Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Fair enough and I'm sure most of us are law-abiding long-term visitors to Thailand and will abide by any laws the Thais issue. The problem here is that for the income method the Thais require an embassy letter, yet the embassies of three nations refuse to issue one, yet the other nations are continuing to do so (so far). The authorities haven't said what proof they'll accept in place of the letter. If any.

If they come out and say that the income method is no longer an option, the uncertainty will be gone and we'll all have to conform. Until that happens, I think we have a right to expect someone in authority to step up and give us a little assistance on this important issue.

Excuse me? As a farang, what rights do you think you have in Thailand? I'm all ears.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Issanjohn said:

I fully agree with you but I’m not really worried about it anymore because I have a plan and I know when I get my next extension soon my income affidavit will still be accepted one more time.  Although next year I might have to open a Thai bank account and start transferring money into it from my bank in the United States every month that I get paid my pension payments.  In the end this might actually be a good thing in a way because it’ll save me a trip to Bangkok and actually using a Thai bank account might make it easier for me to pay bills instead of cash for all the bills every month.  

 

But I still really don’t like the changes it is really dumb because basically the United States Embassy and two other embassies are basically saying “well we’ve apparently been doing the income affidavits wrong for all these years because we were supposed to be actually verifying your income so instead of actually correcting our mistake and doing it right we’re just gonna stop providing the service all together good luck”. That’s basically what they’re saying without actually saying it and it makes me angry as well but I kind of know what I need to do in order to deal with it.  Honestly as long as you actually do receive at least minimum the required income every month you really shouldn’t have anything to worry about.  I was stressing out about it as well until after I got official guidance on the issue from both the United States Embassy and immigration.  

 

Really what’s going on here is that immigration is apparently just trying to enforce the current rules already in place and a few of our embassies just flat out refuse to comply with immigration’s rules which I fully agree is BS.  

 

I mean it’s really not that difficult for the embassy to verify our income it’s just a matter of bringing in a bank statement, pension letter, or whatever the case is.  I understand that the embassy is busy and everyone’s income situation is different but really how hard can it be for the embassy to just quickly review a bank statement or a pension letter?  I’m sure it would take more time and cause them a little bit more work but that’s what the citizen services section of the embassy is there to do.  If they don’t want to do their job or work harder then they should go home and let other people take their jobs because there are lots of people who are just dying to get an overseas assignment in a government job making that big money that they make.  I used to work for the government and I’ve dealt with our embassies all over the world and they are very well paid trust me.  They get paid a lot of money to do what they do.  I remember when I worked in Tokyo the United States Embassy was a lot better although they were never half as busy as our embassy is here.  I don’t know I really don’t want to be so quick to blame the embassy employees because it’s not their fault it’s someone’s fault in a high level leadership position.  And I was just at the embassy recently to renew my passport and you do have to admit that they are extremely busy already as it is but I still don’t see what’s so difficult about asking us to bring proof that you do receive the money every month in with you when you go in for your income affidavit, if they don’t do it immigration will have to do it.  It’ll actually make immigration’s job harder as well.  I always wondered what kept people from lying on the income affidavits but it actually is a sworn notarized United States government document so whether it’s actually enforced or not lying on the income affidavit is a federal offense, it’s actually a felony offense to lie on the income affidavit because you are swearing under penalty of perjury.  If I were in charge I would just keep doing exactly what they are doing and just tell immigration that if they catch someone who has lied on their income affidavit then just report them to us and then actually enforce US federal government law and charge that individual with perjury.  The penalty of perjury is supposed to be the guarantee but apparently that’s not good enough probably because people are abusing the system just punish the people who are caught abusing the system and leave the rest of us who are living here legally alone, but that’s just my opinion.  Although that’s a good opinion for a petition or something to the embassy, I’d probably sign it.  Apparently it’s the British, United States, and the Australian embassies who are the culprits.  

Short n sweet, what was that again?

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, Ned said:

If you've got the money in an overseas bank then bring it over here. So it costs you lost interest? What do you want more: more interest in your account o/s or a pretty Retirement Extension in your passport here?

If living here's that important to you , what's the issue. It's no contest!

