UK PM May's government loses contempt vote over Brexit legal advice

[rixalex]

So your contribution to this forum is to copy texts from other sources? How original of you!

Copy text from other sources? What are you talking about?

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[rixalex]

I doubt you have travelled much and certainly not worked in many countries

More ASSumptions and a failure to address any of the points I made.

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[sandyf]

On 12/8/2018 at 8:28 AM, rixalex said:

How would EU people feel if they had to be tested to come to Britain while non EU people could walk in freely?

 

Typical distorted thinking.

The real problem stemmed from a government failure to fund the infrastructure to cater for the increase. Consequently EU people quite entitled to use the services were blamed for clogging the system.

The view that non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders again stems from the UK government.

The EU has respect for family members, the UK government has none.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I don’t.

 

 

Although I really enjoy traveling around Europe as a British citizen.

Living in denial does not deny the facts.

Do you really expect people to believe that your passport does not have European Union on it.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Living in denial does not deny the facts.

Do you really expect people to believe that your passport does not have European Union on it.

 

 

Doesn't matter what it has on it - I am British. I say that not in a nationalistic, jingoistic way - just fact. I don't usually put down English, although I imagine many of my Scottish and Welsh friends will be more specific than British.

 

 

Nowhere have I ever (nor will I do) list my nationality as 'European'.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Living in denial does not deny the facts.

Do you really expect people to believe that your passport does not have European Union on it.

 

Mine says exactly the same but it means nothing to me.

 

I was born,baptised, christened and confirmed as Church of England. I was registered as CoE while in the RAF simply because you could not "not" have a religion. I left all organised religions decades ago as it was my choice.

 

Just because it says European Union on my passport (which was imposed on me) that does not make me a European. I am not and never will be. Just because some civil servant has decided that is what they want me to be, does not make it so. It merely ticks a box for them and does nothing for me.

 

I am British and proud to be so, sub tribe English, sub sub tribe, a man of Wessex, sub sub sub tribe a man of Dorset.

[rixalex]

Typical distorted thinking.
The real problem stemmed from a government failure to fund the infrastructure to cater for the increase. Consequently EU people quite entitled to use the services were blamed for clogging the system.
The view that non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders again stems from the UK government.
The EU has respect for family members, the UK government has none.

And typically you completely fail to address points put to you.

Regarding government's failure to fund the infrastructure to cater for the increase, it might have been a good idea prior to spending public money for the great influx of people that began in the early 2000s, if the politicians had actually included the people whose money it was and who would be directly affected, in debating whether or not this was something they supported or wanted.

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[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Typical distorted thinking.

The real problem stemmed from a government failure to fund the infrastructure to cater for the increase. Consequently EU people quite entitled to use the services were blamed for clogging the system.

The view that non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders again stems from the UK government.

The EU has respect for family members, the UK government has none.

Why on earth should brit. taxpayers have to pay for an increased "infrastructure" to support eu immigrants??

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why on earth should brit. taxpayers have to pay for an increased "infrastructure" to support eu immigrants??

For exactly the same reason if you have population growth through population growth through other means - you have more taxpayers, so get more income from them.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Typical distorted thinking.

The real problem stemmed from a government failure to fund the infrastructure to cater for the increase. Consequently EU people quite entitled to use the services were blamed for clogging the system.

The view that non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders again stems from the UK government.

The EU has respect for family members, the UK government has none.

"The view that non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders again stems from the UK government.

The EU has respect for family members, the UK government has none."

 

Again, I'm missing your point.  The uk govt. has happily accepted the open borders for the eu populace, so why do you think that "it stems from the uk" that "non EU nationals should be treated the same as EU nationals within the EU borders"?

 

Perhaps I'm missing something, but this makes no sense -  as non-eu citizens are treated entirely differently when entering the uk.

 

I'd add, that the uk has far too much respect for never ending 'family members' when it comes to immigration....

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

For exactly the same reason if you have population growth through population growth through other means - you have more taxpayers, so get more income from them.

Except this is not the case when it comes to those being paid minimum wage or less.

