Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Thaidream]

36 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why are you posting a random amount in US dollars?  That makes absolutely no sense.  I could say I lost $4,000,000.00.  How much could you in the realm of real possibilities could you lose by putting 800,000 in the bank in Thailand?  You are using the chicken little argument to try and scare people.  Come on now what is the realistic risk to 800,000 in a Thai bank?  Remember the baht is not going to come off a dollar peg again as that is a once in a lifetime occurrence.

I am no trying to scare anyone- That is the exact amount I lost after the 1997 Baht devaluation which sent the Dollar from 25 to the dollar to around 44.  I have been coming to Thailand for almost 50 years- the Baht had been pretty stable from the early 70s to 1997- so there was no idea that  there would be a huge devaluation. Once in a lifetime-  there was a Great Depression; there was the Baht devaluation; then in 2008 the whole  World  economy almost imploded.

You don't have to agree with anything I said but  History is on my side, I have  been through 3 Coups in Thailand- There is an election in Feb/March 2019.   Risk is in the eyes of the beholder- I wont be putting any money in a Thai bank until mid 2019  at the earliest if ever.  Caveat Emptor.  Please go right ahead and delude yourself .  It's your money- not mine. Mine will stay in the USA where a Dollar is still a Dollar.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, balo said:

Yes I will get a much better interest in my country Norway . And I can discuss in any thread I want . Factual information is not your strongest points. 

 

This thread is about USA.  You're lost.  Savings rates in banks in Norway are half of what is available in Thailand.  But why would you want to compare banks savings rate to bank savings rates?  That would be fair.  I'm sure you want to dazzle us with your investment prowess.  If the Norwegian embassy cancels the income method letter I'll be sure to start posting about USA savings rates there.  (do you see that your information is misplaced?)

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread is about USA.  You're lost.  Savings rates in banks in Norway are half of what is available in Thailand.  But why would you want to compare banks savings rate to bank savings rates?  That would be fair.  I'm sure you want to dazzle us with your investment prowess.  If the Norwegian embassy cancels the income method letter I'll be sure to start posting about USA savings rates there.  (do you see that your information is misplaced?)

You need to take a chill pill- there are other posters who have information to report- you are not the only person who has any money but you might want to listen to people who have been around a bit and  share their experiences./ Knowledge is power.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thaidream

[Mike Teavee]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am no trying to scare anyone- That is the exact amount I lost after the 1997 Baht devaluation which sent the Dollar from 25 to the dollar to around 44.  I have been coming to Thailand for almost 50 years- the Baht had been pretty stable from the early 70s to 1997- so there was no idea that  there would be a huge devaluation. Once in a lifetime-  there was a Great Depression; there was the Baht devaluation; then in 2008 the whole  World  economy almost imploded.

You don't have to agree with anything I said but  History is on my side, I have  been through 3 Coups in Thailand- There is an election in Feb/March 2019.   Risk is in the eyes of the beholder- I wont be putting any money in a Thai bank until mid 2019  at the earliest if ever.  Caveat Emptor.  Please go right ahead and delude yourself .  It's your money- not mine. Mine will stay in the USA where a Dollar is still a Dollar.

How did you lose the money?

 

Did you bring a load of money over at one rate & repatriate later at a worse rate or is it more a case of if you'd have brought the money over later you would have got an extra $22,000?

 

A Baht is still a Baht if you live there, it's only when moving money into/out of the country are you gaining/losing $s

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I am no trying to scare anyone- That is the exact amount I lost after the 1997 Baht devaluation which sent the Dollar from 25 to the dollar to around 44.  I have been coming to Thailand for almost 50 years- the Baht had been pretty stable from the early 70s to 1997- so there was no idea that  there would be a huge devaluation. Once in a lifetime-  there was a Great Depression; there was the Baht devaluation; then in 2008 the whole  World  economy almost imploded.

You don't have to agree with anything I said but  History is on my side, I have  been through 3 Coups in Thailand- There is an election in Feb/March 2019.   Risk is in the eyes of the beholder- I wont be putting any money in a Thai bank until mid 2019  at the earliest if ever.  Caveat Emptor.  Please go right ahead and delude yourself .  It's your money- not mine. Mine will stay in the USA where a Dollar is still a Dollar.

