Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[Gandtee]

26 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

I am gonna sum this cow man gai thing up.

 

You go to a cow man gai street food stall. You order cow man gai. I dish come out with a bunch of dark chicken meat, but you do not care for dark meat. 

 

Now, you can point and grunt and that is great. But in Thai words how do you tell him you only want white chicken breast? Saying "white" in thai does not work, I will tell you that right now. I got some good advice once and you can say "my ow nang". This seems to help, but it really is not perfect as it means without skin. 

 

What does all this mean? What am I rambling on about? I am getting up there, I do not have the patience to learn a language anymore where it isn't exceedingly easy to say "I want chicken breast". My bad, I know that, but that is my answer to the original question. I have to study Thai for a decade just to efficiently say "chicken breast", THAT is why i personally do not know more Thai. 

I would suggest that if you copy the picture of Cow man gai on this thread to your camera if you have one, and show it to your vendor. Mee mai krup? If the answer is Mai mee, well hard luck. The vendor may point you to where you may buy it though. Here endeth the first lesson.???? 

[marcusarelus]

14 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

Try what? I am all ears. Are you saying ordering "cow man gai" will result in only white chicken breast being served in Thailand, 100% of the time? 

If you order cow men gai and they give it to you with dark meat hand it back and say, "yak see cow cup or ka depending on your gender orientation."  Chicken breast is, "Oak Gai"

Edited November 6, 2018 by marcusarelus

[direction BANGKOK]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

If you order cow men gai and they give it to you with dark meat hand it back and say, "yak see cow cup or ka depending on your gender orientation."  Chicken breast is, "Oak Gai"

A couple of points here. First, thank you. I have copied your post to my Thai notes which have had varying success. 

 

Second, I believe you are about the fourth knowledgeable Thai speaker, the others it was their native language, who has instructed me on how to order this way, all with different phrases and words interestingly enough. That does not mean yours is wrong of course! But, it does bolster my original point that if learning "i want chicken breast" in Thai can be this complicated, why the hell would i bother? I much prefer a continued regiment of pointing and grunting, which has the added benefit that it seems to go well with the Isaan dialects. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by direction BANGKOK

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, direction BANGKOK said:

Not true, at least as far as i know. No association of the adjective "white" in "cow man gai". 

rice cooked in chicken fat is what I make of 'cow man gai' (rice fat chicken)

What goes with it ...... up to you.

[owl sees all]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

If you order cow men gai and they give it to you with dark meat hand it back and say, "yak see cow cup or ka depending on your gender orientation."  Chicken breast is, "Oak Gai"

It is getting close to Xmas. So, how would you say "turkey breast on a stick please"?

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

It is getting close to Xmas. So, how would you say "turkey breast on a stick please"?

ok gai ngoo-wang tort kap

[CharlieH]

Guys, there is too much "thai language" translation etc creeping in here and its starting to derail into a translation thread.

Back to the topic please.

 

 

[nausea]

They live in English speaking environments, if you need to learn Thai to survive, you will learn it. Apart from those naturally gifted, why on earth would anyone learn Thai if they didn't need to. Their culture is borrowed, and English, Spanish, French, Mandarin, Japanese, German, Pali or even Latin, are far more valuable culturally. Personally, I strive to increase my English language skills, I fail miserably, but French and Latin, and a little bit of German, are useful. The last thing I need is to fall backwards by understanding the nuances of Thsi slang.

[Puwa]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Try it.  Results guaranteed.  Unless you are a fluent Thai speaker how do you have the audacity to contradict me?

I have the audacity. Some cringeworthy misunderstandings here. I'll start with the chicken. "Kow-man" refers to the preparation of the rice, which is steamed in chicken broth (literally, "oily rice"). That's why it has the oily texture and great taste. You can customize your order by specifying that you want your chicken skinless, or don't want the congealed blood on the side, or the liver, or a combination of steamed and fried chicken if available. 

 

Next, no one refers to northern Thai language as "Lanna," except in reference to the old orthography, the Lanna script. The language is "kam muang," spoken by "kon muang"-- how northerners refer to themselves. Muang refers to the old kingdom as defined by the influence of the governing city. Kon muang means people of the kingdom, kam muang literally means "words of the kingdom." As to the assertion that no one speaks only northern Thai, villages in the north are filled with old-timers who only speak kam muang. Depending on who their neighbors are, they may know other regional languages, like various forms of Karen, known as bwak'nyawklo. (Karieng, by the way, is a pejorative term for Karen. The proper term in Thai is byagayaw.)

