Copy shop next to Jomtien IO is "certifying" Income documents

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Couldn't this turn around and bite you in the rear later if the copy shop and or immigration fall foul of each other? There would be no proper finance compliance documents on record of the Non Imm extension holder and other Imm officers might come knocking on your door? Besides losing the copy shops extortionate fee, it could get a lot worse for the extension holder? 

My thoughts exactly. If this system falls down, the extension holder could find themself in detention or on a plane out of Thailand, with no recourse.

[Vacuum]

52 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I guess anybody can certify and you can do a self-certification also. 

Of course, just hand over the requested dough to the IO.

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Couldn't this turn around and bite you in the rear later if the copy shop and or immigration fall foul of each other? There would be no proper finance compliance documents on record of the Non Imm extension holder and other Imm officers might come knocking on your door? Besides losing the copy shops extortionate fee, it could get a lot worse for the extension holder? 

My thoughts exactly. If this system falls down, the extension holder could find themself in detention or on a plane out of Thailand, with no recourse.

[KhunFred]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My thoughts exactly. If this system falls down, the extension holder could find themself in detention or on a plane out of Thailand, with no recourse.

Astonishing reliance on western concepts of law in a country that does not recognize such concepts. If they grant your extension, it is unlikely that it will be rescinded. Such an action defies common sense.  The Embassy Letters were ALSO not "legitimate" because they could not and would not GUARANTEE that income statements were true. That is not the mission of an embassy. Thai Immigration pushed too hard and asked for too much and the response of the embassies was to tell them to stuff it, thereby throwing their own citizens out of a method of income verification. The best verification is having a Thai official who can READ the financial information supplied by the applicant and determine if it is real or counterfeit. Government documents and those from annuities are usually extremely verifiable with an email or a phone call. Many online sources to verify, as well. Don't overthink this. Many are making this harder than it has to be.

[onera1961]

25 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

They are not certifying income they are getting extension for a fee.

With legitimate seasoned money? For 10K, it is is a expensive service, I guess. Even though doing it is hassle free If 10K also, includes no money in the bank, then I would say OMG it is the cheapest I've seen so far. What happened? 

[KhunFred]

4 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

With legitimate seasoned money? For 10K, it is is a expensive service, I guess. No need for hassle with Immigration. If 10K also, includes no money in the bank, then I would say OMG it is the cheapest I've seen so far. What happened? 

COMPETITION happened. It is STILL not cheap enough. There is plenty of visa work for any "agency" or anyone who wants to CALL themselves an agency. The whole system is corrupt and shaky from top to bottom and money is changing hands so fast that no one can keep track of it. Signs go up that say "No tips" and other avenues open to grease the IO palm.  Not even the Soviet Union had developed endemic corruption to the extent that the Thais have done. They ought to hold seminars to counsel young grifters on the finer arts.

[BigT73]

I was looking at a 1yr ED visa (slightly off topic) and best one I could find was 12k compared to the 20k+ ones.  So I went back to his shop to see what days classes were and he says thats an extra 5k if you actually want to attend classes.  I left without going through with it as I thought if I ever was quizzed by immi I only know a solid 10 words after 8 yrs.  but these shops do exist....

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Government documents and those from annuities are usually extremely verifiable with an email or a phone call.

Sez U?

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Astonishing reliance on western concepts of law in a country that does not recognize such concepts. If they grant your extension, it is unlikely that it will be rescinded. Such an action defies common sense.  The Embassy Letters were ALSO not "legitimate" because they could not and would not GUARANTEE that income statements were true. That is not the mission of an embassy. Thai Immigration pushed too hard and asked for too much and the response of the embassies was to tell them to stuff it, thereby throwing their own citizens out of a method of income verification. The best verification is having a Thai official who can READ the financial information supplied by the applicant and determine if it is real or counterfeit. Government documents and those from annuities are usually extremely verifiable with an email or a phone call. Many online sources to verify, as well. Don't overthink this. Many are making this harder than it has to be.

Its a moot point, at the moment Thai immigration doesnt accept pension letters, bank statments or letters from your mum. It doesnt remotely matter if the IO can read it, verify it, or its tattooed on your arm.

Yes, there are a million ways to verify an income or income document, its a moot point because Thai immigration doesnt accept any documents other than an embassy letter.

 

[watcharacters]

34 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

The best verification is having a Thai official who can READ the financial information supplied by the applicant and determine if it is real or counterfeit.

