Fallen In Love

[davethailand]

alexalex

maybe your english speaking is'nt good but your spelling certainly is very good.

[bangsaen bob]

Need to read Hello My Big Big Honey

It applys to all genders.

Good Luck & remember "It's only a game"

[davethailand]

in response to your pm chris p, was i the only one who was guilty of this? i don't think so,

you will see from my second reply that i made a sincere remark giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Ausiefella]

Don't forget Dave, this is a GAY FORUM, and I can guess at Chris P's PM to you. You are not allowed to say anything that might hurt someones feelings. PC gone mad on this forum mate. Dunno why, most poofs I know are big enough to look after themselves.

[davethailand]

Don't forget Dave, this is a GAY FORUM, and I can guess at Chris P's PM to you. You are not allowed to say anything that might hurt someones feelings. PC gone mad on this forum mate. Dunno why, most poofs I know are big enough to look after themselves.

i was thinking the same thing,

[Deadcert]

@ 6'4" I certainly am

[Deadcert]

AussieFella, you were probably picked on because you are straight.. and too right too

Still don't let it stop you popping in from time to time, we like those that help out when we are busy.

[wcr]

!

[Ausiefella]

Deadcert

Davethailand was PM'd about something. The moderating is hypersensative on the forum. I posted something which was ok in my books, but was warned about it. When I questioned why, I was told that what was acceptable elsewhere on Thaivisa was not acceptable here and that this forum was closely moderated.

I really can't see why as most gay guys I know are big enough and ugly enough to have a pop back and wouldn't want to have special treatment just because they are gay.

[Deadcert]

No argument from me. I agree 100%

As I have said before let the fools speak and they will hang themselves. I prefer to see the big picture rather than a sanitised one.

Although personal insults are not necessary, a healthy debate is.

"AussieFella, you were probably picked on because you are straight.. and too right too

Still don't let it stop you popping in from time to time, we like those that help out when we are busy"

My post was not meant as a dig.

Maybe I should explain "men that help out when we are busy" is a polite way of saying basically straight but can be persuaded.

No special treatment required here.

[alexalex]

Hello!

Our story was too much extended.

At first at all we with him stay long time together and after my posts I

start thinking what something can change. I go Thailand for second and

(now) third time to visit and stay with him and try to understand him.

At second visit we make the try to hire some people who will translate

thai to english. It was good try for me (have a friend for now), and

we visited Chiang Mai, Phuket etc together.

But like usuall - things happen very strange.

To talk more detaily, when I was at my country I support the boy & him family

by money and sure what his stay him home and returned back after 3 monthes.

From start things was been very good. His was very happy to see me and

meet at airport. We stay together at BKK for some times and moved to Udon

(where living him family). Here is become to happen too much new crazy things...

His family meet me good, looks all was happy to see me again and all was like

ok, untill....

1. Have situation when I allow him to stay with family for 1 day (we stay at

Udon, his family at Suwanakuna and we rent the car and him uncle drive (for money!)).

At next morning him sended me 1 sms at 11am, ok - me go to hotel and will be

at 1 hour. Ok, I am go out, visit the restoraunt and sit at lobby and waiting

for him. 13,14,15. His go back only at 15-00!. All my next sms was not answered

and after him returned back his first words was = not sorry, it was BUY ME

RADIO! (under it him understand karaoke system, cd+tape, all inside).

It was very crazy for me - as before he was much more smart about money.

We was sad and only after 1-2 days can fix this incindent (me at my minds for

him).

Ok, time go. The next situation happen 2 days ago.

As I talked before - I rent the car to be able to visit him home and travel

at isaan (with him family - like caves, hallboat, etc).

Ok. 2 days ago was some festival at Suwanakuha. His asked me what very wanted

to see it (as many Thai superstar will be here). Ok - I understand it at this.

This day I was tired and cannot go with him (all him place know me and him - as

we go before with him everywhere - shops, etc...)

We stayed up to 11pm at him home and I go to hotel and him taked the car (his

uncle drived it) and talked what festival finish at 5am and him not return back

up to tomorrow morning. I thinked little bit what it strange (5am), but

talked ok.

