Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[balo]

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.
You just need to be 50 yo to get it.
Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

And I am one of those not on a pension As a freelancer my income varies from month to month. Some months I get 100k baht , other months as low as 30k. I could transfer 800k from my foreign bank account but I don't want to keep the money in Thailand.

[CharlieH]

Reported off topic post removed

[bkk6060]

12 minutes ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.
You just need to be 50 yo to get it.
Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

And I am one of those not on a pension As a freelancer my income varies from month to month. Some months I get 100k baht , other months as low as 30k. I could transfer 800k from my foreign bank account but I don't want to keep the money in Thailand.

Why?  You afraid they will steal your money?

 

You may want to investigate finding another place to live as my opinion is exactly they want your money here.

I think the income qualification will go away...

[galt67]

43 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes.

Don´t put all your eggs in one basket which would be the government run/regulated TE Visa.

Exactly thanks...

 

 

As a TE holder, this makes more confident in it.

 

Further, as I posted in another thread regarding TE:

 

1) Has now been available 15 years

2) Sales (October, 17-July, 18) were 790 million/B an increase of 66.35% compared to last year same period as reflected in 1,310 new members (Net profit, 239 million/B)

3) Total members, as of 31/July/2018 are 6,192

4)Top 10 resident countries of members: China, UK, Japan, US, France, Australia, Bangladesh, Russia, Germany, and Switzerland.

 

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

Only 2 Embassies?

But those two represent the majority of western expats living here.

Why limiting to western expats ?

Expats from China, Japan & India also use these same methods,

and so sometimes an Embassy Letter to stay here,

and they are many more than expats of UK & USA.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Pattaya46

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, galt67 said:

) Total members, as of 31/July/2018 are 6,192

4)Top 10 resident countries of members: China, UK, Japan, US, France, Australia, Bangladesh, Russia, Germany, and Switzerland.

Of course it will remain valid- It's a commercial venture and I am sure the monies go to various places; just like using an agent is a commercial venture

[jmd8800]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Why?  You afraid they will steal your money?

 

You may want to investigate finding another place to live as my opinion is exactly they want your money here.

I think the income qualification will go away...

I agree the income qualification option will go away in time. This is a LOT of work determining validity of someone's claims when they can simply say put your money in the bank and be done with it.

[elviajero]

53 minutes ago, balo said:

7 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Many people on "Retirement Extension" are not yet retired and don't have any kind of pension.
You just need to be 50 yo to get it.
Even among retirees, many don't have pension, just a big asset.

And I am one of those not on a pension As a freelancer my income varies from month to month. Some months I get 100k baht , other months as low as 30k. I could transfer 800k from my foreign bank account but I don't want to keep the money in Thailand.

Retirement extensions are meant for people that don't work (retired). There's a clue in the name.

 

I understand some people don't want to keep money in Thailand, but that's a choice. If you -- can't/don't want to -- meet the criteria you can't get the extension.

 

Sounds like, if you're over 50, you'd be best off with Non 'O-A' (long stay) visa.

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Dee money only has offices in Bangkok which makes it a no go for most people in Thailand

Pattaya isn't far away - and those two, combined, cover a lot of the expat-population.  For the rest, domestic-flights are cheap.  And depending on how the rules change, their franchise could expand rapidly soon - I would expect new branches in Patts, CM, and Phuket.  Based on a standard of "monthly" or "average," and the foreigner's pool of cash to rotate, the cash-remittances could be only a few per year.

 

This change would be a PITA for honest folks who really had the "gross-income" they reported, who may now have to show 100% of the minimum-amount "imported," instead.  But, it would be a bonanza for those who didn't have that income at all, and who weren't willing to risk felony-charges to fake it.  That "swear an oath" bit was the finger in the dike.  Imagine if all that was needed in the future was an income sufficient to live here, plus some savings to rotate in and out. 

 

Maybe the authorities are becoming more foreigner-friendly, after all. ????  Somehow, I doubt it, and I think the embassies are feeding us "hopium" with this "just show deposits" claim.  But it would make economic sense to open things up, given the lowered income-expectations of most new and future Western retirees.

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Retirement extensions are meant for people that don't work (retired). There's a clue in the name.

 

I understand some people don't want to keep money in Thailand, but that's a choice. If you -- can't/don't want to -- meet the criteria you can't get the extension.

 

Sounds like, if you're over 50, you'd be best off with Non 'O-A' (long stay) visa.

But the extension for this would be exactly the same as the Non-O Visa or are you saying they should be made to go back to their home country every 2 years to get a new Non-OA?

