Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JLCrab]

I don't know what is rigmarole. If I choose to go the Thailand Elite route as opposed to the 800K baht retirement extension or the O-A visa route and choose for my own reasons to do the 500K 5 year instead of the 1 million 20 year I have my own reasons for doing so. I am not suggesting to anyone else what to do. I would really like to do the O-A but 6 weeks in the USA to comfortably get it done is a big problem when I have no place to stay for most of that time other than hotels and with a rental car.

 

But assuming my next (last) one year affidavit-based extension goes through OK I will have most of the next year to figure out what to do next.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I am on Page 40 and in the time itakes to read one page the thread has expanded a further 3 pages.

 

Any chance a mod could summarise  ( perhaps every 20 pages ) what has gone before and what is known as fact.

FACTS.

1. Immigration policy regarding proof of income has not changed. They want to see a letter/affidavit from the applicants embassy.
2. Immigration have asked embassies to validate the income claimed by the applicant and -- so far -- the British and USA embassies have refused to comply with immigrations request; and they are stopping the issue of their existing letter/affidavit.
3. As it stands, Brits and Americans will not be able to use the income or combination method without a letter/affidavit when applying for an extension of stay.

[boshidoson]

Many interesting comments here on this development. Here is my story.

 

Years ago I transferred money into my Thai bank to meet the immigration requirements for my extension's of stay. I used this method for several years. In 2013 I tried to repatriate some of the excess money I had here. The bank stated they could not send any money out because I had no work permit. They refused even after I showed them the receipts of the transactions into Thailand.

 

In my experience, the money they are requiring to be kept in Thai banks will not be easily repatriated, if needed.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, boshidoson said:

Many interesting comments here on this development. Here is my story.

 

Years ago I transferred money into my Thai bank to meet the immigration requirements for my extension's of stay. I used this method for several years. In 2013 I tried to repatriate some of the excess money I had here. The bank stated they could not send any money out because I had no work permit. They refused even after I showed them the receipts of the transactions into Thailand.

 

In my experience, the money they are requiring to be kept in Thai banks will not be easily repatriated, if needed.

If you have online banking, I see no reason why the money can't be transferred to a bank out of Thailand.

[galt67]

21 minutes ago, david555 said:

With the 800K you can do what you wish for 9 month' call it a small fin. buffer …., the elite visa money is …..gone in a flash moment , no return at all

we have different opinion , but I think if 800K available you would do...(best choice )

August last 5 minutes at desk after 15 min waiting and morning first customer at KK bank an 200 baht for letter …..a dream scenario for 1 year visa 

And next day my stamped passport and …..I am rich again ???? I can start use my 800 K ,... but you can put an Elite visa in a nice frame on the wall that is also nice to look where your money is   

9

For myself, the Elite Visa requires 'no framing.'

 

I have the priceless, piece of mind, ZERO hassles (contact) with TI for the next 20 years.

 

Clearly, we have different 'values' and priorities. 

 

[david555]

1 minute ago, boshidoson said:

Many interesting comments here on this development. Here is my story.

 

Years ago I transferred money into my Thai bank to meet the immigration requirements for my extension's of stay. I used this method for several years. In 2013 I tried to repatriate some of the excess money I had here. The bank stated they could not send any money out because I had no work permit. They refused even after I showed them the receipts of the transactions into Thailand.

 

In my experience, the money they are requiring to be kept in Thai banks will not be easily repatriated, if needed.

True , but seems if you can prove how brought in it could be possible ,by some posters. BUT you can always take cash up to 20 000 us dollar value in any foreign currency out , and my KK debit card works on my E.U. country ATM.... so ….

Even one prepaid card from E.U. I load with KK bank account , and ...withdraw from the prepaid to my Country bank ….always way's around possible 

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, boshidoson said:

Many interesting comments here on this development. Here is my story.

 

Years ago I transferred money into my Thai bank to meet the immigration requirements for my extension's of stay. I used this method for several years. In 2013 I tried to repatriate some of the excess money I had here. The bank stated they could not send any money out because I had no work permit. They refused even after I showed them the receipts of the transactions into Thailand.

 

In my experience, the money they are requiring to be kept in Thai banks will not be easily repatriated, if needed.

Hmm.

If one is that worried what about going in 4 or 5 times and just taking the cash out?

I have taken out as much as 8,000 US dollars from my Bangkok Bank account and they wanted my ID, passport, etc., but no problem getting the cash.

[galt67]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

True , but seems if you can prove how brought in it could be possible ,by some posters. BUT you can always take cash up to 20 000 us dollar value in any foreign currency out , and my KK debit card works on my E.U. country ATM.... so ….

Even one prepaid card from E.U. I load with KK bank account , and ...withdraw from the prepaid to my Country bank ….always way's around possible 

5

Against the law in the USA to bring in more than $10k (of any currency) without 'declaring' it to US Customs.

 

Anyone with experience 'declaring' money while entering the US?

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, galt67 said:

For myself, the Elite Visa requires 'no framing.'

 

I have the priceless, piece of mind, ZERO hassles (contact) with TI for the next 20 years.

