Americans opening bank accounts in Thailand

[watcharacters]

 

I had occasion to ask about this very recently.     I had gone into Kasikorn Bank to request a letter for immigration to verify I had the required 800K THB on deposit.    I was denied the letter because I didn't have the passbook for a fixed  deposit account in an Issan KBank branch.  I rightly claimed I was never given a passbook for the account.   I only had a receipt for the deposit.    The bank clerk/officer clearly looked at me as if I was a complete liar.   It was only when I told her the purpose of opening the account was simply  to get a credit card issued to me.    Then it dawned on her  the passbook must be at the Issan branch itself.   She was correct.    I asked her to call the branch and confirm which she did.    Thank goodness I thought to get confirmation including the name of the person with whom she spoke.  Heck, I didn't even use the darn card a single time.

 

Things went downhill  from there  (too long a story to write)  but I finally managed to secure that passbook.

 

My question is this?     I asked the helpful and friendly  lady if I could open an additional account at K Bank.   Her co-worker confirmed i could not open another account with the bank.       I wonder what exactly is the extra reporting a bank must do for Americans to cause some bank managers to flee  at the sight of an American customer?     Do they need to do hours of extra work or just check off a few boxes on a form?

 

I drove eight hours to the Issan KBank branch  where my passbook was stored for all these years.   When there I asked If I could, with just my passport and residence certificate and cash, open an additional account.     Absolutely yes was the reply.

 

I asked again at a KBank in Northern Pattaya.    Certainly you can I was told.

 

At the KBank on Soi2 Jomtiem, minutes from immigration, they say they will not open a new account at least for Americans

 

What burden do the banks have with Americans opening and maintaining accounts in Thailand?

[NCC1701A]

all the paper work the IRS requires from the banks.  the forms are all in English and they have no clue what it is. do you remember filling it out at  the time you opened your account?

 

and it is not just Thailand.

14 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 I wonder what exactly is the extra reporting a bank must do for Americans

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by NCC1701A

[watcharacters]

13 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

all the paper work the IRS requires from the banks.  the forms are all in English and they have no clue what it is. do you remember filling it out at  the time you opened your account?

 

and it is not just Thailand.

 

 

Appreciate the reply but I'm still unclear if they just need to fill our a single page  which could be boiler plated for all branches or if  it's actually a lot of serious work.    

 

Clueless is a poor excuse for inability to perform IMHO.     

 

I found nothing in my Google search to answer this.     Maybe I'll try to ask the bank manager.

[NCC1701A]

10 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Appreciate the reply but I'm still unclear if they just need to fill our a single page  which could be boiler plated for all branches or if  it's actually a lot of serious work.    

 

Clueless is a poor excuse for inability to perform IMHO.     

 

I found nothing in my Google search to answer this.     Maybe I'll try to ask the bank manager.

this is why:

 

"FATCA—the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act—is America’s global disclosure law. It penalizes foreign banks if they don’t hand over Americans. The vast majority of foreign countries and their banks comply, so don’t count on bank secrecy anywhere. On top of FATCA, the U.S. has a treasure trove of data from 50,000 voluntary disclosures, whistleblowers, banks under investigation and cooperative witnesses. So the smart money suggests resolving your issues. You can have money and investments anywhere in the world as long as you disclose them."

 

why would you want to be a part of this it you are a bank? especially in Thailand where they don't speak English, don't know what to do and think rules are meant to be broken.

 

At Bangkok Bank it was clear they had no idea what all these IRS forms were for. They were happy that I was able to fill out the forms for them and I gave my all important Tax Payer Id number also known as your social security number.

 

ON A DIFFERENT BUT RELATED SUBJECT:

 

U.S. persons with foreign bank accounts exceeding $10,000 in the aggregate at any time during the year must file an FBAR—now rebranded as a FinCEN Form 114—by each June 30. Tax return and FBAR violations are dealt with harshly. Tax evasion can mean five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Filing a false return? Three years and a $250,000 fine.

Failing to file FBARs can be criminal too. Fines can be up to $500,000 and prison can be up to ten years. Even civil FBAR cases are scary, with non-willful violations drawing a $10,000 fine. For willful FBAR violations, the penalty is the greater of $100,000 or 50% of the amount in the account for each violation. Each year you didn’t file is a separate violation. Those numbers can add up fast and easily be much worse than the 27.5% penalty that generally applies under the IRS Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program.