 

????   Guess we all know that ain't going to happen during the lifetime of any current TVF member.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

What does it mean by certify? Who are they? Are they authorized by immigration to check your documents and certify?

"Certify" in this context, is likely roughly translated as, "Deemed acceptable, by being accompanied by a Brown Envelope."

 

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

I read so many posts of guys struggling with their visa or whatever government thing they are dealing with and it’s always because they are trying to do things the proper way. 

It sounds like you have read my posts (sigh).  But many people can get things done properly, which creates the illusion that everyone can do it everywhere.  In Bangkok's Chang Wattana, for example, it seems one can do every process "the right way" without issue.

 

I am sure you have also read other's posts which read, "I never had to bribe / pay-agent for my proper extensions in X-years here."  And it's true - only a fraction are targeted/forced to pay bribes to stay - and who is targeted varies by immigration-office. 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Report from a fellow expat is that the copy shop next to Jomtien IO is charging 10 thousand baht to "certify" your income documents.

The only thing their probably 'certifying' is that your officially declared insane.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

I read so many posts of guys struggling with their visa or whatever government thing they are dealing with and it’s always because they are trying to do things the proper way.

 

News flash, look around you, NOTHING is done the proper way here.

For your information, everything I do is done strictly by the book. My visa extension is submitted at the correct time with all the required documents (which are very easy to obtain) and I have never had the slightest difficulty in getting the extension I expected to get and for the minimum official price, with no extra costs or fees or bribes of any type. All done entirely by me without the assistance of any sort of agent or intermediary of any type. And the entire procedure this year took me well under one hour.

 

The same applies to my 90-day reporting - which only takes minutes - and also to my yearly tax return here which took me about 30 minutes.

 

If I can do it anyone can.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

We need more competition to get the price down to a reasonable level.

There's no such thing as competition in Thailand, if someone finds out another company is offering the services at a higher price then they will increase their price to match.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, dcnx said:

And yet the shop outside is full of people making copies (and taking photos).

So now we know that many people who visit immigration are rather stupid. What else is new?

[KittenKong]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There's no such thing as competition in Thailand, if someone finds out another company is offering the services at a higher price then they will increase their price to match.

On the contrary, for photocopies you have at least 4 options that I am aware of:

 

1. You can pay 3B each inside Immigration.

2. You can pay 5B each just outside Immigration.

3. You can pay 2B each at the Kodak shop at the bottom of Soi 5.

4. You can pay 1B each or less at a copy shop on Thepprasit.

 

Similar options are available for photos, with the Kodak shop being far and away the cheapest that I know of in the area.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, yodsak said:

exempt or tourist visa,  convert to non-o then retirement, [15 mths stamp] 21,500.

  tick tock charges 25k for the same.  

retirement only 12,900.  or 15k @ tick tock

I will check about this new service,  good news if it exists,

HTH

Someone posted a 40K offer from there, if I recall correctly - but I perhaps it was for non-o stamp plus marriage-based extension.  That would be 2 "difficult desks" in a row, which would cost more to get through the system.

 

The retirement-desk in Jomtien is easy-going - probably because they have massive volume, so do not request as much 'extra', per agent-submitted application.

[LongTimeLurker]

4 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

On the contrary, for photocopies you have at least 4 options that I am aware of:

 

1. You can pay 3B each inside Immigration.

2. You can pay 5B each just outside Immigration.

3. You can pay 2B each at the Kodak shop at the bottom of Soi 5.

4. You can pay 1B each or less at a copy shop on Thepprasit.

 

Similar options are available for photos, with the Kodak shop being far and away the cheapest that I know of in the area.

 

I was referring more to the x thousands of Baht being charged by the agents.

 

I always use the copy shop that's at the beginning of the block on Soi 5, in the block the British Consular office used to be.

 

Purely because they are empty and close by, not for a couple of Baht saving.

[bkk6060]

13 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

On the contrary, for photocopies you have at least 4 options that I am aware of:

 

1. You can pay 3B each inside Immigration.

2. You can pay 5B each just outside Immigration.

3. You can pay 2B each at the Kodak shop at the bottom of Soi 5.

4. You can pay 1B each or less at a copy shop on Thepprasit.

 

Similar options are available for photos, with the Kodak shop being far and away the cheapest that I know of in the area.

 

Or, do it at home.

Wonder how much is a piece of paper and the electricity? ????

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Or, do it at home.

Wonder how much is a piece of paper and the electricity? ????

