Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

You must be new to the Brexit threads, so I'll take a minute to explain.

 

I had a great education for which I am very gratful, and I still read extensively to keep abreast of things and also to investigate matters that I am not au fait with.

 

This is not to do with intelligence per se but more to do with education and aquired knowledge. Of course intelligence is required to interpret all this.

 

No, wishing to remain is correlated closely with tertiary education.

 

To answer your question, no, I have never considered that I know more than I do. How about you?

 

BTW I may well be quite righteous but I am not self righteous which is probably what you meant. At least I know the difference.

 

Now, please, back to specifics.

Your inferiority complex is showing.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Krataiboy

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I did not repeat that , I did not repeat that "We still rule the waves and the sun never sets"

I did not even say that , let alone repeat it .

That is a misquote and you are suggesting that I have a colonist mindset .

 

 Look up the meaning of quote, then look up the meaning of critique.

 

Then look up the meaning of "Methinks you protest too much!"

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by 7by7
Addendum

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, bannork said:

So when the people of the UK voted to leave the EU, it was not possible for them to know the consequences of that momentous decision?

That sounds extremely foolish.

The same can be said, regarding the 1975 referendum for the trading union called the EEC. Not only did we not know the disasterouse consequences of our vote, but we were deceived and lied to by our political class and the establishment.

 One of the few exceptions was :- 

 

 

 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

There were faults from both campaigns.

 

Remain concentrated too much on what we would lose by leaving and not enough on what we would keep by remaining.

 

Vote.Leave painted a pie in the sky picture of the UK if we left, pie in the sky because that convinced people that leaving would mean we'd only ditch the bits of EU membership we didn't like, but keep all the bits we did.

 

Leave.EU played mainly on people's anti immigrant xenophobia, and not just EEA immigrants. Remember this poster:

Not many Europeans in that queue!

 

But it worked on some:

 

 

 

 

An alternative view.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Then why haven't their MEPs all resigned?

 

Couldn't be anything to do with their inflated salaries and generous expense, not to mention the large pensions they'll receive post Brexit, could it?

 

 They are an exception, in that they are trying to make themselves redundant, for the benefit of the U.K.

 Other politician, past and present have other reasons for wanting the U.K to remain in the E.u.

 

 

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

So let's listen to those who are familiar with the inner workings on international trade deals

 

Not exactly an independent and unbiased view. Sir Ivan is a fanatical Remainer and Europhile. Before stepping down as Britain's Ambassador to the EU, he was accused of sabotaging David Cameron's bid to achieve a far-reaching negotiatioon which could have made an EU referendum unnecessary.

Also worth noting that that the Institute's so-called 'Brexit Blog' is funded by (you've guessed it!) the European Commission.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

Your inferiority complex is showing.

Thanks! I'll tuck it in.

[aright]

There are concerns at the heart of Brussels that upcoming elections could radically change the make-up of the EU.

Amid a wave of anti-EU sentiment across many of the 28 member states, it's expected that the upcoming elections in May — which elects representatives to the European Parliament — will see support for parties that have railed against the institution.

"We might be the last (European) Commission that really is made up of people, who really believe in Europe," Cecilia Malmstrom, the European commissioner for trade, said at a panel at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/wef-europe-could-change-at-may-elections-malmstrom-says.html

Edited January 26, 2019 by aright

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, sanemax said:

So , if the general consensus was that the British public were unaware of what the referendum wasall about , those that voted for Remain, were also ignorant ?

   Or are you just saying that it was just the Brexiters that were ignorant and the Remainers were well informed ?

Not trying to say that at all, you are free to believe that it would be a logical move to change from an environment that created the 5th largest economy into the unknown. As I said logic does not come into it, it was an emotional decision.

My own view is based on experience, I was exporting before and after the single market and know for a fact which was better, you can argue the toss but you cannot change that experience.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, talahtnut said:

So sorry you didn't like my opinion in reply to your

hypothetical, utterly pointless question on a 'reunification

referendum', however issuing insults can be taken as

a sure sign of the frustration of losing.

Off at a tangent again, it wasn't my "hypothetical, utterly pointless question on a 'reunification

referendum',"

Would appear that following the topic was also a bit too difficult.

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, sanemax said:

I did not repeat that , I did not repeat that "We still rule the waves and the sun never sets"

I did not even say that , let alone repeat it .

That is a misquote and you are suggesting that I have a colonist mindset .

 

Is a colonist like a proctologist?

 

I hate to think what a colonist mindset is ????