 

Clearly, we have different 'values' and priorities. 

 

It is a "Thai government program".

Lot's can change over 20 years.....

I know some Thais that work for the government in Bangkok and they laugh about that Visa saying they would never do or recommend it.

But, good you have piece of mind hope all is good for 20 years.

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I don't know what is rigmarole. If I choose to go the Thailand Elite route as opposed to the 800K baht retirement extension or the O-A visa route and choose for my own reasons to do the 500K 5 year instead of the 1 million 20 year I have my own reasons for doing so. I am not suggesting to anyone else what to do. I would really like to do the O-A but 6 weeks in the USA to comfortably get it done is a big problem when I have no place to stay for most of that time other than hotels and with a rental car.

 

But assuming my next (last) one year affidavit-based extension goes through OK I will have most of the next year to figure out what to do next.

You were implying that the 800,000 was not yours because it was in the bank for an extension.  That would mean any bills you had negated the ownership of any monies in any bank. 

[david555]

1 minute ago, galt67 said:

Against the law in the USA to bring in more than $10k (of any currency) without 'declaring' it to US Customs.

 

Anyone with experience 'declaring' money while entering the US?

So it is legally possible or not ?   Or is their a problem with the color of that money….

So not a Thai side problem this one ...????

 

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Against the law in the USA to bring in more than $10k (of any currency) without 'declaring' it to US Customs.

 

Anyone with experience 'declaring' money while entering the US?

You declare it and explain the situation.

Edited October 28, 2018 by bkk6060

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

If you have online banking, I see no reason why the money can't be transferred to a bank out of Thailand.

Because online banking of Thai banks for (most?) retirees does not allow overseas transfer.

Transfer to US, EU, etc. has to be made at the bank and required proof of origin of money (from abroad, condo sale, ...)

[galt67]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You declare it and explain the situation.

Personally, I would be VERY wary of having to explain to US Customs 'why' I was entering with $10k+USD.

 

For ME, I would carry over funds (if necessary) BELOW the $10k threshold thus 'no declaration' required.

[gaviny]

Against the law in the USA to bring in more than $10k (of any currency) without 'declaring' it to US Customs.
 
Anyone with experience 'declaring' money while entering the US?

In Oz you can bring in cash as long as you declare it over a certain limit .

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Thai Immigration ultimately ends up with only allowing the Bt800K/400K in a Thai bank option or a monthly transfer of Bt65K/40K option into a Thai bank, for those individuals who can't swing the large deposit option and must go with the monthly transfer option but don't actually spend anything close to Bt65K/40K per month and don't like maintaining a large sum in Thailand then they are going to have to seriously rotating money in and out of Thailand.

 

why go through all that hassle- when one can control their spending by using a US Debit card and bring  exactly the amount of money into Thailand. If Thai Imm wants it in a Thai bank- deposit 65K peer month and then next month etc. The only fee would be 220 Baht and many banks refund the other fees.  In addition- the current police order  does not mandate the money has to be transferred to a Thai bank.

Others I know bring money in via travelers checks. Others bring cash and declare it. Then deposit it as needed or don't.  Thai imm can change the Police Order if they wish- but my instincts tell me they won't for awhile- they will want a period of transition as well.

[ukrules]

14 minutes ago, galt67 said:

For myself, the Elite Visa requires 'no framing.'

 

I have the priceless, piece of mind, ZERO hassles (contact) with TI for the next 20 years.

 

Clearly, we have different 'values' and priorities. 

 

When my current 5 year membership expires I'm going to renew it for the new cheaper per year 20 year version, so maybe next year or the year after depending on whether I can squeeze another full year out of them by travelling abroad next March / April.

 

You're right about the 800k, you can never really spend it, if you do then it needs replacing before the 9 months are up so you might as well just leave it there forever and then jump through hoops every year like a performing seal or just add 200k, get the Elite visa and be done with it for 20 years.

 

In 10 years time paying that fee will be a mere distant memory, never mind in 20 years.

 

I'll bet that way before that 20 year membership expires the 800k amount changes to something much larger, of course having the 20 year membership means that nothing will change.

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Where did Thai immigration say you could use the 65,000 pension fund income without a letter from the embassy?

There is nothing in the current police orders (2014) that specifies it must be a letter from the embassy but, as a general rule, that's the only proof immigration will accept. But based on their own written/published rules they could waive the embassy letter.

1. Application form

2. Copy of applicant’s passport

3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or

4. Funds deposit certificate issued by a bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook

5. Only in the case of Criterion (6), the applicant must submit documents equivalent to Clauses 1-4 stated above.

 

The first time I applied for an extension of stay based on marriage I went armed with UK bank statements showing transfers to Thailand over several years, my Thai bank statements showing receipt of the transfers from the UK account, and an updated passbook. The transfers were monthly and far exceeded the 40K minimum required. They couldn't of had better proof of income, but they refused the application and insisted I get a letter from my embassy, or used the bank deposit method.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Because online banking of Thai banks for (most?) retirees does not allow overseas transfer.