OK. Next day.

At 7am him with his mother go to hotel. Some incindent is happen.

His cryed and asked to talk me sorry - as him taked the car tonight (not ancle)

and have incindent after that - car (from rent a car agency)

is completely broken and cannot be repaired.

It was very good what him was ok and not have too much damages (but have some).

Ok, we go visit the place where car is broken and it was too bad. We called to

autoservice, some peoples go - which not speak english at all. But

him translated me what this peoples talked what car have insurance.

Ok, we called to rent a car company, and some peoples go here.

Ok, was too much many - but his talked what

1. insurance company will repair the car.

2. We need to pay for time, which this rent a car company cannot use this car.

From start it was 100 000 bahts, after I agreed for 57 000.

Some thing which help me to lower price for it - it what me not rent the car for

my name. This car was reserved for him uncle name and driver ids.

Ok. I paid this money (what was not very easy to do at this moment)

and thinked what him understand something.

Ok. next day.

We have some strange troubles about sex, looks (how him start looks on me -

bad like me think). I talked with him too much today -

but only "i am understand" answer for him (this is common - as his not speak

too much).

But last week (7days) we not have the sex with him - due to many transfers -

as returned back to hotel to 1-2am of morning and him not wanted it at morning

time. Ok - I have also talk with him about it. His answer was too much strange -

"is boyfriend must have sex with boyfriend?"

I was been shocked after it and answered what "MUST if boyfriends". As I talked

it happened at one day after this incindent.

Ok. We get him family and go to visit the cave and historic park and after it

returned to home to Hinnokuin.

(Must to talk what him grand mother have the small shop inside the home).

I buy by the way some food, fish, etc and get one whisky.

All this evening him again asked me to allow him to go this festival again

as him not seen it all (his have car incindent at 3am as me know). But complete

details is neverbody (except him) is know...

Ok, make the cooking, after eating we was have coke finished ang get it

at the his g. mother store and I pay for him. Ok - no troubles.

But later him go me asking to same pay money (small - 180 baht) for his uncle

wife which taken something from shop before (but me not related it!).

Next I asked - why I must pay, answer was been = "she taked something, buy

something for she". I not understand this situation and asked

"how much me need to pay next time if me go toilet at him home next time"?

Of course some sad situtaion and him returned hotel with me (why? i not wanted it).

I cannot understand all this situation and think what MUST stop with him,

as all this and much more - as

1. not too much sex for now (some reasons not do it all the time)

2. lie (we have incindent with police - which stop our car as we not have the

safe belts, him talked me what charged 300 bahts, but I asked to show the

check. Really it was 200 bahts)

3. This - "money everywhere" = "darling - can you take for me coconut from your

tree?", yes - but need to call somebody to take it from tree.

Pay this people 20 bahts.

4. this situation what him and his family never tryed to do something (may be

small!) from his side (but 2 farangs at family from UK, living at Uk with wifes

and support him family).

5. For all this time which we stay with him -he never asked me about my family,

only talked about him (how bad for him family allways, etc, etc)

6. Him asked me to "marry" on me - using thai tradition. When I asked him why? -

answer was - "i want to have some guarantee...".

7. much much more...

I think what me completely fool what I am allowed Suravutt stay with me and

must finish completely with him. The day after the car incendent is much

more opened my eyes (today).

The funny situation is same now. Him sleep near me (go with me - but I talked him

what NOT WELCOME!)

Tomorrow morning I moving to Udon and think what must finish with him

completely.

Any comments which I can read at morning about this my situation is welcome.

PS : May be my mistake what I very seriosly thinked about different cultures,

what we sometimes not understand friend - friend for now,

but this last situation opened my eyes completely. Now I understanding

completely what him just using me. Ok - Buddha know what him do, tomorrow will

finish.

Edited February 12, 2005 by alexalex

[PeaceBlondie]

Alexalex, I teach English in Thailand, and it really helps me to try to read what you write. I can't read it all; I get tired. It helps me know that it is hard to write English. But I believe you when you say that when you speak to the boyfriend, he understands much of what you say.