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by NCC1701A

[Pib]

Plenty of Americans have Kbank accounts..   When an American opens an account at a Thai bank they will also need to fill out one or two bank-specific docs related to FATCA.  I've seen quite a few posts that this FATCA related form gets presented even to non-American farangs, and such non-American farangs check the block that I'm not an American...form done.

 

Heck, I'm American and in the last 3 years or so I've opened 3 accounts  at Krungsri and Bangkok Banks here in the Bangkok area....each one had me fill out a couple of short and sweet FATCA forms which is mostly just entering our address, social security number, really basic stuff and signing it.  

 

I expect the OP has just been unfortunate in going into some branches that are not exactly expat-friendly....no desire for a new farang customer like we'll seen in about a zillion posts on ThaiVisa over the years.  And some branches just use the "oh you are American...FATCA excuse" simply because they don't really want any farang customers...be you American or not.

[Kerryd]

You could just open another account at the branch where you picked up your bank book, especially as they don't seem to have a problem about it. It doesn't really matter what branch you open an account in.

 

But if for some reason you want your account in a branch that is more convenient - you can simply have the other account (or all of them) transferred to the branch you prefer.

 

In my experience (with different Bangkok Bank branches) they are more than happy to transfer your accounts from other branches to whichever one you prefer as then your money is on "their books" and the more accounts/assets they can show, the better it looks for that branch (and the better their chances of getting promotions and pay raises).

 

I've been contact by staff that did get promotions and transfers, who wanted me to transfer my accounts to the branch they were now working in so that it would look like they were good at increasing that branches's assets. It was a bit annoying as I had transferred my accounts to the branch near my home so it was more convenient and I really wasn't interested in moving them to a new branch on the other side of the city.

(In my case the convenience factor came in from having to renew Fixed Term deposits every couple of months as they kept offering terms that were 7 or 11 months long and each time one term ended, you literally had to open a new account, transfer the money from the old one, then close the old account. Real pain in the posterior.)

As noted by NCC1701A, Americans are subject to some different rules (as a result of American Legislation) which can cause headaches for the branches if they don't keep on top of things and do the paperwork. Some branches may be more aware of the requirement (and headaches) than others who may not have had to deal with such things.
Yet.

You could also consider opening an account in a different bank altogether as well.

[GalaxyMan]

It will vary from bank to bank and from branch to branch, depending upon how well trained they are and how much English they understand. It's easier for them to just say no when they are embarrassed at not understanding. I had no problems at all opening an account at CIMB-Thai. The only thing extra was the social security form for the USSA.

[Mavideol]

22 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

this is why:

 

"FATCA—the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act—is America’s global disclosure law. It penalizes foreign banks if they don’t hand over Americans. The vast majority of foreign countries and their banks comply, so don’t count on bank secrecy anywhere. On top of FATCA, the U.S. has a treasure trove of data from 50,000 voluntary disclosures, whistleblowers, banks under investigation and cooperative witnesses. So the smart money suggests resolving your issues. You can have money and investments anywhere in the world as long as you disclose them."

 

why would you want to be a part of this it you are a bank? especially in Thailand where they don't speak English, don't know what to do and think rules are meant to be broken.

 

At Bangkok Bank it was clear they had no idea what all these IRS forms were for. They were happy that I was able to fill out the forms for them and I gave my all important Tax Payer Id number also known as your social security number.

 

ON A DIFFERENT BUT RELATED SUBJECT:

 

U.S. persons with foreign bank accounts exceeding $10,000 in the aggregate at any time during the year must file an FBAR—now rebranded as a FinCEN Form 114—by each June 30. Tax return and FBAR violations are dealt with harshly. Tax evasion can mean five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. Filing a false return? Three years and a $250,000 fine.

Failing to file FBARs can be criminal too. Fines can be up to $500,000 and prison can be up to ten years. Even civil FBAR cases are scary, with non-willful violations drawing a $10,000 fine. For willful FBAR violations, the penalty is the greater of $100,000 or 50% of the amount in the account for each violation. Each year you didn’t file is a separate violation. Those numbers can add up fast and easily be much worse than the 27.5% penalty that generally applies under the IRS Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program.

 

heard that one before, Thai's don't want the extra paper work and extra fillings, that was Bangkok Bank saying to me as well

[Pib]

50 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

It will vary from bank to bank and from branch to branch, depending upon how well trained they are and how much English they understand. It's easier for them to just say no when they are embarrassed at not understanding. I had no problems at all opening an account at CIMB-Thai. The only thing extra was the social security form for the USSA.