Transfer to US, EU, etc. has to be made at the bank and required proof of origin of money (from abroad, condo sale, ...)

 Well, if the money has come from an overseas source, what's the problem? If it's been earned in Thailand might be a different story.

[david555]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

When my current 5 year membership expires I'm going to renew it for the new cheaper per year 20 year version, so maybe next year or the year after depending on whether I can squeeze another full year out of them by travelling abroad next March / April.

 

You're right about the 800k, you can never really spend it, if you do then it needs replacing before the 9 months are up so you might as well just leave it there forever and then jump through hoops every year like a performing seal or just add 200k, get the Elite visa and be done with it for 20 years.

 

In 10 years time paying that fee will be a mere distant memory, never mind in 20 years.

 

I'll bet that way before that 20 year membership expires the 800k amount changes to something much larger, of course having the 20 year membership means that nothing will change.

may I suggest you are younger than 50 ? as that could be the real reason for the elite visa 

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

 Well, if the money has come from an overseas source, what's the problem? 

Again, the problem is "online banking", but no problem if you do it at the bank.

[galt67]

3 minutes ago, ukrules said:

When my current 5 year membership expires I'm going to renew it for the new cheaper per year 20 year version, so maybe next year or the year after depending on whether I can squeeze another full year out of them by travelling abroad next March / April.

 

You're right about the 800k, you can never really spend it, if you do then it needs replacing before the 9 months are up so you might as well just leave it there forever and then jump through hoops every year like a performing seal or just add 200k, get the Elite visa and be done with it for 20 years.

 

In 10 years time paying that fee will be a mere distant memory, never mind in 20 years.

 

I'll bet that way before that 20 year membership expires the 800k amount changes to something much larger, of course having the 20 year membership means that nothing will change.

5

Agreed.

 

The current requirements for the bank deposit and income method have not changed for 20(?) years.

 

Upping them to 1M/Bht (deposit) and 80k monthly income would not be surprising to me.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 Well, if the money has come from an overseas source, what's the problem? If it's been earned in Thailand might be a different story.

The online transfer you go make gives the system no chance to control everything automatic I guess , hence why must do in person at bank branch

[ukrules]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

may I suggest you are younger than 50 ? as that could be the real reason for the elite visa 

I'm slightly younger than 50 right now, a 5 year membership will put me into my low 50's, a 20 year membership will take me through to my mid 60's.

 

I just wish the 20 years for 1 million Baht option was around 4 years ago when I originally signed up, I would have taken it. Back then it was 2 million for 20 years which was no bargain at all, just the same yearly price multiplied by 20 so I didn't bother.

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by ukrules

[galt67]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

may I suggest you are younger than 50 ? as that could be the real reason for the elite visa 

1

Not sure about the person's age you're replying too BUT myself and an Aussie friend are both 50+ y/o.

 

And both have TEs.

 

 

 

 

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, galt67 said:

The current requirements for the bank deposit and income method have not changed for 20(?) years.

Upping them to 1M/Bht (deposit) and 80k monthly income would not be surprising to me.

Should not be a problem for those living here. For previous increases, Thai Immigration has always "grandfathered" those who were on previous conditions/amounts. No reason it will be different next time.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

marriage I went armed with UK bank statements showing transfers to Thailand over several years, my Thai bank statements showing receipt of the transfers from the UK account, and an updated passbook. The transfers were monthly and far exceeded the 40K minimum required. They couldn't of had better proof of income, but they refused the application and insisted I get a letter from my embassy, or used the bank deposit method

Correct= but I have always brought the added proof- only asked for it once.  However- the Embassy letter was not always available- I did a marriage extension in 1995  but can't member what evidence I brought-  possibly a General Affidavit where I wrote in the evidence and the Embassy notarized it. Let's all hope the transition goes smoothly and  Thai Imm understands we would be happy to bring an Embassy Letter if they would give us one!

[david555]

6 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Agreed.

 

The current requirements for the bank deposit and income method have not changed for 20(?) years.

 

Upping them to 1M/Bht (deposit) and 80k monthly income would not be surprising to me.

Lucky Thailand has always respected the " grandfathering " rule if continuous ext.Ret. is followed …..up to now ….but who knows what future brings..., maybe cancelling elite visa …????….(let's be funny from my side ..???? )

Edited October 28, 2018 by david555

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

12 minutes ago, galt67 said:

The current requirements for the bank deposit and income method have not changed for 20(?) years.

Upping them to 1M/Bht (deposit) and 80k monthly income would not be surprising to me.

Should not be a problem for those living here. For previous increases, Thai Immigration has always "grandfathered" those who were on previous conditions/amounts. No reason it will be different next time.

As far as I know that has only happen once, and not everyone with an existing extension automatically qualifies. 'Grandfathering' is dependant on age and how long you'd been in the country.

 

Grandfathering is not something everyone can rely on.

[david555]

Just now, elviajero said:

As far as I know that has only happen once, and not everyone with an existing extension automatically qualifies. 'Grandfathering' is dependant on age and how long you'd been in the country.

 

Grandfathering is not something everyone can rely on.

Twice , some very old need only 200 K the other later 500K