Edited January 27, 2019 by Grouse

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, aright said:

I saw it. A few people out of 60 million said they didn't understand Brexit and from that you conclude the general public has a lack of understanding and didn't know what they were voting for. Is this the pearls of evidence LG asked for? I wouldn't go anywhere near statistics or BBC programmes about Brexit if I were you. Next thing you will be telling us you once had a Chinese mobile phone with a duff battery and your young niece had a bad experience in China therefore China is rubbish. 

Desperation or what.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, aright said:

There are concerns at the heart of Brussels that upcoming elections could radically change the make-up of the EU.

Amid a wave of anti-EU sentiment across many of the 28 member states, it's expected that the upcoming elections in May — which elects representatives to the European Parliament — will see support for parties that have railed against the institution.

"We might be the last (European) Commission that really is made up of people, who really believe in Europe," Cecilia Malmstrom, the European commissioner for trade, said at a panel at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/wef-europe-could-change-at-may-elections-malmstrom-says.html

That's a good point. The EU may be amenable to some structural change at this time. Possible modification of the Freedom of Movement pillar? Flying buttresses maybe? Anyway, postponing the climax of A50 would be prudent  

[dick dasterdly]

6 hours ago, aright said:

There are concerns at the heart of Brussels that upcoming elections could radically change the make-up of the EU.

Amid a wave of anti-EU sentiment across many of the 28 member states, it's expected that the upcoming elections in May — which elects representatives to the European Parliament — will see support for parties that have railed against the institution.

"We might be the last (European) Commission that really is made up of people, who really believe in Europe," Cecilia Malmstrom, the European commissioner for trade, said at a panel at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/wef-europe-could-change-at-may-elections-malmstrom-says.html

This sounds like good news BUT, we all know that power corrupts .

 

You can pretty much guarantee (IMO) that once elected as MEPs (and receiving the multiple financial rewards) - they will try to pretend that they are still anti-eu, whilst acting differently......

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

This sounds like good news BUT, we all know that power corrupts .

 

You can pretty much guarantee (IMO) that once elected as MEPs (and receiving the multiple financial rewards) - they will try to pretend that they are still anti-eu, whilst acting differently......

MEPs get roughly the same salaries as MPs. I don't think that is excessive. I wouldn't do it for that.

 

I do think we all need to be far more careful who we appoint as our representatives. The current crop are crap.

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's a good point. The EU may be amenable to some structural change at this time. Possible modification of the Freedom of Movement pillar? Flying buttresses maybe? Anyway, postponing the climax of A50 would be prudent  

"That's a good point. The EU may be amenable to some structural change at this time. Possible modification of the Freedom of Movement pillar?"

 

This is a hopeful possibility, but I doubt they'll be interested in reducing their power, obscene salary arrangements (including 'expenses'.....) and other financial wasteful practices of the eu after a few months as MEPs?

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"That's a good point. The EU may be amenable to some structural change at this time. Possible modification of the Freedom of Movement pillar?"

 

This is a hopeful possibility, but I doubt they'll be interested in reducing their power, obscene salary arrangements (including 'expenses'.....) and other financial wasteful practices of the eu after a few months as MEPs?

MEP salaries are roughly same as MP salaries. Not excessive by any means. What is unreasonable is the low level of competence in both parliaments; we have ourselves to blame for that.

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

MEP salaries are roughly same as MP salaries. Not excessive by any means. What is unreasonable is the low level of competence in both parliaments; we have ourselves to blame for that.

Only in the wealthiest eu countries - and the expenses paid are even more ridiculous for various reasons....

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, talahtnut said:

 

 

Indeed I can see you are having difficulty, so why don't

you drop your trivial, boring, pathetic bickering?

Would so many of us (myself included!) be so intolerant and occasionally immoderate in our responses to other posters if we were not hiding behind an avatar?

 

Social media generally is a zoo these days, with anonymous, rabid keyboard warriors, entrenched in their echo-chambers, ripping one another apart with impunity. There seems little doubt that this non-stop war of words is fuelling polarisation across societies and contributing to soaring mental health problems, particularly among the young. 

 

Hopefully, no ThaiVisa members have decided to end it all after being rubbished online. But in the interest of a more civilised discourse, how many of us would favour a rule change obliging us to contribute using our real names?

 

Some may argue pseudonyms are needed to avoid retaliation by Big Brother. But isn't that what the Moderators are there for? In any case, if "they" really wanted to discover our true identities, does anybody seriously imagine they couldn't?

 

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Would so many of us (myself included!) be so intolerant and occasionally immoderate in our responses to other posters if we were not hiding behind an avatar?

 

Social media generally is a zoo these days, with anonymous, rabid keyboard warriors, entrenched in their echo-chambers, ripping one another apart with impunity. There seems little doubt that this non-stop war of words is fuelling polarisation across societies and contributing to soaring mental health problems, particularly among the young. 

