UK Pension Proof of Income

[LivinLOS]

On 12/1/2018 at 4:08 PM, Greenhill said:

This is correct but I can't understand why the BE doesn't take UK bank statements as 'verifiable proof' of income!    I would think they are very difficult to forge!?

Because deposits into an account do not accurately identify income. 

 

In case thats not screamingly obvious lets give an example.. Suppose you buy an apartment with a mortgage, and rent that apartment, using 2 bank accounts. The rental 'income' shows up in bank statement A and the mortgage expenditure goes out of bank account B. Does the bank statement A truly reflect your net income ?? 

Just showing bank deposits in a single bank account does nothing to show the overall health of your net financial position monthly. This is precisely what the various embassy's are saying, its not practically possible for them to verify the net financial positions of expats from the information given.

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, OJAS said:

The British Embassy have been pretty adept at giving out incorrect information since making their announcement - as also evidenced by their BS nonsensical claim that monthly income sighted in a Thai bank account will, in future, be acceptable to Immigration without a letter!

 

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What evidence can you present in support of this comment? And I mean EVIDENCE, not yet more rumour and hearsay.

 

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Well they have stated, as the post said, that monthly income in a Thai bank account will be accepted as proof of income, that isn't official TI info (yet) and most IO's still say "where's the embassy letter''. There are regulations and reality.

In other words, there is no evidence. The only proof you offer up is "most IO's still say 'where's the embassy letter''.

 

As I very much doubt whether there have actually been many, if any attempts to obtain an income based extension without the letter, that comment has no substance.

 

Oh, there was one reported attempt up in Mukdahan. And it was, apparently, successful.

 

Have a nice day.

 

ML

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What evidence can you present in support of this comment? And I mean EVIDENCE, not yet more rumour and hearsay.

Had you been bothered to undertake what is clearly a monumental task for you of checking the Embassy's website at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#announcement, you would have seen clear evidence on there of their BS claim. I would refer you to the particular extracts from the Embassy's announcement which I have indicated in bold below in this connection.

 

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB.

 

 

[sumrit]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Because deposits into an account do not accurately identify income. 

 

In case thats not screamingly obvious lets give an example.. Suppose you buy an apartment with a mortgage, and rent that apartment, using 2 bank accounts. The rental 'income' shows up in bank statement A and the mortgage expenditure goes out of bank account B. Does the bank statement A truly reflect your net income ?? 

Just showing bank deposits in a single bank account does nothing to show the overall health of your net financial position monthly. This is precisely what the various embassy's are saying, its not practically possible for them to verify the net financial positions of expats from the information given.

I know somebody who's been doing this for many years, ever since the drop in the value of the £ meant his pension was below 65k baht. And his net income after paying the mortgage is just £100.

 

But the extension of stay requirements only specify income, it doesn't mention expenditure.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

What evidence can you present in support of this comment? And I mean EVIDENCE, not yet more rumour and hearsay.

 

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Had you been bothered to undertake what is clearly a monumental task for you of checking the Embassy's website at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#announcement, you would have seen clear evidence on there of their BS claim. I would refer you to the particular extracts from the Embassy's announcement which I have indicated in bold below in this connection.

 

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB.

 

 

Sorry OJAS, did you misunderstand my last message?

 

I requested to see evidence that the monthly income will no longer be available.

 

This quote from the BE website, (which I have read of course) would very strongly suggest the opposite is true.

 

Could you explain this anomaly please.

 

[superal]

4 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Because deposits into an account do not accurately identify income. 

 

In case thats not screamingly obvious lets give an example.. Suppose you buy an apartment with a mortgage, and rent that apartment, using 2 bank accounts. The rental 'income' shows up in bank statement A and the mortgage expenditure goes out of bank account B. Does the bank statement A truly reflect your net income ?? 

Just showing bank deposits in a single bank account does nothing to show the overall health of your net financial position monthly. This is precisely what the various embassy's are saying, its not practically possible for them to verify the net financial positions of expats from the information given.

