Trump says it looks like Saudi journalist Khashoggi is dead

[webfact]

Trump says it looks like Saudi journalist Khashoggi is dead

By Jeff Mason and Bulent Usta

 

Turkish police forensic experts with a sniffer dog examine the residence of Saudi Arabia's Consul General Mohammad al-Otaibi in Istanbul, Turkey October 17, 2018. REUTERS/Kemal Aslan

 

WASHINGTON/ISTANBUL (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Thursday he presumes journalist Jamal Khashoggi is dead and that the U.S. response to Saudi Arabia will likely be "very severe" but that he still wanted to get to the bottom of what exactly happened.

 

In Istanbul, Turkish investigators for a second time searched the Saudi consulate where Khashoggi - a U.S. resident and Washington Post columnist who was a strong critic of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - vanished on Oct. 2, seeking clues about an incident that has caused an international outcry.

 

Trump acknowledged for the first time that Khashoggi had likely been killed.

 

"It certainly looks that way to me. It's very sad," Trump told reporters before boarding Air Force One on a political trip.

 

Trump spoke hours after getting an update from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on the results of Pompeo's emergency talks in Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

 

In an interview with the New York Times on Thursday, Trump also expressed confidence in intelligence reports that suggest a high-level Saudi role in the suspected killing of Khashoggi. Trump said, however, it was still "a little bit early" to draw definitive conclusions about who may have been behind it.

 

Pompeo told reporters after his meeting that he advised Trump that Saudi Arabia should be given a few more days to complete its investigation into the Khashoggi disappearance. Turkish officials have said they believe the Saudi journalist was murdered at the consulate and his body chopped up and removed.

 

Trump said he was waiting for the results so that "we can get to the bottom of this very soon" and that he would be making a statement about it at some point.

 

Asked what would be the consequences for Saudi Arabia, Trump said: "Well, it'll have to be very severe. I mean, it's bad, bad stuff. But we'll see what happens."

 

Saudi Arabia has denied involvement in the disappearance.

 

In addition, U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin abandoned plans to attend an investor conference in Riyadh, putting the high-profile event in question.

 

The United States considers Riyadh a linchpin in efforts to contain Iran's regional influence and a key global oil source, and Trump has shown no inclination to mete out harsh punishment to the Saudis.

 

Referring to the Saudis, Pompeo said he told Trump "we ought to give them a few more days to complete" their investigation in order to get a full understanding of what happened, "at which point we can make decisions about how - or if - the United States should respond to the incident surrounding Mr. Khashoggi."

 

By casting doubt on whether the United States will respond at all, Pompeo reflected the internal struggle among Trump and his national security advisers on what to do should the Saudi leadership be blamed for what happened to Khashoggi.

 

"I think it's important for us all to remember, too - we have a long, since 1932, a long strategic relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia," Pompeo told reporters after meeting with Trump, also calling Saudi Arabia "an important counterterrorism partner."

 

A U.S. government source said that U.S. intelligence agencies are increasingly convinced of the crown prince's culpability in the operation against Khashoggi, which they believe resulted in his death.

 

Mnuchin became the latest Western official to pull out of the investment conference in Riyadh scheduled for Oct. 23-25, joining a list of international officials and business executives. Earlier on Thursday, senior government ministers from France, Britain and the Netherlands withdrew, too.

 

How Western allies deal with Riyadh will hinge on the extent to which they believe responsibility for Khashoggi's disappearance lies with Prince Mohammed and the Saudi authorities.

 

Trump, who has forged closer ties with Saudi Arabia and the 33-year-old prince, previously speculated without providing evidence that "rogue killers" could be responsible.

 

CONSULATE SEARCH

Turkish investigators left the Saudi consulate in Istanbul early on Thursday after searching the building and consular vehicles, a Reuters witness said. They used bright lights to illuminate the garden. Earlier, they spent nearly nine hours in the Saudi consul's residence along with Saudi investigators.

 

The Turkish search, which used a drone, included the roof and garage.

