200thb Left & International School Holds Paycheck Hostage

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

Hey everybody,

 

 I am in desperate need of your wisdom. I only have enough money in my pocket for a few more me off. I am a 30 something year old American ESL teacher. To be quite honest I don't even like to use the word teacher. I consider myself more as a coach. For the past six years I have been creatively creating language activities that inspire Thai high schoolers to learn English. The majority of my students are in government school and they speak little to no English at all. I love being a teacher because I get to be creative, it's rewarding to see students who once hated English to actually enjoy it and I love the freedom of creating my own curriculum. I'm the type of teacher that doesn't look forward to vacations and usually stays at school until 5 or 6 because I love to teach English. That's why I'm in Thailand.  so please don't lump Me In The Stereotype of the typical Lazy and complaining farang Ajarn in Thailand. I take my job seriously and I'm hard-working.

 

Now that you have a foundation on my character, I'll tell you about my situation.

 

 A  language agency I worked for helped me get a job at an International School. This was after I completed my online certification in marketing. My job at the school was to do marketing, to help create a new English curriculum and to be an assistant to the headteacher for managing the foreign teachers at the school. When I arrived to the school to talk about this job position, they changed everything. They wanted to make me a primary grade 1 through 6 teacher for grammar, reading and writing and speaking and listening. I didn't have many options because all the other schools in my town had already hired foreign teachers. I had no option but to say yes. But I told them that I was unqualified and unable to teach reading and writing and grammar. We made an agreement that I would only teach speaking and listening with only a few grammar classes. But on my first day of teaching, I got a schedule that violated that agreement. They gave me all of the classes that I said I was not qualified to teach.

 

 getting to the getting to the point, while teaching those classes that I didn't know how to teach the best I could, I spent my leisure time job searching. I got lucky at the end of November and on December 3rd I told the school that I would be resigning. This was a horrible time for me to resign because the school had a Christmas show coming up on the 24th and the regional academic competitions were on the 15th. Many people advised me to just quit and walk away but I chose to stay with the school and to complete my month as well as all of my duties. It felt like the right thing to do.

 

 within a 3 week period of time after our Dec 11th meeting on my remaining duties, the administration wanted me to make 18 different course syllabus for all 18 classes that I taught in addition to 18 different midterm exams which would take a total 36 hours to make. And I had to do all of this work within my full-time schedule, training students for the academic competition, teaching special classes and Christmas show duties.

 

 I completed everything. Some of my breaker is good and some of it sucked. Of course some of my work  isn't good even though I worked hard on it because  I didn't know how to do it and I wasn't given examples are guidelines or anything about how to do it.  I'm referring to the exams.   and now the school I completed everything and now the school refuses to pay me because my work does not meet their standard. They never told me about a standard and I was never given an example of a standard. In our meeting they said that I could copy from the book and they said that after I told them that I didn't know how to make the exams.

 

 during theDuring the entire month of December I did not have one weekend to relax. I worked really hard on everything and I did this without help. feels like an insult to an injury because the school is being really greedy and selfish right now when I felt like I was doing them a favor by staying on with them. And I've heard I'm not the first person that they've done this too. They've taken 10% out of everybody's paycheck every month as a security deposit and a few foreigners quit last year because of it. This school is known for over working their teachers and they rarely can keep a western teacher for more than an academic year and that's why they take money out of paychecks. It is to prevent people from quitting. So what should I do to get my full salary? Do I have to go to court? I only have 200 Baht. That's it.

Edited January 4, 2019 by TeacherKenAyutthaya

[stubuzz]

Nice story. Read your contract and learn to say no when they want work for free.

Edited January 4, 2019 by stubuzz

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

18 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

Nice story. Read your contract and learn to say no when they want work for free.

I should clarify, behind closed doors on December 11th the administration and I agreed that I would complete for very time-consuming task within three weeks and in exchange I would get my salary for the month including the salary that I was not paid for teaching my special classes in the month prior and November in addition to the current month of December at the time. This is all regarding last month. Because I made an oral agreement with them, don't they have to comply to pay me regardless of the quality of work?

[bwpage3]

By your own admission you are not qualified to be a teacher and you claim to not know grammar, reading, etc.?