Maybe you should look up the performance of the Thai currency during the great depression and 2008 before you post. 

 

Where the dollar is still a dollar?  Ha ha ha.  I got 42 baht to the dollar when I sold my house in the USA.  Has the good old USA dollar tanked since then?   So you tell me about the strength of the dollar. 

 

You lost money on the exchange and I made money.  One good investment as opposed to one bad investment.  Based on our performance in investing in the baht who would you listen to? 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum... Could you please remind me which Thai Immigration changes have been a "danger" to expats in Thailand? In the last 10 years by example? My memory fails to do it...

I cited the examples in my earlier post: My own experience with blatant-corruption in an office (reported by others, also) blocking my applications for legal-stays, unpredictable behavior towards those entering the country at some entry-points with valid visas (used to be only "backpacker border-runners," but affecting far more*), and now this embassy-letter junk.  This pattern of behavior tells me, "You may not be safe/secure here, even if you do everything according to the published laws and rules." 

I am not making predictions, nor planning a swift-exit from my home, wife, etc.  I simply want to be prepared for potential problems, which are foreshadowed by inconsistent behavior (putting it nicely) by the controlling-force which decides if I can be in this country or not.  Clearly, some factions want more of us gone.  I would not put significant savings into a country where officials behave this way.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

How did you lose the money?

 

Did you bring a load of money over at one rate & the repatriate at a worse rate or is it a case of it you'd have brought the money over later you would have got an extra $22,000?

 

A Baht is still a Baht if you live there, it's only when moving into/out of the country are you gaining/losing $s

 

 

Brought $50,000 over at 25 to the dollar- repatriated at 44 to the dollar.  Not to mention I wanted to sell my house in Thailand and could not as I would have lost a lot more.  I don't know one person who  was able to predict Thailand would devalue it's currency.  People say once in a lifetime?  Nonsense- there was a great depression- the World economy almost collapsed in 2008. Look at what happened recently in Cyprus.  China is way over leveraged. with a declining GDP.  Why would I want to park 800K in a Thai bank if I don't have to.??  I leave it in the Us where I can easily walk to a Thai aTM and pull out each month what i need- This is the 21st Century- It's called technology.  Thailand can mandate I have to bring the money in- Let them do it- then I will decide what I'm going to do.  Many options at that point.

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You need to take a chill pill- there are other posters who have information to report- you are not the only person who has any money but you might want to listen to people who have been around a bit and  share their experiences./ Knowledge is power.

I got to Thailand in 1968 the first time.  I moved here full time 20 years ago.  You might want to listen to me as opposed to the expats who can't put a small amount in the bank.  Why would a fellow come to a thread about American income letters and say he can make more in Norway banks than Thailand?  How does that further the knowledge of this thread? 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I cited the examples in my earlier post: My own experience with blatant-corruption in an office (reported by others, also) blocking my applications for legal-stays, unpredictable behavior towards those entering the country at some entry-points with valid visas (used to be only "backpacker border-runners," but affecting far more*), and now this embassy-letter junk.  This pattern of behavior tells me, "You may not be safe/secure here, even if you do everything according to the published laws and rules." 

I am not making predictions, nor planning a swift-exit from my home, wife, etc.  I simply want to be prepared for potential problems, which are foreshadowed by inconsistent behavior (putting it nicely) by the controlling-force which decides if I can be in this country or not.  Clearly, some factions want more of us gone.  I would not put significant savings into a country where officials behave this way.

Do you really think the Thai officials are worse than the current government of the USA?  I guess you don't watch CNN.  If I listened to you I would think sky is falling.  No one wants us gone unless you are a bad apple or without the means to support yourself.  I built U-Tapao airport it's not like I havn't been here a while. 

[Thaidream]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You lost money on the exchange and I made money.  One good investment as opposed to one bad investment.  Based on our performance in investing in the baht who would you listen to? 

