Staying in Thailand 2-3 months - UK resident, working remotely for UK company

[SamuiAddict]

Good morning/evening guys

I'm coming to Thailand in the next few months to spend an extended period of time in the country before moving on somewhere else.

I am currently employed by a UK company that only serves UK customers.  It's an e-commerce business and I'm a website manager.  I will be switching from being an employee to a self employed contractor for the time that I am abroad.

I am struggling to find any definitive advice on what my visa/work permit requirements are going to be?  Can anyone help with this.  Thanks

[SteveK]

Technically you won't be legally allowed to work during your stay in Thailand unless you obtain a work permit, which you won't be able to get. However, in practice, working discretely behind closed doors on your laptop, for only a few months, it's highly unlikely you'd encounter any issues. If you started working at internet cafes or shared working spaces, eventually you could expect to be found out and subject to the Thai laws, especially if you were offering services to clients within Thailand.

Edited December 27, 2018 by pr9spk

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, SamuiAddict said:

I am struggling to find any definitive advice on what my visa/work permit requirements are going to be?  Can anyone help with this.  Thanks

Legally you are not allowed to work without the appropriate visa/work permit. Work permits are issued to employees of Thai businesses so you won’t qualify for one.

 

As long as you are working for your foreign based online business the authorities are unlikely to be bothered. They tolerate this kind of work whilst people are holidaying  in Thailand.

 

The best advice is to keep whatever work you’re doing to yourself.

[BritTim]

You will not have a problem doing what you propose, at least for a few months. Until recently, it seemed that digital nomads (which is the usual term) were technically illegal in Thailand, but tolerated in practice. Recent revisions to immigration guidelines, while still not 100% clear, seem partly designed to reassure people such as yourself that online work for overseas companies while in Thailand is not considered illegal work under Thai law. Nobody is ever prosecuted for doing this. 

[SamuiAddict]

Thanks for clarifying guys.  So do I just get a tourist visa and do the 30 day visa runs?

[ubonjoe]

For the visa side of you question you should get a multiple entry tourist visa that will allow unlimited 60 day entries for 6 months from the date of issue. You can get almost 9 months of total stay form it by getting a new 60 day entry just before it expires and then a 30 day extension.

Requirements are here on the embassy website, http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

[Sophon]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For the visa side of you question you should get a multiple entry tourist visa that will allow unlimited 60 day entries for 6 months from the date of issue. You can get almost 9 months of total stay form it by getting a new 60 day entry just before it expires and then a 30 day extension.

Requirements are here on the embassy website, http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84451-Tourist-Visa.html

He is only staying 2-3 months, so why would he want to get a METV? A single entry tourist visa with an extension will cover his intended stay and be cheaper.

 

Of course, if he thinks there is a reasonable chance that he would want to extend his stay in Thailand, a multiple entry TV will give him more flexibility.

 

Sophon

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Sophon said:

He is only staying 2-3 months, so why would he want to get a METV? A single entry tourist visa with an extension will cover his intended stay and be cheaper.

 

He also wrote this.

33 minutes ago, SamuiAddict said:

 I'm coming to Thailand in the next few months to spend an extended period of time in the country before moving on somewhere else.

 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Recent revisions to immigration guidelines, while still not 100% clear, seem partly designed to reassure people such as yourself that online work for overseas companies while in Thailand is not considered illegal work under Thai law. Nobody is ever prosecuted for doing this. 

I haven’t seen anything to suggest such reassurance.

 

The changes have only been made to make it easier for work permits to be issued to workers in Thailand.

 

Until the law is changed anyone working in Thailand needs permission and are working illegally without it.

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, SamuiAddict said:

I am struggling to find any definitive advice on what my visa/work permit requirements are going to be?  Can anyone help with this.  Thanks

People who are "working online" (business, customers, money abroad, no office in Thailand) are not considered to be working in Thailand, so no work permit required.

Some people might tell you: That's wrong, to work you need a work permit.

But when looking at the actions of the Thai authorities in the past you will soon see that you can't find even one person who was prosecuted for working online, not even when these people got "catched" in an immigration police raid. They were always let go and the Thai authorities said what they did was not illegal. So currently there is nothing to worry about, you can do it on a tourist visa.

Edited December 27, 2018 by jackdd

[geisha]

Just don’t tell anyone, ( bar stool friends, girls etc) that you are working. Keep it to yourself behind your own doors.,

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, geisha said:

Just don’t tell anyone, ( bar stool friends, girls etc) that you are working. Keep it to yourself behind your own doors.,

Agreed! The OP "samui addict" at a guess has been to Thailand before.. What's with the honesty approach. Just keep your online gig to yourself and all good. As for best visa. Sometimes things change. Maybe you want stay Los longer. You sound not short of a quid, so get an METV. Keep in mind you can only obtain one in your own country so if you have an metv , all bases covered

[balo]

20 hours ago, SamuiAddict said:

I am currently employed by a UK company that only serves UK customers.  It's an e-commerce business and I'm a website manager. 