 

If you do not know grade 1 to 6 grammar, reading and writing, you have no business teaching anything. How did you graduate HS in the USA without these basic skills?

 

So are you really providing a service to teach Thai kids when you do not know the subject yourself?

 

If you were serious about being a teacher and helping students, you would have stayed in the USA and got a 4 year teaching degree.

 

I suspect at your age you are in Thailand for all the wrong reasons and you only having 200 baht in your pocket proves that.

 

How do you plan to go to court when you are broke? Lawyers are not free!

 

I would suggest you go back home and get the proper qualifications where you can actually teach and save up enough money for an emergency such as you are in now.

 

At 30 something years old, you have no clue how bad you are harming yourself by not paying into the USA social security systems, which needs 40 years of max earnings to peak out once you retire.

 

I suspect after 6 years you probably have a GF or wife that you cannot afford to bring back to the USA and support because you have no education or job skills.

 

"the school refuses to pay me because my work does not meet their standard." 

 

For every single english grade in the world there are examples of curriculum and standards online. Sorry to say, if you were not smart enough to use Google to find these, that is your own fault.

 

The Thai kids deserve REAL teachers and a real shot at learning English

 

If you are in your 30's and do not know basic grade 1 to 6 English you have failed yourself

 

 

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

4 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

By your own admission you are not qualified to be a teacher and you claim to not know grammar, reading, etc.?

 

If you do not know grade 1 to 6 grammar, reading and writing, you have no business teaching anything. How did you graduate HS in the USA without these basic skills?

 

So are you really providing a service to teach Thai kids when you do not know the subject yourself?

 

If you were serious about being a teacher and helping students, you would have stayed in the USA and got a 4 year teaching degree.

 

I suspect at your age you are in Thailand for all the wrong reasons and you only having 200 baht in your pocket proves that.

 

How do you plan to go to court when you are broke? Lawyers are not free!

 

I would suggest you go back home and get the proper qualifications where you can actually teach and save up enough money for an emergency such as you are in now.

 

At 30 something years old, you have no clue how bad you are harming yourself by not paying into the USA social security systems, which needs 40 years of max earnings to peak out once you retire.

 

I suspect after 6 years you probably have a GF or wife that you cannot afford to bring back to the USA and support because you have no education or job skills.

 

"the school refuses to pay me because my work does not meet their standard." 

 

For every single english grade in the world there are examples of curriculum and standards online. Sorry to say, if you were not smart enough to use Google to find these, that is your own fault.

 

The Thai kids deserve REAL teachers and a real shot at learning English

 

If you are in your 30's and do not know basic grade 1 to 6 English you have failed yourself

 

 

 thank you for thank you for your blunt and honest review. We have a saying in the USA, at least in the countryside, you can bring a horse to the river but you cannot force it to drink. Being a teacher is not about being an encyclopedia of knowledge. It's about having the ability to inspire and motivate a curiosity to learn and after that, the ability to explain things so people can understand. People nowadays have a false idea that being a teacher you supposed to be about being an encyclopedia of knowledge. That seems like your definition but I don't care to get into an argument about that. Teaching in Thailand is about inspiring and motivating kids who don't want to learn. I'm nowhere close to teacher of the year but I have been very successful in doing that. Over the past six years I've had students who hate English who have thanked me and applauded me for helping them to enjoy subject that they once dreaded and got bad scores in. Inspirational teachers like me are what Thailand desperately needs considering that it already has many qualified teachers like yourself but the only people who listen to you are the ones who are already interested in English.

