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Trudeau's dilemma - how to be tough on Saudi Arabia and save jobs

By Allison Martell

 

FILE PHOTO: Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau meets with Director-General of the World Trade Organization (WTO) Roberto Azevedo (not pictured) on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, October 24, 2018. REUTERS/Chris Wattie

 

LONDON, Ontario (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau faces a dilemma as an election approaches - how to credibly clamp down on Saudi Arabia over its human rights record while sparing a $13 billion (£10 billion) weapons deal with Riyadh.

 

Trudeau, who has promised "consequences" for the Oct. 2 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, is under pressure to freeze an already unpopular $13 billion contract for armoured vehicles built in Canada by U.S.-based General Dynamics.

 

The problem is that the deal underpins 3,000 jobs in the small city of London, Ontario, a recovering manufacturing centre and a likely battleground in next year's general election.

 

The debate over the deal is worrying to members of Trudeau's ruling Liberal Party, including Peter Fragiskatos, the lawmaker from the London North Centre parliamentary constituency.

 

"A lot of jobs depend on this contract," Fragiskatos said in an interview, noting Trudeau has visited the city several times and "understands very well the challenges that London has faced. I am advocating very strongly for my community."

 

A source directly familiar with official thinking said "we don't want to lose those jobs", but added it was also important for Canada to take a stand when human rights are violated.

 

"Canada is committed to upholding human rights, freedom of expression and the protection of journalists around the world," Trudeau said last week.

 

Trudeau said Ottawa would review its export permits to Saudi Arabia in response to the death of Khashoggi, whose murder in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul has been condemned worldwide.

 

On Thursday, Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland reiterated that Ottawa was ready to suspend export permits for weapons if it was proven they had been misused.

 

"We are really considering carefully the appropriateness of arms sales as we continue to seek full transparency" in the Khashoggi affair, Freeland told reporters on a conference call.

 

Export permits that have already been issued are being respected, a government official said. That should spare General Dynamics any immediate impact.

 

A 2016 document from the foreign ministry shows the firm had already received approval for C$11 billion worth of exports.

 

As for further penalties, the official said Canada was carrying out a "comprehensive review of our relationship with Saudi Arabia".

 

In recent years, Trudeau has cast himself and his government as standard-bearers for progressive values at a time when the United States is withdrawing from the global stage under President Donald Trump.

 

Canada is particularly sensitive to Khashoggi's murder. Riyadh severed diplomatic ties after the Canadian embassy sent a Twitter message in August demanding the release of jailed activists.

 

Trudeau backed Freeland after the tweet and the two have been generally aligned on Khashoggi's murder. But asked last week why Ottawa would go ahead with the arms deal, Freeland replied it was "a very good question" and declined to be more specific.

 

Trudeau has said scrapping the deal would cost "billions" in penalties.

 

Opposition critics and human rights groups say that if Trudeau is serious about standing up for human rights, he should cancel the deal.

 

Other nations are also grappling with how to send a strong message to the oil producer about its need to respect human rights while limiting the economic impact.

 

Germany halted new weapons sales to Riyadh, and Chancellor Angela Merkel is pushing for the rest of the European Union to adopt a similar position. Berlin is also reviewing sales that have already been approved.

 

But in Britain, the second-largest exporter of arms to Saudi Arabia after the United States, the government has repeatedly rejected calls to end weapons sales.

 

"There are jobs in the UK ... at stake so when it comes to the issue of arms sales we have our procedures," Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt told lawmakers on Wednesday.

 

CRUCIAL TO LIBERALS

London's newly elected mayor Ed Holder, a former Conservative minister who helped found the Canada Saudi Business Council and led a trade delegation to the kingdom in 2016, said the contract should not be cancelled.

 

"I've been in contact with the federal government about that and I'm advised that they don't intend to cancel the contract," he said in a radio interview after his Oct. 22 election.

 

The political fallout of scrapping the deal could be significant. The Liberals control two of London's four seats and have a narrow, 12-seat parliamentary majority heading into a re-election campaign for a vote due by Oct. 21, 2019.

 

The Liberals, at 36 percent, are just one point ahead of the Conservatives, with the left-leaning New Democrats, who say the Saudi military contract should be scrapped, are at 20 percent, according to the latest opinion poll by Ipsos Public Affairs polling company.

 

Canada shipped C$166.9 million worth of armoured vehicles and parts to Saudi Arabia in July, trade statistics show.

 

"We are continuing to build that vehicle on schedule, and we see no indication that contract has changed," General Dynamics Chief Executive Phebe Novakovic said on a conference call last week. "Steady as she goes."

 

(Reporting by Allison Martell; additional reporting by Steve Scherer and David Ljunggren in Ottawa and Guy Faulconbridge in London; Editing by Susan Thomas and Grant McCool)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-02

[blazes]

"Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland reiterated that Ottawa was ready to suspend export permits for weapons if it was proven they had been misused."

