Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[losworld]

49 minutes ago, sirineou said:

In additions to what MCseismic sad, If i might also add  Thai people require less money to live  in Thailand because this being their country they have some major advantages over foreigners living here,

  This is their culture  so they don't need to adjust, They are not retired so they can work, and there are many more options of what type of work they can do, they have a family network to depend on , free or low cost medical care and other Thai benefits.

IMO The amount required for a retirement extension to stay is reasonable but it is not progressive. IMO allowances should be made if one owns his/hers own home mortgage free, and or if one pays for medical insurance. This IMO opinion would be more fair and induce more people to own homes and or have medical insurance,  both  a good thing for the expat and for Thailand.

If Americans had taken the same attitude as this there would be very few if any Vietnamese, Thais etc. living the good life in the USA.  I say reciprocity is in order.

[Chongalulu]

6 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The difference between an appalling investment of 25 grand and a wonderful investment is a few hundred dollars a year.  Lets stay real here.  

So thanks for confirming economics is not your strong suit. Guess you haven’t been following the Dow Jones or NASDAQ indexes over past couple of years. Seems I’ve made an awful lot more than a few hundred dollars pro rata on my portfolio. Compound growth probably means nothing to you either...?

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Income statements will not be necessary. Only someone in immigration to sign off for you, for a hefty fee.

 

You are leaving when?

Did I say something to offend you? Does not take much. Do you honestly take exception to what I said? I am not leaving. Are you? Why do you ask?

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No word as well on the combo method without letter but the combo method stands with the letter.

Currently true, but it's possible that a combination of bank balance  three months prior to renewal plus evidence of Baht deposits monthly that combined to meet the Baht 800,000 total will work. Hopefully.

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Did I say something to offend you? Does not take much. Do you honestly take exception to what I said? I am not leaving. Are you? Why do you ask?

Yes how does someone like your self who calls just about anybody in Thai officialdom including "Biggest Joke is the most corrupt of them all," corrupt and wanting to turn Immigration into a bribery machine continue to live here?

 

Where is your self-esteem?

Edited October 27, 2018 by JLCrab

[Chongalulu]

6 hours ago, chicowoodduck said:

My strong suit is knowing how much hoop jumping I can tolerate....and I know the fine line between nourishment and punishment and when to go to Plan B......????

If only that made any sense.....

My strong suit is being able to assess that this is a long way from being settled. I predicted other embassies would be effected.....

[Jeffrey346]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

You can do it for $30 using Transferwise and might also get a slightly better exchange rate.

 

https://www.finder.com/transferwise

$25 if you open a Schwab one account (but I think you need to invest some money to do so, not sure the minimum amount)

 

https://international.schwab.com/public/international/accounts_products/accounts/brokerage_account

 

 

 

 

Looks like the minimum to open an account is $25,000. In addition, when you click on Open an Account, they transfer you to Schwab Singapore and you loose the ACH advantage.

[RCS]

1 hour ago, galt67 said:

Nails it regarding 'they (Thai Gov) want quality.'

 

Unlike 20+ years ago when TH was a 3rd world, poor country, desperate for tourists, foreign investment, etc., it has changed.

 

It's clearly MUCH wealthier (see GDP), has 5-10X more tourists, and is now becoming 'picky' about who they want here.

 

Proof? See the increased enforcement (scrutiny) of many visa regs over the past four years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you look at all the news reports about recent immigration crackdowns it is just all about getting rid of foreigners working here illegally without work permits or living off of criminal activity.  It makes sense then that they want people living here without work permits to prove they have resources to live here without doing those things.  No deep hidden agenda here that I can see.

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, Pookaow said:

The Bt800K I keep as big money in case I need it "immediately, right now, today, an emergency, etc" and for retirement extension of stay purposes.  Got tired of the embassy letter process and associated $50 a year to get it.   The money earns 1.3% right now (use to be around 2.3% until interest rates started going down) in a Krungsri Mee Tai Dai saving accounts which comes with a debit card and ibanking....can withdraw any amount of funds at any time without any interest penalties.  This current 1.3% is more than U.S. checking accounts pay, but yes, some money and savings accounts pay a little more.  And it's more than the typical 0.5% or less for a regular Thai savings account.  Plus, I don't have a fear of having the money in Thailand.

 

Hi Pib

This is an elegant solution, a few questions if I may.

Do you get a bank book?

The required bank letter, is it required on the same day as the application to Immigration?