 

The pro-government Sabah newspaper published a series of photos of a man it identified as someone who travels with the Saudi crown prince. The time-stamped photos showed the man outside the Saudi consulate building in Istanbul on the morning Khashoggi disappeared, Sabah said.

 

Khashoggi went to the consulate seeking documents for his planned upcoming marriage and has not been seen since.

 

The incident poses a dilemma for the United States and other Western nations, which have lucrative business dealings with the authoritarian kingdom and count on it as a leading Middle East ally and opponent of their common enemy Iran. Saudi Arabia also wields significant influence as the world's top oil exporter.

 

Four Western rights groups - Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders - urged Turkey to ask the United Nations to investigate Khashoggi's disappearance.

 

"U.N. involvement is the best guarantee against a Saudi whitewash or attempts by other governments to sweep the issue under the carpet to preserve lucrative business ties with Riyadh," said Robert Mahoney, deputy executive director of the Committee to Protect Journalists.

 

French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire and British trade minister Liam Fox pulled out of the Riyadh investment summit, citing concern over Khashoggi's disappearance.

 

Dutch Finance Minister Wopka Hoekstra also scrapped plans to attend while the Dutch government cancelled a trade mission to Saudi Arabia next month.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Moscow did not have enough information about Khashoggi's disappearance to justify harming ties with Riyadh. His government will wait for details, Putin told a forum in the Black Sea resort of Sochi.

 

(Additional reporting by Ezgi Erkoyun, Umit Ozdal, Yesim Dikmen and Tuvan Gumrukcu in Istanbul, John Irish and Sudip Kar-Gupta in Paris, Bart Meijer in Amsterdam, Alistair Smout and Kylie MacLellan in London and Susan Heavey in Washington; Writing by Steve Holland, Daren Butler and Stephen Kalin; Editing by Angus MacSwan, Will Dunham and Yara Bayoumy)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-19

 

[mtls2005]

At least he left Turkey in one piece. Now, maybe not so much.

 

 

Saudi consul general in Istanbul leaves for Riyadh amid investigation into Khashoggi's disappearance

 

The Saudi Arabia's consul general in Istanbul has left Turkey for Riyadh as investigation into the fate of dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who went missing after visiting the kingdom’s consulate in Turkey’s largest city of Istanbul two week ago, widens.

 

Mohammad al-Otaibi left Turkey on a commercial flight on Tuesday, hours before his residence was expected to be searched by Turkish police in relation to the disappearance of the 59-year-old writer.

 

Earlier in the day, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said his country’s security forces would interrogate officials at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul if need be.

 

https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/10/16/577188/Saudi-consul-general-in-Istanbul-leaves-for-Riyadh-amid-investigation-into-Khashoggis-disappearance

[Briggsy]

I think the bone saw in the forensic pathologist's luggage, who just popped into the Saudi consulate along with a team of bodyguards and intelligence officers, is pretty damning.

[RichardColeman]

 

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Four Western rights groups - Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the Committee to Protect Journalists and Reporters Without Borders - urged Turkey to ask the United Nations to investigate Khashoggi's disappearance.

LOL, thought these groups always complained about Turkey abusing  human rights.

[johnnybangkok]

No Sh*t Sherlock!

Trump is finally having to admit what everyone else knows simply because the rest of the world is making him look like an idiot for trying to defend his Saudi pals. 

It'll be interesting to see what he will hit the Saudi's with on this one, but don't hold your breath that it'll be anything significant. 

He would probably just give them detention if he could get away with it. 

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

He would probably just give them detention if he could get away with it. 

 

Free stays at Trump International (DC).

 

Buy two condos, get one free. Money laundering is comped.

[Ulic]

A few more days to complete an investigation.     What is there to investigate. 2+2=4 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Ulic

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

I think the bone saw in the forensic pathologist's luggage, who just popped into the Saudi consulate along with a team of bodyguards and intelligence officers, is pretty damning.

