Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[mrwebb8825]

The letter was a 1 day a year inconvience that was the lesser of 2 "evils" for me. My money comes in and is deposited into 2 different banksfrom 2 different sources started at 2 different times in my life here. The embassy was a van ride, BTS ride and a short walk then reversed to come home. Going to 2 different banks is going to entail a LOT more effort/money and room for error resulting in a LOT more effort/money.

@Ubonjoe-I'm in the same boat as you as far as timing is concerened with my current extention expiring in early Sept.  meaning I need to apply again in early Aug. so the 6 month validity of an affidaviate doesn't quite work. Even IF they let me apply 2 months early within the 6 month validity period it could still get kicked as everything from my area gets sent to Bangkok for secondary approval which takes 3-6 weeks round trip. If they didn't get to my packet until the 3rd week of Aug. the letter would then be 6 month and 3 weeks old.

Sure hope they get new aternative, acceptable requirements in place soon.

[Pib]

Yee...haa....and after numerous Aussies had contact their OZ embassy asking if there was any pending change and the answer was No....no change planned.  Embassies will simply lie to you.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And the new rule in the Australian Embassy announcement linked above, re the monthly income issue, seems to be an AVERAGE of 40K or 60K per month deposited into a Thai bank account.

 

No mention of anything about relying on foreign government, military or other income and pension statements regarding income NOT being put into a Thai bank account. But again, none of this is showing any direct comment or confirmation from Immigration.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Thaidream]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yee...haa....and after numerous Aussies had contact their OZ embassy asking if there was any pending change and the answer was No....no change planned.  Embassies will simply lie to you.

Yep- and I thought the Aussies had heard  Thai imm and said we will still issue the letter and you (Thai Imm) can do what you want.  Although not Australian- I was hoping they would hold the line- making  the UK and US as the odd ones out.  Another one bites the dust.... 

[marcusarelus]

43 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, assuming your monthly SS direct deposit is $1600, and the baht is 32, you'll need only 166000 baht on deposit for 3 months for the combo method (although I'd probably round up to 200k to cover fx eventualities). Easy for the IO to determine with just your passbook. Doubt he'd be interested in your SS annual letter 'cause as far as he knows that money is still in the States -- and from what was told the British and US embassies, they're now (or soon) only interested in seeing money here.

My phone transfer sms shows Social Security Admin and my account number and the amount in both baht and dollars and from abroad and time of transfer.  IO would have no trouble reading it. 

[marcusarelus]

32 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And now Australia joins the party. Welcome mates! 

 

 

 

Don't you think they should have their very own thread for complaints about the Aussie embassy?

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't you think they should have their very own thread for complaints about the Aussie embassy?

They have. https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1066282-australia-joins-the-uk-and-usa-with-withdrawal-of-income-verification/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-13521663

Edited November 2, 2018 by giddyup

[Thaidream]

27 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

No mention of anything about relying on foreign government, military or other income and pension statements regarding income NOT being put into a Thai bank account. But again, none of this is showing any direct comment or confirmation from Immigration.

Same general info that both the UK/US put out- keeping it as vague as possible.  It's almost as if the Embassies got together on this and came up wit the same method- just different dates- I would love to know what was said-exactly- and by who in the May 2018  meeting.

[Pib]

In my opinion when the dust settles on this which is when "HQ Thai immigration" hopefully provides updated guidance on the "monthly income option" my money is on the bet that it will indeed require an average monthly international deposit into your Thai bank....repeat, into your Thai bank account....not your bank account outside of Thailand.  Summary: monthly international deposit of 65K to your Thai bank account if using the monthly income method.

 

And accepted proof will be a bank letter with passbook/statement confirming the monthly international transfers.  This proof method is similar to the 800/400K large deposit in a Thai bank method (i.e., relies on the Thai bank versus a foreign financial company/bank) and is easy for an immigration officer to review & verify.   If feeling the provided Thai bank docs are fake the immigration office can easily/quickly contact the issuing Thai bank to confirm the docs.   It's following the KISS principle. 

 

If the docs are identified/suspected as fake during the extension renewal the renewal is disapproved.  If the the extension is approved but say a little later (a few days, week or months) later they do a verification check with the Thai bank that issued the docs and the docs are found to be fake your extension is cancelled, you are given 7 days to depart the country, and possibly even an reentry/reapplication ban of X-years depending on the situation.  I feel this is certainly and easily within the realm of possibly.

 

As more and more foreign embassies come out with this same statement taking X-amount deposited monthly into a Thai bank account it also makes it easier for Thai Immigration to implement such a policy, especially since those foreign embassies have been notifying their citizens of the income letter change.  Just the mere home country embassy notifications, whether the info in the notifications was correct or not, makes the change easier to implement for Thai Immigration. 

 

Our own foreign embassies are basically making it easier for Thai Immigration to shift to a monthly international deposit into a Thai bank requirement.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Pib

[Pattaya46]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Our own foreign embassies are basically making it easier for Thai Immigration to shift to a monthly international deposit into a Thai bank requirement.