 

If it was proven they had been misused????  Well, they are presumably used to bomb the sh!te out of thousands and thousands of Yemeni men, women and children.

 

So, not misused then....

 

[manarak]

Realpolitik is the word he is looking for...

[GroveHillWanderer]

21 minutes ago, blazes said:

"Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland reiterated that Ottawa was ready to suspend export permits for weapons if it was proven they had been misused."

 

If it was proven they had been misused????  Well, they are presumably used to bomb the sh!te out of thousands and thousands of Yemeni men, women and children.

 

So, not misused then....

 

I'm not in favour of arms sales to Saudi Arabia but just to be factual, the contract being referred to here is for armoured vehicles. They're not something that could be used to drop bombs on Yemenis and so far, the Saudis have not used ground troops in the conflict.

[GroveHillWanderer]

25 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Oh dear, the politically correct infant has to make a tough decision. LOL

At least he's actually debating the merits of it, instead of just blindly stating that the deal is worth too much money to be reconsidered and then lying abut how many jobs are involved, like Trump.

 

Trump claims he thinks that "over a million" new jobs will be created, however the actual figure given by Lockheed Martin, who are actually involved in the contract is around 1,000 new jobs - with support for about 40,000 existing jobs.

 

Saudi arms deal may create few new US jobs

Edited November 2, 2018 by GroveHillWanderer

[mikebike]

40 minutes ago, blazes said:

"Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland reiterated that Ottawa was ready to suspend export permits for weapons if it was proven they had been misused."

 

If it was proven they had been misused????  Well, they are presumably used to bomb the sh!te out of thousands and thousands of Yemeni men, women and children.

 

So, not misused then....

 

Armoured vehicles aren’t known to be bomb delivery vehicles.

[Psimbo]

42 minutes ago, blazes said:

"Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland reiterated that Ottawa was ready to suspend export permits for weapons if it was proven they had been misused."

 

If it was proven they had been misused????  Well, they are presumably used to bomb the sh!te out of thousands and thousands of Yemeni men, women and children.

 

So, not misused then....

 

How does an armoured vehicle bomb people? This is a contract for 900 armoured vehicles, not rockets, bombs, etc. Have a look at LAV-III, which is the vehicle in question

 

I suggest you turn your venom towards the US and the UK which supply both bombs, missiles and the means to deliver them (aircraft). 

[Psimbo]

5 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Armoured vehicles aren’t known to be bomb delivery vehicles.

Beat me to it- I was in mid-froth!

[blazes]

To be honest, I had no idea the Canadian ar$e was so well covered. Only armoured vehicles, eh?

No possible use for warlike purposes, then?  Conscience clean. Drive on, my good man.....

 

[IAMHERE]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

At least he's actually debating the merits of it, instead of just blindly stating that the deal is worth too much money to be reconsidered and then lying abut how many jobs are involved, like Trump.

 

Trump claims he thinks that "over a million" new jobs will be created, however the actual figure given by Lockheed Martin, who are actually involved in the contract is around 1,000 new jobs - with support for about 40,000 existing jobs.

 

Saudi arms deal may create few new US jobs

Yep, it is definitely Trumps fault. Blame Trump and everyone else is home free. 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, blazes said:

To be honest, I had no idea the Canadian ar$e was so well covered. Only armoured vehicles, eh?

No possible use for warlike purposes, then?  Conscience clean. Drive on, my good man.....

 

Yes you are most definitely correct. Armoured personnel carriers are the exact same type of military equipment as bombs, rockets, launchers and drones. How could we have missed that?

[Sir Dude]

How on earth will Justin square this dilemma for all peoplekind? Might just have to be pragmatic Monsieur and then fall gallantly on your sword in the inevitable memoirs after you exit office. That'll work.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

At least he's actually debating the merits of it, instead of just blindly stating that the deal is worth too much money to be reconsidered and then lying abut how many jobs are involved, like Trump.

 

Trump claims he thinks that "over a million" new jobs will be created, however the actual figure given by Lockheed Martin, who are actually involved in the contract is around 1,000 new jobs - with support for about 40,000 existing jobs.

 

Saudi arms deal may create few new US jobs

Compared to other politicians, he's a giant.

[Becker]

3 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Oh dear, the politically correct infant has to make a tough decision. LOL

And he's not getting any help from the moral retard south of the border.

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Yep, it is definitely Trumps fault. Blame Trump and everyone else is home free. 

Where and in what way does anything I say blame Trump for the Canadian or US arms deals? What I am doing however, is comparing and contrasting Trump's and Trudeaus's reactions to the moral dilemma posed by their respective countries' arms deals with the Saudis.

[mikebike]

19 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Nice Anti Trump diversion.

"Diversion"? I think you meant "comparison". 55555555!!!

[samran]

6 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Oh dear, the politically correct infant has to make a tough decision. LOL

Must be a tough day at the office for the TV tub thumpers.

 

Who to beat up on? The mussies or the liberals?

 

Looks like they've sided with the embassy stranglers.

