Florida man charged in connection with 14 mail bombs sent to Trump critics

[canuckamuck]

6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

He's an enabler, allowing the craziest ones to release their inhibitions following his whims.

 

On the other hand, how many liberal terrorists have acted out their frustrations in the manner of the cartoons you posted?

Those cartoon panels were all based on well known events of of Liberals acting out their frustrations. But my question wasn't, have liberals acted out on their violent fantasies? The question is, Is it Trump creating anger in the right, or is the left with their Open desires for presidential assassination, and the silencing of opposing  opinions.

[Esso49]

12 minutes ago, JemJem said:

Trump and most Republicans must be furious with this Cesar guy; and obviously, the Democrats must be loving all this. This whole incident might cause the Democrats to win, at the mid-terms, many more seats than they had been aiming before. And, it could very well be the beginning of the end for Trump.

One can only hope but then Trump will be spending his remaining two years doing what ?

[riclag]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

I

 

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What's "inconceivable" (well, not really) are the priorities on display in the post above.

This judusbomber has a long history of looking for attention.One sick individual! Events made that individual angry and it acted out the same way it has in the past !  It will fit in nicely with other inmates it appears!  I don't see PT changing or the millions of followers for change!    

[attrayant]

48 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The question is, Is it Trump creating anger in the right, or is the left with their Open desires for presidential assassination, and the silencing of opposing  opinions.

 

Okay, in that case it's easy.  Here's a list.  Were there open desires from "the left" for presidential assassination in 2008-2015?

 

July 27, 2008: Jim David Adkinson, author of a manifesto urging violent war against liberals, opens fire inside a Knoxville, TN church during the youth performance of a musical.  Two killed and seven wounded.  When caught, he tells police that all liberals should be killed.

 

January 21, 2009: Keith Luke, a neo-nazi angry about the inauguration of Obama kills two and injures one in a rape and murder spree targeting "non-white people".  He's caught before reaching a synagogue and eventually convicted of murder.

 

February 26, 2009: Dannie Roy Baker, a former GOP volunteer angry about immigration, opens fire on a roomful of Chilean students, killing two and injuring three.  He pleads no contest to murder.

 

April 4, 2009: Richard Poplawski, a white supremacist, fearful of a plot by Obama to take away his guns kills three police officers and injures two more and a standoff at his home.  Poplawski is eventually convicted of murder.

 

June 10, 2009: James von Brunn, a neo-nazi influenced by Posse Comitatus ideology, walks into the National Holocaust Museum and opens fire, killing a black guard.  He died while awaiting trial for murder and hate crime charges.

 

April 20, 2010: Ross William Muehlberger yells "white power!" as he shoots up a cafe injuring four black and latino women and killing one white bartender before killing himself.

 

July 22, 2011: Anders Behring Breivik set off a car bomb in Oslo that kills eight people and injures 209.  He then travels to a youth camp in Utoya, where he slaughters 69 people, mostly teenagers.  His online manifesto describes a right-wing war.  Breivik was influenced by right-wing American Islamophobe and conspiracy theorist Frank Gaffney, who has now become a mainstream GOP official.

 

August 5, 2012: Wade Michael Page, a member of the neo-nazi Hammerskin Nation, kills six and wounds four during a shooting rampage at a Sikh temple before killing himself.

 

April 13, 2014: Frazier Glenn Miller, a former grand dragon of the KKK embarks on a shooting rampage at two jewish community institutions, killing three.  He gets convicted of capital murder.

 

May 22, 2014: Elliot Roger goes on a killing spree in Isla Vista, CA near a school campus.  He targeted women after leaving a misogynistic video explaining his actions.  He kills six and injures seven before killing himself.

 

June 8, 2014: Jerad and Amanda Miller had a relationship with patriot movement sympathizers at the Cliven Bundy ranch standoff.  They went on a shooting spree that kill three people, including two police officers, in Las Vegas.

 

June 17, 2015: Dylann Roof, a white supremacist radicalized by various internet web sites, opens fire on a bible study session at a church, killing nine.  He gets convicted on 33 counts of federal hate crimes, including murder.

 

July 23, 2015: John Russell Houser shoots up a movie theater, killing two and wounding nine before killing himself.  It turns out that he praised Dylann Roof and urged readers of his manifesto to target liberals for mass murder.