So if your salary are in the UK and you pay your taxes there , and you're only here for 2-3 months , you got nothing to worry about.  

 

As long as you do not involve any Thais. 

 

I have been here  8 years and they did not arrest me yet. I have a valid visa for retirement. But my income is in Europe ,my home address and I pay my taxes there. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by balo

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, SamuiAddict said:

I am struggling to find any definitive advice on what my visa/work permit requirements are going to be?  Can anyone help with this.

A much debated question, so-called "digital nomad", where some more official replies indicated a digital nomad don't need a work permit, and do his offshore work legally; whilst others say the opposite. Same kind of contradicting replies come from us Thaivisa "experts".

 

The authorities won't have much interest in you, if your visa and anything else connected to your entry and stay are in perfect order; what you do for a foreign company, on foreign web-servers, and foreign clients only, and all monetary transfers done abroad won't be of initial interest. So the best advise use to be: keep it under the radar and don't mention it (to anybody) – presumably lots are already doing it with success...????

 

PS: And if you're heading to Samui, as you username might indicate, you'll find advertised so-called "co-worker space", where some of the "presumably" others have their "office"...

[JackThompson]

35 minutes ago, khunPer said:

PS: And if you're heading to Samui, as you username might indicate, you'll find advertised so-called "co-worker space", where some of the "presumably" others have their "office"...

Yes, those "co worker" spaces are all over.  They operate as a good "canary in the coal mine" for those who are not as brazen - because if the authorities ever had an issue with this, those are the places they would go first for roundups. 

[baansgr]

You work for a UK company, no doubt will complete your UK tax return, your salary will be paid in a UK bank....I now do exact

21 hours ago, elviajero said:

I haven’t seen anything to suggest such reassurance.

 

The changes have only been made to make it easier for work permits to be issued to workers in Thailand.

 

Until the law is changed anyone working in Thailand needs permission and are working illegally without it.

So if a WP cant be issued as working for a UK company, it cant be deemed as working. All ties are to the UK...no salary, clients nada to do with Thailand so it cant be illegal.

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, baansgr said:

You work for a UK company, no doubt will complete your UK tax return, your salary will be paid in a UK bank....I now do exact

So if a WP cant be issued as working for a UK company, it cant be deemed as working. All ties are to the UK...no salary, clients nada to do with Thailand so it cant be illegal.

Geez...the chap shouldn't even have posted such a ridiculous question. He is basically "passing through" thailand , staying for few months. He could maybe achieve it via couple of VE with extensions. Puts across persona as businessman and asks rhetorical question on Thaivisa. Already knows answer. There is zero problem with some online consulting work while drinking piss on koh samui.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

You work for a UK company, no doubt will complete your UK tax return, your salary will be paid in a UK bank....I now do exact

So if a WP cant be issued as working for a UK company, it cant be deemed as working. All ties are to the UK...no salary, clients nada to do with Thailand so it cant be illegal.

You are conflating being a worker in Thailand with working in Thailand and taxation laws.

 

Immigration and the department of labour are interested in whether or not your working legally. The revenue department don’t give a stuff about your visa status or whether you’re legally working; they are interested in the source of income/employer, tax residency status, and any potential tax liability.

 

Three simple examples. Someone can be; 

1. a legal worker in Thailand (Thai employer)

2. an illegal worker in thailand (Thai employer)

3. working illegally in Thailand (Self employed or a worker for a foreign business/employer)

 

If they are a legal/illegal worker (1. or 2.) in Thailand their employer should withhold tax from day one.

 

If they are illegally working in Thailand (3.), and are tax resident (after 180 days), they should be filing a tax return to declare any tax liability on any foreign sources of earned or unearned income.

 

In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act. If your income is being remitted to Thailand you might have a tax liability, but not unless you are tax resident and the income is being remitted to Thailand.

Edited December 28, 2018 by elviajero

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

If they are illegally working in Thailand (3.), and are tax resident (after 180 days), they should be filing a tax return to declare any tax liability on any foreign sources of earned or unearned income.

To my knowledge only if you bring the income into Thailand. Income earned and left abroad is not taxable in Thailand, and income brought in the following year or later is considered as non-taxable savings.

 

Some countries' tax-rules legally make part of your income tax-free, if you are tax-resident in Thailand, and even if you should pay income tax, it might be cheaper than in many a European country.

[balo]

7 hours ago, khunPer said:

To my knowledge only if you bring the income into Thailand. Income earned and left abroad is not taxable in Thailand, and income brought in the following year or later is considered as non-taxable savings.

This! 

 

[jackdd]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act.

Just according to your personal interpretation of the law, not according to the interpretation by the Thai authorities

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

 

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act.

Just according to your personal interpretation of the law, not according to the interpretation by the Thai authorities

You are trolling now!

 

No one in authority has ever stated (“interpreted”) this work is legal.

