Income Affidavit for annual Retirement extension

[davhend25]

Hello all,

 

I know this topic has been beat to death, but here is my thinking. I've read all the "hand-outs" and "fact sheets" and have visited the Thai Immigration website.

 

My retirement extension expires in early June of 2019. When I extended it last June 2018 at the IO in Chanthaburi City, I presented them with the standard U.S. Embassy monthly income verification affidavit. They seemed okay with it, but asked for supporting documentation to the amount stated on the affidavit. This was my first extension without an agent, so to be cautious, I brought with me online bank statement from my U.S. bank where all of my retirement payments are direct deposited. It was easy to see that the monthly pension and Social Security deposits added up to the total monthly amount stated on the affidavit. 

 

I was all set to make the arduous four hour bus ride to Bangkok to get an affidavit for my June 2019 extension (which I could do in May) as the affidavit would only be 5 months old and still valid.  But if the U.S. Embassy and Thai Immigration are categorically stating that this affidavit will no longer be required in 2019 going forward, what is the point in getting one now for next year's renewal?

 

I have seen nothing from the U.S. Embassy or Thai Immigration to indicate the demise of the monthly income method as one of the two principal ways of meeting the Thai income requirements. In which case I will need to provide documentation to support my claim of 65,000 Thai baht or more of monthly income. I can do this easily with bank statements and 1099's from my U.S. pensions. I also have seen nothing to indicate that this monthly income has to be deposited into a Thai bank, just proof that I am receiving it. 

 

Since the income affidavits will no longer be required next year, why go to the extreme inconvenience of obtaining one now. Just be sure you have as much supporting documentation as is practical when you apply for your 2019 annual Retirement Extension. Immigration won't need (or want) the income affidavit. 

 

I can still go get one, here in December, but again, at great inconvenience. I don't see the point. Any thoughts or advice would be welcome.   

[JLCrab]

 

I also have seen nothing to indicate that this monthly income has to be deposited into a Thai bank, just proof that I am receiving it. 

I would not count on ever being able to get an extension via monthly income route based solely upon income source documents.

[tropo]

That Phuket Immigration story had you confused due to incorrect wording. It should have read: "income letter not accepted", rather than "income letter not required". Here's the wording that made up the backbone of that particular media report:

 

“Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Lt Col Archeep Jaroensuntisuk explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22).

“However, the foreigner applying for the visa (or permit-to-stay) will still have to prove that they have the funds to stay in the country, such as by showing bank statements that prove the foreigner has B800,000 in a Thai bank account,” he said.

 

He's saying they need to see 800k in a Thai bank account with no other options suggested.

That Phuket office is proving to be very harsh. There's a good chance the rest of the nation won't follow their lead. Currently, only 4 embassies have discontinued offering letters (by varying cut-off dates), so what of the rest of the world's embassies?

 

The only fact I know is that no one knows for sure what is going to happen next year.

 

In the meanwhile, I'll be getting my letter soon to use at the end of June for a July extension application, hoping they will be accepted at that stage. I wouldn't wait for answers - get it while you can. The Australian Embassy stop providing "letters" as of January 7 (they say from January 7), so that leaves only January 2, 3 and 4 to get "letters". I noticed they have added an extra 6 appointment slots on those 3 days, starting at 8:30 am instead of 10 am. They're obviously expecting a rush, although nearly all the slots are still available.

Edited December 3, 2018 by tropo

[steve187]

beat to death and yet you ask a question that has been posed over and over again, no-one has the answer. 

An income letter from embassy is still required until immigration come up with another method. 

i would get the letter, regardless of the inconvenience it causes, better to have than not to have at this time, in theory you should still be able to use it.

[ubonjoe]

I suggest you get a income affidavit that will be valid for 6 months from the date it is done. 

There is a consular outreach in Pattaya on the 12th where you could get it if the date you will do your extension is within 6 months of that day.

[thailand49]

I've read in the U.S. Embassy ACS notice to their citizens Online that they are working with Social Security to put in place a system in conjunction with Bangkok Bank so your S.S. funds can be deposited which stated should be in place late January 2019?  Although in general majority of citizen receiving S.S. amount fall short of the 65,000 baht a month it gets you halfway and if you are married that gets you even closer for some?