I had to return to the US as my wife died and I had to go to work.  This has nothing to  do with investments.  I am happy for you but  you are in no position to  tell me what I should have done.  I suggest you reevaluate your life and your attitude.  You can keep your money in Thailand if you wish- my experience tells me it may be risky.  This is not a game of who wins and who loses. It's called life. Shit happens- if you are lucky enough to live as long as I have- you may find out what I mean but I don't wish it on you. 

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Brought $50,000 over at 25 to the dollar- repatriated at 44 to the dollar.  Not to mention I wanted to sell my house in Thailand and could not as I would have lost a lot more.  I don't know one person who  was able to predict Thailand would devalue it's currency.  People say once in a lifetime?  Nonsense- there was a great depression- the World economy almost collapsed in 2008. Look at what happened recently in Cyprus.  China is way over leveraged. with a declining GDP.  Why would I want to park 800K in a Thai bank if I don't have to.??  I leave it in the Us where I can easily walk to a Thai aTM and pull out each month what i need- This is the 21st Century- It's called technology.  Thailand can mandate I have to bring the money in- Let them do it- then I will decide what I'm going to do.  Many options at that point.

So tell us what terrible thing happened to the baht in 2008?  How would your 50 grand have done if you left it in a Thai bank for 20 years?  What does Cyprus and China have to do with the Thai baht? 

[anon2736434]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So tell us what terrible thing happened to the baht in 2008? 

You were here or so you say, so tell us, I know the thai businessmen I work with said it was a total loss for many, only the connected ones were saved from massive losses. SCB was the only bank recapitalized by the gov. Okay now tell me how wrong I am since you know it all. Hey can I go down and see your handprints in the runway at UTapeo airport since you built it all by yourself. Any pictures of you on the walls during the ribbon cutting ceremony or maybe a statue in the lobby somewhere ?

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

o tell us what terrible thing happened to the baht in 2008?  How would your 50 grand have done if you left it in a Thai bank for 20 years?  What does Cyprus and China have to do with the Thai baht? 

Sir- you have lost all credibility- if you don't know the answer to this you and I have nothing further to discuss on this issue. i hold no animosity- do your homework or don't do it- leave your money in a Thai bank or don't. It's really up to you. By the way-you didn't build Utapo alone- many of us helped and built many more installations. Some of us never returned. I'll leave you to your thoughts.  

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I had to return to the US as my wife died and I had to go to work.  This has nothing to  do with investments.  I am happy for you but  you are in no position to  tell me what I should have done.  I suggest you reevaluate your life and your attitude.  You can keep your money in Thailand if you wish- my experience tells me it may be risky.  This is not a game of who wins and who loses. It's called life. Shit happens- if you are lucky enough to live as long as I have- you may find out what I mean but I don't wish it on you. 

I'm almost 80 how old are you?  If your personal problems have nothing to do with your investments why mention them?  I have confidence in Bank of Bangkok they are rated highly for security.  Keep your opinions on my life to yourself. 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

'm almost 80 how old are you?  If your personal problems have nothing to do with your investments why mention them?  I have confidence in Bank of Bangkok they are rated highly for security.  Keep your opinions on my life to yourself. 

I have no opinions on your life, I wish you a long life- and many happy returns. You and I are both too old to argue about what may or may not happen.  Take care.

[marcusarelus]

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Sir- you have lost all credibility- if you don't know the answer to this you and I have nothing further to discuss on this issue. i hold no animosity- do your homework or don't do it- leave your money in a Thai bank or don't. It's really up to you. By the way-you didn't build Utapo alone- many of us helped and built many more installations. Some of us never returned. I'll leave you to your thoughts.  

You are mixed up.  You said the baht crashed in 2008 like it did in 1997.  It didn't.  The removal of the dollar peg was a once in a lifetime thing not a common occurrence as you are trying to sell. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

You are mixed up.  You said the baht crashed in 2008 like it did in 1997.  It didn't.  The removal of the dollar peg was a once in a lifetime thing note a common occurrence as you are trying to sell. 

Have  a nice evening!! The discussion is over...

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thaidream

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Did you have to fax/email a copy of your passport?  This goes against what they earlier said in other DeeMoney related threads.

