Fearing 'angry mob', lawyer of freed Christian woman leaves Pakistan

[brewsterbudgen]

Haven't noticed many Christians bombing, beheading and deliberately driving vehicles into pedestrians on the streets of London, or anywhere else you have mentioned. The same goes for Buddhists, Hindus, etc. This seems to be an almost exclusively Islamist pastime.
Nothing game changing, either, about the pressure constantly being exerted on the UN to approve human rights (sic) provisions against blaspheming the Prophet and his medieval ideology. Imran Kahn is the latest advocate to swing the bat for the Islamic side. And there was us mug Westerners thinking what a civilised chap he was in his well-pressed whites. . . 

August 30th, 2018

Imran Khan, the newly elected Prime Minister of Pakistan, has made curtailing freedom of speech a priority policy for his administration by vowing to revive a campaign to impose global blasphemy laws at the UN. - Humanism UK.

You might want to read up about the atrocities committed by Buddhists in Myanmar and Christians in DRC and some other African countries. It's very naive to think that it's only extreme Islamists who do such things.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

The British government should offer this woman and her family sanctuary. We still have some residual responsibility and it would show these people that we still occupy the moral high ground.

 

(do a swap with that chap that is getting released in the UK)

[sweatalot]

12 hours ago, sweatalot said:

what a shithole of country

 

- if there's some good in this country they should definitely solve the muslim problem

I have to add

I am sorry for those who have to live there and whose hearts and brains have not been killed

and for those little children who have no choice to be brain- and heartkilled

Edited November 4, 2018 by sweatalot

[Tongjaw]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

 It is as much a religion of peace as Christianity is a religion of peace in "peace" loving christian countries such as the US ,the UK , France  etc.

As far as the UN comment is concerned, I was not aware that there was pressure for the UN to enact "world wide" blasphemy laws , or for that matter any laws whatsoever. 

A link pointing  to such a game changing event would be appreciated. 

Try a little bit of google searching and you will see the OIC campaigned for it from 1998 till 2011. Now Imran Khan is trying to get in on the act. 

[Tongjaw]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The British government should offer this woman and her family sanctuary. We still have some residual responsibility and it would show these people that we still occupy the moral high ground.

 

(do a swap with that chap that is getting released in the UK)

France and Spain have offered the family asylum but her husband wants UK, USA or Canada. Maybe they have better handouts than the other 2 countries. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Tongjaw said:

Try a little bit of google searching and you will see the OIC campaigned for it from 1998 till 2011. Now Imran Khan is trying to get in on the act. 

I don't dispute that different organisations and or country leaders campaign in support of pet  resolutions,  regardless of their success none of it constitutes "world wide law" 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

No not in the streets of London, but plenty of bombing in the street of Baghdad, and other Muslim countries. Not very Christian of them . 

I am in no way defending the Pakistanis but we are no angels ourselves, simply a litle more sophisticated about it.

Non binding resolutions are hardly "world wide laws" by any stretch of the imagination. and respect for religion hardly blasphemy laws. As far as leaders making speeches to their base, nothing new there , look at Trump.

Thank you for that link,

non binding resolutions respecting religion are neither "world wide laws " and not even blasphemy resolutions. Many countries have laws in their books  protecting people's right to exercise their religion in dignity. The moron who killed all the Jews in Pittsburgh among other things was charged with 11 counts of obstructing free exercise of religious beliefs. last night a man as arrested writing anti semitic slurs in a synagogue  among which  were slurs defaming  the jewish religion,  among other things he was charged with hate speech, and not blastemy. 

   

 

As for your first comment, were many (or any) of the bombings you mention ("in the street of Baghdad, and other Muslim countries") carried out in the name of Christianity? Unless there was "Onward Christian soldiers" sung, the relevance would be questionable. And, "we" might not be angels, but that's hardly the point - "we" seemed to have passed the social evolutionary phase of running crusades, jihads or executing people for holding different religious beliefs, or.

 

With regard to the link I've posted - wasn't commenting on the accuracy of the poster's words, just seemed this might have been what he had in mind. The motions described weren't successful, as such, but the efforts detailed highlight the sort of thinking (or beliefs) involved.

 

[Tongjaw]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I don't dispute that different organisations and or country leaders campaign in support of pet  resolutions,  regardless of their success none of it constitutes "world wide law" 

My reply to you was that they had been campaigning the UN to make it world wide for years but got shut down. Nothing to say they won’t try again though. 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

"we" seemed to have passed the social evolutionary phase of running crusades, jihads or executing people for holding different religious beliefs, or.

I agree, 

It is my opinion that if they were allowed to evolve much in the way we did they would reach the same development. Initially there would be a lot of pain as there was in our development but eventually reasonable minds will prevail as it did in our development , unless you are of the opinion that muslim minds are less reasonable in the aggregate  than ours.

and they would own any such development rather than feel it was imposed on them

IMO it is our constant medling that straightens the hand of the extremist element. 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Tongjaw said:

My reply to you was that they had been campaigning the UN to make it world wide for years but got shut down. Nothing to say they won’t try again though. 

I don't disagree with you at all 

My original reply was in response to some world wide law imposed by the UN against blasphemy,clearly there is no such a thing.  

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

You might want to read up about the atrocities committed by Buddhists in Myanmar and Christians in DRC and some other African countries. It's very naive to think that it's only extreme Islamists who do such things.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It has nothing to do with being naive. You are not comparing like with like. Many countries have historically suffered internal ethnic and religious conflict. Mayanmar is an obvious example of Muslim/Buddhist strife, as is Thailand.  The most glaring example is the ongoing all-Muslim heavyweight contest in the Middle East which is at the root of the current refugee crisis.