It will never be the only option. No way by example that they refuse proof of money legally earned from investment in Thailand.

[Pib]

31 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It will never be the only option. No way by example that they refuse proof of money legally earned from investment in Thailand.

Didn't say it was the only option in my post....just talking the required proof to use that monthly option if that is the option a person has been using.

 

Personally, I've used the Bt800K in a Thai bank option for many years.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

Didn't say it was the only option in my post....just talking the required proof to use that monthly option if that is the option a person has been using.

You could be right- but  it would be much more advantageous to Thai Imm to keep the same documentation as shown in the current Thai Imm site and  the Police Order.  The wording is kept fairly vague and lots of  different evidence is allowed plus it doesn't say  where the money has to come from- which leaves it up to the person and the IO to decide. If it is made completely cut and dried- no exception- ways of 'helping' go away.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Washington DC Embassy requires minimum 15 business days mail O-A application plus all the time it would take for me to get the medical and the FDLE police hard-copy clearance so maybe 6 weeks +/- in the US which is a no-go for me -- hotels and rental cars for 6 weeks as I have no place to stay for more than a few days or else fly RT from Florida to one of the consulates for an in-person application. 

I'd get the medical/police bit while you are in FL, then visit a consulate in-person en-route back to Thailand.  It would only require, at most, one night there - then fly onward to Thailand.  But, hopefully, your "Plan A" of deposits will work (for me as well).

 

[mrwebb8825]

They can't possibly make it international deposit only as there are many of us who are not old enough yet for government benifits and are married, working, paying morgages, raising families, etc.

Let's not forget, this whole business affects more than the geritol set.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Rugon said:

Having 800k in the bank is a fair enough requirement. Thailand is no longer a 3rd World Country but a rapidly developing country. If one can't satisfy having $20k in the bank for a few months, one shouldn't be allowed a long-term visa.

Because who is harmed if we stay? 

A better question, how many Thais lose their jobs if we leave? 

Has Thailand run out of poor people/families who need the jobs we finance with our foreign-capital?

 

And please don't reply with a macro-economics angle (% of GDP etc) - I am talking about tens of thousands of human-beings - Exapts (many with families here) and Thais (family members, business-owners, and their employees) - who would be negatively affected by TI potentially forcing-out expats who are legally here with embassy letters based on the "gross-worldwide-income," standard. 

 

Even those who can pull off a "net imported income" standard are still in the dark regarding other "proof" of the sources of those deposits (only certain types of income?).  An income-based policy without embassy-letters has not been announced by TI.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Our own foreign embassies are basically making it easier for Thai Immigration to shift to a monthly international deposit into a Thai bank requirement.   

Not sure they had any choice.  It would be easy to rotate money out of Thailand and back to make it look like "foreign-income" on a Thai bank-statement - so not sure TI will leave it at that.  But if they do, this workaround could help those who only qualified under the long-standing embassy-letter rules - "gross worldwide income."  We will see what TI says is acceptable.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

46 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You could be right- but  it would be much more advantageous to Thai Imm to keep the same documentation as shown in the current Thai Imm site and  the Police Order.  The wording is kept fairly vague and lots of  different evidence is allowed plus it doesn't say  where the money has to come from- which leaves it up to the person and the IO to decide. If it is made completely cut and dried- no exception- ways of 'helping' go away.

 

Another member here posted lately of a conversation with an Immigration supervisor at CW in BKK where the person claimed the income transfers for the future did NOT have to be international...they could be from any source so long as they landed in a Thai bank account, according to his recounting.  So, we'll have to see how it all shakes out.

 

Note, the Australian Embassy graphic announcement makes no reference to the source/sources of the income, just that they have to be put into a Thai bank account.

 

[merijn]

Phuket immigration will only accept the affidavit when this is combined with proof of a Government pension. (which will guarantee the monthly income for the next 12 months)

The information from the embassy about the monthly transfers is not (yet) confirmed by Thai immigration as acceptable.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, merijn said:

Phuket immigration will only accept the affidavit when this is combined with proof of a Government pension. (which will guarantee the monthly income for the next 12 months)

The information from the embassy about the monthly transfers is not (yet) confirmed by Thai immigration as acceptable.

Does the "proven" government pension need to be imported monthly into a Thai bank account and/or does the full claimed pension need to be imported annually? Or is showing a document from the pension provider and transfers into a non-Thai bank account sufficient?

[JLCrab]

I have mentioned a few times now this topic that a likely extension scenario based upon monthly income would be proof in a Thai passbook account that 65K baht monthly has arrived as an international (FTT) transfer for 12 months or whatever.

 

This is because, for the last 10 years or so, I have signed an income affidavit  from the US Embassy-Bangkok the current (and last) version of which says:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $__xx_____ from sources in the United States.

 

Whether this becomes the only option, or an option at all, who knows.

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

My phone transfer sms shows Social Security Admin and my account number and the amount in both baht and dollars and from abroad and time of transfer.  IO would have no trouble reading it. 