Since I can't read everything you write, I'll just say this: it sounds like he's manipulating you, playing you like a piano, getting lots of money out of you. As IJWT and the old forum at dreadned.com told me, until you live permanently in Thailand, don't expect to have a 'long term relationship' with a boy who is probably just a prostitute. Don't support him when you're not in Thailand. Don't let him suck all your money out of you. Remember - the average 20 year old who is not a prostitute only earns about 3,000 baht a month, and he lives on that. I have a friend back home who supposedly pays his boyfriend 4,000 or 10,000 baht a DAY when they're together in Chiang Mai - that's insane, it's crazy, my friend should go to a hospital for the drunken insane.

When you're in Thailand, set a limit of 2000 baht per day and tell the boy that's all you'll spend on everything in one day. He gets whatever's left over at midnight. He'll understand that.

I do not think you can have a real romantic love affair when you just come for holiday or vacation. You just 'rent' the person for the time you're here, and it's not romance. As a guy on dreadedned once said, it's just a trip to DisneyWorld, and the boys are cartoon characters who walk around and do what you expect them to do, but it's very expensive.

[Ijustwannateach]

Alexalex, I'll assume too for a moment you're not a troll (though to his credit I think I might actually be thinking along the same lines as Davethailand, here).

You are dating what is called a "moneyboy," or freelancer. To save face for you and for himself, he pretends that what you are doing is not prostitution. In the spectrum of prostitution, it is probably a shade "whiter" than picking a number in a gogo bar or taking home the guy standing meaningfully on the corner- in the sense that there is some probability that you are not absolutely hideous to the guy and that he might like something about you *in addition to* your money. But the money is essential.

Enjoy it if you can do so without the fantasy of a real relationship. If not, then dating moneyboys is not for you- break up with this one and try to find a real relationship in a country where one can exist- in other words, your own country. The long distance thing just doesn't work 999 times out of 1000.

"Steven"

[alexalex]

Thanks for answers!

You can be sure 100% what me not troll and really I cannot understand why peoples can think this about me/my posts.

Sorry, I write my previous post at night, returned to hotel after all it and being little-bit sad, so here too many grammatic errors.

About our situation - after this post, I considered to write paper like "what at him good at me and what at him bad for me". Results was been not good for him, too much -, not too much +.

I shown him this paper and talked - we must finish, as all this cannot continue anymore.

His reaction was strange (like usuall) - him start to collect him bags, but doing it very slowly, showing me what it not trouble for him. But after some time, when his bags was collected - started to cry, talking me what him understanding all this and too much thinking same about it ("when i go shower - I think why I make it bad for you today. Like some another people living inside me sometime. I see and understand you what you love me, but me sometimes cannot stop myself")

Ok, after long time and many talks his make me to give him one more try (last time - like usuall). Him will try to change completely and control better himself.

Today we visited some historic park and inside it was Buddha temple. Him go inside and I asked him to promise Buddha what him will be do like we talked and will control himself and try to do best for me and him. Him repeated this things (that i am talked to him) for Buddha.

So - now him promised also something to Buddha, not only to me. But I cannot understand him reaction (serious but funny(?!)) after me talked him about it.

My question : Is it serious thing for Thai people to promise something to Buddha or not? Just I see him and his family, what his visit temples very often and religeous peoples.

Thanks!

Edited February 13, 2005 by alexalex

[ChrisP]

and really I cannot understand why peoples can think this about me/my posts.

I don't think you are a "troll"... these posts take far too much energy to write... and all your other posts on ThaiVisa are writen in a similar way..

I hope you get feedback... although my own opinion is that you should end the relationship as soon as possible.

Some people like to have "drama" in their life... and will never change - for anthing or anyone.

ChrisP

[slapdashkitty]

Is this DEJA VU?

Have we not heard this story like 1,000,000 times?

I can hardly believe that this is a troll, agree with Chris who has that much time on there hands?

Man do you not have any common sense? I think the B2000 a day plan sounds fair.

