Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[luckyluke]

20 minutes ago, EricTh said:

just transfer the money to a Thai bank.

Sure, many of us are ready to do this.

We now wait till T.I. let us officially know, they will be agree with this.

 

I personally transfer since 2000, monthly 2000 Euro, not a problem to continue with this.

But still don't know if this will be accepted in lieu of an income letter by T.I.. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by luckyluke

[GeorgeCross]

17 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

Well, if that is what will happen to you and your family, then you need to man up and accept that - 'cos there is absolutely zero chance of any embassy listening and acting on your complaints - zero, nothing, nada...

 

Update:  ... and you would do all the above for the sake of not putting 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account??

 

if he has it, if not very sad story. i hope it works out

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by GeorgeCross

[ally3220]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, Daveyh said:

You definitely need a reality check. There are many of us here who are not so "well heeled" as you appear to be & have been here longer than you. This attitude is typical of many of the expats here of "I'm alright jack" & boast about it. We need to pull together & support everyone on this, especially those living on state pensions with Thai families depending on them ..... fact.

 

Completely agree. I don't have a lump sum I can leave in a Thai bank account but genuinely have an income over the threshold and it is transferred into a Thai bank account each month. I really despair when I read about how we all shouldn't be in Thailand if we don't have 800,000 or 400,000 in a Thai account. I have enough income to live comfortably and I have a Thai wife, should I be thrown out of Thailand and leave her by herself? According to some people on here I should.

[soalbundy]

24 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

Well, if that is what will happen to you and your family, then you need to man up and accept that - 'cos there is absolutely zero chance of any embassy listening and acting on your complaints - zero, nothing, nada...

 

Update:  ... and you would do all the above for the sake of not putting 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account??

It won't happen to me, I have enough income and a German embassy letter, good I don't have the 800k but that has never been a problem. I was reacting to the flippant remarks of 'just put 800k in the bank, simple' I have built two western style houses here when the income method was a viable alternative to the 800k method, well for me it still is as long as the German embassy keeps issuing the letter, if it stops I expect the IO will require some other form of proof. 

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Reading recent topics about Income Letter, it seems to me that these government pensions are not very high. I several times have read 40'000B or alike, so well below the 65'000B required by TI.

Furthermore 65k per month is above the average wage in a non-ferang household.

Edited November 10, 2018 by evadgib

[Spidey]

31 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

How is transferwise short circuiting the system, you can only use it to bring money in to Thailand not however to send it out, I will be using this system. I need more than the 65k a month for my family anyway.

You have no idea whether TI will accept this as proof of income or not.

[mercman24]

know any THAI s with 800,000 in the bank, bet ya dont, as from next year i will know a lot of farangs with that sort of money, then the banks can boast, look how rich we are, and lend out OUR money

[lkv]

18 minutes ago, ally3220 said:

 I have enough income to live comfortably and I have a Thai wife, should I be thrown out of Thailand and leave her by herself? According to some people on here I should.

Not according to us, but according to what Thai Immigration will likely implement next year, where if you want to get a 12 month extension on a non O visa, you will likely have to come up with a lump sum of 800K.

 

Now, you can be hopeful magic would happen, or plan in advance, assuming the worst case scenario. 

 

Nobody said you'll be thrown out of Thailand, but you may have to look at other visa options, O-A, METV and so on, if the lump sum is not an option.

Edited November 10, 2018 by lkv

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

You have no idea whether TI will accept this as proof of income or not.

No I don't but it is all I have as plan B, transferwise sends a statement online where the money came from and I have backup documents and German bank statements from internet banking, if this doesn't look viable next year then I / missus will borrow 400k (I am the legal father of a Thai child) using one of the houses as collateral and pay it off over 2 years. plan C.

[BobBKK]

22 hours ago, wgdanson said:

But they, British Emabassy, never verified that the documentary evidence was 100% kosher.

They demanded a physical bank statement not some 'I swear I'm honest' nothing from the US Embassy. Not the same. Move on.