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

And maybe for at least the remaining 10% -

 

You put your money in
You take your money out
You put your money in
And you shake it all about
You do the hokey pokey
Turn money all around
That's what it's all about

Here's an idea... (Not targeted at you JL but a different take on the Money IN/OUT hokey pokey).

 

1. Find a mate who is using the 800K in the bank method & bringing in cash from outside Thailand to use for spends 
2. Get him to transfer the cash to your account instead of his
3. Give him the Thai Baht
4. Buy him a beer ???? 

 

 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

riendly, after all. ????  Somehow, I doubt it, and I think the embassies are feeding us "hopium" with this "just show deposits" claim.  But it would make economic sense to open things up, given the lowered income-expectations of most new and future Western retirees.

I believe what you say is correct- I would have never considered an agent before this whole thing and I have always had the income and never lied.  However, if I am going to be hassled by Thai Imm over  issue after issue- waiting in long lines- maybe paying someone is the answer.   I was up at Jomtien to do a TM 30- a month ago-  Big lines-utter chaos.  Who needs it.

[Ebumbu]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Dee money only has offices in Bangkok which makes it a no go for most people in Thailand

 

Send with mobile app. I don't know if I am allowed to post links. There is a Youtube video showing how to send money with DeeMoney Mobile App. And it's on their site. "In person" is an option, but not a requirement. 

[bkk6060]

17 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

   I was up at Jomtien to do a TM 30- a month ago-  Big lines-utter chaos.  Who needs it.

Really?

I have been going there for years just for info., it is the best office in the country for a populated area.

I always get fast and efficient service there. Never spent more then an hour there for any service.  My last 90 day took 3 minutes.

Read the Chiang Mai forum if you want to hear about a nightmare.

Jomtien is pretty good never seen any ¨chaos¨ what so ever....

Edited October 30, 2018 by bkk6060

[Thaidream]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

riendly, after all. ????  Somehow, I doubt it, and I think the embassies are feeding us "hopium" with this "just show deposits" claim.  But it would make economic sense to open things up, given the lowered income-expectations of most new and future Western retirees.

I.m not even sure  the BE or Us Embassy even understand how it all works or have even read the Immigration Act or the Police Order-One of the Brits filed an Freedom of Information Act request- will be interested to see what transpired.   Maybe it doesn't matter but  I believe the UK and US took the easy way out and just said the hell with it..

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Ebumbu said:

 

Send with mobile app. I don't know if I am allowed to post links. There is a Youtube video showing how to send money with DeeMoney Mobile App. And it's on their site. "In person" is an option, but not a requirement. 

It is a requirement.  I actually read the site before I posted.  

[Sheryl]

If immigration want to see the money going into a Thai bank it would mean transfering at least 65k or 40k baht into the country from your bank in the US.

A problem for those relying on dividends as those are usually paid quarterly not monthly.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Send with mobile app. I don't know if I am allowed to post links. There is a Youtube video showing how to send money with DeeMoney Mobile App. And it's on their site. "In person" is an option, but not a requirement. 

But you must first open a DeeMoney account "in person" at one of their current branches before you can start using their app to transfer money.   So, for now and until DeeMoney possibly expands to other locations a person needs to go visit one of their locations in Bangkok to get the ball rolling....to do a transfer at one of their branches and/or register so you can start using their app to transfer money.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Pib

[Sheryl]

I was doing a search on the SSA website trying find out about setting it up when approved for Thailand.
I came across this bit of interesting info on this page. https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/GIS/data/Reports/ALLCTRYWEB.htm


 
I assume the 6,775 done are via Bangkok Bank in New York. 

There is another site which lists countries which can currently receive SS IDD a fairly long list but Thailand not yet on it.

One wonders what the transfer fee will be when it is...

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

There is another site which lists countries which can currently receive SS IDD a fairly long list but Thailand not yet on it.
One wonders what the transfer fee will be when it is...

There is a list of the countries eligible for IDD on the same webpage. It is dated September of this year so it may be more up to date than other lists.

[Sheryl]

In both cases they appear to be throw away comments, The BE says (in other statements) that you have "always" been able to present bank statements, we all know that was never the case, and as he US site says.
 
"Applicants should refer to the above-referenced (immigration) websites for specifics regarding the timing and conditions associated with these deposits."
 
Until immigration says how and when, its just passing the buck.
 