What does it say?

Do you have the bank book updated at the same time, assuming you have one?

If no bank book what do you provide as evidence of the deposit sum and period?

Regards

Brian

- Yes, you get a passbook.

- I get my letter same day simply because a Krungsri branch is in the same building as Bangkok immigration.  Most offices want the letters to be no more than one day old I've heard as they know usually folks have to get the letter at their bank which is located somewhere else.

-  It's a very simple and short letter that just says you have an account with the bank and it currently has so much in it.  It has bank letter head and is signed and stamped by the branch.   To that you attach copies of the passbook page(s) which reflects balances covering at least the last 3 months.  It's the passbook immigration looks at to confirm you have seasoned the money for the required time.; the bank letter does not address seasoning....it's really just the bank confirming you have an account with them with so much in it....guess that lessens the change of forged passbooks being used.  So just before the season period begins and even during the seasoning period be sure to update the passbook if you don't have any deposits going in....however, since the MTD accounts pays interest monthly there will be a monthly increase on date so and so.   

-  The branch issuing the letter will update the passbook when issuing the letter.  They will require you to deposit or withdraw at least Bt100 so their system will print out an update reflecting today's date.  Usually there has to be a balance change before an update will occur on a passbook.  Note: When I used a  Bangkok Bank fixed account they could "force" an update without depositing/withdrawing some money...but apparently Krungsri don't do the forced update thing.    The cost of the Krungsri bank letter is Bt100....takes the branch about 30 minutes to generate.

 

 

 

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, blackhorse said:

It's more than a coincidence that the 2 biggest western embassies have been targeted

I don't think they alone were "targeted," but it seems so far they alone have reacted. 

 

The statement doesn't say the Royal Thai Government requires verification from Americans and Brits. 

 

 

Quote

The Royal Thai Government requires actual verification of income to certify visa applicants meet financial requirements for long-stay visas.  The U.S. government cannot provide this verification and will no longer issue the affidavits.

 

 

[RCS]

5 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Looks like the minimum to open an account is $25,000. In addition, when you click on Open an Account, they transfer you to Schwab Singapore and you loose the ACH advantage.

Did you make it clear you are a US citizen.   I opened my account 10 years ago but my account is located and administered in the US.  At that time the HK and Singapore branches were just for non-US account holders.

 

[Krataiboy]

19 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The "in the bank" method is the same, but they have definitely changed the income-method, unless they continue to accept the total of applicant's gross-income from foreign-sources (as were the basis of our income-letters) - not this new "40K/65K Baht imported every month" business.

 

There was nothing in the USA income-doc about importing the money - just total gross income.  Similarly (to my understanding) with the British letter. 

It's years since I've used income rather than a lump sum to fulfil the visa extension conditions, but from what I recall it would appear you are correct.

 

The British Embassy letter merely provided back-up for the bank statements of one year's income required in support of the visa application.

 

I gather that both the UK and US embassies have come to the same sensible conclusion - that they were providing a service which was not required under Thai Immigration rules and that it was an all-round waste of time and money. Let's just hope they are right, as immigration offices - and indeed individual officers - are notorious for interpreting rules differently

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

So thanks for confirming economics is not your strong suit. Guess you haven’t been following the Dow Jones or NASDAQ indexes over past couple of years. Seems I’ve made an awful lot more than a few hundred dollars pro rata on my portfolio. Compound growth probably means nothing to you either...?

OK.  I said the difference between a bad and good investment is peanuts.  The bank (a bad investment but no risk) will make you a hundred or so for three months.  How much will your investments make you for 25 grand in three months with no risk?  For your info the Dow just dropped 600 points and erased all the gains for the year.  Economics is my strong suit.    Apparently not yours.  The Nasdaq plunged 3.8% on the week, its worst since March. The index is on track for its steepest monthly decline since November 2008.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, p414 said:

I am English and 74 years old.I have used my pension details [truthful] to apply for my yearly visa extension.

I do not want to put 800.000 baht into a thai bank in case I need to return hurriedly to England due to ill health as it would be almost impossible to have this money returned to England.

It would not be at all impossible to send the money back to England, since it came in from abroad.

 

As it sounds your pension is at least 65K a month no need to go the 800K route.  However, if it turns out that the money has to come into a Thai bank account (not yet confirmed) then it will be  about the same thing (65*12=780K).