As for the phone thing...I was out in Silom the other night at BASKIN ROBBINS. A cute Thai boy and his "older" farang BF were having a conversation about the boy's need of a new phone. The farang relented and gave him B10,000. I walked over to CENTRAL and not a few hours later there I see the same boy with another farang...as I passed I heard "me need new phone."

[alexalex]

ChrisP : Thank you for your comment!

slapdashkitty : Looks you not read all this topic. We stay with this boy together near 8 monthes together, (it approx 1,5 years together at Thailand and stay separate). When I was at home I sure what him stay home and not have anything with other farangs). Not want to describe detaily where from me know - but I am know it very good.

So, my story is story of UNDERSTANDING and RELATIONS of 2 peoples - me and my thai boyfriend. We sometimes too much not understand friend-friend, but when situation is fixed - have very good time together (all bkk/pattaya/phuket/etc gay areas know us (sometimes we visit this places, but him very not liked it and we do it not often) as "strange exception from common thai-farang rules"!)

Oh, to talk more detaily also what me not troll, like somebody write here. Go bkk to silom,patpong (soi4) and ask at banana bar (first from entry) about alex (cz/ukraine) and vutt. More than sure what you get some answer.

Too talk more - our situation like "BIG PLUS" or BIG MINUS. Middle can be, but not too often.

And to talk more detaily - I am not old person (30y). I have some thai friends (not sex - just friends) who worked at the bars, and know enough about his games. I read many sms on his mobiles, seen how him send it to customer, seen his notes with "birthday day" of him farangs and more. So, I must to talk what I know it related with other peoples, but not me... (like usually, I think)

Best Regards,

Alex

Edited February 14, 2005 by alexalex

[Ijustwannateach]

Yay, SDK is back! You go, girl!

Yes, alexalex, you're the "real" boyfriend because you're "young," you're "special," and he goes with you for "true love," not "money." Sure. What're the odds you're the ONLY special one not being conned by the self-admitted con man with his "games"?

I was gossiping with a friend a few months back who hangs out with a lot of the bar boys around Silom and Suriwong... he was laughing over stories about being in bed with them while they called one of their foreign clients (on one of their innumberable expensive mobiles) and giving them advice on what to say to get more money out of them...

Once again, I'll spell it out: your "bf" is a prostitute (since now you've even admitted he's in the bar). Either you accept this and either give him all your money (now or eventually) or put your foot down and set acceptable limits for both of you, or you dump him (now or eventually) and find a real boyfriend (which takes much longer than picking someone up in a bar). This isn't one of the Great Mysteries of Life- this is a simple common sense matter. You're not going to change him, and nothing we tell you will change him, and that's the situation you're in. It happens to almost everyone in their first encounters with Bangkok nightlife, because that's what it's designed to do. The answer to the question "How can I keep this lovely guy but just change everything about him?" is that, "you can't." I'd say the real question is whether you can unstick yourself or not.

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

It happens to almost everyone in their first encounters with Bangkok nightlife, because that's what it's designed to do.

Yep, and they're D A M N good at it too...!!! Years of practice, makes perfect. (They should give lessons!)

Got me the first time, as well.

But it was fun for a while!!

ChrisP

PS Alexalex read the web site floatinglotus.com "Dear Uncle E"

Edited February 15, 2005 by ChrisP

[Steve2UK]

Alex,

From what you have said before, it's obvious that you have major doubts about this guy. I think the most valuable thing you did for yourself was to make that list of +'s and -'s........... and you found many more -'s than +'s. I don't believe that there are many people that we meet who are either 100% angels or devils - nearly everybody is a mixture (part of what makes them interesting, I think). I guess that you are sensible enough that, if this Thai guy was 100% devil, you a] would not have started with him and b] would not find it so difficult to break with him now. Almost certainly, he does have some natural good feelings and affection for you - after all, he's human isn't he?

So, I don't think it's helpful for people to tell you that he's a total liar and money-getting machine - because you will probably think "Oh, but he also did this good thing or that good thing - so those people must be wrong". The point is that the truth is a mixture of the two things (and probably a lot more than two).