 

November 23, 2015: Allan Lawrence Scarsella, a white supremacist who had been going under cover at BLM events, shoots and wounds five protesters at a protest outside of a Minneapolis police station.    He's convicted of felony riot and assault charges.

 

June 26, 2017: Jeremy Christian, participating in local alt-right rallies, begins harassing Muslim women on a train in Portland.  Three men intervene and he stabs all of them, two fatally.  At his arraignment, he declares that he was simply standing up for free speech.

 

Oct 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock opens fire on a crowd attending a country festival at an open-air venue in Las Vegas using high-powered rifles.  Fifty-eight dead and 851 wounded.  Paddock had previously subscribed to conspiracy theories floated by the far right about the Obama administration taking his guns away.

 

April 23, 2018: Alek Minassian, a self-described "incel", angry at women drives his van at high-speed into a crowded shopping center in Toronto killing ten and injuring another 16 - mostly women.  He posted on Facebook his intention to start an "incel revolution".

 

I invite anyone to compose a list of extreme liberal terrorists and see how it balances out.  I'll even get you started:

August, 2012: Floyd Corkin shoots at a guard at the Family Research Council.  He was targeting the FRC because of its views on gay rights and opposition to gay marriage.

 

March 2017: James Hodgkinson, a Bernie Sanders supporter, shoots at a congressman and his staff.  According to his brother, he had become irritated about Trump being elected.  His Facebook page was filled with anti-Trump posts.

 

Are there more?  Maybe somebody can help.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by attrayant

[lannarebirth]

9 hours ago, sirineou said:

 How can you put the "odiousness" aside? It defines everything he does. 

Every Presidency , recent or otherwise was Much much different. In fact so much different that before this I could not in my wildest  knightmare imagine this being possible. I am not disappointed of Trump . Trump does what Trump is, I am disappointed and disturbed by the amount of support he gets. 

We have not gotten better over the years we have devolved. 

I put it aside because I take it as a given. It is exactly what I would expect from Trump given what I know of him from watching him for 35 years.

 

Quote

We have not gotten better over the years we have devolved. 

I don't know, I doubt it.  I do think there are many people who feel less secure. Recent presidencies and Congress of course, have tended to push legislation that picks winners and losers, rather than legislation that benefits society as a whole. I think more and more people think they're on the losing side. Perpetual wars squandering countless lives and national treasure, only to be told there's no money for the things that can make their lives better.

 

If I hadn't given up on this mess years ago, I'd be upset too.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

I put it aside because I take it as a given. It is exactly what I would expect from Trump given what I know of him from watching him for 35 years.

 

I don't know, I doubt it.  I do think there are many people who feel less secure. Recent presidencies and Congress of course, have tended to push legislation that picks winners and losers, rather than legislation that benefits society as a whole. I think more and more people think they're on the losing side. Perpetual wars squandering countless lives and national treasure, only to be told there's no money for the things that can make their lives better.

 

If I hadn't given up on this mess years ago, I'd be upset too.

 

“Perpetual wars squandering countless lives and national treasure, only to be told there's no money for the things that can make their lives better.”

 

Like tax cuts for the hyper wealthy.

[candide]

5 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Those cartoon panels were all based on well known events of of Liberals acting out their frustrations. But my question wasn't, have liberals acted out on their violent fantasies? The question is, Is it Trump creating anger in the right, or is the left with their Open desires for presidential assassination, and the silencing of opposing  opinions.

Lol. ????

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

I put it aside because I take it as a given. It is exactly what I would expect from Trump given what I know of him from watching him for 35 years.

 

I don't know, I doubt it.  I do think there are many people who feel less secure. Recent presidencies and Congress of course, have tended to push legislation that picks winners and losers, rather than legislation that benefits society as a whole. I think more and more people think they're on the losing side. Perpetual wars squandering countless lives and national treasure, only to be told there's no money for the things that can make their lives better.

 

If I hadn't given up on this mess years ago, I'd be upset too.

 

I agree with everything you say except the devolve issue, evolution is change that promotes survival, and IMO recent changes do not promote survival in fact IMO we are regressing .

     But (there is always a but LOL) my response was to the assertion that aside his odiousness he is no different than other recent presidents,   This is like saying , apart from his cannibalism he is no different than any other cook.  

[canuckamuck]

7 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

Okay, in that case it's easy.  Here's a list.  Were there open desires from "the left" for presidential assassination in 2008-2015?

 

(snip)

 

I invite anyone to compose a list of extreme liberal terrorists and see how it balances out.  I'll even get you started:

(snip)

 

Are there more?  Maybe somebody can help.