Good point however the defunct POI worked well and did for a number of years until it was challenged for its accuracy & reliability . So why is it that some embassies are still able to continue with the same system and others excluded ?  Proof of income by way of bank statements is workable if the standard application form gave permission to the embassies to access the applicants financial standing , can be a quick process check given to a 3rd party to carry out .  It works back in the UK where a  resident has to prove 18k pounds p/a income before his Thai wife can be allowed to join him .

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Sorry OJAS, did you misunderstand my last message?

 

I requested to see evidence that the monthly income will no longer be available.

 

This quote from the BE website, (which I have read of course) would very strongly suggest the opposite is true.

 

Could you explain this anomaly please.

 

The monthly income method is still viable as long as you have an embassy letter, what an embassy says is just a silent fahrt in the stillness of the cosmos, what your local IO says is what matters, my IO knows now of the situation but insists on an embassy letter because they have no other orders from TI.

[evadgib]

On 12/1/2018 at 1:00 PM, clifric said:

The answer was that they could not check this with HMRC and DWP as it was against the Data Protection Act. I advised them that they were giving out incorrect information as they copuld check with those departments provided I gave written permission for them to do so. Silence from the Embassy and my MP.

How many man hours would such folly take and what benefit would it provide for HMG?

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

I know somebody who's been doing this for many years, ever since the drop in the value of the £ meant his pension was below 65k baht. And his net income after paying the mortgage is just £100.

 

But the extension of stay requirements only specify income, it doesn't mention expenditure.

And this is exactly what immigration are closing down, and what embassy's cannot verify. 

 

 

[Moonlover]

18 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The monthly income method is still viable as long as you have an embassy letter, what an embassy says is just a silent fahrt in the stillness of the cosmos, what your local IO says is what matters, my IO knows now of the situation but insists on an embassy letter because they have no other orders from TI.

In simple terms 'We are awaiting further instructions'. Nothing very surprising about that is there?

 

And as embassy letters are going to be around for about 6 months (apart from the poor Danes of course) TI have plenty of time to get their act together.

 

Come to think of it, the Danish embassy could well have done us all a favour in 'persuading' TI to get a move on.

 

I'm not due until August and I'm quite confident that all will resolved by then.

 

ML

[jimn]

 

Had you been bothered to undertake what is clearly a monumental task for you of checking the Embassy's website at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#announcement, you would have seen clear evidence on there of their BS claim. I would refer you to the particular extracts from the Embassy's announcement which I have indicated in bold below in this connection.

 

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB.

 

 

Have you taken the time to understand what this thread is about. The OP asked what proof of income does he have to provide to get the British Embassy income letter. Its not about what will be accepted by Thai Immigration after the letters are stopped.

[jacko45k]

 

Have you taken the time to understand what this thread is about. The OP asked what proof of income does he have to provide to get the British Embassy income letter. Its not about what will be accepted by Thai Immigration after the letters are stopped.

Better get an answer soon, as there are only 9 days left to do it!

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Better get an answer soon, as there are only 9 days left to do it!

For the sake of 50 quid i have applied for one even if, as expected, it proves to be useless by the time I renew my extn after songkran.

[soalbundy]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:10 AM, LivinLOS said:

Because deposits into an account do not accurately identify income. 

 

In case thats not screamingly obvious lets give an example.. Suppose you buy an apartment with a mortgage, and rent that apartment, using 2 bank accounts. The rental 'income' shows up in bank statement A and the mortgage expenditure goes out of bank account B. Does the bank statement A truly reflect your net income ?? 

Just showing bank deposits in a single bank account does nothing to show the overall health of your net financial position monthly. This is precisely what the various embassy's are saying, its not practically possible for them to verify the net financial positions of expats from the information given.

I don't think what you spend your income on bothers the IO, you could booze it away in one week and live off mama noodles for three weeks or pay off a mortgage, they want to see what is coming in.

[luckyluke]

Exactly,

same as having 400/800000 on a Thai bankbook and living on 300 ThB a day, if you wish.

 

 

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, evadgib said:

For the sake of 50 quid i have applied for one even if, as expected, it proves to be useless by the time I renew my extn after songkran.

If soon after Songkran I expect it will be OK, I still believe many IOs will go along with the 6 months validity.