Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Thaidream]

30 minutes ago, elviajero said:

was really referring to the expats receiving cash from their business that they could show as deposits in a Thai bank. If the rules change I cannot seeing that being accepted. Someone receiving a regular dividend or income from a registered Thai business supported by tax return is, IMO, a possibility.

Look folks- this isn't about me or you- the implications of what they do transcends individual situations.  Some of the posts refer to a personal preference which is fine but your  personal preference may  force other people to  leave Thailand.  KISS- Keeping it simple may suit you but it doesn't suit everyone. 

 

If one is an Immigration Officer  working off an Immigration Law or Police Order that clearly states evidence of income- that means they may have to work a little harder to determine if the applicant actually meets the letter and spirit of the law./

 

I want a system that allows everyone who has the income be it 65K or 40 K to be able to remain in the country as long  as that income is legally obtained.  There are plenty of people who have the income be it abroad or in Thailand. Everyone should have the opportunity to live their life .

 

I am extremely irritated at the 3 Embassies who abruptly without warning decided to end their letters without adequate warning to its citizens sand without  a firm, negotiated policy that meets most people's requirements . It is obvious to me that the Embassies have no idea the chaos they have created and I am not sure they really care.   It would have been easy to simply  provide the letters  until  30 June 2019- guarantee they would be accepted until 31 December 2019.  Then the citizens would have time to comply  with the new system; sell assets; bring funds from abroad; marry their fiancee and work out a  solution. Instead, they have cut the cord without sufficient support. You can all decided the morality of such a decision.

 

Luckily and by the grace of God- I have been blessed with  the means to move forward but I am not pleased in the way this has been handled and the adverse impact it will have on some of our fellow expats who simply want to live their lives.

 

“If you’re in the luckiest one per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”  I'll leave it at that.. Warren  Buffet said it- not me.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Thaidream

[mogandave]

I would much rather show immigration a passbook (book-bank) with the 800 cured or 65k monthly transfers than a lot of personal income documents.

At the end of the day, you likely have to bring money in anyway.

If you’re working illegally you ought to get the ???? anyway...

[elviajero]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

57 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Yes and when you consider there is legitimate income made in Thailand by many people who have investments; companies; etc- they will be shut out if one can only get an extension based upon a bank transfer.

If a person could prove legal income from investments it would be accepted. The proof would be a tax return declaring their income and paying taxes on it.

"it would be accepted".

 

Have you ever known a case of someone getting an extension of stay that isn't working but receiving unearned income in Thailand?

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Have you ever known a case of someone getting an extension of stay that isn't working but receiving unearned income in Thailand?

Yes- a foreigner who owns a resort- has a legitimate formed company- has no work permit- has income from his business and gets his extension by showing his company docs as well as  tax documents.

[onera1961]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

And that currently ATM receipts are accepted as proof of income,

Sorry I cannot keep track of ATM receipts and don't want TI to spend hours pouring over someone's ATM record, 50% may be even fake. If that day comes and I need an extension, I will to resort to the Agent system. Glad it is still well and kicking. 

[mogandave]

Yes- a foreigner who owns a resort- has a legitimate formed company- has no work permit- has income from his business and gets his extension by showing his company docs as well as  tax documents.

Well than he doesn’t need a letter from the consulate, so this does not affect him.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

Well than he doesn’t need a letter from the consulate, so this does not affect him.

I have no idea what he used but if he did use the letter that was his prerogative as long as he was declaring his income honestly.

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Yes- a foreigner who owns a resort- has a legitimate formed company- has no work permit- has income from his business and gets his extension by showing his company docs as well as  tax documents.

Of course you do!

 

How often does he receive dividends?

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Have you ever known a case of someone getting an extension of stay that isn't working but receiving unearned income in Thailand?

Yes

Why do you think they would not accept it.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Of course you do!

 

How often does he receive dividends?

No reason for a sarcastic answer- I know 1 person. Why would I know his dividend amount or any other personal financial status

 

Maybe he lied; maybe he never paid his taxes but you asked a question and I answered it.  Because my answer doesn't fit your preconceived way you want it to be- doesn't mean I am not providing you with the truth.   Shall I go interrogate him regarding his status  on the basis you don't believe it.   

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

This is the current posting on the UK Embassy Bangkok website:

 

"British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand."