 

With either method you could remit money back to the UK from time to time (or every month if you prefer). Using Dee Money (convenient phone app), fee to transfer 15,000 baht is 150B.  You will loose a bit from the double currency conversions though.

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

Looks like the minimum to open an account is $25,000. In addition, when you click on Open an Account, they transfer you to Schwab Singapore and you loose the ACH advantage.

 

4 minutes ago, RCS said:

Did you make it clear you are a US citizen.   I opened my account 10 years ago but my account is located and administered in the US.  At that time the HK and Singapore branches were just for non-US account holders.

 

 

Schawb has International accounts and US accounts.  Different animals...different rules....different minimum account opening requirements...etc. 

 

Trying to open a US Schwab account online may require you to have a U.S. IP address (easy enough with a VPN) otherwise the account opening page will be redirected to Schwab's nearest office for new applications based on your IP address.

 

But if trying to open a US Schwab account you will need to have a US address for the application.  Schwab does do hard pull credit agency report on each new application.

 

 

[Jeffrey346]

18 minutes ago, RCS said:

Did you make it clear you are a US citizen.   I opened my account 10 years ago but my account is located and administered in the US.  At that time the HK and Singapore branches were just for non-US account holders.

 

No, this was done by their automated online system. I will call them next week and see what can be done.. Thanks for your help.

[Wake Up]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Well if you get next day service in Los Angeles after putting together all the docs that's fine. This is from Washington DC O-A page:

 

Processing time : (with completed documents)
In person   5 business days
By mail      minimum 15 business days

 

But it seems that the Thai Elite may be the way to go if you value your being able to live reasonably effortlessly in Thailand to be worth about US$ 3000 per year and no having to stay with the rellies (Aussie-speak)

 

While the Thai elite has benefits for sure especially if you travel Swampy. One big drawback is you cannot get a thai drivers license if you have a thai elite visa and I like to drive. You have to have an O-A Visa or work permit or extension of stay to get a thai drivers license. 

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

One big drawback is you cannot get a thai drivers license if you have a thai elite visa and I like to drive. You have to have an O-A Visa or work permit or extension of stay to get a thai drivers license. 

If I have a Thai Elite Visa will my Thai driver still be able to get a Thai driver's license?

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Perhaps there is a way forward?

Somebody needs to start a company to provide verified income letters for Foreigners.

This will of course require Thai government and Immigration approval.

 

 

Not a new idea until I retired I worked for one of the biggest engineering companies in the USA and for the final 15 years or if you wanted a employment certificate of income letter (for loans etc) you had to use something called theworknumber.com. This is because of outsourcing. The employee had to pay each time. I assume this is common as HR is just something to control costs not assist employees, they say it is for “privacy” but they won’t give out any information unless required by law enforcement and absolutely won’t answer phone calls from third parties regarding employees needs. If you want a home loan these days you have to go on loan company websites and upload all your financial details, pay stubs , last three years tax returns, and “ a dozen” more documents, and provide approval for them to access your credit checks at Credit Bureaus

 

I won’t be starting a company (due to Rule 3, “Do not start a business”) in Thailand but this is a scalable concept with a huge potential and as a service to TVF members I am willing to provide this Pearl of Wisdom.

 

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes but I'm even talking about foreign financial statements in English. At this time there is no rational reason to assume they will accept them for those doing income application without letter.

Agree with both you and Sheryl, but there have been a few posts over time of people saying an I/O asked for some proof of income in addition to the embassy letter and the applicant showed them something that was accepted. Presumably whatever was shown was in English or at least not in Thai.

 

I remember one person said his back up documents came to $50 a month more or less than the amount shown on his embassy letter and he had to go back to the embassy to get a new letter.

 

Two of my sources of income are pretty straight forward, but I would not like to try to explain documentation and reasoning behind the third. It is a valid source of income, but not that easy to explain in English to someone unfamiliar with investment income in a brokerage account.

 

 

[garyk]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

Schawb has International accounts and US accounts.  Different animals...different rules....different minimum account opening requirements...etc. 

 

Trying to open a US Schwab account online may require you to have a U.S. IP address (easy enough with a VPN) otherwise the account opening page will be redirected to Schwab's nearest office for new applications based on your IP address.

 

But if trying to open a US Schwab account you will need to have a US address for the application.  Schwab does do hard pull credit agency report on each new application.

 

 

I tried to do a Schwab account online years ago here in Thailand and failed. I even called and talked to the manager at the branch where I live in the States. I finally gave up. And I own a home in the city where I was trying to open an account.