BUT - I have to agree with others that it's very difficult for guys like your boyfriend to break the habit that they have had for so long; it's very easy for them to get accustomed to having all the good things (material goods) that a relationship with a farang will bring (unfortunately, almost certainly with more than just one farang). Also - don't forget that he gets a lot of encouragement/competition from his Thai bar friends (and they may not be as nice as he is). All of that makes it really difficult for him to change himself - even if he might want to.

I think you said you are Ukrainian/Czech? So, you'll know what a "novo Russki" is? Try thinking about your Thai guy the way you would about a good-looking young guy/girl who hangs around with "novo Russki" guys. You understand?

I also think that your language difficulties must make it much more difficult than usual - I don't want to seem rude, but surely both of you are struggling with a second language? If so, then (in addition to the many cultural differences) it must be really difficult to get to know each other properly. In that situation, it's easy to let "wishful thinking" take over; in other words, if you're not sure about something, you probably believe what you would like to be true rather than what you know is true.

About him making the promise to Buddha as well as to you? If he was Catholic or Orthodox and made the promise in a church instead of at the wat, would you believe it 100% guarantees anything? Buddhism is a very practical religion - and it's much more open to individual interpretation than most Western religions. It's not like swearing on a Bible - even if he is a "good" Buddhist. Sorry to say it, but I also imagine that you don't really know what he said or thought when he went to the wat...........

And, let's imagine that he did sincerely promise to Buddha to do his best for you and him. How do you know that his best will be good enough? As always, only you can decide what is right for you.

I don't think it's possible for the money not to be important - but I also don't think it must be the most important thing. I have to agree with others who suggest a limit of what you will spend per day. It's a very practical idea and he will find it easy to understand. If he doesn't want to accept the idea (because he can get a better "deal" with someone else), then you have the final proof you need - the proof that I think you're looking for and don't want to admit yet.

Finally, I'd like to suggest something different if this "relationship" breaks up. There are many other ways to meet Thai guys - not just through commercial moneyboy bars - genuine guys that would probably avoid most of the complications that you've got now. Show yourself in the Bangkok chatroom of gay.com and your main problem will be dealing with all the messages you get from Thai's of good family, education etc..........

Whatever you do, good luck with it.

[alexalex]

Thank you for answers!

Ijustwannateach : I know most of this stories as read Uncle E before, talked with friends about his work about farangs and more.

Also him job at the bar was been not long time and him was "not happy inside (if it possibly to talk it by this way)". It mean what him not was too friendly at start (like other barboys), worry too much what him do as bar boy, etc. This all things let me know what him was new at that time when we meet. But of course our relation started not from it.

ChrisP: Yes, I readed this website long time before, I buy and readed also some books like "My dear darling", etc. So - I can easy see some things.

About money limit suggested, - we not have this trouble. I sometimes (when I want) - I give him some money (it can happen once per 3-5 days - like up to 500 bahts), sometime can give money to him mother, etc. But not too much at all. So - him not get money at clear view from me. Purchases of something big - also not often can be.

Before I purchased for him second mobile phone (first somebody stole from him at hair cut salone, and I sure at this - as some days ago him get information who using this phone (this thai people not changed sim card) - and planned to go police).

So - money is exists at our relations, but not too much as many peoples at this forum think about it. This things about karaoke and car was extraordinary, so - I write here about it.

Steve2UK : Thanks you for big and good answer!

I sure what understand what no evils only and angels only is exists at the world. But what related that - what you cannot change your Thai boyfriend - it not true. My is changing and changed too much for now from than what him was at start of our relations. Just need to really love him, show it to him and be smart with other thai peoples what him see it and make him happy be with you when visit another thai peoples.

To Me - him/his family/his friends many times talked next thing : Alex - you not same like another farangs - you can do for us things - which never will do any other farang (but him have 2 uk peoples at his family!)

This is NOT related the money, this related what I allways talk sawadee, coppen cap to thai peoples, make some cooking for his family, learn thai little-bit, sometimes talk to him/his family - "up to you", another small things, etc.

I am understanding it - what him changing for now (and love me by him own way for now), and some things is very hard to do for him, but his trying... what is most important.