Very sad that those honest applicants who have been using the income method without a hitch for so long now find themselves thrown into the same basket as the hordes of scammers who have been making false declarations for years. But that's the nature of scams isn't it?

Look at social security fraud in the West. Worthy recipients find themselves compared to fraudsters and find themselves under attack as 'parasites' or worse; formerly hard working people who find themselves in no physical condition to work. Parasites! "I knew a bloke who had nothing wrong with him and got a fortune from Social Security" etc etc I don't want any of my taxes going to those mongrels!

Scammers have no ground to stand on. You've had a good run..... so cop it sweet and move on.

As for the honest ones......Win some lose some.

 

Inflammatory, "I'm rich, I'm alright Jack" post. Too man of them on this thread already. I for one would be grateful if you'd desist.

[Olmate]

40 minutes ago, digger70 said:

I Agree .this letter bullshit has been stopped because To many Expats have been Lying about the Real income/pension .I one can't get the acquired funds together for their extension they shouldn't be here,and it will stop the rogue agents from doing their dodgy way of getting you an extension with  no THB in the bank.

You couldn’t be further from the reality! Agents tea money goes right to the top,do you think the big man can stop that happening,Dream on digger who says I who shouldn’t,t be here?

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Olmate said:

  46 minutes ago, digger70 said:

I Agree .this letter bullshit has been stopped because To many Expats have been Lying about the Real income/pension .I one can't get the acquired funds together for their extension they shouldn't be here,and it will stop the rogue agents from doing their dodgy way of getting you an extension with  no THB in the bank.

Who said the letters have stopped ? 3, three, embassies have stopped issuing making a mountain out of a molehill, the other embassies a still issuing and have no plans to stop doing so (German embassy)

[metisdead]

An off topic post about social security fraud in the west has been removed.

[thailand49]

Where should I start?

What I see here and from other threads regarding this topic is sad that we have to be cutting each other up when we are basically all in the same boat regardless of whether one has the means or not. We as people aren't much different I'm not going to try to say those who don't have any sympathy to start doing so for this topic. People make choices and living here is one of them and it doesn't mean those who can do so easily think that all those who scrape by are liars and cheaters when obtaining the affidivate. Everyone has their story and reason as to why they are here.

When it comes to blame not all but the Embassy representing citizens retired or visiting have a duty to their citizens that is exactly the reason for " Citizen services " it isn't just a counter to pay for services or a cash cow as someone noted. As for the American Embassy in Bangkok you take note of the number of appointments on their calendar something like 30 a day I would assume are for the affidivate current charge 1700 baht X 25 days that is 1,275,000 million baht a month X 12 months = 15,3000,000 a year. Now lets not forget all the outreach they do per year you guess the reason. When I use to get one in Pattaya looking at the sign up list I would easily say there are 200 Expats there just for the affidivate?  So should they do more damn right they should for me it isn't all about being polite and diplomated although they are on foreign soil it to me it is very simple ask a question after all the threads and posting " why after all these years of accepting the affidivate why now? " Why past practice all these year it is now no longer acceptible " It isn't like yesterday that they found out that Expats were being told to just lie or the numbers weren't being verified.

When you look at the staffing and the time a affidivate is issue there isn't one Embassy on this planet that could verify all the documents. You add the time zone difference etc it is impossible. The U.S. ask you to raise your hands, the UK seem to ask you to submit the documents those who do one would assume doing so shows one has nothing to hide it is basically the honor system. Even if one hires a outside agency to do the verification why would any Embassy give up part of a cash cow. The current system lie/cheat call it what you want to me it was derived from past practice from Thai Immigration to except them they themselves have played a part in the system. Thailand government should understand this concept they use it daily hoping with no enforcement their citizens will obey the driving law we all know that answer. As for lying their government even their people believe there is no real harm in a white lie.

So lets assume everyone or majority are leaving the Embassy lying. In all the Big Joke raids the so call 1 million overstay foreigners are any of these Expats? Are Expats being swept up daily found begging for money on the streets? Posters say they know Expats who seem barely making it here in Thailand are their jails full of Expats arrested for shop lifting?  are they so drunk adding to Thailand most dangerous country to drive numbers so high they are ranked #1. What a Expat does or how he looks is their business they still must come up with the 1700 baht for the affidivate pay the Thai Immigration 1900 baht and the re-entry of 1000-3800 baht. If there is a underground market for extension are they run by expats? 