 

Just because the authorities are tolerating this form of work does not change the law and make it legal.

 

According to very simple wording in the immigration act — all work requires permission.

[Misty]

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act. If your income is being remitted to Thailand you might have a tax liability, but not unless you are tax resident and the income is being remitted to Thailand.

If you're a tax resident in Thailand and you are working in Thailand but paid by a foreign company offshore, the income is taxable in Thailand. It is considered Thai source income (because it was earned by you in Thailand.)  It does not matter whether this income is remitted to Thailand, it is taxable in Thailand.

 

The remittance factor comes in to play only for true foreign source income, such as dividends or interest earned and paid offshore.  But salary income is treated differently. 

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No one in authority has ever stated (“interpreted”) this work is legal.

Really?

If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.

https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

And don't forget the several cases of foreigners being "caught" by Thai authorities while working online and then just let go because they didn't do anything illegal according to the authorities.

 

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

According to very simple wording in the immigration act — all work requires permission.

But the Thai authorities interpret the law so that it only applies for work in Thailand and they consider people working online as working outside of Thailand even if they are physically in Thailand, which means no permission required

[2tall]

If, you enter thailand with a tourist visa or whatever its called, AND you log in to your company work email with your device(s), would that constitute "working illegally" in Thailand? Most likely answer is a resounding no, even for the yahoo's in charge of immigration crimes, (but lets not assume they are so switched on).

 

AND, if while checking your email you respond to them, corresponding with colleagues, is this considered working illegally in Thailand? Most likely no and impossible to detect and/or enforce.

 

So, in summation, hardly worth concerning yourself unless you openly and brazenly flaunt your efforts for all to see and get "in the face" of someone who actually might give a crap about your business.

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No one in authority has ever stated (“interpreted”) this work is legal.

Really?

Quote

If you are a ‘digital nomad’ running your own business on the internet, the immigration office says you can do this on a tourist visa.

 

https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/new-visa-rules-explained/

 

And don't forget the several cases of foreigners being "caught" by Thai authorities while working online and then just let go because they didn't do anything illegal according to the authorities.

"CAN DO THIS" it does not say it is LEGAL to do this.

 

You are conflating the legality with enforcement.

 

As it stands - according to the law written decades ago - it is illegal to do any work without permission. But the authorities are not actively going after or prosecuting foreigners on holiday ("TOURIST VISA") that are keeping up with their work/business.

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

According to very simple wording in the immigration act — all work requires permission.

But the Thai authorities interpret the law so that it only applies for work in Thailand and they consider people working online as working outside of Thailand even if they are physically in Thailand, which means no permission required

No they haven't.

 

There has been no official announcement ever made by TIB or DoL regarding the Thai authorities interpretation.

 

All that has been said is effectively that tourists can work at their business whilst on holiday. 

 

Those pesky facts!

[jackdd]

42 minutes ago, elviajero said:

"CAN DO THIS" it does not say it is LEGAL to do this. 

So you would say that according to Thai law working online while in Thailand is illegal, right? Before you wrote "In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act"

 

If you think it's illegal, then which of these options has a higher probability?

1. A Thai authority stating at a public press conference that it's ok to do something which is illegal by law

2. Your opinion regarding the illegality is wrong

[elviajero]

36 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

"CAN DO THIS" it does not say it is LEGAL to do this. 

So you would say that according to Thai law working online while in Thailand is illegal, right? Before you wrote "In your case you would be illegally working in Thailand under section 37.1 of the immigration act"

I am stating the fact that the immigration act says any work in Thailand requires permission. And as "online work" is not on the EXEMPT LIST of things not considered work; therefore, working at the occupation of 'Digital Nomad' without permission is illegal. 

 

I'm sure you are aware of the exempt list and that it would be very easy to add 'online work'. Why haven't they?

 

Quote

If you think it's illegal, then which of these options has a higher probability?

1. A Thai authority stating at a public press conference that it's ok to do something which is illegal by law

2. Your opinion regarding the illegality is wrong

1.

 

The immigration act was written 39 years ago and since then working practice has moved on. Until/if the immigration act is updated the authorities have taken a pragmatic view, and an individual in authority was happy to publicly state that working online as a tourist is ok. It would be impossible for them to stop, and very difficult to prosecute even if they wanted to. What else could they say and why would they want to anyway?

 

"You can do this on a tourist visa" - Try asking the same question, as a non-immigrant visa holder with permission to stay for retirement that is living in the country, and see what answer you get.

 

There are several immigration laws that are not enforced, not prosecuting tourists that are 'working online' this is one of them.

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by elviajero

[BritTim]

53 minutes ago, elviajero said:

"You can do this on a tourist visa" - Try asking the same question, as a non-immigrant visa holder with permission to stay for retirement that is living in the country, and see what answer you get.

I am aware of people on retirement extensions who still do some work as digital nomads. I believe this is equally tolerated as for those on tourist visas.