Edited November 6, 2018 by Puwa

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, Puwa said:

I have the audacity. Some cringeworthy misunderstandings here. I'll start with the chicken. "Kow-man" refers to the preparation of the rice, which is steamed in chicken broth (literally, "oily rice"). That's why it has the oily texture and great taste. You can customize your order by specifying that you want your chicken skinless, or don't want the congealed blood on the side, or the liver, or a combination of steamed and fried chicken if available. 

 

Next, no one refers to northern Thai language as "Lanna," except in reference to the old orthography, the Lanna script. The language is "kam muang," spoken by "kon muang"-- how northerners refer to themselves. Muang refers to the old kingdom as defined by the influence of the governing city. Kon muang means people of the kingdom, kam muang literally means "words of the kingdom." As to the assertion that no one speaks only northern Thai, villages in the north are filled with old-timers who only speak kam muang. Depending on who their neighbors are, they may know other regional languages, like various forms of Karen, known as bwak'nyawklo. (Karieng, by the way, is a pejorative term for Karen. The proper term in Thai is byagayaw.)

What did you contradict?  I bet you don't know.  So go back and look it up.  Still it serves no purpose as the thread is about, "Why are expats so bad in Thai?"  I tried to help a guy order some food the way he liked it.  My intention was pure and only intended to help and foster peace and tranquility in Thailand. 

 

The person who asked my advice told me it was incorrect without trial and based on a lack of knowledge.

 

I think his post and yours are good examples of why expats are so bad in Thai.  Him for not wanting anyone to really answer his question as it was not really a question but a commentary on Thais being less smart than he and you for not wanting to answer the topic of this thread because you wanted to demonstrate your superiority of linguistic knowledge. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Personally I started to learn Thai 2 1/2 years ago and was keen as mustard using Learn Thai from a White Guy , High Speed Thai and Thai Pod 101.
But I struggled to progress and decided to have a break and let the little I had learnt to be put into practice.
Plus, my gf speaks passable English so I concentrated on improving her language skills ( at her request ).

So, now I should be getting back onto studying Thai, but, I’ve become complacent and am happy with the way things are right now.

Sooo, to answer the OP’s question, in my case it is laziness [emoji20]

[Puwa]

 

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

What did you contradict?  I bet you don't know.  So go back and look it up. 

 

<removed>

 

Anyway, having engaged with you, I can answer the original question of why expats are bad at Thai: 1) arrogance (how dare you contradict me!); 2) embarrassment (quick! change the topic); 3) resentment of expats who do know the language (you're just showing off). 

[CharlieH]

Off topic removed.

[melvinmelvin]

43 minutes ago, Puwa said:

 

<removed>

 

Anyway, having engaged with you, I can answer the original question of why expats are bad at Thai: 1) arrogance (how dare you contradict me!); 2) embarrassment (quick! change the topic); 3) resentment of expats who do know the language (you're just showing off). 

thats a comment I understand fine little of 

[ExpatDraco]

There is English, and then there is English.
 
I disagree. This is why most foreign (EU) people who think they can speak English are actually terrible at all the finer points.
 
English is an incredibly diverse language, full of nuance and best of all, the ability to say something without actually saying it: sarcasm (especially) confounds (and frustrates) every foreign speaker I have met - no matter their status in life.
 
Don't want to even start talking about comedy, or sense of humor...

Wait... UK English vs US English vs OZ English? [emoji28]

[Tweedle dee]

9 hours ago, ExpatDraco said:

Wait... UK English vs US English vs OZ English?

Fair dinkum cobber ????

[Tweedle dee]

I may stand corrected  but i think our German buddy's seem to get there 'heads' round the language much easier.

[HAKAPALITA]

When you can speak Thai its still difficult to find common ground for a conversation.

[andre47]

55 minutes ago, Tweedle dee said:

I may stand corrected  but i think our German buddy's seem to get there 'heads' round the language much easier.

I don't think so. It is all about motivation and discipline. If you want you can do too. ????

 

[BobbyL]

49 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

When you can speak Thai its still difficult to find common ground for a conversation.

Very good point.

 

I think realistically I am never going to befriend many Thais. My wife's family seem to chat about food (which I can be part of) or the absolute gash on TV (which I want no part of). 

[bangsaenguy]

Why English? Do I not recall that Thailand's self appointed PM state that in a few years that the Thai language would be the most widely spoken language in the world? I think I read that on this forum

[Tweedle dee]

4 hours ago, andre47 said:

I don't think so. It is all about motivation and discipline. If you want you can do too. ????