The next time I went home I went in personally to the branch and opened an investment account with no problems what so ever. But, I had to be there in person.

Hopefully it has changed.

 

[user7969876]

To Pib

 

That explanation on how to use Krungsri Mee Tai Dai saving account for the seasoning of 8000,00 was right on the money.

I am sure others will have found it useful.

 

Thank-you

Brian

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Because they've never seen a time when it paid a middle-class wage. 

 

I know many Thais who worked construction overseas for good money (Singapore, Middle-East, etc), but would never attempt to compete with what Burmese/Cambodians will do it for in Thailand.  They are locked-out of their trade by foreign workers, so live as subsistence-farmers, instead.

 

Granted, subsistence-farmer is a more dignified existence than "homeless man" in the USA - which is how hundreds of thousands of our former construction workers exist, now.

I think you’ll find that salaries for construction workers (and other positions for migrant workers) in the UAE and Dubai wouldn’t really be considered “good money” as can be seen in these links...

 

http://www.dubaifaqs.com/salaries-dubai.php

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_workers_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

 

They appear to fall in a range of ฿5000-15,000 (depending on experience) per month which is why most of the jobs are filled by workers from countries with far lower salaries than Thailand, including India, Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

Of course, it is more than a Burmese laborer would earn in Thailand, but less than many of the low wage jobs in Thailand such as a security guard earning ฿9000 per month.

 

There have been many articles written about the labor abuse in these countries which is probably why most Thais I have known talk about dreams of working in Korea.

[offset]

Krungsri is also offering 1.85% for 18 months

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

........and while we're at it, why don't we stop all wars and cure all known diseases?

As long as “influential persons” have majority interest in such a business it should be no problem.

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, Notagain said:

I personally think the economy and banking system is in such bad shape contrary to what the current gov. claims this is just a way to shore them up by getting 800K or 400K baht from many many foreigners on the books.

 

 

The market cap for Bangkok Bank is around Baht 400,000,000,000.

 

Do you really think having a handful of farangs depositing Baht 400,000 or Baht 800,000 and drawing it down from month to month is really going to appear as more than a rounding error. 

 

 

 

 

[Longcut]

22 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Agreed. Many millionaires in Chaing Mai and Pattaya. Old scousers with 2m baht to their names.

 

We could all leave tomorrow and the economy wouldnt budge a cm. Besides, if it's a national imperative who cares?

 

No matter how bad YOU perceive the policy. Perhaps even it's empirically bad financially - it may still have sound other reasons and objectives.

 

I'll get your hat...

They said the same thing after the base closures in 1975. Everyone said Thailand wouldn't survive the U.S. military leaving by the thousands. I remember the Thais that worked on the base I was at, were in full panic mode.

 Well, Thailand survived and will survive this too. The money they would lose now doesn't compare to the hundreds of millions back then. Sorry, but we are small potatoes.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

One big drawback is you cannot get a thai drivers license if you have a thai elite visa and I like to drive.

You can get a Thai drivers licence with a Thai Elite visa but it may only be issued for 2 years. People get them all the time with tourist visas.

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

 

Schawb has International accounts and US accounts.  Different animals...different rules....different minimum account opening requirements...etc. 

 

Trying to open a US Schwab account online may require you to have a U.S. IP address (easy enough with a VPN) otherwise the account opening page will be redirected to Schwab's nearest office for new applications based on your IP address.

 

But if trying to open a US Schwab account you will need to have a US address for the application.  Schwab does do hard pull credit agency report on each new application.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how it would work online but there is a matter of verifying one's signature.

 

[garyk]

1 hour ago, RCS said:

If you look at all the news reports about recent immigration crackdowns it is just all about getting rid of foreigners working here illegally without work permits or living off of criminal activity.  It makes sense then that they want people living here without work permits to prove they have resources to live here without doing those things.  No deep hidden agenda here that I can see.

The hidden agenda as it stands is you need 800K in a Thai bank as the only proof? 

Kinda convenient IMO for the Thai banking community. If that is the only way to prove income.

Let's look at the recient criminals. How many older Americans and older British citizens have been rounded up in this crack down?

IMO it is a joke to the Nth degree and has $ signs written all over it. Especially when proving you have 65K / mo. coming into a foreign account to support yourself is exempt from the visa approval process.

 

My opinion only, and no offense what so ever intended.