You talking about "Novo Russkiy" :-), I am sorry - but me not. I just computer programmer. :-)

For point of view of thai people to like go with "Novo Russkiy", I understand it. It why him good now know about Ukraine - and know what at my country peoples earn same like thai peoples for now, and for me was not easy task to move to CZ and "make me myself".

I also think that your language difficulties must make it much more difficult than usual - I don't want to seem rude, but surely both of you are struggling with a second language? If so, then (in addition to the many cultural differences) it must be really difficult to get to know each other properly. In that situation, it's easy to let "wishful thinking" take over; in other words, if you're not sure about something, you probably believe what you would like to be true rather than what you know is true.

Yes, it true. But we understand friend - friend, him learn the russian and me learn the thai. So things to talk become more easy.

About him promise to Buddha. I was not sure at this and him repeated my words to Buddha at english. Of course I don't know what him think about it, but at his home his mama/friends now know about it to make more hard for him to broke his promise.

About him friends from bars. His not have too much, him know only lady-boy (yesterday his visit him home), who NOT worked at bars at all.

Also know some 2-3 boys who worked at the bars, but I have talked with him about it - what him must change - but this boys will try to return back his mind. His understand it, and looks this boys was not him real friends, just persons to drink whisky sometimes. So - him not more contact him.

Another trouble is his family. Here 2 farangs, and I more than sure what family know what to do in this cases. And him call home many times per day.

Ok, I understand how many we must to do, to see, to understand and many "sad", "incindients" is will be. But if I see what him changing (what happen now!) - I will be with him, if not change - will be stop relations.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm not saying the guy's all bad- few people are- and some of these fellows really enjoy their work. But he's a working lad and it doesn't do any good for those who're "agonizing" over their sincerity to doll it up, especially when it's clear that he works in a bar and has a line of farang on his string. The chance is MUCH higher that the gogo boy will ruin the obsessed client's life than the client will somehow "save" or "improve" the gogo boy. Suggestion: look through the guy's wallet for all the pics he no doubt carries there of all his other "special" men, and then imagine him doing all the things he does with you with them (and many, many other guys who take him from the bar randomly). If you can't do this, then you haven't really accepted what you've told us already is the truth.

And I recommend you follow Steve's advice about finding REAL Thai guys to date. It's not that hard! But you have to stay out of the bars!

"Steven"

[alexalex]

Ijustwannateach : Thanks for comment, but it not our situation. I can easily see his wallet, him show it to me and not seen photos of other peoples. Same - also his mama have my&him only photo at mobile.

At him mobile no photos of other peoples. Also some time ago we go internet caffee (hotel not have the phone at Nong Bua Lamphu) - so him also checked his email. I seen his emails (him not hide it from me) and one was NOTREADED from his old customer (that what I talked at first post). I asked to show me this email - and him is shown. Here was been talk what this people will visit Thai at 20-jun (before me visit thailand for 2 days) and want to stay with him. As I talked about - was this only one NOT READED email, and I know person where from was this email.

So - this and many another things show me what I am only one who have my Thai boyfriend, and NO other farangs he not have for time of our relations.

Also when I buy him mobile phone, his get notes book and added phone numbers to him new mobile. I seen this book. Here was been only 3 foreign phone numbers (my, his 2 sisters who live uk).

So - I sure what him have me ONLY now.

Edited February 15, 2005 by alexalex

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, then, I'm sure you'll have no problems.

[Steve2UK]

Steve2UK : Thanks you for big and good answer!

I sure what understand what no evils only and angels only is exists at the world. But what related that - what you cannot change your Thai boyfriend - it not true. My is changing and changed too much for now from than what him was at start of our relations. Just need to really love him, show it to him and be smart with other thai peoples what him see it and make him happy be with you when visit another thai peoples.

To Me - him/his family/his friends many times talked next thing : Alex - you not same like another farangs - you can do for us things - which never will do any other farang (but him have 2 uk peoples at his family!)

This is NOT related the money, this related what I allways talk sawadee, coppen cap to thai peoples, make some cooking for his family, learn thai little-bit, sometimes talk to him/his family - "up to you", another small things, etc.