 

If unskilled workers from Eastern European countries weren't allowed entry - with a bit of luck wages would increase, allowing brit. unskilled workers a chance to obtain a reasonable, livable (within the uk) wage.

 

And once their wages were forced to increase, even more tax would be paid by the indigenous population.

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except this is not the case when it comes to those being paid minimum wage or less.

 

If unskilled workers from Eastern European countries weren't allowed entry - with a bit of luck wages would increase, allowing brit. unskilled workers a chance to obtain a reasonable, livable (within the uk) wage.

 

And once their wages were forced to increase, even more tax would be paid by the indigenous population.

You assume the ‘British workers’ want those jobs.

 

It has been demonstrated a number of times that’s a shaky assumption.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/niesr-brexit-means-losing-control-for-uk-employers-a7796836.html

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

You assume the ‘British workers’ want those jobs.

 

It has been demonstrated a number of times that’s a shaky assumption.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/niesr-brexit-means-losing-control-for-uk-employers-a7796836.html

If those jobs paid a wage on which brit. workers could live - I'm sure they would do those jobs.

 

As things stand, they are paid a pittance, and so would require additional 'benefits'.

 

Good money for eastern europeans - but those who were born in britain would find it v. difficult/impossible to live on minimum wage at best - without benefits......

 

Of course there's continual propaganda that brits. are lazy, not prepared to work etc.....  which comes from businesses that are only interested in paying as little as possible.....

[Grouse]

22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

If those jobs paid a wage on which brit. workers could live - I'm sure they would do those jobs.

 

As things stand, they are paid a pittance, and so would require additional 'benefits'.

 

Good money for eastern europeans - but those who were born in britain would find it v. difficult/impossible to live on minimum wage at best - without benefits......

 

Of course there's continual propaganda that brits. are lazy, not prepared to work etc.....  which comes from businesses that are only interested in paying as little as possible.....

Hoist and Petard come to mind

 

Brexiters want no trade protection so that we can get the cheapest food and shoes I believe

 

But they don't want to work for the same wages paid in the countries that these products come from

 

let's think about this

 

let's say we enforce the minimum wage GBP 100.00 per day, 25k per annum and remove trade restrictions

 

Imports will rocket and exports will collapse

 

Our own agricultural products will be too expensive and our animal husbandry standards collapse as we can not compete with foreign imports

 

Is that what you really want?

 

The way the pound is going Brexiters should go to language school and apply for jobs in Poland!

[Grouse]

Now I know this will be anathema to Brexiters, but may I recommend the Intelligence Squared debate on BBC this weekend.

 

https://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/the-brexit-deal-decision-time/

 

Excellent, informed debate. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Hoist and Petard come to mind

 

Brexiters want no trade protection so that we can get the cheapest food and shoes I believe

 

But they don't want to work for the same wages paid in the countries that these products come from

 

let's think about this

 

let's say we enforce the minimum wage GBP 100.00 per day, 25k per annum and remove trade restrictions

 

Imports will rocket and exports will collapse

 

Our own agricultural products will be too expensive and our animal husbandry standards collapse as we can not compete with foreign imports

 

Is that what you really want?

 

The way the pound is going Brexiters should go to language school and apply for jobs in Poland!

Unsuprisingly, you are twisting comments to support your own agenda....☹️.

 

I can't be bothered to play your games.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

Nowhere have I ever (nor will I do) list my nationality as 'European'.

And nowhere have I ever mentioned EU nationality, the EU is a legal entity not a nation.

By default all British citizens are also EU citizens, citizen of the EU for the pedantic, and you just have to live with for another 15 weeks or so.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why on earth should brit. taxpayers have to pay for an increased "infrastructure" to support eu immigrants??

For the same reason Spain provides an infrastructure to cater for the multitude of UK immigrants.

[malagateddy]

 
 
Doesn't matter what it has on it - I am British. I say that not in a nationalistic, jingoistic way - just fact. I don't usually put down English, although I imagine many of my Scottish and Welsh friends will be more specific than British.
 