 

 

You put a lot of work into that response but you did not address the differences between your list and the events in the cartoon.

For starters your list covers Obama's 2 full terms. Trump hasn't even had 2 years. But the most important difference is your list is essentially a list of independent loonies who were thoroughly rejected and condemned by all society, for their violent acts. The subject of the cartoon is a list of pro violent incitements from major celebrities or politicians that were celebrated by their fan base and only got a slight, tut tut, from the media. With the exception of the panel on Scalise being shot at a baseball game. But that one is about the liberal response, not the shooting itself.

The incidents you listed will continue in America because mental illness is still a major factor and America is so divided now because of mainstream media bias.

There is likely a preponderance right wing conservatives in the type of incidents you listed because: Feminism, intersectionalism, the intense focus on race issues, the demonization of all things conservative by the vast majority of the media, the fight for open borders, the anti gun lobby, The LGBT lobby, Hollywood's attitudes, being labeled a Nazi, and a number of other things. Are all things that are being foisted on conservative people. And when you try to change the values of such a large group of people, a percentage of them are going to get depressed and a number are going to feel threatened.

If you are such a person who was happy with American values 30 years ago, you are not likely to be happy anymore.

So what is making the right wing angry.  The left.

Edited October 27, 2018 by canuckamuck

[Credo]

49 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

<snipped>

If you are such a person who was happy with American values 30 years ago, you are not likely to be happy anymore.

So what is making the right wing angry.  The left.

So, the left is responsible to make the right happy?   The people being victimized by the right's anger and violence deserve what they get?   

Making many of them right means killing or getting rid of all the Jews, gays, transgenders.   It means Blacks going at least as far back as the hind-half of the bus and maybe all the way back to the cotton field.   

 

Most of the right wingers, at least those on social issues, were never very happy.   

[canuckamuck]

10 minutes ago, Credo said:

So, the left is responsible to make the right happy?   The people being victimized by the right's anger and violence deserve what they get?   

Making many of them right means killing or getting rid of all the Jews, gays, transgenders.   It means Blacks going at least as far back as the hind-half of the bus and maybe all the way back to the cotton field.   

 

Most of the right wingers, at least those on social issues, were never very happy.   

Tish tosh, 30 years ago was a fairly tolerant period with a lot of racial harmony. It has gone far downhill since then.

[attrayant]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

You put a lot of work into that response

 

It's a canned post I keep that, sadly, has to be updated every few months.  Now I have two new additions to make after the maga-bomber and the synagogue shooting a few hours ago.

 

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

For starters your list covers Obama's 2 full terms. Trump hasn't even had 2 years.

 

Your hypothesis is that outspoken liberal leaders and hyped events have been responsible for the cancerous growth in right-wing violence.  None of the events portrayed in your cartoon panel happened during the Obama administration, yet there was still incident after incident of right-wing bloodshed.  This effectively disproves your hypothesis.

 

Even if we tentatively accept your hypothesis, what is the implied solution to reducing the violence from the right; that liberals just shut up and learn to live with their oppression?  To hell with feminism - women should get back in their place (barefoot & pregnant) and gays back in the closet just so the alt-right can not feel threatened again?

 

In the USA, one should be able to speak out and act out in nonviolent ways without fear of violent reprisal.  The problem is not there there is an outspoken, motivated liberal faction. The problem is the disproportionate response to it from the alt-right.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

But the most important difference is your list is essentially a list of independent loonies who were thoroughly rejected and condemned by all society, for their violent acts. 

 

The subject of the cartoon is a list of pro violent incitements from major celebrities or politicians that were celebrated by their fan base and only got a slight, tut tut, from the media.

 

What makes these loonies independent?  They follow popular alt-right movements and cults that have many members.   Why wasn't Cathy Griffin independent?  Why wasn't James Hodgkinson independent?

 

And I don't see them being condemned by "all of society".  Coulter, Limbaugh and their ilk are still floating false-flag and other conspiracy theories even after the maga-bomber's capture, and these celebrities have loads of ardent followers.  Those who do loudly condemn such violence will likely be seen as uppity, aggressive liberal sympathizers and will eventually end up on the side of somebody's van with a cross-hairs superimposed over their likeness.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

The incidents you listed will continue in America because mental illness is still a major factor and America is so divided now because of mainstream media bias.