Exactly. This is what makes me think their discussions were with people not really familiar with the nuts and bolts of current IO practices for extensions. And what makes me worry that the need for new guidance to be issued to IOs nationwide may not be recognized.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Retirement extensions are meant for people that don't work (retired). There's a clue in the name.
 
I understand some people don't want to keep money in Thailand, but that's a choice. If you -- can't/don't want to -- meet the criteria you can't get the extension.
 
Sounds like, if you're over 50, you'd be best off with Non 'O-A' (long stay) visa.

Only good for one year plus one on reentry. To stay indefinitely people usually use retirement extensions.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

problem for those relying on dividends as those are usually paid quarterly not monthly.

One can take cash and place it monthly in a Thai bank if that is the issue- use it for expenses and then do the same in subsequent months.  You can get the cash from a Thai ATM machine which shows it  is foreign sourced.  You could bring it in with Travelers checks- purchased in Singapore and cashed in Thailand- foreign sourced. You bring in  $10,000 in cash or any amount declare it at customs as foreign sourced.  However, at present the only requirement is to show foreign sourced income when one is changing from an Exempt Entry/Tourist Visa to a Non O at Thai Imm and then after that no requirement.

 

Question after Question-  no answers...Does any really believe the BE or Us Embassy have discussed all these issues with Thai Imm- I don't and I don't even think they know the questions to ask.

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There is another site which lists countries which can currently receive SS IDD a fairly long list but Thailand not yet on it.

One wonders what the transfer fee will be when it is...

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Will have to wait and see.  Of course no fee by the SSA when they transmit via IDD but the receiving bank can still apply a receiving fee....kinda like how Bangkok Bank currently applies a receiving fee for incoming international transfers to include US govt payments.   This receiving fee is applied before posting to your account and does not appear anywhere on your passbook/ibanking so it fools a lot of people into thinking no fee was applied but it was....that one reason some people using their personal math can never get their calculated exchange rate for a posting date to match any exchange rate posted by the bank for that posting date.  I figure the worst case would be the current international transfer receiving fee that most Thai banks apply of 0.25% (Bt 200 min, Bt500 max).

 

From looking at posts on other websites talking IDD use by Philippines banks most/all of them apply a small receiving fee.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Pib

[Mike Teavee]

13 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A problem for those relying on dividends as those are usually paid quarterly not monthly.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Not really a problem, just divide the dividend by the number of months it covers & send that.

 

E.g. 1 of my Stocks pays the Final in May and the Interim in September so if I had to show monthly income, I would divide May's by 4 & send equal amounts in May, Jun, Jul, Aug, then divide Septembers by 8 & send equal amounts in Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, result being 12x Dividend payments ????

 

 

Pain in the backside & an expensive way of getting the total over, but if needs must then it's not difficult to do.

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Ebumbu]

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

It is a requirement.  I actually read the site before I posted.  

 

No, it's not. See screenshots of FAQ videos. Send money with mobile app. Life is good. 

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

But the extension for this would be exactly the same as the Non-O Visa or are you saying they should be made to go back to their home country every 2 years to get a new Non-OA?

Yes. Returning to their home country every 2 years is an option for those that don't want to put 800K in a Thai bank or can't provide proof of income.

[DogNo1]

When I was a recruit in the US Army, my drill instructor, whom I remember well, had a colorful phrase that he used when he chided us not to assume anything.  So I don't. I will follow any newly issued instructions from the Thai government regarding the proof of retirement income amounting to the equivalent of 65,000 baht or more per month; however, in the absence of new instructions, Immigration cannot reasonably expect me to present an affidavit of income, nor to have had 800,000 in a Thai bank for three months nor to have 65,000 per month deposited in a Thai bank after January 1, 2019.  It seems likely that immigration will continue to accept the same proof of income that they have been accepting all along and that is, in my case, evidence of the required amount being deposited into my foreign checking account on a monthly basis.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Yes. Returning to their home country every 2 years is an option for those that don't want to put 800K in a Thai bank or can't provide proof of income.

Sorry, I misread your post, I read it as you were saying people who are > 50 but are not retired shouldn't get the Non-O but should get a Non-OA instead.

 

But the Non-OA is a very good option for people who don't want to put the 800k in an account & cannot prove the income.

 

[Pib]

Talking Direct Deposit of US govt payments to Philippines banks, basically the same restrictions apply as Bangkok Bank currently applies.  For example, below is a cut and paste from the Philippines National Bank (PNB) which is one of the largest banks in the Philippines.

 

https://www.pnb.com.ph/index.php/personal-banking/deposit-accounts/direct-deposit-program.html