I'm very lucky to have the funds to stay here but since arriving 13 years, even then I didn't know all the ropes I joined a number of expat clubs got tons of information most important I have met expats from all over the world maybe they are liars cheats for the affidivate short a bit to live here for whatever reason they are here they aren't doing it as criminals that warrants a sweep with a broad brush called out as liars and cheats is just unfair since not everyone is equal in life. Not everyone can be well off and rich nor everyone living here are liars/cheats and criminals we are all human we make mistake many are beaten and let down by their governement do we let to step on them too?

Every reports suggest that every Thai Immigration office seem to have a different interpretation regarding their own rules outline. When I got the U.S. Embassy notice I did go to the Thai immigration website under the retirement rules. My interpretation in the wording the 800,000 baht must be in a " Thai Bank" for first time application the funds must be seasoned for 3 months thereafter renewal only two months there is no mentioned it must be seasoned thereafter for a period.

The monthly income doesn't stipulate it must be in a " Thai Bank " it only states "Bank" but as many have read some immigration are saying it must be in a Thai bank.  If not, I can see if I want to test their system provide them with monthly bank statement from my two major banks at home deposits of my pension. I use the ATM method here each month can easily highlight the withdraws well over 100,000 baht each month the statement shows withdraws are all majority made out of Thai ATM in Pattaya. So based on the word " Bank " would work for Thai government?

Also one poster suggested the U.S. Embassy has been doing something, my reading I conclude much difference all it say is for whatever reason the affidivate was accepted in the past as of January 1st it no longer will. It doesn't state any discussion, reason as to why the Thai Govenment all of a sudden is question the affidivate nor has given any solution thus the reason they ask you to go to the Thai immigration website, classic government handoff two step!

This is Thailand their government I fully understand the rules which is to protect their country and keep it too themselves the major reason you can't own real property admit it or not it is discrimitory many countries even the U.S. should adopt some of these rules?  I knew the rules coming in and I've for 13 years gone along with them I am a American first and foremost believe I've given more to this country and than those who were born here. I wish I could give more I believe in my heart I have more love for Thai people than the government that represent them but that is for another topic. But living here doesn't mean I give up want has made me the person I'm today and to speak out for those who can't or won't that for those of us who disagree with the decision are liars and cheats. There is so much good and wrong with Thailand yet Thai immigration has painted us all with a broad brush with absolutely no evidence that Expats are a problem.

I worked in Human resouces for a period prior to retiring and never have I gotten request from any Embassy to verify income the method is what it is I ask again to the Embassy and Thai Immigration " what is the problem and the evidence "

If you can do better my suggestion is I will gladly when I apply for my extension and want to use the income method provide Immigration with all the documents and evidence and you can do it yourself. Reality 90% of the agents can't even speak nor could they comprehend the information or even find the time the lines will be out the door for days and weeks. In time, they themselves would just ask you to raise you hand take you 1700 baht translate to millions each year and it would be no different than any Embassy you couldn't find a shedder large enough.

Another suggestion Expats should find a good week like Christmas and New Years and just stay home in protest if they don't appreciate us?

Thanks for everyone times just my point of view! 

 

[jvs]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

How many? 10? 100? Not that difficult to find a way to stay here.

 

Crisis of delirium? .

Seriously, this has been discussed a lot already. Impact would be nearly nil ! Members here tend to overestimate a lot the number and the financial importance of farang retirees in Thailand.

Say 5000 UK citizens go home.where are they going to live?Seems to me a bigger problem for the UK instead of Thailand.

[pmarlowe]

You can get verified proof of funds easily at your bank. Much easier than a trip to the embassy.

[sniggie]

4 hours ago, newatthis said:

OK, how could it have been handled better? It's not nice but they did give 2 months notice. Did you want 6 months notice? How about 12 months notice? What more could they do for you? Surely not a survey? Whatever they do, someone is going to be disappointed.