They also would have no trouble imagining how many million people could have sent you the SMS.

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Sorry but you should read a bit more of this long thread.

No such announcement (in fact no announcement at all) has been made by Thai Immigration.

This could be just bad understanding by the Embassy of how Visa Extension process works...

Korat immigration has stated to expats that as long as your bank book show the required amount coming in from abroad each month you are good to go. Now every province has different immigrations quirks, but it is likely that Buriram immigration will be the same.

[merijn]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Does the "proven" government pension need to be imported monthly into a Thai bank account and/or does the full claimed pension need to be imported annually? Or is showing a document from the pension provider and transfers into a non-Thai bank account sufficient?

They did not specify this, but i will try to find out.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

In my opinion when the dust settles on this which is when "HQ Thai immigration" hopefully provides updated guidance on the "monthly income option" my money is on the bet that it will indeed require an average monthly international deposit into your Thai bank....repeat, into your Thai bank account....not your bank account outside of Thailand.  Summary: monthly international deposit of 65K to your Thai bank account if using the monthly income method.

 

And accepted proof will be a bank letter with passbook/statement confirming the monthly international transfers.  This proof method is similar to the 800/400K large deposit in a Thai bank method (i.e., relies on the Thai bank versus a foreign financial company/bank) and is easy for an immigration officer to review & verify.   If feeling the provided Thai bank docs are fake the immigration office can easily/quickly contact the issuing Thai bank to confirm the docs.   It's following the KISS principle. 

 

If the docs are identified/suspected as fake during the extension renewal the renewal is disapproved.  If the the extension is approved but say a little later (a few days, week or months) later they do a verification check with the Thai bank that issued the docs and the docs are found to be fake your extension is cancelled, you are given 7 days to depart the country, and possibly even an reentry/reapplication ban of X-years depending on the situation.  I feel this is certainly and easily within the realm of possibly.

 

As more and more foreign embassies come out with this same statement taking X-amount deposited monthly into a Thai bank account it also makes it easier for Thai Immigration to implement such a policy, especially since those foreign embassies have been notifying their citizens of the income letter change.  Just the mere home country embassy notifications, whether the info in the notifications was correct or not, makes the change easier to implement for Thai Immigration. 

 

Our own foreign embassies are basically making it easier for Thai Immigration to shift to a monthly international deposit into a Thai bank requirement.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like way too much this and that blah blah.

 

Easy solution: The government will approve certain agents to verify the income.  You walk in with a verification piece of paper from the agent.  It will cost of course but sure speeds the process no need for TI to do forensics into your financials.

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, pontious said:

At the moment you still need the embassy letter.

Not at Korat, and not (I suspect) at Buriram immigration, Korat has already stated that if your embassy does not give out a letter that verification of income abroad (via an updated bank passbook) is all that is needed. If all the embassies stop giving out letters as of December, Thai immigration will have to find a work around. I plan on asking during my next 90 day check in (which is in January) in Buriram. Until then I intend to not worry about something I have zero control over. Worst case I leave Thailand when my retirement extension expires and get another non-imm O visa until this sorts itself out. 

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I have mentioned a few times now this topic that a likely extension scenario based upon monthly income would be proof in a Thai passbook account that 65K baht monthly has arrived as an international (FTT) transfer for 12 months or whatever.

 

This is because, for the last 10 years or so, I have signed an income affidavit  from the US Embassy-Bangkok the current (and last) version of which says:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $__xx_____ from sources in the United States.

 

Whether this becomes the only option, or an option at all, who knows.

That doesn't say anything about it coming into Thailand, that just says you "Receive" that amount, the monies could be paid into an account anywhere, you've still "Received" it.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Mike Teavee
typos

[pontious]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Not at Korat, and not (I suspect) at Buriram immigration, Korat has already stated that if your embassy does not give out a letter that verification of income abroad (via an updated bank passbook) is all that is needed. If all the embassies stop giving out letters as of December, Thai immigration will have to find a work around. I plan on asking during my next 90 day check in (which is in January) in Buriram. Until then I intend to not worry about something I have zero control over. Worst case I leave Thailand when my retirement extension expires and get another non-imm O visa until this sorts itself out. 

The embassy letters are valid for 6 months. TI has made no announcement of any changes yet so June 2019. They can always ask for back up documents.

Edited November 2, 2018 by pontious

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Korat immigration has stated to expats that as long as your bank book show the required amount coming in from abroad each month you are good to go. Now every province has different immigrations quirks, but it is likely that Buriram immigration will be the same.

Any more details?

I usually put in 2 to 300,000b at a time and live off that for several months.  No 65,000 is going in every month. So, I would not qualify?

[pontious]

5 minutes ago, pontious said:

Korat has already stated that if your embassy does not give out a letter that verification of income abroad

They do and they are valid 6 months.

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Any more details?

I usually put in 2 to 300,000b at a time and live off that for several months.  No 65,000 is going in every month. So, I would not qualify?

As long as you have the equivalent of  65,000 baht x 12 months over the course of the year I think you would be good to go.