I am understanding it - what him changing for now (and love me by him own way for now), and some things is very hard to do for him, but his trying... what is most important.

You talking about "Novo Russkiy" :-), I am sorry - but me not. I just computer programmer. :-)

For point of view of thai people to like go with "Novo Russkiy", I understand it. It why him good now know about Ukraine - and know what at my country peoples earn same like thai peoples for now, and for me was not easy task to move to CZ and "make me myself".

I also think that your language difficulties must make it much more difficult than usual - I don't want to seem rude, but surely both of you are struggling with a second language? If so, then (in addition to the many cultural differences) it must be really difficult to get to know each other properly. In that situation, it's easy to let "wishful thinking" take over; in other words, if you're not sure about something, you probably believe what you would like to be true rather than what you know is true.

Yes, it true. But we understand friend - friend, him learn the russian and me learn the thai. So things to talk become more easy.

About him promise to Buddha. I was not sure at this and him repeated my words to Buddha at english. Of course I don't know what him think about it, but at his home his mama/friends now know about it to make more hard for him to broke his promise.

About him friends from bars. His not have too much, him know only lady-boy (yesterday his visit him home), who NOT worked at bars at all.

Also know some 2-3 boys who worked at the bars, but I have talked with him about it - what him must change - but this boys will try to return back his mind. His understand it, and looks this boys was not him real friends, just persons to drink whisky sometimes. So - him not more contact him.

Another trouble is his family. Here 2 farangs, and I more than sure what family know what to do in this cases. And him call home many times per day.

Ok, I understand how many we must to do, to see, to understand and many "sad", "incindients" is will be. But if I see what him changing (what happen now!) - I will be with him, if not change - will be stop relations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you didn't understand what I meant about "novo Russkiy" - I didn't mean that you are and certainly not that your Thai friend is novo Russkiy. I was trying to show you a comparison with something you may have seen at home in Ukraine or CZ.

If he is trying to change, that's great. If he succeeds, that's even better. As others have said here (and most of them have much more knowledge and experience than I do), it's a very difficult change for him to make. I'm still an optimist about most things - BUT I also learned very early on to try and stay very realistic as well. As Ijustwannateach said, there are many more farang who got hurt than there are barboys who got "saved" (changed). So, I think you have to ask yourself what your chances are this time with this guy. 10%? 40%? 50/50? Better? You have to decide and then you will know what to do.

If you do decide to continue, this is the right time to be very clear about what you do and also to talk a LOT with him. He should be worried that you're worried; if he is worried, then he will show it and try his best.

I don't understand about "Another trouble is his family. Here 2 farangs, and I more than sure what family know what to do in this cases". Do you mean that his family have 2 other farangs connected to them? Do they give money or how is it?

[slapdashkitty]

Well wish you luck!

But sorry, seems like he is leading you down the garden path...

If you had no doubts why would you post here?

Shut off the $$$ and see if he sticks around...

[alexalex]

Steve2UK : Thanks again!

I don't understand about "Another trouble is his family. Here 2 farangs, and I more than sure what family know what to do in this cases". Do you mean that his family have 2 other farangs connected to them? Do they give money or how is it?

I just mean what from his family - 2 daughters (sisters of my boyfriend) is married on peoples from UK. This ladies with husbands sometimes visit him home, and I seen one him sister here - but she living at UK. Yes, I think what UK families give money to his family - don't know details at all.

About term "NovoRussian" related to Thailand - I sure what understand it clearly. It like be at company of very rich people (for Thailand) and use all what using this people (hotel. food, etc).

Yes, I know what now the time to speak with him about all this and about future. I talked with him today about "darling, if me will be not have money - is you will be with me" - answer was been "yes".

But after we visit the Tong bar at Udon, his minds changed all the times and him asked me "Alex, I just think what we will be do if we finish". Of course this question was not standard (before I not listen same things from him). So I asked him - you want to finish our relations with me - answer was been "no - but I just thinked what can be at this situation".

So - more things for me to think about.

But we was at this Tong bar - looks it was hunting place for thai ladies to farangs - so him feelings was changing on the way.