Two months notice isn't much good if Immigration requires the 800k to be seasoned for 3 months. If Immigration are reasonable enough to accept embassy letters for 6 months into 2019 then that gives everyone time to comply with the changed requirements. whatever they turn out to be.    

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, jvs said:

Say 5000 UK citizens go home.where are they going to live?Seems to me a bigger problem for the UK instead of Thailand.

Hyde park is large and tents are small

[HappyAndRich]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

A post with some inflammatory unneeded comments has been removed.

 

Edit: And now a reply to it and another post attempting to deflect the topic.

And what was wrong with my comment? I clearly elevated two big problems with the big gathering that actually is well known to all. I was relating to real life.
 

After that I sincerely wished every single nationality up for the elimination of the income letter great success. I also tried my best to do it in their own style of English.

Please tell me where I broke the rules?

[jvs]

These changes do not affect me as of yet but in my home country a call from the Embassy to my pension fund would go as follows,

Ring ring,Pension funds how can i help you?

Yes this is the embassy in bangkok,i would like to know if the amount mister jvs shows as income from your office is true.

Pension fund :sorry there are privacy laws and we can not give you any information about this,have a nice day:

You see people the embassies can not verify your income even if they wanted to!

[direction BANGKOK]

THis kinda sucks for everyone. I do not even use the letters, but I am expecting my minivan run to the border hop will be chock full next time. 

[HappyAndRich]

2 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

THis kinda sucks for everyone. I do not even use the letters, but I am expecting my minivan run to the border hop will be chock full next time. 

What do you use then? 800K? Welcome to the club. The few and selected.

[Kerryd]

Lol.

Thailand is not worried that smaller line-ups at it's Immigration offices will force them to lay off staff. Especially when the numbers of tourist arrivals is breaking records every year.
And, despite all the people who seem to think they are the sole reason Thailand hasn't gone bankrupt (yet), I seriously doubt that if a few hundred (or even a couple thousand) people get all huffy and "take their money elsewhere where they still aren't wanted but can pretend it's better than Thailand", it's not going to register as even a small dip in the overall economy.

Especially when a lot of those people will be leaving because, in truth, they aren't making (or spending) anywhere near as much as they've been claiming.
 

For the rest of us, it will be just like when they clamped down on the "30 Day" stamps. Everyone was all "waaaa - Thailand's economy will die if we can't live here without meeting any financial requirements and we have to move to another country".
Meanwhile the rest of us just carried on like normal. Thailand never even noticed "all" those who left because they couldn't stay forever using the 30 Day stamps.

 

For the rest of us, it will be like when they decided that your 400k/800k had to be in the bank for 3 months before applying for your Extension. Everyone was all "waaaa - Thailand's economy will die if we have to leave because they won't let us scam them by borrowing the money from an agent for a day because we can't actually afford to be here". 
Meanwhile, the rest of us just carried on like normal. Again, I doubt that Thailand even noticed a tiny dip in the economy when "all" those people who were getting Extensions by borrowing the required amount for a day and then living on peanuts the rest of the year, all left to go somewhere where they felt "more wanted".

Those changes were made, no doubt, in response to everything Thai Immigration has read on various forums, by people who are constantly trying to find ways around the rules (i.e. the scammers) because they can't meet the requirements Thailand has set.
 

Of course there are honest people, who meet the rules, that get caught up along with the scammers. I know some of them. They have their reasons for not wanting to put money in a Thai bank. We know one guy who died and didn't have a Thai Will. His money is probably still locked in the bank until such time as it reverts to the government. It's not the bank's fault he didn't make a Will. It's not Thailand's fault.

Another guy says he gets free ATM withdrawals from his bank in the US so he simply withdraws what he needs every month (and he's spending more than 65k/month and he's married so he easily passes the "45k/month" mark as well of course). 
Another guy is easily making more than the required amount as well, but doesn't want to have anything that "ties" him down here (like a condo or large sum in an account that he couldn't just empty and walk away with). He transfers money over 2-3 times a year. He doesn't want the hassle of having multiple accounts and passbooks and ATM cards, and he's had one bank account emptied by his "wife" already so he's not about to put a whack of cash in another one she can get at (easily).

