Udon Thani 65,000 baht retirement extension rules

[american]

Udon Thani provided me with the following 65,000 baht retirement extension information on Friday, nov 17, 2018.

I am a single American male in my upper 70's and only use the 65,000 monthly income for my retirment extension.

i asked no questions about married requirements or the 800,000 baht requiring 3 months in a Thai bank accct. i use the 65,000 baht income method.

This is the information I received:

1. The American Embassy income affadavid document will be accepted at udon Thani Immigration up to 6 months from the date the US Embassy issues and certifies it. But the letter has to be issued by the US Embaassy prior to Jan. 1, 2019. Because, as of Jan 1, 20119, the US Embassy will no longer isssues any letters documenting american citizens income. Example:  a letter certifying one's income that is issued and stamped by the US Embassy on any date during this november 2018 will be accepted at Udon Thani up to that SAME date in May 2019. That is a 6 month period. Here's another example: if the income affadvid is issued during Dec. 2018, it will be accepted at Udon thani up to that SAME date in June 2019. That is a six month period. As I understood it, the bottom line is that any income affadvids issued between now, but prior to jan.1, 2019 will be accepted at Udon Thani for up to 6 months from the exact date the affadvid was issued and stampedby the Us Embassy.

 

2. In my case, I am fortunate that I can get my US income affadavid certified before the end of Dec. 2018 and be within the Thai time frame that will allow me to apply for and receive my retirement extension in late Dec. 2018, prior to the Jan 2019 date stamped in my passport. The Thai Immigration Officer was very pleasant and very helpful through this whole period of questions. He even said i did not have to rush to get my Thai retirement extension, as once I received the us certified income letter, I could just wait and come in Jan. 2019 for my retirement extension as required by the date stamped on my passport by Thai immigration. The only real rush was that i had to get my income verified at the US Embassy before they stopped issuing such letters as of Jan. 2019.

Once I can provide the income verification letter to Thai immigration, my income requirements are met for the coming year and Thai immigration will consider me as meeting the retirement extension. Of course i have to pay the usual charges to recive my stamps of approval for retirement extension as well as a multiple entry visa.

 

3. However, I was given information that could prove problematic for other reetirement extensions based on the 65,000 monthly income requirement. I was 

    told the 65,000 income requirement has to be met each and every individual month. One can't have less than 65,000 deposited 1 month and then 

    deposit a higher amount another month so that the "averaged monthly income" would in fact be 65,000 or greater. That could have been a deal breaker 

    for me, becuse over the past year I had some monthly deposits into my bank acount of less thn 65,000 baht, but had other months of 90,000 to 100,000

    baht. As  explained to me, I had not met immigration's requirement that a minimum of 65,000 baht had to have been deposited "monthly" into my bank 

    acct. I would have had more than the required 780,000 baht (65,000 x 12 = 780,000 baht) required for a years income, BUT I had Not deposited at least 

    65,000 baht monthly minimum into my bank account. I had never considered that situation, as I always previously used my verified income affadavid.

    Fortunately, I still have time to get that needed income letter of verification, and have Thai immigrtion give me my retirment extension for the coming 

    year. From now on i will be sure to always deposit at least 65,000 baht monthly into my bank account.

    I think thai immigration wants confirmation that retirees have a stable monthly income to meet expenses, etc.  REquiring a minimum of 65,000 baht 

    monthly into one's bank acct. accomplishes that goal. I did not think to ask if the monthly deposit had to be in 1 lump deposit. I will ask that question when i go son to do my 90 dy report.

 

I do want to thank the immigration officer for being so professional, polite and helpful.  He understood that different retirees are bound to come up with their own individual income issues  for satisfying the Thai income requirements for a retirement extension. he hopes all rules regarding income for retirement extensions will become clarified sooner than later.  i am sure we all hope for that.

   I hope some of this information will prove helpful to some other single American retirees here inThailand.

 

i hope some of this information will help a few people.

   

   

[american]

I just posted this subject  and apologize for the following errors:

1. My spellcheck function is not working.

2. Before posting this, i tried to rewrite some parts. Tht has resulted in some strange formatting  of what I wrote.

3. This is my first ever posting. I will need to get used to all of the rules for postings. i will learn in time.

 

 

 AMERICAN

[OJAS]

48 minutes ago, american said:

3. However, I was given information that could prove problematic for other reetirement extensions based on the 65,000 monthly income requirement. I was 

    told the 65,000 income requirement has to be met each and every individual month. One can't have less than 65,000 deposited 1 month and then 

    deposit a higher amount another month so that the "averaged monthly income" would in fact be 65,000 or greater. That could have been a deal breaker 

    for me, becuse over the past year I had some monthly deposits into my bank acount of less thn 65,000 baht, but had other months of 90,000 to 100,000

    baht. As  explained to me, I had not met immigration's requirement that a minimum of 65,000 baht had to have been deposited "monthly" into my bank 

    acct. I would have had more than the required 780,000 baht (65,000 x 12 = 780,000 baht) required for a years income, BUT I had Not deposited at least 

    65,000 baht monthly minimum into my bank account. I had never considered that situation, as I always previously used my verified income affadavid.