They emailed me an application form and I emailed back scanned copy of completed form plus scanned copy of my passport (face page and visa extension page).

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

What "dead links" are you talking about?  Their links work for me.  Now some of the icons you might think are sublinks but they are just icons/images---they are not sublinks leading to something else.

Links work for me too.

 

They also respond very promptly via both email and  Line. I just contacted them re a transfer I have to make to Cambodia (issue on the receiving end) and at 9 PM at night, got an immediate reply.

 

They have Filipino staff on their tech support/customer service so very good English.

[CharlieH]

Reported posts removed.

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Have  a nice evening!! The discussion is over...

The point of this whole discussion is simple.  You and a couple of others are trying to justify not putting 800,000 into a Thai bank because of non economic, not real reasons.  Your reasons are motivated by anti Thai feelings as opposed to solid financial data about the security of Thai banks.  I think there will be a way to confirm income because of what I read on the American embassy website and what the lady said in the BE interview but if not you can put your money in a Thai bank without worry.  If you wish to continue to disparage Thai banks, fine with me but I fail to see that it has a place in this thread.  It is just not a rational reason to avoid the 800,000 in the bank method. 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum... Could you please remind me which Thai Immigration changes have been a "danger" to expats in Thailand? In the last 10 years by example? My memory fails to do it...

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I cited the examples in my earlier post: My own experience with blatant-corruption in an office (reported by others, also) blocking my applications for legal-stays, unpredictable behaviour towards those entering the country at some entry-points with valid visas (used to be only "backpacker border-runners," but affecting far more*), and now this embassy-letter junk.

Sorry, but your examples do not seem at all concern expats... 

- Corruption? Maybe for you, but it never happened to me, or to my expat-friends for what I may know.

- Behaviour at entry? Never heard of an expat having such problem with his ReEntry-Permit

- Embassy-letter? It's the decision of 2 embassies, not one of Thai Immigration

So ?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Pattaya46

[jimn]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Brought $50,000 over at 25 to the dollar- repatriated at 44 to the dollar.  Not to mention I wanted to sell my house in Thailand and could not as I would have lost a lot more.  I don't know one person who  was able to predict Thailand would devalue it's currency.  People say once in a lifetime?  Nonsense- there was a great depression- the World economy almost collapsed in 2008. Look at what happened recently in Cyprus.  China is way over leveraged. with a declining GDP.  Why would I want to park 800K in a Thai bank if I don't have to.??  I leave it in the Us where I can easily walk to a Thai aTM and pull out each month what i need- This is the 21st Century- It's called technology.  Thailand can mandate I have to bring the money in- Let them do it- then I will decide what I'm going to do.  Many options at that point.

I think its you who has lost all credibility. I believe you when you said you lost money in 2008 but it had nothing to do with the baht being devalued. 1997 was the Asian banking crisis 2008 was the run on the banks in the US and the UK amoungst others. I seem to remember the thai baht being quite stable and gained in strength against said currencies.

[HHTel]

5 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Why limiting to western expats ?

Expats from China, Japan & India also use these same methods,

and so sometimes an Embassy Letter to stay here,

and they are many more than expats of UK & USA.

The difference is the percentage of expats from those countries who come here to retire or are married to a Thai.  By a large majority, the Chinese come for study, investment etc.

 

Quote

About 74.8% came for employment such as white collar jobs, Chinese-language teachers and tour guides, while 21% came for study and 4.2% to accompany their family. Some intend to return to China once they have made their fortune or succeeded in their endeavours. 

I'm sure you can work out from that that 95% do not come for retirement and out of the remaining 5%, 4.2% accompany their families.

 

You'll find the same for Japan and India so my post stands.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

Sorry, but your examples do not seem at all concern expats... 

- Corruption? Maybe for you, but it never happened to me, or to my expat-friends for what I may know.

I would guess you are not a regular reader of this site.  It's nice that it hasn't happened to you yet.  I hope they don't harm more soon, but all should be prepared for when they do.

 

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

- Behaviour at entry? Never heard of an expat having such problem with his ReEntry-Permit

It wasn't a problem for those entering visa-exempt until it was.

