Downtown Bangkok’s Boom Seems Unstoppable

[webfact]

Downtown Bangkok’s Boom Seems Unstoppable

The city has been touted as having some of the best values for luxury real estate globally

BY JENNIFER WANG 

 

Bangkok, the world’s most visited city from 2015 to 2017 according to Mastercard’s Global Destination Cities Index, is often touted as a place where luxury living can be had for a relative bargain. It’s no wonder then, that the luxury condominium market in Thailand’s capital city is booming, with prices steadily rising and no end in sight.

 

Last year, Thai developer Sansiri made headlines with the launch of 98 Wireless. The ultra-luxury building boasts 77 units offered at a (locally) record-breaking TBH550,000 (US$17,040) per square meter, each featuring brand-name appliances and furnishings, private elevators, imported white-oak herringbone floors, rare mahogany doors and handpicked Italian marble.

 

Amenities are equally lavish: a dedicated butler for every two floors, a Bentley limousine service, concierge services provided by world-renowned Quintessentially. And all this for a relatively affordable US$17,040 per square meter—a fraction of similar offerings in Hong Kong, where Christie’s International Real Estate reports the average price per square meter hovers around US$52,740.

 

Full story: https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/downtown-bangkok-s-boom-seems-unstoppable-112855

 

-- MANSION GLOBAL 2018-11-05

[Juan B Tong]

It's the boom-boom in Bangkok that's unstoppable!

Edited November 5, 2018 by Juan B Tong

[3NUMBAS]

the crash will come soon just as before and is right now in auss

[guest879]

half the world is now in an asset boom fueled by artificially low interest rates. like someone else said Australia is probably the most primed to bust. was just talking to a friend of mine who lost 4% off the value of his aussie super fund this week alone. almost half the home owners there have less than 20% equity in their own homes.  the next bust will be considerably bigger than 2008 going by the level of leverage and price to earning ratios. Bangkok may not be so exposed but I doubt it will be completely immune.

[pacovl46]

Well, the rising sea levels will put a stop to that within the next 20 years. Bangkok is already 1.5 meters below sea level and it continues to sink at about 3 centimeters per year, due to the fact that the ground beneath it is essentially a swamp combined with groundwater being pumped out.

 

In as early as 2030 Bangkok could be flooded. The only way to circumvent it would be building a dam around Bangkok and along the shore of the Chao Praya river. This would be roughly 550 kilometers of dam including the suburbs. I honestly doubt that they’ll be able to build that dam within that time frame. Just acquiring the land to build it would probably already take that long.

 

So, to all the home owners in Bangkok, now is the time to sell and relocate to the sea up on a hill 80 meters above sea level or up north.

Edited November 5, 2018 by pacovl46
Typo

[blackhorse]

I remember 13 years ago when I bought my off the plan 10 th floor, 80 sqm condo half way between Asoke and Nana bts for sub 5 million and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy real estate you will lose 50 % immediately blah blah.
I look around now and see the insane prices and crazy rents around lower Sukhumvit and glad I didn't listen

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, the rising sea levels will put a stop to that within the next 20 years. Bangkok is already 1.5 meters below sea level and it continues to sink at about 3 centimeters per year, due to the fact that the ground beneath it is essentially a swamp combined with groundwater being pumped out.

 

In as early as 2030 Bangkok could be flooded.

 

 

If the various predictions for BKK come to pass, the city will indeed return to being the true "Venice of the East."

 

As for the "luxury" part, maybe if one stays inside their high-rise condo 24/7 and never ventures outside. But assuming the owner does go outside, they'll find all the same things that the rest of us mere BKK mortals have to deal with....

 

Broken, cluttered sidewalks, gridlocked street traffic, blaring whistles, motorcycles and other ear rattling vehicles with no mufflers, air pollution, dubious health and cleanliness standards, lousy customer service in many venues, etc etc.  Money can shield you from all those things only to a certain extent.

 

[blackhorse]

 
If the various predictions for BKK come to pass, the city will indeed return to being the true "Venice of the East."
 
As for the "luxury" part, maybe if one stays inside their high-rise condo 24/7 and never ventures outside. But assuming the owner does go outside, they'll find all the same things that the rest of us mere BKK mortals have to deal with....
 
Broken, cluttered sidewalks, gridlocked street traffic, blaring whistles, motorcycles and other ear rattling vehicles with no mufflers, air pollution, dubious health and cleanliness standards, lousy customer service in many venues, etc etc.  Money can shield you from all those things only to a certain extent.
 

So why are you here? And in BKK of all places. It's a genuine question. Surely you could rent cheaper in Hua hin where it's nice and quite?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 
If the various predictions for BKK come to pass, the city will indeed return to being the true "Venice of the East."
 