 

So at least they are being specific about the source.

I don't mean to pick nits but in my opinion "transferred into an account in Thailand" does not necessarily mean "transferred from outside Thailand to an account in Thailand". The British embassy may mean the latter, I do not know, but  "transferred into an account in Thailand" can equally well mean "transferred from an account in Thailand to another account in Thailand". Kasikorn Bank, for example, calls transfers within Thailand "Other Account Funds Transfer", Krungsri Bank calls it "Fund Transfer: Other Account"

 

Aside from that, money is PAID INTO an account or TRANSFERRED TO an account.

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

28 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Have you ever known a case of someone getting an extension of stay that isn't working but receiving unearned income in Thailand?

Yes

Why do you think they would not accept it.

Because as it stands the system is geared up for income from abroad, or income from employment in Thailand. 

 

I don't see any logical reason why it shouldn't be accepted, but I don't agree with your assertion that it would be. I haven't seen one single report of anyone getting an extension using unearned income in Thailand.

 

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

[Russell17au]

39 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you withdraw funds via an ATM you have transferred your money from Australia to Thailand.

 

I know we don't currently, generally, have to show income is being transferred to a Thai bank account. And that currently ATM receipts are accepted as proof of income, BUT only in addition to a embassy letter/affidavit. 

 

IF they change the rules they will probably insist on direct transfers. I can't see then accepting ATM receipts.

Rubbish, I have not transferred my money to Thailand, I have withdrawn money in Thailand. You do not know what you are talking about. My money goes into my Australian bank account from my income but I withdraw my money as I need it in Thailand using an ATM. I only withdraw what I need which might only be 30,000baht this month and only 25,000baht next month and then maybe 41,000baht the next month and the remainder stays in my Australian bank account. My income exceeds the required amount but that does not come to Thailand only what I spend comes to Thailand. I do not bother to keep ATM receipts because they do not prove what my income is, they only prove what money I have withdrawn.

[mogandave]

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

Maybe you could’ve...

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Because as it stands the system is geared up for income from abroad, or income from employment in Thailand. 

 

I don't see any logical reason why it shouldn't be accepted, but I don't agree with your assertion that it would be. I haven't seen one single report of anyone getting an extension using unearned income in Thailand.

 

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

You are talking a load of rubbish. The system is not geared up for income from abroad or income from employment in Thailand. The system is geared up for individual income earned, and that is all.

All because you have not been told about anyone getting an extension using unearned income in Thailand does not mean that it has not happened. Who do you think you are that you think that these transactions have to be reported to you.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I don't see any logical reason why it shouldn't be accepted, but I don't agree with your assertion that it would be. I haven't seen one single report of anyone getting an extension using unearned income in Thailand.

Not sure what you mean by unearned income. All income is earned in some way or the other. You could rent out house or condo and it would really be earned income.

Even my pension could be considered earned income since I earned it by working for many years and contributing to the fund for it for many years. 

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

For example if your income was earned from from an investment in a company with no day to day involvement it could be used for income by showing your tax return.

[onera1961]

9 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

My money goes into my Australian bank account from my income but I withdraw my money as I need it in Thailand using an ATM. I only withdraw what I need which might only be 30,000baht this month and only 25,000baht next month and then maybe 41,000baht the next month and the remainder stays in my Australian bank account.

May be TI does not want people like you. They want to see people bringing at least 65K/month into Thaiand. Who knows? Just a guess. 

[mogandave]

The system is geared up for individual income earned, and that is all.

Why would unearned income be disallowed?

[Thaidream]

12 minutes ago, elviajero said:

ecause as it stands the system is geared up for income from abroad, or income from employment in Thailand. 

 

I don't see any logical reason why it shouldn't be accepted, but I don't agree with your assertion that it would be. I haven't seen one single report of anyone getting an extension using unearned income in Thailand.

 

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

This is your opinion. My opinion, the police order and the  Thai imm Website-  says that income from abroad is not a requirement. It maybe in the future. None of us know.

 

Just because you have never seen an extension as both I and UJ   described does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

I have never seen or been to Australia.  I have every reason to believe it exists. You need to get  your believer fixed!

[onera1961]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you mean by unearned income.

Earned income means income derived from a paid work - not from investment (rental is a kind of investment), inheritance, gift, etc.

Edited November 11, 2018 by onera1961

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Of course you do!