I strongly suspect that this is just the personal opinion of the officer to whom you spoke, particularly given this subsequent statement in your posting:-

 

50 minutes ago, american said:

he hopes all rules regarding income for retirement extensions will become clarified sooner than later

 

[BHW]

Good information thanks, I'am an Aussie presume it will be the same, I go to Si Sa Ket office where they are very polite & helpful just hope all offices have the same rules.

[mfd101]

The bit about 65K EVERY month (not just an average) is important. Obviously still tbc but we should act accordingly meantime.

[joevanwyck]

1 hour ago, american said:

I just posted this subject  and apologize for the following errors:

1. My spellcheck function is not working.

2. Before posting this, i tried to rewrite some parts. Tht has resulted in some strange formatting  of what I wrote.

3. This is my first ever posting. I will need to get used to all of the rules for postings. i will learn in time.

 

 

 AMERICAN

Thank you for your post, it was very informative.

[Longcut]

Please don't take this personally. I salute you for this report and also thank you. But, I think the IO was being moronic. What difference can it possibly make what the monthly total deposit is if it averages out come next year when you reapply? It is this reasoning here that so infuriates me. 

 I know I am venting and I apologise. 

[Lumbini]

Thanks , it’s nice to know they will honor the affidavit for 6 months .

[american]

13 minutes ago, Longcut said:

Please don't take this personally. I salute you for this report and also thank you. But, I think the IO was being moronic. What difference can it possibly make what the monthly total deposit is if it averages out come next year when you reapply? It is this reasoning here that so infuriates me. 

 I know I am venting and I apologise. 

I "think/guess" immigration is trying to enforce a steady monthly income, which most people need. They don't want to see months of no deposits and then 1 sudden huge deposit. As in so many things, rules are created without always seeming to make sense or be reasonable.  I just passed on what I was told. i understand many will not like or agree with how the 65,000 baht will be calculated or resolved at Thai immigration. I'm not judging, just passing on what i was told at Thai immigration.TIT. it is up to us to follow their rules. of course, this and any other rules can change on a moments notice.

[Moonlover]

Many thanks to O/P for his efforts. Don't worry about typos. The message is quite clear.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Maestro
Removed part of the post that was in reply to a removed post.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to it.

[BoBoTheClown]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

I strongly suspect that this is just the personal opinion of the officer to whom you spoke, particularly given this subsequent statement in your posting:-

 

 

The rules say 65,000 baht per month. The idea is consistency of income. 

[Moonlover]

12 hours ago, Lumbini said:

Thanks , it’s nice to know they will honor the affidavit for 6 months .

It's even nicer to know the rest of us, without letters have a chance!

 

The more positive news such as this that we hear, the better. If for no other reason than the 'doom prophets' will finally give us a rest.  

[Jeffrey346]

I can't imagine that 65,000 must be transfered each month. Do you really think they will reject a one time transfer of B780,000, or quarterly transfers of B195,000?

[DPKANKAN]

46 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I can't imagine that 65,000 must be transfered each month. Do you really think they will reject a one time transfer of B780,000, or quarterly transfers of B195,000?

Exactly. I get my private pension every 3 months. Usually I only send it over when I need it but it more than covers the minimum 65,000. Transfers cost money and timing is about exchange rates too. Perhaps have 2 bank accounts at separate banks and just drip feed 65000 in a month to satisfy the moronic way of thinking??!!

[ratcatcher]

The requirement for retirement is

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
(2) Must be 50 years of age or over.
(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or
(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than
Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a
deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to
the filing date; or
(5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht
800,000 as of the filing date.
(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively
permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

Copied from https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18
"Evidence of income of no less than B65,000 / month." No mention of being deposited in a Thai bank. That is what the affidavit proved. 

If it is deposited monthly into a Thai bank, surely no affidavit is required, preferably a letter from the Thai bank and copies of passbook.