[ally3220]

24 minutes ago, lkv said:

Not according to us, but according to what Thai Immigration will likely implement next year, where if you want to get a 12 month extension on a non O visa, you will likely have to come up with a lump sum of 800K.

 

Now, you can be hopeful magic would happen, or plan in advance, assuming the worst case scenario. 

 

Nobody said you'll be thrown out of Thailand, but you may have to look at other visa options, O-A, METV and so on, if the lump sum is not an option.

O-A has a requirement for 800,000 baht I think, so not an option.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, ally3220 said:

O-A has a requirement for 800,000 baht I think, so not an option.

It also has a 65k baht income option or a combination of the two. 

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

10 minutes ago, ally3220 said:

O-A has a requirement for 800,000 baht I think, so not an option.

It also has a 65k baht income option or a combination of the two.

Yes -- in the country where you apply for the O-A visa, not Thailand.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It also has a 65k baht income option or a combination of the two. 

And the Thai Embassy will accept your bank statements as evidence. No need for an embassy letter.

[lkv]

18 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- in the country where you apply for the O-A visa, not Thailand.

Well, if it was coming from Thailand in the form of passive income (not work obviously, but say rents), it may very well be accepted for the extension who knows, as a 65K local income. Although that's a tricky one.

 

If it's not coming from Thailand and not the home country, then the options become more limited.

Edited November 10, 2018 by lkv

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Thai requirements for long stay visas, set by the Thailand Immigration Bureau, haven’t been amended, by “Big Joke”, or anyone else. The changes are solely the decision the foreign embassies changing their policies. For whatever reason, the individual embassies have made the change. The Thai Immigration bureau will continue to accept verification affidavits until further notice. And they will accept affidavits dated up to 6 months prior to extension.

 

 

I think that's Thai Immigration's side of the story, or at least the staff you were talking to. But I don't think it's the whole story or a particularly accurate version of the story.

 

Clearly, based on the statements made by the embassies, there were meetings in recent months with Thai Immigration where Immigration supposedly demanded some higher form of income verification, and indicated they were not going to continue to accept letters issued by those embassies using their current methods. So if any of that is true, it's not simply a case of the embassies willy nilly deciding to stop issuing income letters.

 

However, if what the staff at CW told you is correct, then we would be headed toward a double-standard situation where most other countries' embassies will continue issuing income letters that Immigration will accept using methods no more verifiable than those used by the British Embassy, at least. And meanwhile, American, Brits and Aussies will get screwed.

 

So one has to wonder, why has Thai Immigration decided to single out those three embassies/nationalities and leave all the others undisturbed?

[lkv]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So one has to wonder, why has Thai Immigration decided to single out those three embassies/nationalities and leave all the others undisturbed?

Why did Immigration make the O-X available only for a selected group of countries and not all?

 

Why do some people qualify for visa exempt when others have to pay for VOA?

[JLCrab]

23 minutes ago, lkv said:

33 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes -- in the country where you apply for the O-A visa, not Thailand.

Well, if it was coming from Thailand ...

All my funds come from US of A where I would apply for an O-A so you'll have to figure that one out for yourself.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

 

In our case, no one told us anything that we wanted to hear. Instead, they offered alternative solutions. 
 

 

Sorry, I was trying to follow your chain of posts on going to CW, but can't track this one...

 

What were the "alternative solutions" that the staff at CW suggested to you, after saying your U.S. income statements would not be accepted?

 

Also, I couldn't quite follow what you recounted:  are you saying according to Immigration that the transfer of funds into Thailand was going to have to come direct from an income source like Social Security, or it also could come from the applicant transferring their own resources. (In other words, are they saying no to the applicant doing their own 40K or 65K bank transfers into Thailand each month?)

 

There are lots of sources of legitimate income, at least what has been legitimate income in the past, that the recipients have no ability have direct deposited into Thailand by the paying entity. My government pension, for example, will only pay into a U.S. bank account or mail me a paper check -- no other option available.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lkv]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

All my funds come from US of A where I would apply for an O-A so you'll have to figure that one out for yourself.