 

This is a totally different phenomenon from the wave of Islamic terrorism unleashed upon the West in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, which initially which killed more than 3,000 people in Twin Towers and is still claiming victims nearly two decades later, with Europe a major casualty.

 

Since 2004, Islamic terror attacks have cost the EU about 185 billion Euros in lost GDP and around 5.6 billion in lost lives, injuries and damage to infrastructure. To these sums must be added the cost of accommodating thousands of refugees displaced from Syria and other war-torn countries across the Levant.

 

Acts of terrorism across the region by other, non-Islamic outfits are negligible by comparison.

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/06/eu_admits_jihadist_terrorism_has_cost_economy_hundreds_of_billions.html

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I agree, 

It is my opinion that if they were allowed to evolve much in the way we did they would reach the same development. Initially there would be a lot of pain as there was in our development but eventually reasonable minds will prevail as it did in our development , unless you are of the opinion that muslim minds are less reasonable in the aggregate  than ours.

and they would own any such development rather than feel it was imposed on them

IMO it is our constant medling that straightens the hand of the extremist element. 

 

I think that the time frame involved in such processes makes the argument academic. As for your optimism with regard to the supposed outcome - I'll have to disagree. Not as in rejecting the possibility of such an outcome, but rather the assertion that it is inevitable or likely. Things in the West involved as they did due to a host of contributing factors and circumstances. The set of factors/circumstances relevant to your proposition is different. This take doesn't have anything to do with "Muslim minds", might as well not start with such nonsense.

 

Couldn't care less as to whether they'd "own" such a development. If it would come about, we'll all be long gone anyway. Question is more about how much damage will be done by then. And to be clear, the same can be referred when discussing Christianity - the World was re-shaped several times before the light was seen, so to speak. 

 

The "constant meddling" explanation (along with the "colonialism" self-flagellation bit) is just a cop-out. Sure that there's a contribution, making it into the main issue though - no, thanks. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Morch

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, Tongjaw said:

France and Spain have offered the family asylum but her husband wants UK, USA or Canada. Maybe they have better handouts than the other 2 countries. 

may be they have some knowledge of the English language but not of French or Spanish

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

The British government should offer this woman and her family sanctuary. We still have some residual responsibility and it would show these people that we still occupy the moral high ground.

 

(do a swap with that chap that is getting released in the UK)

You must mean Anjem Choudary, ISIS recruiter and Islamist activist released half way through his five-year jail sentence. Because he has British citizenship he cannot alas, be deported or swapped for anyone. He is adjudged such a danger to society that he is being kept under constant suerveillance - at a cost to the UK taxpayers of two million pounds a year.

 

Who was it said the law was an ass?

[poanoi]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I agree, 

It is my opinion that if they were allowed to evolve much in the way we did they would reach the same development. Initially there would be a lot of pain as there was in our development but eventually reasonable minds will prevail as it did in our development , unless you are of the opinion that muslim minds are less reasonable in the aggregate  than ours.

and they would own any such development rather than feel it was imposed on them

IMO it is our constant medling that straightens the hand of the extremist element. 

it was the 30 years war that ravaged the european continent and killed off half the german speaking population that caused the west

to moderate their view on religious differences

Edited November 4, 2018 by poanoi

[sirineou]

28 minutes ago, poanoi said:

it was the 30 years war that ravaged the european continent and killed off half the german speaking population that caused the west

to moderate their view on religious differences

and it was the ottoman threat that strengthened the hand of the catholic church as the defender of the faith.  

[poanoi]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and it was the ottoman threat that strengthened the hand of the catholic church as the defender of the faith.  

a bunch of hooligans that didnt give a shit who they looted IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIs5B2U7US0

[Sir Swagman]

Banning all religions and then deprogramming the deluded masses might be a good start....

 

[Cereal]

Religion is the problem, and when the laws of a country are based on non-secular views death and destruction will surely follow.

[Krataiboy]

Although Islam is practiced differently from country to country, seeking to modify or reform its basic tenets is a Herculean task, as these are derived directly from what Allah is believed have dictated to the Prophet Muhammed - and therefore generally regarded by the faithful as immutable and unchanging.

 

The resurgence in recent decades of Islamist and fundamentalist Muslim factions makes the prospects for reform look even more remote. It has also ushered in a return to an ultra-orthodox brand of Islam which is anathema to the post-Enlightenment culture of the West, with its emphasis on democracy, man-made laws and individual freedom.

 

A useful insight the campaign to create a more "moderate" Islam comes from Muslim activist Majid Nawaz and the London-based think-tank Quilliam he helped create to "promote plurism and inspire change" among fellow Muslimsin his adopted homeland and across the world.

 

Quilliam's struggle is a form of  "jihad" worthy of everyone's support in nations like the UK, where the Islamic population is set to double - or even triple - by 2050. Should it fail, the bleak prospect is for an ongoing clash of cultures and an inevitable increase in factional strife and extremist terrorism.

 

Majid Nawaz's numerous broadcasts can be found on YouTube and Quilliam at https://www.quilliaminternational.com

Edited November 5, 2018 by Krataiboy

[norfolkc]

The Religion of peace strikes again 

[xylophone]

36 minutes ago, norfolkc said:

The Religion of peace strikes again 

Below are a number of actual passages or words from the Quran, not interpretations, but as they are written and I find it extremely difficult to support the argument that Islam is a religion of peace given that there are many, many more like this.

 

As if to support this, Muhammad, the prophet of Islam (and supposedly peace) had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women, and children. Also Muhammad said in many places that he has been "ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger."  In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.

 

Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. He directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands. All this from a “religion of peace??”

 

Actual passages from the Quran…..

 

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

 

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

 

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

 

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

 

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

 

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.

 

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

 

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions."

 

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers).

 

HARDLY A RELIGION OF PEACE by anyone's standards or imagination.