 
Nowhere have I ever (nor will I do) list my nationality as 'European'.

I always write British..being a Glasgow Royalist and Unionist[emoji6][emoji6][emoji6]

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[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Unsuprisingly, you are twisting comments to support your own agenda....☹️.

 

I can't be bothered to play your games.

I'm not playing any games.

 

Brexiters don't want foreigners being paid low wages right!

 

But Brexiters also do not want Tariff protection

 

Result, collapse of many parts of the economy due to inrush of cheap foreign goods

 

You can't have it all ways

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

For exactly the same reason if you have population growth through population growth through other means - you have more taxpayers, so get more income from them.

Exactly, every social and medical need in the UK is underfunded because the government has failed to address the increased demand in one form or another.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

I always write British..being a Glasgow Royalist and Unionist

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So do I

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Perhaps I'm missing something,

Yes

[malagateddy]

For the same reason Spain provides an infrastructure to cater for the multitude of UK immigrants.

Having friends who have lived inSpain for over 20 years..and knowing many other expats thro my friends..I can say that you're talking rubbish.
They all " have a few quid "..spend freely..restaurants..bars..are members of various golf clubs..do their shopping locally or the likes of Mercados..and they all have season tickets for CF Malaga.

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[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm not playing any games.

 

Brexiters don't want foreigners being paid low wages right!

 

But Brexiters also do not want Tariff protection

 

Result, collapse of many parts of the economy due to inrush of cheap foreign goods

 

You can't have it all ways

Been trying to pick cherries since day one, 'pick your own' of course.

[candide]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm not playing any games.

 

Brexiters don't want foreigners being paid low wages right!

 

But Brexiters also do not want Tariff protection

 

Result, collapse of many parts of the economy due to inrush of cheap foreign goods

 

You can't have it all ways

That's what I never understood. How can some people think that a brexiteed Uk as a global hub of free trade agreements would lead to less globalisation and improve the situation of people who think they are left behind?

I asked this question several times and never got any answer.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Having friends who have lived inSpain for over 20 years..and knowing many other expats thro my friends..I can say that you're talking rubbish.
They all " have a few quid "..spend freely..restaurants..bars..are members of various golf clubs..do their shopping locally or the likes of Mercados..and they all have season tickets for CF Malaga.

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If you are saying that none of the one million plus UK citizens living in Spain and the rest of Europe never make use of the reciprocal health arrangement, see the police or use any other local service, then I am happy to stand corrected.

[malagateddy]

If you are saying that none of the one million plus UK citizens living in Spain and the rest of Europe never make use of the reciprocal health arrangement, see the police or use any other local service, then I am happy to stand corrected.

Obviously they do make use of such things..but the British Taxpayer picks up the tab on health-care..I know this for a fact.
Just the same as a Spanish person receiving eg health-care in the UK.
The bill goes to Spain.

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[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 2:20 AM, rixalex said:

 

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:52 PM, 7by7 said:

Which will upset many of those who voted leave in 2016; especially those who voted leave to stop immigration from the EU.

What will upset many of those who voted leave in 2016 will be this continually repeated lie trotted out ad nauseam.

Listen to me very carefully now. "Controlled immigration". Give it a few seconds for those words to sink in. Now compare with your words: "stop immigration". Can you distinguish a difference? There IS one you know.

I appreciate though, if you want to paint people as being small-minded and bigoted, your phrase works much better. Who cares about accuracy?

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If you had actually paid attention to what people in the UK were actually saying in the run up to the referendum, you would know that many people voted Leave to stop EU immigration. Not to control it, but to stop it. The reasoning being that EU immigrants are taking jobs away from British people and keeping wages down. Reasoning I've seen repeated in various topics here.

 

A minority of Leave voters, I grant you; but a significant one nonetheless.

[welovesundaysatspace]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

many people voted Leave to stop EU immigration. Not to control it, but to stop it. The reasoning being that EU immigrants are taking jobs away from British people and keeping wages low

Because you have so many people willing to do all those low-skills jobs ????