 

I'm glad to see you admitting a strong correlation to mental illness and right-wing violence.  There are a lot of people who disagree with you.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

There is likely a preponderance right wing conservatives in the type of incidents you listed because: Feminism, intersectionalism, the intense focus on race issues

 

It almost sounds like you're justifying the violence.   If there is feminism, then that is because many women feel aggrieved and are speaking out.  If there is an "intense focus on race issues", then that is because there are serious race issues that need to be focused on.  These issues haven't been artificially manufactured just to piss-off conservatives.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

the demonization of all things conservative by the vast majority of the media, the fight for open borders, the anti gun lobby, The LGBT lobby, Hollywood's attitudes, being labeled a Nazi, and a number of other things.

 

Again, whether or not somebody feels threatened by these movements does not justify murder and terrorism as a response.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

And when you try to change the values of such a large group of people, a percentage of them are going to get depressed and a number are going to feel threatened.

 

Nobody is trying to change the values of another person.  People want their different values to be seen as equally valid.  That's all.  Nobody is asking you to go out and have a gay marriage.  But you shouldn't be forcing your values on those who do.  And if you do, then it's YOU who are trying to change others' values.

 

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

So what is making the right wing angry.  The left.

 

Is it "the left" that's floating conspiracy theories like George Soros directing/funding the migrant caravan?  That is clearly an insane assertion but it's gaining currency and making the right wing angry.  Trump is fanning the flames by saying they're coming here to vote democratic, and that he's considering sending troops to the border and threatening to close the border, neither of which he will do.  His base eats this up with a spoon.

 

The left may be providing some fuel, but Trump is the one who threw a lit match on it.

 

That angry & violent response is irrational, which is why it's wrong.  Discuss, compromise, find common ground.  Don't expect everyone to live like it was 30 years ago just because that's what YOU want, because it's not 30 years ago any more.

[mikebike]

12 hours ago, riclag said:

judusbomber

You have used this a couple of times. What does it mean?

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Tish tosh, 30 years ago was a fairly tolerant period with a lot of racial harmony. It has gone far downhill since then.

5555... you will find that a number of LGBTQ and people of colour may disagree with your assessment...

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

 

It's a canned post I keep that, sadly, has to be updated every few months.  Now I have two new additions to make after the maga-bomber and the synagogue shooting a few hours ago.

 

 

 

Your hypothesis is that outspoken liberal leaders and hyped events have been responsible for the cancerous growth in right-wing violence.  None of the events portrayed in your cartoon panel happened during the Obama administration, yet there was still incident after incident of right-wing bloodshed.  This effectively disproves your hypothesis.

 

Even if we tentatively accept your hypothesis, what is the implied solution to reducing the violence from the right; that liberals just shut up and learn to live with their oppression?  To hell with feminism - women should get back in their place (barefoot & pregnant) and gays back in the closet just so the alt-right can not feel threatened again?

 

In the USA, one should be able to speak out and act out in nonviolent ways without fear of violent reprisal.  The problem is not there there is an outspoken, motivated liberal faction. The problem is the disproportionate response to it from the alt-right.

 

 

What makes these loonies independent?  They follow popular alt-right movements and cults that have many members.   Why wasn't Cathy Griffin independent?  Why wasn't James Hodgkinson independent?

 

And I don't see them being condemned by "all of society".  Coulter, Limbaugh and their ilk are still floating false-flag and other conspiracy theories even after the maga-bomber's capture, and these celebrities have loads of ardent followers.  Those who do loudly condemn such violence will likely be seen as uppity, aggressive liberal sympathizers and will eventually end up on the side of somebody's van with a cross-hairs superimposed over their likeness.

 

 

I'm glad to see you admitting a strong correlation to mental illness and right-wing violence.  There are a lot of people who disagree with you.

 

 

It almost sounds like you're justifying the violence.   If there is feminism, then that is because many women feel aggrieved and are speaking out.  If there is an "intense focus on race issues", then that is because there are serious race issues that need to be focused on.  These issues haven't been artificially manufactured just to piss-off conservatives.

 

 

Again, whether or not somebody feels threatened by these movements does not justify murder and terrorism as a response.

 

 

Nobody is trying to change the values of another person.  People want their different values to be seen as equally valid.  That's all.  Nobody is asking you to go out and have a gay marriage.  But you shouldn't be forcing your values on those who do.  And if you do, then it's YOU who are trying to change others' values.