 

Hopefully, no ThaiVisa members have decided to end it all after being rubbished online. But in the interest of a more civilised discourse, how many of us would favour a rule change obliging us to contribute using our real names?

 

Some may argue pseudonyms are needed to avoid retaliation by Big Brother. But isn't that what the Moderators are there for? In any case, if "they" really wanted to discover our true identities, does anybody seriously imagine they couldn't?

 

 

Many of my antagonists have disappeared without trace. Whether any of them have gone for the ivory handled revolver and the bottle of scotch I have no idea. We can live in hope! ????

 

incidentally I originally used my full name but was advised to have an Avatar; I suspect mods thought I might up facing said revolver!

 

I do miss the Sgt who was my spell checker. Say hi if you come across him and ask if he's got on top of semi-colons yet? Another budding proctologist you see.

 

Finally, if any "social media" company is found to be a contributing factor in a young person coming to harm, I hope they are fined 1billion for each occurrence followed by a visit to the CEO by Sgt proctologist;

Edited January 27, 2019 by Grouse

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Many of my antagonists have disappeared without trace. Whether any of them have gone for the ivory handled revolver and the bottle of scotch I have no idea. We can live in hope! ????

 

incidentally I originally used my full name but was advised to have an Avatar; I suspect mods thought I might up facing said revolver!

 

I do miss the Sgt who was my spell checker. Say hi if you come across him and ask if he's got on top of semi-colons yet? Another budding proctologist you see.

 

Finally, if any "social media" company is found to be a contributing factor in a young person coming to harm, I hope they are fined 1billion for each occurrence followed by a visit to the CEO by Sgt proctologist;

Never mind Grouse, we all like you really, and we don't

mind if you have trouble with your semis.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

An alternative view.

 Not an alternative to Leave.EU infamous poster of asylum seekers lining up to be allowed into the UK by the EU.

 

And as true!

 

(That's not true at all, if I'm being too subtle for you.)

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nontabury said:

They are an exception, in that they are trying to make themselves redundant, for the benefit of the U.K

And after they have done so they will all happily take their pensions.

 

Not that any of the other MEPs are any different; except they don't have the sanctimonious, holier than thou attitude of the typical UKIP MEP.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:05 PM, sandyf said:

I take it you didn't watch the Victoria Derbyshire programme on Thursday. They had a reporter out on the streets and it was a bit of an eye opener, the lack of understanding among the general public over brexit was quite astounding.

Confirmed without a shadow of doubt that many had no idea what they voted for, and still don't, but quite happy to have their future put in jeopardy without knowing why.

It was always an emotional argument without a solution.

An orchestrated reporter talking to people is hardly evidence. Did you see Sophie Ridge on Sunday. she was in Norfolk talking to Brexiteers. I am not using that as evidence as that would be silly.

As for putting their future in jeopardy. Again pure speculation. Leaving the EU from its bondage and stranglehold is liberation fro many. Often something remain, EU lovers just can't understand ever.

[Laughing Gravy]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:09 PM, dunroaming said:

Exactly.  A mickey Mouse party made up of extremists and not to be taken seriously.

A Mickey Mouse party that took 11 million votes at the GE and lead by Nigel Farage that was instrumental in David Cameron calling for a referendum and sticking to it this time. They were taken very seriously indeed, at that time. Not now though.

[Loiner]

Exactly.  A mickey Mouse party made up of extremists and not to be taken seriously.

Extremists? Only you thinks so because they are right of the loony liberal left.
Third position and 14.1% of the vote in 2015 is not to be sniffed at. If another GE was called we may find the discontent in the country swings towards UKIP again. Just a few more seats could hold the balance of power over LAB or CON. Then you would be taking the party and the voters seriously.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Extremists? Only you thinks so because they are right of the loony liberal left.
Third position and 14.1% of the vote in 2015 is not to be sniffed at. If another GE was called we may find the discontent in the country swings towards UKIP again. Just a few more seats could hold the balance of power over LAB or CON. Then you would be taking the party and the voters seriously.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Quite right and if we had adopted the proportional rep system UKIP would have 82 seats and would have made it the third largest party.

Edited January 28, 2019 by vogie

[Grouse]

May has announced to cabinet office that she will not allow UK to leave with no deal. However she will not state this publicaly according Radio Midnight news. Good.

[Grouse]

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

Quite right and if we had adopted the proportional rep system UKIP would have 82 seats and would have made it the third largest party.

PR is a requirement now. New UKIP can be the UK's Fascist Party. We can tip all the nutters in there where they can be kept and eye on by Robinson AND MI5. Good idea.

 

The EU countries have parties for nutters, why can't we?

Edited January 28, 2019 by Grouse