As for the "luxury" part, maybe if one stays inside their high-rise condo 24/7 and never ventures outside. But assuming the owner does go outside, they'll find all the same things that the rest of us mere BKK mortals have to deal with....
 
Broken, cluttered sidewalks, gridlocked street traffic, blaring whistles, motorcycles and other ear rattling vehicles with no mufflers, air pollution, dubious health and cleanliness standards, lousy customer service in many venues, etc etc.  Money can shield you from all those things only to a certain extent.
 

So why are you here? And in BKK of all places. It's a genuine question. Surely you could rent cheaper in Hua hin where it's nice and quite?

 

I wanted a place where I could rely on public transit and didn't need to keep / use a car. I wanted a place with better hospitals and other facilities. I wanted a place close to the international airports, my Embassy, etc. etc.  And these days, I wanted a place where my wife can earn a better living than she could upcountry.  That's just a short list.

 

I have a comfortable life at home in a rare quiet area of BKK. I tend to stay close to home and/or central areas accessible via BTS. Plus the farang supermarket choices and range of shopping options are better here than elsewhere.

 

I didn't come to Thailand or BKK expecting luxury or thinking that by buying an overpriced condo that I'd somehow get it. So my expectations and my reality are reasonably in sync.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[theguyfromanotherforum]

35 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

I remember 13 years ago when I bought my off the plan 10 th floor, 80 sqm condo half way between Asoke and Nana bts for sub 5 million and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy real estate you will lose 50 % immediately blah blah.
I look around now and see the insane prices and crazy rents around lower Sukhumvit and glad I didn't listen

 

How much is it worth now?

 

BTW, what is Bangkok downtown? I was always under the impression that Bangkok doesn't really have downtown, just different sections that are more developed. I guess these days the argument could be made that it is where the major BTS link is which would be Siam?

[blackhorse]

 
I wanted a place where I could rely on public transit and didn't need to keep / use a car. I wanted a place with better hospitals and other facilities. I wanted a place close to the international airports, my Embassy, etc. etc.  And these days, I wanted a place where my wife can earn a better living than she could upcountry.  That's just a short list.
 
I have a comfortable life at home in a rare quiet area of BKK. I tend to stay close to home and/or central areas accessible via BTS. Plus the farang supermarket choices and range of shopping options are better here than elsewhere.
 
I didn't come to Thailand or BKK expecting luxury or thinking that by buying an overpriced condo that I'd somehow get it. So my expectations and my reality are reasonably in sync.
 
 

Well this post is certainly different to your previous. Your actually talking BKK up [emoji115] now.
You think it's overpriced now just wait until the Chinese move up a gear.
Sadly most farang have now priced themselves out of the market by believing the nonsense on tv . Waiting for the baht to implode and the bubble to burst has been an extremely expensive mistake!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Well this post is certainly different to your previous. Your actually talking BKK up now.
You think it's overpriced now just wait until the Chinese move up a gear.
Sadly most farang have now priced themselves out of the market by believing the nonsense on tv . Waiting for the baht to implode and the bubble to burst has been an extremely expensive mistake!!

 

No, I was just explaining in response to your question why I chose BKK vs various upcountry options like Hua Hin. Thus I have my personal reasons that make BKK a better choice for me than some other Thailand location options.  That said, though, it's hardly a city that strikes me as a "luxury" kind of place, high-priced condos notwithstanding.

 

Here's a good example of that. I'm acquainted with someone who works with one of the absolutely richest families in Thailand, the very upper end of the Forbes scale. That family has mansions and a compound in BKK. But guess what they were shopping for lately -- a very high ground clearance SUV type vehicle.

 

Why? Because despite their ridiculous wealth and their mansions, when it rains too much in BKK or the government mismanages flood control as they're prone to do, the access to their mansions tends to be cut off by high floor waters. Thus the need for something to traverse the floods.  In my book, those kinds of realities even for the richest of the rich don't make what I consider to be a luxury city.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

I don't know how much is sold but it seems a big part of the new condominiums are not occupied.

Just looking at the lights at night many places are dark, all the time.

I am no property specialist but somehow that does not look healthy to me.

[likerdup1]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Why? Because despite their ridiculous wealth and their mansions, when it rains too much in BKK or the government mismanages flood control as they're prone to do, the access to their mansions tends to be cut off by high floor waters. Thus the need for something to traverse the floods.  In my book, those kinds of realities even for the richest of the rich don't make what I consider to be a luxury city.