 

Regarding the the Social Security number, a person can run into some branches will want to make a copy of your SS card....they may not want to take your word for it that you know your SS number/you've had it memorized durn near since birth/you entered the correct SS number on the forms because the SS number is critical for FATCA reporting/compliance purposes.

 

I've seen a few posts of other Americans who experienced this and personally saw it happen at a Bangkok Bank branch here in Bangkok when I took a neighbor who is dual US-Thai citizen to open a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account.   

 

The bank rep got insistent on wanting to see and copy the SS card to help confirm the person was using her real SS number.  Now she didn't have her social security card in hand, but did have a printout of a social security statement that had her social security number on it.  The bank rep finally accepted that as proof/confirmation she was using the correct SS number.

 

Now when I signed up for my accounts they never asked to see my social security card; they just accepted the SS number I entered on the form was correct and mine.

 

 

[Pedrogaz]

It is FACTA. Bangkok Bank does open bank accounts for US citizens. I have my social security paid in there....it is the only bank that the SS will allow as they are fully compliant with US law. I let the SS payments build up so there is always 800000 baht in there for immigration.

I have an account at Kasikorn as well and I find them a much easier bank to deal with. As you noted they give you credits cards and as far as I am aware are the only bank to do so. If you have a Wisdom credit card from them you get free access to business lunges at Suvarnabhumi and priority queuing in the bak.

[DrPhibes]

Be glad your not trying to open an account in Switzerland as a US citizen or green card holder.  Two higher end clients almost could not find a bank that would take them despite going to work there due to FATCA.

[MyFriend You]

On 10/31/2018 at 7:20 AM, NCC1701A said:

all the paper work the IRS requires from the banks.  the forms are all in English and they have no clue what it is. do you remember filling it out at  the time you opened your account?

 

and it is not just Thailand.

 

My branch is on Wireless road, I was asked to fill out one form, one form, a very long time ago, and haven't heard a peep out of them or the IRS yet, I regularly transfer between 2-6 Thousand $$ a month from an equity account.  Been doing this for 10 years and - again, not a peep out of them.

 

14 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

It is FACTA. Bangkok Bank does open bank accounts for US citizens. I have my social security paid in there....it is the only bank that the SS will allow as they are fully compliant with US law. I let the SS payments build up so there is always 800000 baht in there for immigration.

I have an account at Kasikorn as well and I find them a much easier bank to deal with. As you noted they give you credits cards and as far as I am aware are the only bank to do so. If you have a Wisdom credit card from them you get free access to business lunges at Suvarnabhumi and priority queuing in the bak.

Same Same here.............finally some true advice to the poster.

[USNret]

I opened a Post Office Savings Account in Japan this year.  They had about 3 forms for me to fill out, then the brought out the FACTA form from the U.S. IRS.  It was very simple.  Basically, name, address, tax ID number.  It was the easiest of all the forms.  All I can think is that it has taken on some sort of mythic status in Thailand and has been elevated to gargantuan proportions.

Of course, that's just to sign up for the account.  Who knows what sort of annual reporting comes along with it once the account is set up.  Knowing IRS, it's probably a huge PITA and probably changes each year. They probably have to have someone on staff just to keep up with the changing rules out of America or forever be banned from dollar deposits on the world market.  To them, it's not worth the risk.

[watcharacters]

On 11/1/2018 at 2:14 PM, DrPhibes said:

Be glad your not trying to open an account in Switzerland as a US citizen or green card holder.  Two higher end clients almost could not find a bank that would take them despite going to work there due to FATCA.

 

I think the USA is trying to prevent/discourage Americans from using accounts in countries   that allow for such secrecy in banking as to evade taxes.

 

 

[watcharacters]

On 11/2/2018 at 5:57 AM, USNret said:

They probably have to have someone on staff just to keep up with the changing rules out of America or forever be banned from dollar deposits on the world market.  To them, it's not worth the risk.

Or maybe they just can't afford the cost?  

 

From the net:   

"2. Kasikorn Bank
Formerly known as the Thai Farmers Bank, its total assets amount to US$ 70.8 billion. Established on June 8, 1945, the bank offers consumer banking, commercial banking, and corporate banking services among others.

Kasikorn is the 4th largest commercial bank in the country in terms of total assets, loans, and deposits. They were also the first bank in the country to offer credit card services back in 1973. In 2011, the bank was the first in the world to offer a secured system of payment via the use of mobile phones. They were also the first in the country to become an escrow agent for house buyers and sellers.