They are going to have to bite the bullet and transfer enough into an account to meet the requirement and be done with it. Whether they choose to live on that money afterwards and top it up as needed or just leave it there indefinitely is up to them of course. I've told them easy ways to do it and pointed out that the interest they earn is easily enough to pay for their yearly Extensions (and Multi Re-entry permits if they want them), while still having enough left over for a good "night on the town" as well as being able to get accounts without ATM access (to cut down on the chances of a "family" member being able to empty the account).. But then they go on about about needing a Will and such.

In both of those cases, I suspect they will do what needs to be done in order to meet whatever the new requirements will be. Just like most of the rest of the "honest" people will do. They know that Cambodia, the Philippines, Laos and Cambodia aren't really "options" despite what some people claim. There are good reasons why so many expats are in Thailand and not those countries (well, except for maybe the Philippines). Couple guys I spoke to though wouldn't consider the Philippines as they thought it was more dangerous than Thailand, and not because of the road statistics.

And as with the other cases, I highly doubt that the number of people that will actually leave because of this income letter change will have any effect on Thailand at all. The numbers will most likely be a lot smaller than the "doom and gloomers" think (or hope) they will be and the "lost income" will also be so small that it won't even register on the economic radar.
What will happen is a lot of people will gripe and groan and then just before the 3 month mark for their next Extension they will transfer a whack of cash into an account and let it sit there for the requisite time period before applying for their next extension. 

Just like the rest of us.

[HappyAndRich]

16 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Thanks for everyone times just my point of view! 

Sorry I had to short it down. Next time, can you please try to make that reading like 5 times smaller by taking away all obvious repeting of the same subject?

[tgeezer]

A government pension is paid until you die. Once the proof has been endorsed once there is no need to repeat the process. Like a fixed account, annual photocopies and bank letters are superfluous and that Immigration requires them is rather odd. It is as though they want us all to use ‘agents’.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Thaidream]

24 minutes ago, HappyAndRich said:

Please tell me where I broke the rules?

Look in the mirror and think.....the truth will set you free!

[HappyAndRich]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Look in the mirror and think.....the truth will set you free!

Do not see moderator as a title under your handle?

[onera1961]

May be TI will move to the Malaysian model.

  

Edited November 8, 2018 by onera1961

[totally thaied up]

43 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Lol.

Thailand is not worried that smaller line-ups at it's Immigration offices will force them to lay off staff. Especially when the numbers of tourist arrivals is breaking records every year.
And, despite all the people who seem to think they are the sole reason Thailand hasn't gone bankrupt (yet), I seriously doubt that if a few hundred (or even a couple thousand) people get all huffy and "take their money elsewhere where they still aren't wanted but can pretend it's better than Thailand", it's not going to register as even a small dip in the overall economy.

Especially when a lot of those people will be leaving because, in truth, they aren't making (or spending) anywhere near as much as they've been claiming.
 

For the rest of us, it will be just like when they clamped down on the "30 Day" stamps. Everyone was all "waaaa - Thailand's economy will die if we can't live here without meeting any financial requirements and we have to move to another country".
Meanwhile the rest of us just carried on like normal. Thailand never even noticed "all" those who left because they couldn't stay forever using the 30 Day stamps.

 

For the rest of us, it will be like when they decided that your 400k/800k had to be in the bank for 3 months before applying for your Extension. Everyone was all "waaaa - Thailand's economy will die if we have to leave because they won't let us scam them by borrowing the money from an agent for a day because we can't actually afford to be here". 
Meanwhile, the rest of us just carried on like normal. Again, I doubt that Thailand even noticed a tiny dip in the economy when "all" those people who were getting Extensions by borrowing the required amount for a day and then living on peanuts the rest of the year, all left to go somewhere where they felt "more wanted".

Those changes were made, no doubt, in response to everything Thai Immigration has read on various forums, by people who are constantly trying to find ways around the rules (i.e. the scammers) because they can't meet the requirements Thailand has set.
 

Of course there are honest people, who meet the rules, that get caught up along with the scammers. I know some of them. They have their reasons for not wanting to put money in a Thai bank. We know one guy who died and didn't have a Thai Will. His money is probably still locked in the bank until such time as it reverts to the government. It's not the bank's fault he didn't make a Will. It's not Thailand's fault.