Edited December 4, 2018 by thailand49

[ubonjoe]

 

I've read in the U.S. Embassy ACS notice to their citizens Online that they are working with Social Security to put in place a system in conjunction with Bangkok Bank so your S.S. funds can be deposited which stated should be in place late January 2019?  Although in general majority of citizen receiving S.S. amount fall short of the 65,000 baht a month it gets you halfway and if you are married that gets you even closer for some?

Direct deposit to a Bangkok Bank account via their New York branch has been possible for many years now.

See: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

Effective this month Thailand is now on the SSA's list of countries for International Direct Deposits.

Topic here about it. 

 

[aussieinphuket]

now i know why i took Thai Elite for my wife and i for 5 years to see what is going on with all these Immigration issues xx

[DrJack54]

You have plenty of time. Put 800k in your Thai bankbook. You won't need 4 hour trip and until all is settled with the ,"letter confusion" your home free.

[DrJack54]

 

now i know why i took Thai Elite for my wife and i for 5 years to see what is going on with all these Immigration issues xx

Lot of these threads are from members just able to meet monthly income levels let alone 800k for bank deposit and certainly not 500k for the elite.

[JackThompson]

 

now i know why i took Thai Elite for my wife and i for 5 years to see what is going on with all these Immigration issues xx

One can hardly blame you - though you could have spent only 50K/yr or so having an agent achieve a similar result for the two of you. 

 

But your choice makes a strong case for why immigration is making trouble for legit, in-person applicants in the first place - it has the desired effect - more elite-visas sold and more applicants shifted to agents.

[phuketrichard]

i, for one am not counting on the letter, ( which have been using the combo  method for 12 years)  being accepted for end of june renewal.

if u do and they dont accept it, ur screwed,

Better to put the 800,000 in the bank 3 months in advance and save the $50 for the letter.

 

Truth of the matter;

If you dont have the 800,000 or cant get it....make plans to be heading out

Edited December 4, 2018 by phuketrichard

[JLCrab]

 

more applicants shifted to agents.

I love that euphemism 'use an agent'. You are paying a bribe.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

I love that euphemism 'use an agent'. You are paying a bribe.

So many posts, from a few members, pushing to use Agents, that I would not be surprised that some of these members have interest in such illegal practice.... by example a wife running a "Visa Agency"

[thailand49]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Direct deposit to a Bangkok Bank account via their New York branch has been possible for many years now.

See: https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

Effective this month Thailand is now on the SSA's list of countries for International Direct Deposits.

Topic here about it. 

 

Thanks. the notice made it sound " working will be in affect late January "  

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

I love that euphemism 'use an agent'. You are paying a bribe.

If it was a case of paying a bribe or being parted from their wife and kids then I wouldn't condemn anyone for paying a bribe. After all, those of us who have been legally using the income method have been well and truly shafted at short notice, and neither the embassies or Thai Immigration seem bothered. 

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, jesimps said:

If it was a case of paying a bribe or being parted from their wife and kids then I wouldn't condemn anyone for paying a bribe.

I don't condemn anyone if they feel their only option is -- if it really is their only option -- to pay a bribe as long as they don't spout pleasantries about it being something other than that.

[luckyluke]

70 years old, 18 years in Thailand, I transfer monthly the equivalent of 75000 ThB from Belgium and spend them.

I hope I can continue to do so and to get further on an extension of stay based on income.

It will be nonsense I will have to use a dodgy agent to be able to stay here.

But I know that the Thais not always have the same concept about what common sense is.

[pattayadgw]

The lady I've used for past years (she previously worked at immigration for 10 years+) that I pay for doing the leg work has told me in recent days:  go get your stat dec before years out and I can get your RV extension with that in March.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, JLCrab said:

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

If it was a case of paying a bribe or being parted from their wife and kids then I wouldn't condemn anyone for paying a bribe.

I don't condemn anyone if they feel their only option is -- if it really is their only option -- to pay a bribe as long as they don't spout pleasantries about it being something other than that.

It's hardly a bribe. It's a service offered for a set fee, and the department condones it. A bribe is paid to influence or entice an official to bend the rules. That is not the case here. 

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

It's hardly a bribe. It's a service offered for a set fee

The set fee per Ministerial Regulation as in Section 35 of the Immigration Act is 1900 baht. Anything above and beyond that is a bribe.