 

ps...love your new avatar. But what happened to your crusader one? Isn't that what all you blokes use?

[mikebike]

39 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

New avatar?

If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest that you take some English Composition courses - as opposed to adopting the style of the myriad Anti Trumpers. Hint - study these:

https://www.google.ca/search?num=100&newwindow=1&source=hp&ei=bQzcW6_pI6GevQSL85jYDg&q=argumentum+ad+hominem&oq=argument+ad&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i10k1l2j0l2j0i10k1l4j0j0i10k1.1049.18935.0.22463.11.9.0.2.2.0.1167.3105.0j3j0j2j2j7-1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.10.3129...0i131k1.0.56trJLTeFEw

 

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=hgzcW8PeMIeb8QXw_IVg&q=argumentum+ad+populum&oq=argumentum+ad+hominem&gs_l=psy-ab.1.7.0i71k1l8.0.0.0.30678.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.k5QypANKa88

 

 

How cute. You think a random forum is a formal debating venue. 55555555.

[samran]

48 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

New avatar?

If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest that you take some English Composition courses - as opposed to adopting the style of the myriad Anti Trumpers. Hint - study these:

https://www.google.ca/search?num=100&newwindow=1&source=hp&ei=bQzcW6_pI6GevQSL85jYDg&q=argumentum+ad+hominem&oq=argument+ad&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i10k1l2j0l2j0i10k1l4j0j0i10k1.1049.18935.0.22463.11.9.0.2.2.0.1167.3105.0j3j0j2j2j7-1.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.10.3129...0i131k1.0.56trJLTeFEw

 

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=hgzcW8PeMIeb8QXw_IVg&q=argumentum+ad+populum&oq=argumentum+ad+hominem&gs_l=psy-ab.1.7.0i71k1l8.0.0.0.30678.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.k5QypANKa88

 

 

Oh deary! The grammar police have arrived. Poor petal likes his apostrophes and sentences just so.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by samran

[Ulic]

The silver spoon, politically correct pretty boy is way-way over his head. 

[mikebike]

5 minutes ago, Ulic said:

The silver spoon, politically correct pretty boy is way-way over his head. 

Were you expecting a destitute, foul-mouthed troll to be head of state? ????

[JimmyTheMook]

Does this Canadian Man Child shave his vag before big important decisions like this?

[samran]

2 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

LOL

Thanks professor - is sms-speak now accepted Oxford debating technique?

[samran]

1 hour ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Does this Canadian Man Child shave his vag before big important decisions like this?

Hea got no worries on the ‘vag’ front He’s had more in his life that you could ever hope for. 

[JimmyTheMook]

44 minutes ago, samran said:

Hea got no worries on the ‘vag’ front He’s had more in his life that you could ever hope for. 

 

I spent 20 years in Thailand, more gals than Canada is letting sneak over their borders.

 

M'kay

 

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

41 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

He wanted to make not addressing a transsexual by his/her preferred gender a crime in Canada.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately lying, or just incapable of understanding the difference between addressing someone and discriminating against them. 

 

He did support an amendment to an existing statute (which was already passed) to include transgender people in the groups that may not be discriminated against or subjected to hate speech based solely on them belonging to that group. That's not the same thing.

 

Some people have indeed tried to present this as meaning that people could be sent to jail simply for using the wrong gender pronoun but that's not what the statute says.

Edited November 2, 2018 by GroveHillWanderer

[Morch]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

Were you expecting a destitute, foul-mouthed troll to be head of state? ????

 

Kinda depressing these are the made-up choices....

[Morch]

1 hour ago, samran said:

Hea got no worries on the ‘vag’ front He’s had more in his life that you could ever hope for. 

 

First-hand knowledge?

[pegman]

4 hours ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Does this Canadian Man Child shave his vag before big important decisions like this?

This is the type of talk conservatives in Canada use to use then this happened?

That wasn't a Trump like WWE performance. Real blood not ketchup.

 

Short of war, committed to contracts should be fulfilled. Like Germany there should be no new sales. Canada showed who had the brass ones when we alone called out the Saudi Thug for jailing activists last summer. The draft dodger pussy south of us went unusually silent. 

The latest Nanos poll has Young Justin's Liberals over the Tories by 11 points. With MadMax's new party gaining speed that margin will only increase, 

 

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, pegman said:

This is the type of talk conservatives in Canada use to use then this happened?

That wasn't a Trump like WWE performance. Real blood not ketchup.

 

Short of war, committed to contracts should be fulfilled. Like Germany there should be no new sales. Canada showed who had the brass ones when we alone called out the Saudi Thug for jailing activists last summer. The draft dodger pussy south of us went unusually silent. 

The latest Nanos poll has Young Justin's Liberals over the Tories by 11 points. With MadMax's new party gaining speed that margin will only increase, 

 

https://www.voiceonline.com/liberals-maintain-10-point-lead-over-conservatives-nanos-weekly-poll/