 

Today, there are 1,054 Kasikorn branches in Thailand, 9,460 ATM machines, and 5 international branches."

 

**************

**********

 

But you're right a few years back I received  at my address on file a letter from KasikornBank about  FBAR reporting.    The letter had a number to call at KBank if I had any questions.    I called the number and was told the "person" I needed to speak with was not in the office.   I asked if there was anyone else who could answer a question about a form sent from KasikornBank.    You can guess the results.   A mega corporation had one person in all of Thailand who could deal with what should have been a simple matter and naturally that person failed to even return the call as requested and there was no reply to my email.

 

CALL it luck of the draw.    Your mileage may vary depending on circumstances.

 

P.S.    The agent I use said a close by Bangkok Bank  was very accommodating to the opening  of accounts for Americans.   Just as with Immigration it all depends on the local  office, the time of day, the  current weather conditions, the last meal the officer ate and who  let that stinky fart. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by watcharacters

[mahjongguy]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:49 PM, NCC1701A said:

U.S. persons with foreign bank accounts exceeding $10,000 in the aggregate at any time during the year must file an FBAR—now rebranded as a FinCEN Form 114—by each June 30.

UPDATE: The FinCEN 114 due date is now April 15, same as your 1040. But:

" To implement the statute with minimal burden, FinCEN will grant filers failing to meet the FBAR annual due date of April 15 an automatic extension to October 15 each year. "

 

This is the same date for the more recent FATCA form which is required for those whose total overseas accounts AND investments exceed US$50k (or US$200k, depending on your circumstances). 

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by mahjongguy

[Pib]

7 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

I think the USA is trying to prevent/discourage Americans from using accounts in countries   that allow for such secrecy in banking as to evade taxes.

FACTA/FBAR is just another tool Uncle Sam uses in trying to catch those that don't report dividend/interest/taxable type assets on their tax returns.  Uncle Sam wants taxes due him.  Have all the accounts you want in other countries...just report that you have them if having over $10K in them and pay any taxes due from earned interest/dividends/etc...and Uncle is happy.

[Scottjouro]

On 11/3/2018 at 6:22 AM, watcharacters said:

 

I think the USA is trying to prevent/discourage Americans from using accounts in countries   that allow for such secrecy in banking as to evade taxes.

 

 

The likes of Citibank in Singapore will not even look at a US citizen as regards opening an account unless said US citizen is a Singapore work pass holder or PR etc...ie a proper legal presence there, they said its just too much hassle 

[Scottjouro]

On 11/1/2018 at 7:31 AM, Mavideol said:

heard that one before, Thai's don't want the extra paper work and extra fillings, that was Bangkok Bank saying to me as well

Either do the Singaporians working for US banks such as Citibank in Singapore...so why single out "Thai'"

 

the most advanced banking sector in the world ie Singapore dont want to do it  either and will not do the extra paperwork or the fillings, except in very specific circumstances 

 

 

[Mavideol]

4 minutes ago, Scottjouro said:

Either do the Singaporians working for US banks such as Citibank in Singapore...so why single out "Thai'"

 

the most advanced banking sector in the world ie Singapore dont want to do it  either and will not do the extra paperwork or the fillings, except in very specific circumstances 

 

 

sorry to disagree but have account at citi singapore and dbs as well and none gave me trouble, they do all fillings, maybe I am a lucky one LOL

[ozmeldo]

K Bank

 

Useless

 

In fact, you wait in line forever for them to be useless.

 

I had to have the acct for a school I'd worked at. If it ever happens again I will ask for cash or just not work there.

 

[Scottjouro]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

sorry to disagree but have account at citi singapore and dbs as well and none gave me trouble, they do all fillings, maybe I am a lucky one LOL

Well i have referred US citizen collegues to Citi and in all 3 cases they were refused account opening...also see below Citi IPB T&C multiple references to not availible to US citizens 

 

 

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

On 11/5/2018 at 8:06 PM, Scottjouro said:

Well i have referred US citizen collegues to Citi and in all 3 cases they were refused account opening...also see below Citi IPB T&C multiple references to not availible to US citizens 

In my opinion not being able to open a Citi account was really a favor to them.  Citi Bank is like Thai Immigration, each countries franchise holder is a law on to themselves, not to mention their outrageous on deposit amount in order to access any of their "services".  It used to be a minimum of $100,000 for their premier account, and even a regular savings account here in Thailand required a minimum balance of 100,000 THB

 

Many better options than shitty bank