the name in the tabien baan for the owner's house does not match her name on her ID card.... because she recently changed it! ????  So I've got another document with a big Garuda at the top and stamp at the bottom that shows her old and new names. You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

 

So, have you found out what is this "Letter of Power of Attorney" document with this mystery "revenue stamp 10 baht"?

 

 

[pistachios]

Ok so if anyone else was wondering what this new requirement especially made to annoy foreigners :

 

- the power of attorney is this form http://piv-phuket.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Immigration-power-of-attorney.jpeg that the owner needs to fill up

- the stamp can be bought from the photocopy guy, down the stairs

Edited October 31, 2018 by pistachios

[JetsetBkk]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2018 at 5:31 PM, pistachios said:

 

So, have you found out what is this "Letter of Power of Attorney" document with this mystery "revenue stamp 10 baht"?

Sorry for the late reply - I'll be going again tomorrow - Thursday.

Yes, my "Power of Attorney" form says precisely that at the top, but only in Thai. It's the same as the Thai in your form, but only the first dozen or so Thai characters that stop just above the English "N" in the line below.

 

There is no English on my form at all and has two 5 baht stamps at the top right (not postage stamps, a special kind of stamp). I don't know where my landlord got them or the form from. It looks like a 10th generation copy.

 

It is similar to your form in that it has two sets of names and addresses and places for four signatures. I can't read the paragraph above the signatures as it's too faded.

 

 

[JetsetBkk]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 at 10:33 PM, JetsetBkk said:

Sorry for the late reply - I'll be going again tomorrow - Thursday.

<snip>

I didn't go after all. I'll report what happens when I do go - probably next Thursday. As the IO said last time "Do it before the next report", which is in January.

[JetsetBkk]

On Friday, October 19, 2018 at 7:23 PM, JetsetBkk said:

Thursday was a total disaster! ????  I've now got 15 pieces of paper which should do the trick next week.

 

The IO wanted to speak to my landlord so I rang him and gave the phone to the IO.

After about 5 minutes of quite friendly chat he gave me the phone back and explained:

1. The owner of the house must provide a copy of her ID and tabien baan. The ID and tabien baan of my landlord - her brother - is not good enough.

2. The Rental Contract signed by my landlord must indicate that the landlord is acting on behalf of the owner and give her name and age.

3. The owner must provide a "Power of Attorney" document allowing my landlord to act on her behalf as landlord.

 

And there is one more wrinkle: the name in the tabien baan for the owner's house does not match her name on her ID card.... because she recently changed it! ????  So I've got another document with a big Garuda at the top and stamp at the bottom that shows her old and new names. You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

Today, Thursday, was unbelievable - there's no other word for it.

 

I turned up at about 2:30. Shock no. 1: there was only one guy in the queue to see the volunteers. Shock no. 2: the place was only 1/3 full. Two weeks ago it was 3/4 full and I had to wait about 20 minutes to see a volunteer and another hour to get called to see the Immigration Officer

 

This week I saw the volunteer (a German guy) after about a minute. I said I needed to renew my Notification of Address and had the TM30 form.

 

He went through the 15 pages of documents that I was told to provide and he started saying "You don't need that, don't need this, don't need that" and gave several pages back to me!

 

So I kept the returned pages in my document case and held the remainder in my hand. I was about to sit near the front but first looked up to check the number on the display - it was mine! I guess the Immigration Officer must've seen my surprise because when I looked over to him he was laughing and beckoned me over.

 

He accepted the few documents that I had in my hand, checked my passport and made the usual comments about my extremely old TM6 card. Then he started typing away and printed off the new receipt.

 

And that was it! In and out in about 8 minutes.

 

So I now have in my possession all the documents that were not required:

The rental contract.

The ID card of the owner.

The tabien baan for owner of the house
The "Name change" document for the owner.

The tabien baan of the house I rent.

My landlord's ID card.

His tabien baan.

 

The Immigration Officer kept:

The TM30 form

The Power of Attorney form from the Owner to the Landlord

My passport copies

 

I'll keep the "unwanted" copies for next time.  ????