 

 

Is it "the left" that's floating conspiracy theories like George Soros directing/funding the migrant caravan?  That is clearly an insane assertion but it's gaining currency and making the right wing angry.  Trump is fanning the flames by saying they're coming here to vote democratic, and that he's considering sending troops to the border and threatening to close the border, neither of which he will do.  His base eats this up with a spoon.

 

The left may be providing some fuel, but Trump is the one who threw a lit match on it.

 

That angry & violent response is irrational, which is why it's wrong.  Discuss, compromise, find common ground.  Don't expect everyone to live like it was 30 years ago just because that's what YOU want, because it's not 30 years ago any more.

I knew I was asking for a voluminous response, when I took the bait and responded to your post. As always your multi nested quotes are no fun to respond to in an orderly manner. I will pick a few however, but if you respond again with something similar to this last one I will only post TLDR.

Quote

Your hypothesis is that outspoken liberal leaders and hyped events have been responsible for the cancerous growth in right-wing violence.  None of the events portrayed in your cartoon panel happened during the Obama administration, yet there was still incident after incident of right-wing bloodshed.  This effectively disproves your hypothesis.

The left was not protesting Obama's presidency.  Should have been obvious to you.

Quote

Even if we tentatively accept your hypothesis, what is the implied solution to reducing the violence from the right; that liberals just shut up and learn to live with their oppression?  To hell with feminism - women should get back in their place (barefoot & pregnant) and gays back in the closet just so the alt-right can not feel threatened again?

That is silly hyperbole. The very vocal minority of women who identify as feminists need to back off their dystopian dreams of the future, but the gains they have made that have merit are appreciated by all. Gay rights is hardly a big deal these days. People are annoyed at the 500 gender, guess my pronoun circus however.

Quote

In the USA, one should be able to speak out and act out in nonviolent ways without fear of violent reprisal.  The problem is not there there is an outspoken, motivated liberal faction. The problem is the disproportionate response to it from the alt-right.

The left is not seeing its heritage and nation being threatened. The far left wants to burn it all down and that is scary to conservatives and people become violent when threatened. I am not condoning it, but humans are fairly predictable when pushed too far.

Quote

It almost sounds like you're justifying the violence.   If there is feminism, then that is because many women feel aggrieved and are speaking out.  If there is an "intense focus on race issues", then that is because there are serious race issues that need to be focused on.  These issues haven't been artificially manufactured just to piss-off conservatives.

Oooh a slight ad hominem angle.

Feminism was born out of a fight for equality. Now it is war against culture. Modern feminists are an anathema to the majority of modern women. Race issues are hot these days because of America's obsession with race. The left is responsible for keeping this issue burning bright. The left is massively racist.

 

OK that is all I feel like replying to. There are other things you got wrong, but your wall of text has been given enough attention.

Edited October 28, 2018 by canuckamuck

[canuckamuck]

21 minutes ago, mikebike said:

5555... you will find that a number of LGBTQ and people of colour may disagree with your assessment...

They liked it better than the 50's and were probably happier then than they are now when they are told daily how much they are oppressed.

[attrayant]

34 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The left was not protesting Obama's presidency.  Should have been obvious to you.

 

Exactly my point.  You cite aggressive lefty protesting as the thing that angers the right wing.  The left was not protesting during the Obama presidency (your own words), so why all the violence?

 

(that was less than 35 words... hopefully I did not exceed your attention span this time)

 

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by attrayant

[KKr]

On 10/27/2018 at 8:53 AM, klauskunkel said:

give me one example of the greatest thing you do, just one...

Step down as a President, be it after 2 or , worst case, 6 years.

[helpisgood]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

They liked it better than the 50's and were probably happier then than they are now when they are told daily how much they are oppressed.

 

I think MIkebike has a point.  

 

Unless you are a person of color, maybe more so an African-American in the USA, and/or you are LGBTQ, you should not make any statements about being "happier" or about how oppressed you are/were during any period of time.  Unless you walk in their shoes, you cannot possibly understand the pain that they have gone through and continue to go through merely due to their said identity.  

 

I'm not going to even bother looking this up, but I seem to recall a lot of horrific violence against African-Americans in the 1950s.  I am also sure that it was not easy being an LGBTQ person, unless maybe you were in one of the very few communities that they dominated in.  Also, weren't gay bars being raided back then by the NYC police, etc. and the legal system was skewed against them?   