 

How often does he receive dividends?

No reason for a sarcastic answer- I know 1 person. Why would I know his dividend amount or any other personal financial status

 

Maybe he lied; maybe he never paid his taxes but you asked a question and I answered it.  Because my answer doesn't fit your preconceived way you want it to be- doesn't mean I am not providing you with the truth.   Shall I go interrogate him regarding his status  on the basis you don't believe it.

No reason for a sarcastic reply. But for the record, I don't believe this person received an extension by simply showing a tax return.

 

You are supposed to be demonstrating a monthly income form which you live. Most companies issue dividends annually. So I don't see how it fits the monthly income requirement!

2.22 In the case of retirement:

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month:

 

2.18 In the case of being a family member of a Thai national

 

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month

 

If all I have to do is waive my tax return at immigration every time I want an extension, I've been doing it wrong for years!

[Russell17au]

10 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

May be TI does not want people like you. They want to see people bringing at least 65K/month into Thaiand. Who knows? Just a guess. 

Maybe you are correct but as long as I am abiding by the Immigration laws I don't think that they will do anything to me. My income meets the required amount and I produce the required paperwork. So where would it be any different for me compared to you.

[mogandave]

Earned income means income derived from a paid work - not from investment (rental is a kind of investment), inheritance, gift, etc.

I know what it is. My question is why would unearned income be disallowed?

Clearly this is not the case, as Social Security is unearned income and it is allowed.

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Rubbish, I have not transferred my money to Thailand, I have withdrawn money in Thailand. You do not know what you are talking about. My money goes into my Australian bank account from my income but I withdraw my money as I need it in Thailand using an ATM. 

LOL!

 

Your bank in Australia transfer the funds to the bank in Thailand that you magically withdraw your funds form!

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

Hope that day never comes for me. If possible I will live on O-A for the next twenty years. But I want Thai immigration only accept money transferred to Thai banks regularly every month for extension if I ever want it. Any other requirements, I will leave this country. I have plenty of places to go, including Albuferia in Portugal or Las Vegas in the USA

Aren't you an Indian citizen?  I thought I read that.  Why not get the income letter from the Indian embassy?

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

LOL!

 

Your bank in Australia transfer the funds to the bank in Thailand that you magically withdraw your funds form!

That's funny how my Australian bank knows exactly how much money I am going to withdraw and transfer that amount to a Thai bank that they do not know if I am going to use that bank or not and they magically know when I am going to buy something using my Debit card so that they can transfer that money over to the bank account of the person that I am buying from . But according to you the ATM withdrawals will be proof of my 65,000baht monthly income, but my ATM withdrawals only show my withdrawing 40,000baht per month, but my income is in excess of 65,000baht per month and that is acceptable by Thai Immigration so you better do some more studying and get some facts right. Plus I can verify my income.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Russell17au

[elviajero]

22 minutes ago, mogandave said:

29 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you're right I could have had many extensions by just showing my Thai tax returns!

Maybe you could’ve...

 

Maybe, but there aren't many, if any, options I don't know of!

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You are supposed to be demonstrating a monthly income form which you live. Most companies issue dividends annually. So I don't see how it fits the monthly income requirement!

It depends upon which police order you quote. Immigration Bureau Order 138/2557  documents for extension of stay states this.

For 2.18.

For 2.22

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Why would unearned income be disallowed?

 

As said we don't really know,

but I believe, if the above is the case, it would have to be because of the difficulty of varying it .

I don't think they would care where the income came from as long as the income  was legal and verifiable. But this is Thailand after all, so who knows? 

 

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

If that day comes and I need an extension, I will resort to the Agent system. Glad it is still well and kicking. 

What is the Agent system?

I thought the agents were to help with the paperwork and help reduce the wait times at Immigration by holding a place in line for you. Just asking? I used the income affidavit method 3 times and it was very convenient. I always thought to myself, this is too easy. I guess TI found out about this... so just hold up your right hand and swear you have the income. The US embassy didn't want to see my pension statement and neither did TI. I guess I will need to use 800k method next Sep to be safe because I don't want to wait until the last minute to find out Immigration will not accept my bank book & monthly income. If there's an easier way to do it that I don't know about please share. What is the Agent system? Kindly, Johnny

Edited November 11, 2018 by JohnnyBD