Ok, so you were likely referring to the inconvenience of travelling to the US every two years as opposed to not having to travel while on an extension.

 

Yes, Thailand is becoming more inconvenient indeed, tell me about it.

Edited November 10, 2018 by lkv

[wgdanson]

57 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

They demanded a physical bank statement not some 'I swear I'm honest' nothing from the US Embassy. Not the same. Move on.

But they did not VERIFY it as the Thai Imm are asking. You need to move on, this has all been said before.

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So one has to wonder, why has Thai Immigration decided to single out those three embassies/nationalities and leave all the others undisturbed?

Or, conversely, one has to wonder why the 3 embassies decided to stop issuing the letters and the majority of embassies didn't.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Or, conversely, one has to wonder why the 3 embassies decided to stop issuing the letters and the majority of embassies didn't.

Supposedly, because Thai Immigration told them their letters would no longer be accepted, unless they somehow changed their verification practices. That's the drift of what the Embassies have said.

 

[Spidey]

Just now, wgdanson said:

But they did not VERIFY it as the Thai Imm are asking. You need to move on, this has all been said before.

As we don't actually know what was said at the meeting in May, we don't really know what level of verification was asked for. IMO the British Embassy used this as an excuse to stop the letters, which suited them. Possibly the American and Australian method of sworn affidavits genuinely didn't meet the requirements.

 

This may be born out by the fact that, of the embassies we know about and haven't discontinued their letters, all seem to use a similar method of verification as the British Embassy, rather than sworn affidavits.

[malagateddy]

Look lads..hopefully some if the Mods will be able to have a meeting with the Thai Immigration top brass to try and formulate..THE WAY FORWARD.
Until any meeting takes place..anything else said in the various threads of the TVForum is all maybe's/I think this/that etc.
Thinking positively, hopefully things could be resolved to everyone's benefit.
Cheers

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Spidey]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Supposedly, because Thai Immigration told them their letters would no longer be accepted, unless they somehow changed their verification practices. That's the drift of what the Embassies have said.

 

But they are still being accepted and embassies that haven't stopped producing the letters have given no indication that, in the future, they will no longer be accepted by TI. Also, why not continue to produce the letters until such time that TI stop accepting them?

[The Truth]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Everybody on this thread will have the required income but what methods the TI wish to be employed in the future to prove it is the only sticking point which is why we are all here, to speculate, to help and to exchange experiences with IO, you come across as arrogant and aggressive for no apparent reason.

And you seem eager to get personal for no reason besides my having a difference of opinion to you. 

 

Maybe "everyone" here does have the required income but obviously Thai immigration sees fit to insist on verification because a heck of a lot of people using these extensions DON'T have it.

 

Now stop being so cantankerous and defensive and accept that others will disagree with you.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

US Social Security, and my funds management company, do not make transfers to foreign bank accounts. My Stateside bank, into which my funds are deposited, does not make transfers to foreign banks. If your money can be tranferred into foreign accounts (Thai bank), you're good to go. Just use the Thai bank statement, showing the monthly deposits into you Thai account, as your documentation. 

I don't believe the only requirement is that the source of the monthly deposits come from a foreign source, not cash or another Thai account.

 

Sorry, I've gone back and read more of your prior posts, and still come away unclear...

 

Based on your conversation with the IOs at CW Immigration...

 

They will or will not accept if you take your Social Security and other income that gets deposited into your U.S. accounts every month, and then you yourself do a monthly transfer of 40K or 65K into a Thai bank account, and then use the Thai bank book to satisfy Immigration?

 

Or, are they somehow insisting that the SOURCE of the monthly transfer has to come direct from the income provider, like Social Security?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

...

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Spidey]

Just now, The Truth said:

Maybe "everyone" here does have the required income but obviously Thai immigration sees fit to insist on verification because a heck of a lot of people using these extensions DON'T have it.

And how would TI know that?