 

Aw, c'mon, I mean who among us doesn't have a bone saw in their luggage?

 

 

[mtls2005]

13 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Aw, c'mon, I mean who among us doesn't have a bone saw in their luggage?

 

Yes, but the Saudi bone-saw is 24K gold.

 

 

[Tug]

Donald is jealous he would love to do that himself Donald won’t do anything unless forced and even then I’m sure it would be as tepid as possible 

[edwinchester]

"we ought to give them a few more days to complete their investigation in order to get a full understanding of what happened....."

 

Yeah, got to let the Saudi's and the US to get their heads together and concoct a mutually agreeable account of what happened.

[IAMHERE]

Trump and the USA should do nothing; after all they are not the World's Policeman, right?

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

In an interview with the New York Times on Thursday, Trump also expressed confidence in intelligence reports that suggest a high-level Saudi role in the suspected killing of Khashoggi. Trump said, however, it was still "a little bit early" to draw definitive conclusions about who may have been behind it.

Especially as the persons behind it has a billion dollar arms deal with the USA...

Edited October 19, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Especially as the person behind it has a billion dollar arms deal with the USA…

inconvenient facts indeed

[Opl]

32 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Trump and the USA should do nothing; after all they are not the World's Policeman, right?

And the European Union has little geopolitical interest in the region where it has been marginalized on the Syrian issue and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Pedrogaz]

There are reports that one of the 15 who went from Saudi to the consulate in Istanbul has died in a 'suspicious' car accident overnight.

 

He looks like a good scapegoat as dead men tell no lies. Look like he will be the 'rogue interrogator' that Trump said was responsible a few days back.

 

Turkey is playing an interesting role here. They are keeping the news cycle alive by drip feeding the evidence out onto the media, the Turkish media, meaning they control the news cycle and are ensuring that there is something fresh every day, thereby keeping the news cycle alive. Trump was playing for time really, hoping that the public would lose interest and they would be able to brush the whole thing under the carpet. 

MbS (Mr Bone Saw) appears to have miscalculated here. He  does however have the Saudi Consul from Istanbul under arrest (and presumably under torture) in Riyadh, the Consul having been recalled by the Saudi government (MbS). This gives him a back up scape goat if the dead man fails to quell the uproar.

Also yesterday, the UK, France and Germany pulled out of MbS's Davos in the Desert conference. They did this 4 hours before the US did, indicating that the UK aligned with the EU rather than with the US on the issue and that perhaps the US were embarrassed into it.

The other thing is that Putin is laughing himself daft. He's saying innocent until proven, as he did with Skrypal, Assad supposed chemical weapons attacks...whereas there was a rush to judgement worthy of Usain Bolt by the US, Uk and others with no evidence. The thing here is that there is plenty of evidence, including a lot of circumstantial evidence like why were the consulate staff sent home for the afternoon? Why did the 15 Saudi 'tourists' arrive in the middle of the night and leave within 24 hours....strange tourism? Why did they need to carry a bone saw? etc etc

Putin hasn't cancelled his country's trip to Saudi as he can afford to wait for any evidence to come out and make friends with the House of Saud.

[bristolboy]

39 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Trump and the USA should do nothing; after all they are not the World's Policeman, right?

I'm sure the Iranians would like that to be the case.

[Opl]

5 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

There are reports that one of the 15 who went from Saudi to the consulate in Istanbul has died in a 'suspicious' car accident overnight.

 

He looks like a good scapegoat as dead men tell no lies. Look like he will be the 'rogue interrogator' that Trump said was responsible a few days back.

 

Turkey is playing an interesting role here. They are keeping the news cycle alive by drip feeding the evidence out onto the media, the Turkish media, meaning they control the news cycle and are ensuring that there is something fresh every day, thereby keeping the news cycle alive. Trump was playing for time really, hoping that the public would lose interest and they would be able to brush the whole thing under the carpet. 