 

With this kind of growth I can't see how they are able to sustain the infrastructure let alone manage flood control. I would bet there will be a breaking point and Bangkok will become less and less attractive a place to live unless they take some drastic measures to take care of traffic, flood control, water and electricity infrastructure etc. I was there a couple of weeks ago and the BTS was very crowded even on a Saturday morning going into town. The BTS line being extended has brought more and more people in and the trains are not getting any longer or more frequent from what I see. Also, think about this. ONE single breakdown of the BTS on a commute morning means a big mess. I read not too long ago that the soapy massage parlors are using vast amounts of well water actually devouring the water table and lowering the already low level of the city making floods even more problematic as the years go by ... I don't find it attractive in the long term.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by likerdup1

[ExpatOilWorker]

48 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

I remember 13 years ago when I bought my off the plan 10 th floor, 80 sqm condo half way between Asoke and Nana bts for sub 5 million and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy real estate you will lose 50 % immediately blah blah.
I look around now and see the insane prices and crazy rents around lower Sukhumvit and glad I didn't listen

I also bought a unit in the early 2000 for about 30,000 baht/m2, which was the going rate back then.

It is in a pre '97 building and most of these building have appreciated to around 65-80,000 baht/m2, which is good, but still a far cry from the 300-400,000 baht/m2 developers are asking (demanding) now.

There seem to be somewhat of a disconnect in the market and something could break.

[blackhorse]

 
How much is it worth now?
 
BTW, what is Bangkok downtown? I was always under the impression that Bangkok doesn't really have downtown, just different sections that are more developed. I guess these days the argument could be made that it is where the major BTS link is which would be Siam?

I have no idea what's it's worth since I will be leaving in a body bag it's not on my radar. I'm sure my son will appreciate it whatever it is

I don't now about downtown and what it is but I guess it defiantly excludes typical no transport suburbia

[blackhorse]

 
No, I was just explaining in response to your question why I chose BKK vs various upcountry options like Hua Hin. Thus I have my personal reasons that make BKK a better choice for me than some other Thailand location options.  That said, though, it's hardly a city that strikes me as a "luxury" kind of place, high-priced condos notwithstanding.
 
Here's a good example of that. I'm acquainted with someone who works with one of the absolutely richest families in Thailand, the very upper end of the Forbes scale. That family has mansions and a compound in BKK. But guess what they were shopping for lately -- a very high ground clearance SUV type vehicle.
 
Why? Because despite their ridiculous wealth and their mansions, when it rains too much in BKK or the government mismanages flood control as they're prone to do, the access to their mansions tends to be cut off by high floor waters. Thus the need for something to traverse the floods.  In my book, those kinds of realities even for the richest of the rich don't make what I consider to be a luxury city.
 

Luxury is Singapore and Hong Kong. Not many average Joe's can afford to buy a parking bay let alone a condo. BKK is value in that regard.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, the rising sea levels will put a stop to that within the next 20 years. Bangkok is already 1.5 meters below sea level and it continues to sink at about 3 centimeters per year, due to the fact that the ground beneath it is essentially a swamp combined with groundwater being pumped out.

 

In as early as 2030 Bangkok could be flooded. The only way to circumvent it would be building a dam around Bangkok and along the shore of the Chao Praya river. This would be roughly 550 kilometers of dam including the suburbs. I honestly doubt that they’ll be able to build that dam within that time frame. Just acquiring the land to build it would probably already take that long.

 

So, to all the home owners in Bangkok, now is the time to sell and relocate to the sea up on a hill 80 meters above sea level or up north.

Or buy on a high floor, and trade your Bentley in for a skiff

[CALSinCM]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Downtown Bangkok’s Boom Seems Unstoppable

Famous last words.

[alex8912]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, I was just explaining in response to your question why I chose BKK vs various upcountry options like Hua Hin. Thus I have my personal reasons that make BKK a better choice for me than some other Thailand location options.  That said, though, it's hardly a city that strikes me as a "luxury" kind of place, high-priced condos notwithstanding.

 

Here's a good example of that. I'm acquainted with someone who works with one of the absolutely richest families in Thailand, the very upper end of the Forbes scale. That family has mansions and a compound in BKK. But guess what they were shopping for lately -- a very high ground clearance SUV type vehicle.

 

Why? Because despite their ridiculous wealth and their mansions, when it rains too much in BKK or the government mismanages flood control as they're prone to do, the access to their mansions tends to be cut off by high floor waters. Thus the need for something to traverse the floods.  In my book, those kinds of realities even for the richest of the rich don't make what I consider to be a luxury city.

 

Not sure where you hang in BKK but with the amount of high end malls, restaurants , five star hotels , spas etc etc it’s very high end. On another note , if you are living here please take out a map of Thailand and see where Bangkok is, then see where Hua Hin is , then please don’t refer to Hua Hin as up country anymore!! Thanks 

[hhinhh]

5 hours ago, guest879 said:

half the world is now in an asset boom fueled by artificially low interest rates. like someone else said Australia is probably the most primed to bust. was just talking to a friend of mine who lost 4% off the value of his aussie super fund this week alone. almost half the home owners there have less than 20% equity in their own homes.  the next bust will be considerably bigger than 2008 going by the level of leverage and price to earning ratios. Bangkok may not be so exposed but I doubt it will be completely immune.