And the ink, not cheap those cartridges!

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

Astonishing reliance on western concepts of law in a country that does not recognize such concepts. If they grant your extension, it is unlikely that it will be rescinded.

Not so sure of that. It could just take a "little shakedown" of Jomtien on BJ's part to result in a number of Pattayan non-immigrants being banged up in the IDC pending deportation on account of possessing what are, in effect, FAKE extension of stay stamps!

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

For your information, everything I do is done strictly by the book. My visa extension is submitted at the correct time with all the required documents (which are very easy to obtain) and I have never had the slightest difficulty in getting the extension I expected to get and for the minimum official price, with no extra costs or fees or bribes of any type. All done entirely by me without the assistance of any sort of agent or intermediary of any type. And the entire procedure this year took me well under one hour.

 

The same applies to my 90-day reporting - which only takes minutes - and also to my yearly tax return here which took me about 30 minutes. 

 

If I can do it anyone can.

I am glad it has worked this way for you so far.  But for extensions, "anyone" can not count on that type of service "everywhere."  The experience even differs by which service in the same office. 

 

One can have every required document, dressed appropriately - even smiling and friendly - but it doesn't matter if the desk where you are applying is not interested in those things.  The "required documents" are often varied with each attempt for the same service, until you run out of "permitted-stay" - even if you start the process early.

 

Some IOs / desks / offices are honest, and some aren't.   Your only workaround when they are not honest, is to move - to live in the service-area of another office.

[champers]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

The walls have ears.

Walls put them in their sausages.

[johng]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

The walls have ears.

I think the Thai version is  "The pineapple has lots of eyes"

[KittenKong]

28 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I was referring more to the x thousands of Baht being charged by the agents.

That's a different thing. There will be a minimum price for that simply because a large part of the fee surely goes to whichever Immigration agents signs off on the extension. They probably wont be undercutting each other. The actual price requested by agents for that seems to be anywhere between about 13,000B and 25,000B.

[MJKT2014]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

If they grant your extension, it is unlikely that it will be rescinded. Such an action defies common sense. 

Common sense to me would be following the immigration law for annual extensions i.e. having the monthly income or yearly 3 month balance in the extenders Thai bank. Going to a knock off shop next door to get it fixed for a rip off fee with no money in your Thai bank defies common sense to me. If the the extension has gone into a passport by some IO bending the rules, why wouldn't it be at risk of being rescinded? 

[bkk6060]

10 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

That's a different thing. There will be a minimum price for that simply because a large part of the fee surely goes to whichever Immigration agents signs off on the extension. 

Not totally disagreeing.

Just to add, the money obtained from agents is huge.

Especially in a place like Jomtien.

My source has told me it is collected and basically put in a pot.

Once a month the IO's get their cash "bonus" that will inciude everyone working in that office, not just the IO you see at the desks.

This is the same basic distribution throughout the country.

Just to add, working immigration is one of the most sought after RTP position.

Any wonder why?

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There's no such thing as competition in Thailand, if someone finds out another company is offering the services at a higher price then they will increase their price to match.

Nonsense post.

[Golden Triangle]

For the past  7 years I have been legal and above board with my yearly extensions, my last one gave me the most hassle I have ever had, I did comment on it at the time here on TVF, I vowed then that my next one would be via an agent as I refuse be abused and subjected to petty comments from someone who clearly considered themselves superior ( purely because of their position of power) the power to issue or decline my extension eventhough all my paperwork was in order and 100% Kosher.

 

So rather than jump through hoops, bow & scrape, smile through adversity, grit teeth etc etc I will cough up the not unreasonable sum of 14k and let an agent handle it, afterall, the stamp & signature on the extension are real enough and if immigration have no scruples why should I ??

 

 

 

 

 

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

For the past  7 years I have been legal and above board with my yearly extensions, my last one gave me the most hassle I have ever had, I did comment on it at the time here on TVF, I vowed then that my next one would be via an agent as I refuse be abused and subjected to petty comments from someone who clearly considered themselves superior ( purely because of their position of power) the power to issue or decline my extension eventhough all my paperwork was in order and 100% Kosher.

 

So rather than jump through hoops, bow & scrape, smile through adversity, grit teeth etc etc I will cough up the not unreasonable sum of 14k and let an agent handle it, afterall, the stamp & signature on the extension are real enough and if immigration have no scruples why should I ??

 

 

 

 

 

I don't blame you sounds like a smart move to me.