 

Again, I am not going to even bother to research this.  It is too obvious.  Besides, you should not pretend to be able to gauge their pain and the measure of their oppression unless you are one of them.

Edited October 28, 2018 by helpisgood
typo

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about the illegal immigrant caravan in Mexico have been removed. 

[Morch]

15 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Traditional does suit my politics.

 

By all means, deflect. The comment, though, was with regard to the time frame applied. What does "traditional" cover or specify, exactly? Whether you like it or not, times do change. Notable as the Founding Fathers concepts and notions were, some of their ways and ideas would be frowned upon today. Same goes for slavery, segregation, sufferance and whatnot. There were some calling but but but "traditional" at each and every junction. And you know how that panned out. In all cases.

 

Countries, societies and traditions are not static. That said, I can understand the antagonism with regard to change - especially when the pace picks up, and certain things seem to be rammed through. But, on the other hand, I feel that the reactionary response is mostly contrived - choosing to hype up negatives and ignoring the country's history and legacy.

[Morch]

15 hours ago, riclag said:

I

 

This judusbomber has a long history of looking for attention.One sick individual! Events made that individual angry and it acted out the same way it has in the past !  It will fit in nicely with other inmates it appears!  I don't see PT changing or the millions of followers for change!    

 

That's a nice story. You seem to have a rare insight as to the inner working of the supposed psycho's mind, there. Not that any of this got to do with the post you responded to, obviously. That one was about the priorities speedily in your previous comment - apparently possibly effecting your side's election prospects takes precedence to the willingness to commit violence on political grounds, or to the risk for lives involved.

[Ron19]

Off topic post removed.

[mtls2005]

Bomb suspect Cesar Sayoc found father figure in Trump, says family lawyer

 

Cesar Sayoc, the suspect accused of sending mail bombs to 14 Democratic political figures, “found a father in Donald Trump,” says a family attorney.

 

“This was someone lost,” attorney Ron Lowy told CNN host Anderson Cooper Friday night. “(It’s) my opinion that he was attracted to the Trump formula of reaching out, Trump reaching out to those types of outsiders, people who are angry at America, telling them they have a place at the table, telling them that it’s OK to get angry.”

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-cesar-sayoc-father-figure-20181026-story.html

 

[canuckamuck]

4 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

Exactly my point.  You cite aggressive lefty protesting as the thing that angers the right wing.  The left was not protesting during the Obama presidency (your own words), so why all the violence?

 

(that was less than 35 words... hopefully I did not exceed your attention span this time)

 

 

I appreciate the brevity, thank you.  Violence seeking anti president protests are a feature of the Trump era is just an extra level of irritation. I have already mentioned, and of course you already know the other issues that stoke the discord. Anyhow we are far from my point, which is, Trump is not making the right angry. Trump is making the left angry, and that should be obvious by the amount of people who get beat up or thrown out for wearing MAGA hats.

[JestSetter]

This man who attempted to kill left-leaning figures is an outlier for sure, but so is Trump and his behaviour of antagonizing people and encouraging that they be abused. There are many examples of this in his speech and tweets. I have never heard or seen Obama do this. And while there are rare occasions of left-leaning figures urging people to defend themselves, it is clear that Trump's urging his fans at rallies to beat the shit off the Democrats is having an impact. Is the attack on the synagogue another example of Trump's anti-Semitic right wingers going nuts? (Please do not comment on this as my post will be removed for causing others to go off-topic.) I am just making a link to support the thesis. 

 

The bigger question about this individual is why he is so antagonistic towards the left-leaning party? According to this article, he was a body-builder who might have been shooting himself with steroids. 