If you gain 100% in 3 years it is easy to bear 4% loss. Auss market is still far above hat it has been a few years ago.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Not sure where you hang in BKK but with the amount of high end malls, restaurants , five star hotels , spas etc etc it’s very high end. On another note , if you are living here please take out a map of Thailand and see where Bangkok is, then see where Hua Hin is , then please don’t refer to Hua Hin as up country anymore!! Thanks 

 Would you have been happier if I had said "out-country" instead?

 

[hhinhh]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, I was just explaining in response to your question why I chose BKK vs various upcountry options like Hua Hin. Thus I have my personal reasons that make BKK a better choice for me than some other Thailand location options.  That said, though, it's hardly a city that strikes me as a "luxury" kind of place, high-priced condos notwithstanding.

 

Here's a good example of that. I'm acquainted with someone who works with one of the absolutely richest families in Thailand, the very upper end of the Forbes scale. That family has mansions and a compound in BKK. But guess what they were shopping for lately -- a very high ground clearance SUV type vehicle.

 

Why? Because despite their ridiculous wealth and their mansions, when it rains too much in BKK or the government mismanages flood control as they're prone to do, the access to their mansions tends to be cut off by high floor waters. Thus the need for something to traverse the floods.  In my book, those kinds of realities even for the richest of the rich don't make what I consider to be a luxury city.

 

Now I understand why rich people tend to buy boats and yachts increasingly.

[blackhorse]

With this kind of growth I can't see how they are able to sustain the infrastructure let alone manage flood control. I would bet there will be a breaking point and Bangkok will become less and less attractive a place to live unless they take some drastic measures to take care of traffic, flood control, water and electricity infrastructure etc. I was there a couple of weeks ago and the BTS was very crowded even on a Saturday morning going into town. The BTS line being extended has brought more and more people in and the trains are not getting any longer or more frequent from what I see. Also, think about this. ONE single breakdown of the BTS on a commute morning means a big mess. I read not too long ago that the soapy massage parlors are using vast amounts of well water actually devouring the water table and lowering the already low level of the city making floods even more problematic as the years go by ... I don't find it attractive in the long term.

 

 

They are actually starting to manage flood control at least on lower Sukhumvit. Recently soi 13 they had the whole soi ripped up up and new drain pipes and new concrete Rd with massive drains literally every 10 meters on both sides of the street.

 

Exactly the same with soi 15 completed now as they work there way further up Sukhumvit Rd. Barely a puddle in either in big rain.

 

This is no doubt happening elsewhere as well.

Can't speak for the poorer areas as most likely problems will continue for years to come. And the poorer farang living in poorer areas will continue to cry about it but hey if your forced to live like a poor thai then you should have tried harder in 1st world. Zero sympathy from me

 

[sfokevin]

5 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

BTW, what is Bangkok downtown?

Some developers would have you believe On Nut is downtown... 

[blackhorse]

Some developers would have you believe On Nut is downtown... 

That was years ago. Udom Suk is included now [emoji16]

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Would you have been happier if I had said "out-country" instead?

 

No, thats incorrect as well. Just Hua Hin is fine. Everybody on TVF knows the place. Or if Bangkok is reference point you can say down in Hua Hin. 

[blackhorse]

No, thats incorrect as well. Just Hua Hin is fine. Everybody on TVF knows the place. Or if Bangkok is reference point you can say down in Hua Hin. 

You are right. He quoted my post about why not move to Hua hin and save money on rent and he replies by saying his wife wouldn't make as much money "upcountry"

But he won't take ownership of it which is typically TV style

[Time Traveller]

8 hours ago, blackhorse said:

I remember 13 years ago when I bought my off the plan 10 th floor, 80 sqm condo half way between Asoke and Nana bts for sub 5 million and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy real estate you will lose 50 % immediately blah blah.
I look around now and see the insane prices and crazy rents around lower Sukhumvit and glad I didn't listen

I remember 10 years ago when I bought my holding in LPN and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy Thai stocks you will lose everything blah blah.

I look at my brokerage statement now and glad I didn't actually buy a condo.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Time Traveller

[blackhorse]

I remember 10 years ago when I bought my holding in LPN and all the warnings and nonsense about never buy Thai stocks you will lose everything blah blah.
I look at my brokerage statement now and glad I didn't actually buy a condo.

Bad move. Never put it all in one basket. I own a lot of stock bought during the 2008 crash
Spreading your assets and diversification is the key