MbS (Mr Bone Saw) appears to have miscalculated here. He  does however have the Saudi Consul from Istanbul under arrest (and presumably under torture) in Riyadh, the Consul having been recalled by the Saudi government (MbS). This gives him a back up scape goat if the dead man fails to quell the uproar.

Also yesterday, the UK, France and Germany pulled out of MbS's Davos in the Desert conference. They did this 4 hours before the US did, indicating that the UK aligned with the EU rather than with the US on the issue and that perhaps the US were embarrassed into it.

The other thing is that Putin is laughing himself daft. He's saying innocent until proven, as he did with Skrypal, Assad supposed chemical weapons attacks...whereas there was a rush to judgement worthy of Usain Bolt by the US, Uk and others with no evidence. The thing here is that there is plenty of evidence, including a lot of circumstantial evidence like why were the consulate staff sent home for the afternoon? Why did the 15 Saudi 'tourists' arrive in the middle of the night and leave within 24 hours....strange tourism? Why did they need to carry a bone saw? etc etc

Putin hasn't cancelled his country's trip to Saudi as he can afford to wait for any evidence to come out and make friends with the House of Saud.

It's a Saudi DIY tutorial

 

" MbS (Mr Bone Saw)" .. hope it will stick to him 

 

+ " “My hope is that we can reach conclusions that will give us a reasonable opinion as soon as possible, because the investigation is looking into many things such as toxic materials and those materials being removed by painting them over,” Mr Erdogan told reporters in Ankara."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/mike-pompeo-lands-saudi-arabia-riyadh-set-blame-rogue-operatives/

 

[Morch]

While it is rather obvious that the Trump administration is playing for time, got to wonder to what end. Almost any concocted fairy-tale would be a very hard sale, regardless of international shoppers eager to buy.

 

Throwing some senior Saudi "rogue" officials under the bus just might have been "acceptable" if happened in a more immediate manner. Dragging things on, with more details coming out, complicated this option. The whole suspension of disbelief thing is pretty shot down by now.

 

And after hyping up MBS as being effectively in control of SA, it would be rather hard to paint a picture in which he wasn't involved or aware of things.

 

I don't know that the King wishes to chalk off MBS. This would require both a replacement, and reconfiguration of Saudi politics and internal power balance to a new order. Such moves are bound to weaken the country and the monarchy, at least for a time. And as such changes are usually accompanied by some sort of unrest (see MBS's own ascent to power), might be something the King would wish to avoid. Further, with all due respect to tradition, MBS did manage to concentrate a lot of power - and have demonstrated ruthlessness getting rid of family competition when needed. If push comes to shove - he might not be willing either, though this is a rather extreme scenario. If and when more persistent rumors start surfacing regarding potential replacement options, it might be an indication something is  up.  

 

On the international front - can't see much chances of international legal action against SA going anywhere. Similarly, major sanctions and boycotts aren't realistic, given the country's alliances and resources. Posters may harp about the US, but in effect, such interests apply all around.

 

A realistic "result" would see some sort of non-binding resolution condemning SA, perhaps some countries scaling down publicity of relations, maybe some sanctions on specific officials, and MBS (assuming he retains position) taking a step back in terms of exposure.

 

The spice must flow....

 

[Proboscis]

3 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

 

LOL, thought these groups always complained about Turkey abusing  human rights.

Well I guess it is a bit like asking help from the folks who beat their children to catch the folks who rape children. If the folks who beat kids have crucial info, you would be a fool not to if you indeed want to catch the rapists.

 

Just to spell it out to those who dont understand the use of analogy - Turkey puts its journalists in prison for breaking its overly strict laws on information, secrecy, national security that are used to protect the government from scrutiny. Saudi Arabia appears to torture and kill journalists (as in beat, then cut the fingers off the victim before beheading him, according to sources). Most of us would admit that using Turkey who is no shining example of human rights to try to stop attrocities is a worthwhile endeavour. I mean, which would you go for - jail or this kind of torture and beheading?