Another guy says he gets free ATM withdrawals from his bank in the US so he simply withdraws what he needs every month (and he's spending more than 65k/month and he's married so he easily passes the "45k/month" mark as well of course). 
Another guy is easily making more than the required amount as well, but doesn't want to have anything that "ties" him down here (like a condo or large sum in an account that he couldn't just empty and walk away with). He transfers money over 2-3 times a year. He doesn't want the hassle of having multiple accounts and passbooks and ATM cards, and he's had one bank account emptied by his "wife" already so he's not about to put a whack of cash in another one she can get at (easily).

They are going to have to bite the bullet and transfer enough into an account to meet the requirement and be done with it. Whether they choose to live on that money afterwards and top it up as needed or just leave it there indefinitely is up to them of course. I've told them easy ways to do it and pointed out that the interest they earn is easily enough to pay for their yearly Extensions (and Multi Re-entry permits if they want them), while still having enough left over for a good "night on the town" as well as being able to get accounts without ATM access (to cut down on the chances of a "family" member being able to empty the account).. But then they go on about about needing a Will and such.

In both of those cases, I suspect they will do what needs to be done in order to meet whatever the new requirements will be. Just like most of the rest of the "honest" people will do. They know that Cambodia, the Philippines, Laos and Cambodia aren't really "options" despite what some people claim. There are good reasons why so many expats are in Thailand and not those countries (well, except for maybe the Philippines). Couple guys I spoke to though wouldn't consider the Philippines as they thought it was more dangerous than Thailand, and not because of the road statistics.

And as with the other cases, I highly doubt that the number of people that will actually leave because of this income letter change will have any effect on Thailand at all. The numbers will most likely be a lot smaller than the "doom and gloomers" think (or hope) they will be and the "lost income" will also be so small that it won't even register on the economic radar.
What will happen is a lot of people will gripe and groan and then just before the 3 month mark for their next Extension they will transfer a whack of cash into an account and let it sit there for the requisite time period before applying for their next extension. 

Just like the rest of us.

You are spot on here. I am getting the same feedback from my friends as well. They will moan and groan about it but the money will go in and a few might leave. It won't even be a blip on the radar.

 

Personally, after speaking to CM Immigration yesterday, I can see just the 800/400K method being used. Way to hard to spring it for everyone with income. I gather it will be across the board and that will be the end of the matter. This time next year, maybe a few less here by a few thousand or so (maybe even less) and life will go on. I just put 400K in my bank. I will walk away from it and forget it all now till something else changes. Will make a Will now in Thailand but really, my wife has orders to empty the bank upon the day of my death.

Edited November 8, 2018 by totally thaied up

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, HappyAndRich said:

Do not see moderator as a title under your handle?

Don't be offended- I rather missed you today!

[HappyAndRich]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Don't be offended- I rather missed you today!

Been, busy! Out all day buying clothes with Mrs. 

[Kerryd]

And keep in mind people, Thai Immigration did - not - say that they wouldn't be accepting "Income Letters" as of 1 Jan (or whenever).

That is when (some of) the Embassies said they would stop issuing those letters. (In some cases the letters are valid for up to 6 months after issue - but I'm sure you already know that, don't you.)

And no - the low level staff at your embassy, many of whom may be foreign nationals, do not have access to confidential financial information on every citizen from your country. 
Seriously. I find it amazing how many people seem to think that Teerak Somchai from Nakhon Nowhere can push a button and access information that even the FBI would need a warrant to do in the States.

 

Get real people. There are LAWS about those kinds of things. Even in the part of the government that actually pays out your (government) pension, it isn't possible for just anyone to access that information (or make it public), let alone people from other branches/departments. If it was that easy then Donald Trump's tax files would have been made public long before he was actually elected.
 

And you think all your embassies have enough staff sitting around on their ***es with nothing better to do that research all the financial details of all the people who have have multiple sources of income from different companies in different states that have different privacy laws ? Not too mention that every single one of those people will have a dozen different reasons for why their income "doesn't quite" meet the requirement but if the staffer would sign the letter "just this one time" they'll make sure they have all the right information (and amounts) for next time. (And so on and so on.)