After some time we visit the karaoke, VIP room were tryed to song the songs. I asked him - in the future - if all will be good, we can live together, have some house. But me want what we do it together, not me only. Is it ok? His answer was yes. But I see what him start think many about it today.

Ok, will be see how things will happen next. I know what give him very not easy task, which can change our relations at all or broke it.

But this MUST to do if we will be live and love as boyfriends.

PS : Him know about this topic, I shown him it before my last 2 posts. But this last post not will show him.

slapdashkitty: I posting here - as I am and him is just peoples, who have sometimes troubles as two peoples. Our troubles little-bit different than troubles of many another peoples - as peoples cannot be same.

When I have extraordinary things happen, I just tryed to may be find some support (moral) and tips from european/thai peoples here, as I stay with him only, and only sometimes can speak with another peoples.

Best Regards,

Alex

[Steve2UK]

Alex,

I'm starting to think about the other side of this relationship - how it is for your Thai partner (if you think that's a correct way to describe him?). There is another topic on here - "The Long, Strange Trip" - and I hope you have been reading it. Particularly from ProThaiExpat (post #17) and from The Eye of Sauron (post #29).

Are you going to be able to stay in Thailand permanently? Will you have an income? Will that income be enough to pay for both of you to live together? Are you expecting him to work and earn some money? (it won't be very much).

Other people here have already mentioned the difference between a Thai being "yours" only while you are in Thailand and a Thai being "yours" 100% of the time. In both cases, you have to understand that the Thai also has to think about his future - so, what guarantees can you give him? All good relationships/partnerships are some kind of two-way street; maybe you want it very much your own one way and don't think enough about his situation?

I'm not saying that this is definitely what is happening in this case - I'm just asking something for you to think about. In any relationship, you BOTH have responsibilities. In a farang/Thai relationship, it's nearly certain that you will have nearly all the financial responsibilities. Are you ready for that? If you're not ready for it...... why should he have any confidence? Even true love doesn't put a roof over your heads, food in your mouths and clothes on your backs - not in Ukraine, not in CZ and not even in Thailand.

You don't know much about his family and I know nothing about them. It's possible that they are very good, caring people - and it's also possible that they have become very accustomed to living very well with the help from 2 farangs (3 if you are included). So, I'm not sure that I would expect very much help to you from them; after all, he's their son and you're not even their son-in-law.

It's bad for you that you can't talk about this with others (presumably no-one at your home). In any case, my instinct is that you also need to pull back a little and have more time to think by yourself. I see too many examples in what you write where there is a picture of the two of you in a small room somewhere - him on the phone to his friends/family and you typing on the computer. That's not healthy. Apart from that, I wonder what it does for the Thai's confidence in you and respect for you when he knows about you telling the world about your situation and asking for help? You expect a lot from him; don't forget that you also have to deserve it. At least in his eyes - YOU are the farang, YOU are older than he is, YOU should know the answers. "Up to you".............

From what I've read here, I think you've had all the good advice you need to help you to decide what to do now. You need to get your head clear and be clear with him - and yourself. If he is anything like what you think/hope he is, he will respect you for it. If he is what others think he is (and isn't going to change), then it's time to finish - better for both of you.

Once again, good luck - either way.

Edited February 15, 2005 by Steve2UK

[ChrisP]

As for the phone thing...I was out in Silom the other night at BASKIN ROBBINS. A cute Thai boy and his "older" farang BF were having a conversation about the boy's need of a new phone. The farang relented and gave him B10,000. I walked over to CENTRAL and not a few hours later there I see the same boy with another farang...as I passed I heard "me need new phone."

Hey SDK... Did he get the "second phone"...??!

ChrisP

[slapdashkitty]

Well Mr. P. I was just passing them on the street...

I did think to follow them and eavesdrop, but really who cares?

I gave the boy a big knowing smile and he returned it.

He was pretty good at his game so I will bet he scored 2 in 1 night!

I have dubbed him Mr. telephone-ring-a-ding-ding!

Edited February 16, 2005 by slapdashkitty