 

I arrived Chiang mai 14 years ago stayed 2 years and started to learn a bit BUT most Thais up there wanted to chat in English...i then moved down to Rangsit and they had different tones then after 2 years there i move to a county called Prasat a satellite town Surin province...guess what, they didnt understand a word i had learned other than sawasdee krub no way was i going to get my head around 3 + styles ..i know enough to eat and drink and its staying that way.????

Edited November 7, 2018 by Tweedle dee

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Tweedle dee said:

I arrived Chiang mai 14 years ago stayed 2 years and started to learn a bit BUT most Thais up there wanted to chat in English...i then moved down to Rangsit and they had different tones then after 2 years there i move to a county called Prasat a satellite town Surin province...guess what, they didnt understand a word i had learned other than sawasdee krub no way was i going to get my head around 3 + styles ..i know enough to eat and drink and its staying that way.????

you've already done lanna and central, now you are in laos land

Khmer could be useful in Prasat, get on with it

 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, bangsaenguy said:

Why English? Do I not recall that Thailand's self appointed PM state that in a few years that the Thai language would be the most widely spoken language in the world? I think I read that on this forum

Not what he said.  You old?  Happens.  Short term memory goes first. 

[seancbk]

19 hours ago, direction BANGKOK said:

19 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

If you go to a food stall that sells "cow man gai" and ask for it that is what they will give you.  If they don't then either that isn't one of their dishes or you are saying it very wrong.

I suspect you are trying to order from a vendor that doesn't actually do that specific dish.   

That is not it. Maybe some folks are skipping words above. This is about not being able to order white chicken breasts at times. 

 

I am talking about stalls that only serve cow man gai. 

 

If you are at a stall only serving Cow Man Gai then why are you having a problem getting white chicken breast?  That should be all they sell, unless you are at a strange Cow man gai stand.

 

Chicken breast is 'Ock Gai'   Try saying that.  

The Thai for 'white meat' is about 7 words long and I'm not sure it only refers to Chicken.

 

[Tweedle dee]

27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you've already done lanna and central, now you are in laos land

Khmer could be useful in Prasat, get on with it

 

I dont eat bettle nut and still have most of my teeth, i have NO chance ey ! ???? TD.

[andre47]

33 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you've already done lanna and central, now you are in laos land

Khmer could be useful in Prasat, get on with it

 

Not Laos....now he is in Khmer land (Cambodia). Lao is very similar to Isaan language/dialect.

 

[cmsally]

21 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I lived in CM for 3 years with a number of women from Bangkok who all spoke Issan/Lao.  They had no trouble being understood in Chiang Mai and Northern Thailand.  How much of a problem is it?  I remember a few different words , yip baht for 20 and got instead of delat.  Some minor things but never had a large problem communicating like you make it out to be. 

I speak Lanna and central Thai, but find it hard to understand pure Isan / Lao dialects. Mostly for the both to communicate there has to be some central Thai thrown in. Not many people around now who speak pure Lanna.

20bt is still used a lot which is sao baht

[richard_smith237]

This is turning into one of those... 'Do you put N2 in your tires?' threads !!!!! (some will know what I mean)....

 

Really, some guys are having this much difficulty ordering a simple plate of Hiananese style Chicken & Rice ?? - there is only one 'chicken-rice' dish in Thailand under this context. 

 

k̄ĥāwmạn kị̀..... or pronounced 'Khao-man-Kgai'.... If you are getting dark meat when ordering this the reason why is simply - you are eating at a sh!7-hole.

 

This is generally 'street food' sold from a cart or at a shop front - you can see what you are ordering...  its not rocket science to establish whether or not the chicken meat is white breast or not - you can usually see it. 

 

 

I've got to wonder how difficult is the rest life is for some guys... Every day must be a whole new adventure, the trials and tribulations of living in a foreign country for the simple minded or something.... 

 

More so on topic - much of the issues encountered (such as above) are perhaps not one of language, but of common sense.

 

Language can help so much, but common sense in any country is a greater advantage when adopting to and interpreting your surroundings... developing conversational language skills comes a very close second to the essential nature of common sense, but adds a level of 'icing to the cake' with the experience of being in a foreign country that can not be suprased by said commonsense.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tweedle dee]

2 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I speak Lanna and central Thai, but find it hard to understand pure Isan / Lao dialects. Mostly for the both to communicate there has to be some central Thai thrown in. Not many people around now who speak pure Lanna.

20bt is still used a lot which is sao baht

Try yisip or for total knuckle heads i will spell it yeesip for 20.  WANNA FIGHT !  grrrrrrr.