[bendejo]

It may be that they brought his head back as a souvenir for the boss, maybe that is what was in the bodyguard's suitcase.  Maybe "bodyguard" is a weird word to use in this case.

 

 

[Morch]

40 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

Well I guess it is a bit like asking help from the folks who beat their children to catch the folks who rape children. If the folks who beat kids have crucial info, you would be a fool not to if you indeed want to catch the rapists.

 

Just to spell it out to those who dont understand the use of analogy - Turkey puts its journalists in prison for breaking its overly strict laws on information, secrecy, national security that are used to protect the government from scrutiny. Saudi Arabia appears to torture and kill journalists (as in beat, then cut the fingers off the victim before beheading him, according to sources). Most of us would admit that using Turkey who is no shining example of human rights to try to stop attrocities is a worthwhile endeavour. I mean, which would you go for - jail or this kind of torture and beheading?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Turkey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_Turkey#Torture_after_the_2016_coup_d'état_attempt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey's_media_purge_after_the_failed_July_2016_coup_d'état

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Assassinated_Turkish_journalists

 

[727Sky]

When I read stories like this I usually put myself into the victims shoes. Man's inhumanity to man (or woman) is absolutely beyond belief at times. I have never liked the type of torture that is done by removing body parts. That IMO is just terrorism or revenge especially when their are much easier ways to make anyone cry for their mommy.

One of the MSN stories that has been presented is that Jamal Khashoggi's death was an interrogation gone bad.. If the interrogation starts out by removing someone's fingers then you can assume it is pretty much all down hill from there.

Considering these people behead women in the city square or cut off hands I suppose a few fingers are not really that big of a deal to them ?

It is said the whole event was recorded on Khashoggi's smart watch... who would have thought ? Well certainly not guys doing the deed evidently..

Full title is : Turkish police search Saudi Consul's residence after 'he was recorded telling hit squad "Do this outside; you're going to get me in trouble" as they cut off journalist's fingers at embassy'

Quote

A source claimed to have heard audio of Jamal Khashoggi's dying moments
Source said that Khashoggi was dismembered while still alive on October 2
Four men sought in connection with Khashoggi have links to Saudi Crown Prince
One of them has acted as his bodyguard during trips to the US and Europe

Consul General Mohammed al-Otaibi reportedly told the 'hit squad' accused of being flown in to murder Khashoggi, to 'do this outside or you'll get me into trouble', in audio allegedly recorded at the consulate.

Al-Otaibi fled Turkey yesterday, hours before it was reported that he can be heard on the seven minute audio Khashoggi allegedly recorded on his smartwatch of his own torture and murder.

Following revelations about the leaked audio tape on Wednesday, Turkish police were pictured returning to the Saudi consulate and carrying out searches on the Consul's private residence which had previously been left untouched by investigators.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6285357/Jamal-Khashoggi-murder-Saudi-Crown-Princes-bodyguard-murder-suspect.html

 

Now all they need to do is get rid of the Perps: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6289813/One-15-Saudis-flew-Turkey-day-Jamal-Khashoggi-disappeared-killed-car-crash.html

Whoever said the cloud for uploading was all bad..? I would bet the next time with all this exposure the smart watch is the first thing smashed or dipped in acid, maybe both !

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

There are reports that one of the 15 who went from Saudi to the consulate in Istanbul has died in a 'suspicious' car accident overnight.

 

He looks like a good scapegoat as dead men tell no lies. Look like he will be the 'rogue interrogator' that Trump said was responsible a few days back.

 

Turkey is playing an interesting role here. They are keeping the news cycle alive by drip feeding the evidence out onto the media, the Turkish media, meaning they control the news cycle and are ensuring that there is something fresh every day, thereby keeping the news cycle alive. Trump was playing for time really, hoping that the public would lose interest and they would be able to brush the whole thing under the carpet. 

MbS (Mr Bone Saw) appears to have miscalculated here. He  does however have the Saudi Consul from Istanbul under arrest (and presumably under torture) in Riyadh, the Consul having been recalled by the Saudi government (MbS). This gives him a back up scape goat if the dead man fails to quell the uproar.