Yes, Trump is one of the causes, but there are many. This 56 year old man was working in a pizza restaurant as a delivery man and used to work as a male dancer (https://www.foxnews.com/us/package-bomb-suspect-told-colleagues-everything-that-wasnt-white-didnt-belong-in-the-world-former-boss). He is 56. That is not what a man who is 56 should be doing. He portrayed himself or perhaps was some kind of a manager, recruiter, choreographer for a male stripper place. Is this the type of work that one is supposed to have at 56? He declared to his boss that, in effect, he was a white-supremacist. He had worked as a bouncer who might have done steroids (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/27/politics/cesar-sayoc-mail-bomb-suspect/index.html). So, he was on drugs. These affect the brain. He had some college education. It looks like he got beaten by the 2008 crash and lost his home in 2012. He is not an outlier. There must be many people like him getting part-time, low-paying jobs. The real US unemployment rate is not 4% or so and has not been for a decade now, but there is not a day when you are told that the economy is doing well, that there is a record setting low 4% unemployment rate. It look it is more like 20% according to many websites (https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2018/03/08/make-believe-america-why-the-us-unemployment-rate-doesnt-indicate-economic-recovery/). (Please do not debate this as your post will be deemed off-topic and removed, This person has written a whole book on the topic and supported it with evidence. There are many websites with credible evidence that the situation is not as great as it is made to be. In fact, Trump did use the 18 to 20% numbers in his campaign.) Records show that this guy threatened to bomb a utility company and stole some pipes from a store around 2000. Was he falling behind in his payments? His life had turned bad. It is hard to make ends meet in the USA and it has been for a decade, even under Obama. Democrats do lie too Both parties, on economic policies, are serving the corporations that help them get elected. How many banksters have gone in jail under the Democrats and the Republicans? De-regulations of corporations has been happening for decades now, under all parties, including Clinton. Why have banks been allowed from 1999 on to invest money when this was a cause of the major crash in the 1920's (The glass-Steagall Act)? What is the real unemployment rate for people like this guy. It looks like he got beaten by the 2008 crash and lost his home in 2012. Trump does not look like a normal Conservative and he could have perceived the Democrats as unhelpful considering his bankruptcy. That could cause a person (any person) to go mad, become irrational, vote for Trump, who promises a lot. It would not take much for him to go rogue and try to defend his cherished leader who has --ironically--shown no mercy. I think it is worth studying this individual to see what caused the underlying problems. He might be the canary in the coal mine. I think Trump and him are just symptoms of larger more fundamental problems that are plaguing the American system.

 

PS: Do not debate the elements that I broach in this post. These elements attempt to demonstrate that this man's attempt at bombing have many causes. Yes, he is a Trump supporter and, yes, Trump might have pushed him over the edge, but things are never so simple.

Edited October 28, 2018 by JestSetter

[canuckamuck]

3 hours ago, helpisgood said:

 

I think MIkebike has a point.  

 

Unless you are a person of color, maybe more so an African-American in the USA, and/or you are LGBTQ, you should not make any statements about being "happier" or about how oppressed you are/were during any period of time.  Unless you walk in their shoes, you cannot possibly understand the pain that they have gone through and continue to go through merely due to their said identity.  

 

I'm not going to even bother looking this up, but I seem to recall a lot of horrific violence against African-Americans in the 1950s.  I am also sure that it was not easy being an LGBTQ person, unless maybe you were in one of the very few communities that they dominated in.  Also, weren't gay bars being raided back then by the NYC police, etc. and the legal system was skewed against them?   

 

Again, I am not going to even bother to research this.  It is too obvious.  Besides, you should not pretend to be able to gauge their pain and the measure of their oppression unless you are one of them.

I think you misunderstand. My opinion is that 30 years ago America seemed closer to racial harmony than they are today. I do not think the 50's were better for minorities. I was saying the 30 years ago was better than now, and better than the 50's too, in regards to race issues. It has never been really good in America though. America is way behind the rest of the western world on moving past racism.

[pikao]

On 10/27/2018 at 5:07 AM, rooster59 said:

Each consisted of explosive material packed in a plastic pipe and wired to a small clock and a battery, Wray said.

All the bombs were intercepted before reaching their intended targets and without exploding, and no one has been hurt.

Thats what I´m asking myself. Why would someone send bombs to people where he can be 100% sure that none would get to it´s addressee, before beeing examinated??...and the small clock?? Does US Post deliver at the exact minute....second?? Or is there an other reason for the setup of the bombs?? (I´m not an expert in explosives)

Just reminds me of a number of incidents seen in the last 17 years

[attrayant]

13 minutes ago, pikao said:

Thats what I´m asking myself. Why would someone send bombs to people where he can be 100% sure that none would get to it´s addressee, before beeing examinated??

 

How do you know he was 100% sure of that?  Maybe he's just bad at making bombs.  If he got his designs off the Internet, which is what was reported, then I would expect that he's a total amateur and his efforts to flop.  His efforts at bomb-making, that is.  His efforts at terrorizing were effective.

[pikao]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

How do you know he was 100% sure of that?

I agree. There´s no such as a 100% certainty...maybe "most likely" would be correct. And who was effective at terrorizing whom? I find it very hard to believe in the official versions of these stories