Take the UK embassy for example. They apparently process 300(+) "Income Letters" per month. THINK about that. That equals 10 per day, every single day of the month, every day of the year. Take off 1 day a week and a couple holidays and it works out to around 17 letters per day, every single working day of the year.

 

A lot of you people need to wake up to some reality. Your embassies do not have that many staff. Those staff do not have access to confidential financial information (even the senior staff that are citizens of your country). Your LAWS prevent them from accessing that information even if they were willing to try.

Thailand has told them that they will not accept the income letters unless the amounts claimed can be verified. So if your Embassy thinks they can verify what you tell them is true, and is willing to swear to that (and thus be held liable if it turns out the information is false), then Immigration will accept an Income Letter from them.

I suspect that most of the larger Embassies will do the same thing as the UK/Australian/American Embassies because they can't verify the information, even if they wanted to, and don't want to be held liable.
Maybe some embassies, that have fewer expats in country asking for such letters and have different laws about accessing confidential information on their citizens, will continue issuing the letters (and accepting liability for them) but they will be few in number. 

I'm kind of curious what the Russian, Chinese and Indian embassies are telling their people. I suspect that most of the "expats" from the neighbouring countries are probably not on long term Visas - or using "income letters" either so they probably aren't concerned about it.



 

[onera1961]

I see lots of elderly Russians in Jomiten area. Do they also use embassy letters? There are also lots of young Russian families. Are they on work visa? Is any Russian company doing any project in Chonburi district?

[Psimbo]

'Expats need to organise' - get real. Do you really think the Embassies give a toss what you think. Ringfence the 800k and if you can't afford it sod off! I am getting tired of people whinging about this.

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Your LAWS prevent them from accessing that information even if they were willing to try.

That is a ruse. How do the banks verify your incomes in the US and risk millions of dollars for home loans? If you give permission, they should be able to verify anything.

[Spidey]

11 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

All you have to organise is getting the correct amount of money in your bank account, or coming into it. The only people this change affects are the liars and fraudsters, as it was meant to

As far as Brit expats are concerned, this is the only group that won't be affected. It's the Honest Joes who send proof of income to the BE every year to verify their income. I send my P60 (similar to tax return) and pension payslip, both extremely difficult to forge and I send originals, I also send 3 months original copies of bank statements.

 

I know a good number of British expats and would say that around 50% of them use the income verification method to obtain their visa extensions, none of whom are liars or fraudsters.

 

The other 50% use the "money seeded into Thai bank account" method. Of these, I know of 2 who don't have the necessary funds to satisfy Thai Immigration and both use an agent to circumvent the system. It's they who are gaming the system, not those of us using the income letter route.

 

I concede that it's much easier for Aussies and Americans to use the embassy letter route to obtain an income letter, as they aren't required to provide any proof of income to their embassies. Admittedly, I don't know as many Aussie and American expats, although I do know quite a few Aussie and a couple of American expats, and those I do know aren't cheats or liars as they tend to use the "money in bank" method to save themselves the trip to Bangkok every year.

 

In conclusion, for Brits, it's the people who use agents to illegally seed notional bank accounts, and will continue to do so, who are the "liars and frauds", not those who use embassy letters to provide proof of income and, for no good reason, will no longer be able to do so as of next year.

 

I wonder how many of them will be forced into becoming "liars and frauds" by the British Embassy?

 

 

[Patriot1066]

13 hours ago, watgate said:

I sent a message to you and basically it said I am currently residing in Chiang Mai or else I would be onboard with you in Bangkok. I concur that what was done by the US Embassy and Consulate was despicable. They basically took the easy way out and left the US Expat community out to dry. There was no accountability of these firmly entrenched government bureaucrats and they took the easy way out. There are many serious issues and potentially devastating effects to many expats who are currently residing in Thailand. These issues must be addressed by the US Embassy and Consulate and not swept under the rug for folks who have to navigate these serious concerns  themselves with no clear guidance or input into this matter by the US Embassy and Consulate.

Your lucky the UK no longer has an embassy in CM.