Also yesterday, the UK, France and Germany pulled out of MbS's Davos in the Desert conference. They did this 4 hours before the US did, indicating that the UK aligned with the EU rather than with the US on the issue and that perhaps the US were embarrassed into it.

The other thing is that Putin is laughing himself daft. He's saying innocent until proven, as he did with Skrypal, Assad supposed chemical weapons attacks...whereas there was a rush to judgement worthy of Usain Bolt by the US, Uk and others with no evidence. The thing here is that there is plenty of evidence, including a lot of circumstantial evidence like why were the consulate staff sent home for the afternoon? Why did the 15 Saudi 'tourists' arrive in the middle of the night and leave within 24 hours....strange tourism? Why did they need to carry a bone saw? etc etc

Putin hasn't cancelled his country's trip to Saudi as he can afford to wait for any evidence to come out and make friends with the House of Saud.

The only party missing here is Iran. They have said nothing so far.

[anon537687643]

So Trump asks for “audio or video evidence if any exists “ of the murder! The Psycho in the WH doesn’t want to punish SA whatever it has done! I’m mean this Criminal Pres would likely praise The Saudis in private . World Order .. don’t rely on the US to punish Gov criminal acts !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[candide]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Aw, c'mon, I mean who among us doesn't have a bone saw in their luggage?

 

 

Those who just have a good old butcher chopper! ????

[johnnybangkok]

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Trump and the USA should do nothing; after all they are not the World's Policeman, right?

How about just common decency or has the race to the bottom got so bad that international law can be flaunted and journalists murdered on foreign soil? 

This continuing excusing of the US administration because of Trumps lack of morales has got to stop. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

5 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Aw, c'mon, I mean who among us doesn't have a bone saw in their luggage?

 

 

Those who prefer bolt-croppers.....

[Trouble]

It's really quite amazing the comments made on this forum by all the experts.  There is probably no doubt that the man is dead.  But do you really want the president and other international leaders to make statements and take action before the initial investigation is over?  Pompeo went to Saudi Arabia and Turkey and has talked to the people in each place. Turkey seems to be still investigating. Why not give everyone a little time to figure out what went on and who is culpable and then take action. I don't see England, France or Germany rushing into action so why all the sh*t over Trump.  Obviously this will be a difficult situation. He certainly doesn't want to jeopardize the arms deal which means up to 500,000 jobs but he can't go too lightly either and Saudi Arabia has been a balancing force against Iran too.  So what's the magic formula in this situation. There isn't one that's going to satisfy everyone. Maybe France, England, and Germany should make the first moves and let's see how tough they will be on the Saudis.

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Trouble said:

It's really quite amazing the comments made on this forum by all the experts.  There is probably no doubt that the man is dead.  But do you really want the president and other international leaders to make statements and take action before the initial investigation is over?  Pompeo went to Saudi Arabia and Turkey and has talked to the people in each place. Turkey seems to be still investigating. Why not give everyone a little time to figure out what went on and who is culpable and then take action. I don't see England, France or Germany rushing into action so why all the sh*t over Trump.  Obviously this will be a difficult situation. He certainly doesn't want to jeopardize the arms deal which means up to 500,000 jobs but he can't go too lightly either and Saudi Arabia has been a balancing force against Iran too.  So what's the magic formula in this situation. There isn't one that's going to satisfy everyone. Maybe France, England, and Germany should make the first moves and let's see how tough they will be on the Saudis.

 

Simply because, not England, not Germany , nor France , but your POTUS - Trump-  "  took credit for the shake up on the line of succession that hit Saudi Arabia in the summer of 2017. Trump alleged he installed Mohammed bin Salman as Saudi Arabia's crown prince ... "We've put our man on top," Trump is said to have claimed to friends."

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/1/5/weve-put-our-man-on-top-trump-on-mbs

  

Edited October 19, 2018 by Opl