Then it became is a problem for ED Visa holders on valid re-entry permits.

It was never a problem for those with valid Tourist Visas until fairly recently, but now even German snowbirds, and Swiss citizens who stay out months between entries, are being targeted (hardly the dregs of the world).

Now, that list of "problems" includes those on retirement and marriage extensions based on income, thanks to immigration telling our embassies their letters "aren't good enough." 

Ergo, the Pattern: More of us are having problems every year now.  And since we are on a 1-year-max leash, being here decades makes no difference.

 

How long until they say the money in the bank isn't enough - just hand over 500K Baht Tribute every few years or get out, and we don't give a hoot about your family?  They clearly don't care about all the Thais who lost their jobs due to their previous "More Westerners Out" policies.  Macro-economic "not that much of GDP" talk aside, Thousands of Thai-lives have been harmed for No Justifiable or Logical Reason already.  Why would the well-being of a non-hiso farang like me and his Thai wife concern them?  They treated her like some sort of criminal/traitor, in our last immigration-visit.

Consider the state of a country that will let this go on - IOs lying to visitors and ignoring the published laws and rules at entry-points, enforcing agent-use for 10x+ the price at local offices for legit-applicants, and now moving the goalposts in an underhanded way - as they just have with the income-method. 

 

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

- Embassy-letter? It's the decision of 2 embassies, not one of Thai Immigration

So ?

The embassies claim Thai Immigration forced this issue on them.  I doubted this when only the BE was saying it, but given the US-Embassy is saying the same thing (and is not scaling down their embassy, as the Brits are), it appears to be what has happened. 

 

I'll bring in enough to live on incrementally, and that's it.  I hope the "new rules" will allow for this, as they did in the past.

[Kadilo]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Retirement extensions are meant for people that don't work (retired). There's a clue in the name.

 

I understand some people don't want to keep money in Thailand, but that's a choice. If you -- can't/don't want to -- meet the criteria you can't get the extension.

 

Sounds like, if you're over 50, you'd be best off with Non 'O-A' (long stay) visa.

With the greatest of respect, that’s incorrect. 

Some People like myself who are over 50 and and not retired but come to Thailand regularly were advised to, after getting an O-A in their own country, to follow that up with the Retirement extension. 

In my case I was stopped at immigration and told if I continued with a TR I would be refused admission until I went the O-A, then extension route. 

 

I do agree that, along with everyone else I have a choice and I will choose to keep my money in Thailand by whatever means they decide as I want to live there upon retirement and have been planning future life that way. 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Kadilo said:

With the greatest of respect, that’s incorrect. 

Some People like myself who are over 50 and and not retired but come to Thailand regularly were advised to, after getting an O-A in their own country, to follow that up with the Retirement extension. 

In my case I was stopped at immigration and told if I continued with a TR I would be refused admission until I went the O-A, then extension route. 

I clearly wrote "meant for".

 

Immigration, historically and currently, are clearly not bothered if someone is working as long as its not in Thailand, but the fact remains that visas and extensions issued on the basis of retirement are meant for people that have retired (not working). Some embassies/consulates want proof of retirement before issuing a visa, fortunately for you immigration don't.

[John7777]

800,000 in a Thai bank.  That’s not really much of a problem, is it?  I think what bothers people is the seemingly continual moving of the goal posts. Today the rules are one thing, but next year?  What about the year after that?  

[mogandave]

No... I'm referring to the fact that Capital Gains are not Income hence any Tax to be paid is "Capital Gains Tax" not "Income Tax".
 
Whether Thai Immigration accept this as proof of income is another thing, but really it's no different than selling any other asset (House, Car etc...) 
 

As I understand it (at least in the the US) capital gains are taxed as income, just at a different rate.

They have to be included as income on a US tax return, yes?

[assayer]

22 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You wrote, "The next big drawback to this account is the length of time it takes to get it into effect, 2-3 months is what the branch manager told me today."

 

That's not correct it will open immediately. 

 

I see, and thanks for the explanation. Yes the account opened immediately, however the USA bureaucracy is such that the direct deposited checks will not arrive for 2-3 months; and so the account is of no avail for that period.