On a slightly different subject, if the B800,000  or B400,000 (Marriage) is imported to a Thai bank account and duly seasoned for the required period, is there any demand that says the money must stay in the account or be used for living expenses during the coming year. I am curious as to what happens if money is imported then after the extension is granted, it is repatriated to the bank of its origin. Can this be done? 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by ratcatcher

[Danthai]

Any indication that next year the combination method will be allowed with money in bank and monthly deposits to account might be accepted? 

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, Danthai said:

Any indication that next year the combination method will be allowed with money in bank and monthly deposits to account might be accepted? 

No new rules have been published.

[BoBoTheClown]

59 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I can't imagine that 65,000 must be transfered each month. Do you really think they will reject a one time transfer of B780,000, or quarterly transfers of B195,000?

Yes, they would. Anyway 780,000 is 20,000 baht short. 

 

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, BoBoTheClown said:

Yes, they would. Anyway 780,000 is 20,000 baht short. 

 

780k is 12x65k, 780k is the correct amount for income method.

[Jeffrey346]

6 minutes ago, BoBoTheClown said:

Yes, they would. Anyway 780,000 is 20,000 baht short. 

 

65 x 12 = 780

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I can't imagine that 65,000 must be transfered each month. Do you really think they will reject a one time transfer of B780,000, or quarterly transfers of B195,000?

Quarterly might be accepted.

I cannot see them accepting a one time transfer of 780k baht. Rather than trying that it would be better to just add 20k baht to it and put it in the bank 3 months before doing the application.

[JTXR]

Although this is anecdotal evidence from one IO at one location, it was well presented and thorough.  Thanks for posting it. 

Until we get clear, official, published guidance from TI, we'll be collecting a lot of individual data points.  I understand it's hearsay, but I appreciate posts like this one, obviously an honest attempt to communicate information rather than a bunch of speculation and insults directed at TI.

 

 

[wgdanson]

12 hours ago, BoBoTheClown said:

The rules say 65,000 baht per month. The idea is consistency of income. 

That's OK until you have a pension plan which pays out quarterly. I guess then you would have to keep it in a UK or foreign currency account, and transfer 65k each month consistently.

 

Sorry, already been mentioned earlier. Shut up William !

Edited November 19, 2018 by wgdanson

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I can't imagine that 65,000 must be transfered each month. Do you really think they will reject a one time transfer of B780,000, or quarterly transfers of B195,000?

If they accept a one off transfer of 780k then that removes the 800k seasoning requirement. why put 800 in the bank for 90 days when you can put 780 in the bank the day before your extension.

[Danthai]

Thank you.

[Joe Mcseismic]

If I go the 800k lump sum for the retirement extension, I have to season for three months.

If, after the first month, I accidentally spend too much and my account balance is one Baht shy of 800k. Then, the next day, I add another million Baht; my extension will be turned down in Phuket.

So, yes, they will deny several lump sums. If they say a minimum of 65k per month, they mean exactly that. 

[Danthai]

38 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

No new rules have been published.

Thank you Jeffrey.

[DrJack54]

The OP did good job relating his experience. Thankyou.

On slightly different side to the changes policy, I really wonder what will be situation with the many people that in past have been getting "around some requirements"

I go to udon every month and hang out with guys that live there in the day/night area. Many many just say to me "oh my agent does all that" lot/some of these guys don't have great deal of money. I recall years ago when I obtained first annual extension of "permission of stay" my condo owner gave me name of an agent (UK guy) who I enquired about. Nice fella he was going to do it all for me. The 800k etc. I did need to turn up to bkk imm but rest was all done. Think it may have been 25k for the service. I opted to do it myself "by the books" and rest is history several extensions later. 

Why long winded story....I'm just curious what some folk plan to do in future. Coincidentally I'm flying to udon later today and will use op informative post to ask about what some guys do with there extensions and plans for next one.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Danthai said:

Any indication that next year the combination method will be allowed with money in bank and monthly deposits to account might be accepted? 

not sure how that would work

 

Imagine for 6 months (or even 12 months 33k) you transfer 66k each month totaling 400k and you leave the balance (400k) in the bank for 3 months prior to extension application - that technically would be income of 400k and a balance of 400k but it also only totals 400k for the whole year.

 

 

Combo possibility

One possibility would be the income in one account but always retaining a 400k balance in a different account (easier to work out) so in effect you have an account that always has 400k+ balance and a working account that sees 400k lodged over the year with withdrawals - That could work and provide an easy solution

 

Very simple to have 2 bank accounts

 

That is pretty much what I do now to renew my extension for 800k baht but would be slightly different in that the only balance you have to maintain would be 400k and your lodgments over the year also equal to 400k would be lodgement and withdrawal over 12 months 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by smedly