[LawrenceN]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

That Phuket Immigration story had you confused due to incorrect wording. It should have read: "income letter not accepted", rather than "income letter not required". Here's the wording that made up the backbone of that particular media report:

 

“Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Lt Col Archeep Jaroensuntisuk explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22).

“However, the foreigner applying for the visa (or permit-to-stay) will still have to prove that they have the funds to stay in the country, such as by showing bank statements that prove the foreigner has B800,000 in a Thai bank account,” he said.

 

He's saying they need to see 800k in a Thai bank account with no other options suggested.

Nonsense. Since when does "such as" exclude all other options? He just mentioned it as one option without giving a complete list of all options. Giving an exhaustive list clearly wasn't the intent of the statement. That said, I sure wish they would say publicly that bank statements showing regular monthly deposits will be accepted. They do keep saying over and over that 800,000 in the bank will do it. Yeah, we get that already.  Can't someone in authority publish a list of acceptable documentation?

[tropo]

28 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The set fee per Ministerial Regulation as in Section 35 of the Immigration Act is 1900 baht. Anything above and beyond that is a bribe.

No, it's a fee for services rendered. They offer the service and set the price. 

[tropo]

21 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

Nonsense.  Since when does "such as" exclude all other options? He just mentioned it as one option without giving a complete list of all options. Giving an exhaustive list clearly wasn't the intent of the statement. That said, I sure wish they would say publicly that bank statements showing regular monthly deposits will be accepted. They do keep saying over and over that 800,000 in the bank will do it. Yeah, we get that already.  Can't someone in authority publish a list of acceptable documentation?

 

Nonsense! It's all pretty clear and the headline is nonsense. The rest is a lot of wishful thinking on your part. BTW, I hope you're right.

Edited December 4, 2018 by tropo

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

No, it's a fee for services rendered. They offer the service and set the price. 

But if the service you're paying for with that fee includes an illegal act by the agent/other persons then you are a party to it.

[sumrit]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

No, it's a fee for services rendered. They offer the service and set the price. 

But if the service you're paying for with that fee includes an illegal act by the agent/other persons then you are a party to it.

[JLCrab]

22 minutes ago, tropo said:

52 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The set fee per Ministerial Regulation as in Section 35 of the Immigration Act is 1900 baht. Anything above and beyond that is a bribe.

No, it's a fee for services rendered. They offer the service and set the price

And the services rendered are those services as prescribed in Section 35 of the Immigration Act where it says:

 

The Director General or the competent official deputized by the Director General shall have the authority to permit the alien, who entered to stay temporarily in the Kingdom under Section 34, to remain in the Kingdom under any prescribed conditions. 

 

And the fee for these services rendered is in the Ministerial Regulations as 1900 baht and anything above that is a bribe. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by JLCrab

[LawrenceN]

11 minutes ago, tropo said:

Nonsense! It's all pretty clear and the headline is nonsense. The rest is a lot of wishful thinking on your part. BTW, I hope you're right.

Here's the relevant part, "Of course this letter is no longer needed if the embassy no longer issues it,” Phuket Immigration Deputy Chief Lt Col Archeep Jaroensuntisuk explained to The Phuket News today (Nov 22)."

I stand by my statement. Deputy Chief Archeep is making a logical, reasonable statement. As long as they continue to list ฿65,000 per month as acceptable income, he is implying that the letter is meaningless. Proof of acceptable income is what they're after. That's my interpretation of this mess, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. My extension is due in January, and I'm planning to go with bank statements and retirement account statements only. I also hope I'm right, and acknowledge there's a chance I could be wrong. I'll report on what I learn. Stay tuned!

[davhend25]

1 hour ago, LawrenceN said:

Nonsense. Since when does "such as" exclude all other options? He just mentioned it as one option without giving a complete list of all options. Giving an exhaustive list clearly wasn't the intent of the statement. That said, I sure wish they would say publicly that bank statements showing regular monthly deposits will be accepted. They do keep saying over and over that 800,000 in the bank will do it. Yeah, we get that already.  Can't someone in authority publish a list of acceptable documentation?

I fully agree, "such as" means stating an example of what will work, not necessarily excluding other options, "such as" the monthly income method.  But this option is already clearly stated on the Thai Immigration Bureau's website, https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22. And no mention that it has to be deposited into a Thai bank account.

[JLCrab]

14 hours ago, tropo said:

No, it's a fee for services rendered. They offer the service and set the price. 

Sounds like a mob hit.