 

 I'm sure I'm sure you know how to drive a car. Does that mean you know how to fix it to? It's the same thing about teaching. Just because we speak grammar it doesn't mean that we can explain it and it's not common sense. You are correct that I could go on Google but you don't quite understand my schedule that I was financially forced into. I was teaching six separate grammar courses. One grammar course for first grade another grammar course for second grade another grammar course for third grade. Do you get it? So that's three subjects for six different grade levels and that equals 18 different subjects. Are you telling me that you could have the time to create supplemental materials and learn about how to teach that? I think you should be more respecting of me that I came forward to the school and I was very honest to them about my teaching abilities. And you're failing to focus on the fact that I was originally supposed to be doing marketing which is my specialty. I was not supposed to be teaching but I didn't have any options and so I was financially forced to teach. And you have failed to acknowledge that I told the school what I was able to teach. You instead insult me and act like managing 6 different grade levels of a particular subject is a common-sense thing to do. If it was so common sense then why do we have teaching certificates? Why do teachers in the West need to take 3 year courses and how to teach primary school? This isn't Common Sense stuff. And I'm a hard-working guy. I'm not going to do a half-assed job. I do fully agree with you about the USA. About Trump and Republicans in office I think Social Security isn't something that most people will ever get. And if they do, they'll probably get about $2,000 a month and what good is that? I'd be coming back to Thailand if they are to pay into the American system. Instead of insulting it would be really productive and positive if you could provide some solutions. Anybody can criticize that doesn't take any critical thinking skills. Being the smart teacher you are it would be awesome if you could put I do fully agree with you about the USA. But was Trump and Republicans in office I think Social Security isn't something that most people will ever get. And if they do, they probably get about $2,000 a month and what good is that? I'd be coming back to tile and it's hard to pay into the American system. Instead of insulting it would be really productive and positive if you could provide some solution. Anybody can criticize that doesn't take any critical thinking is ghost. Being the smart teacher you are he would be awesome if you could put that brain power or towards helping a good guy to stay in Thailand longer to inspire and motivate on motivated student to learn English. And as I originally said, I don't consider myself a teacher I consider myself a coach and that is exactly what kids in Thailand need because you cannot force people to learn.

18 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

By your own admission you are not qualified to be a teacher and you claim to not know grammar, reading, etc.?

 

If you do not know grade 1 to 6 grammar, reading and writing, you have no business teaching anything. How did you graduate HS in the USA without these basic skills?

 

So are you really providing a service to teach Thai kids when you do not know the subject yourself?

 

If you were serious about being a teacher and helping students, you would have stayed in the USA and got a 4 year teaching degree.

 

I suspect at your age you are in Thailand for all the wrong reasons and you only having 200 baht in your pocket proves that.

 

How do you plan to go to court when you are broke? Lawyers are not free!

 

I would suggest you go back home and get the proper qualifications where you can actually teach and save up enough money for an emergency such as you are in now.

 

At 30 something years old, you have no clue how bad you are harming yourself by not paying into the USA social security systems, which needs 40 years of max earnings to peak out once you retire.

 

I suspect after 6 years you probably have a GF or wife that you cannot afford to bring back to the USA and support because you have no education or job skills.

 

"the school refuses to pay me because my work does not meet their standard." 

 

For every single english grade in the world there are examples of curriculum and standards online. Sorry to say, if you were not smart enough to use Google to find these, that is your own fault.

 

The Thai kids deserve REAL teachers and a real shot at learning English

 

If you are in your 30's and do not know basic grade 1 to 6 English you have failed yourself

 

 

 Also can you please stick to the subject? It's the school's fault for purposely hiring an unqualified teacher.  I had an agreement with the school to complete for tasks that I was struggling to do without guidelines, standards or instructions. I completed all tasks but school is holding back my paycheck because they are unsatisfied with my work. I'm pretty sure that is illegal. Do you have any advice about this legal matter?

[onlycw]

Ken, this is as bad as it gets. 

 

Just to confirm: this is a private school, isn't it?

 

(Cheating seems to be a national sport which will be most fun when Thais get to rip off some hapless foreigner. YMMV, but I have been dealing with cr*p big and small. At the apartment complex, where polymorph scams are in place, not limited to fabricated meter readings, cooked books and 8 THB per kw/h). 

 

Being asked "not to sign in", then not getting paid due to not having signed in is one of the scams I've experienced repeatedly. Sorry, I just tried to paint the background for a specific answer.

°°°

 

Q: Are you complaining about the 10% withholding, or them embezzling your full salary for the month you worked?!? 

 

Q: Were you  f i r e d? 

---

As a NES, you will get another job. Many folks find jobs outside Thailand. Just heard of even NNES getting highly paid jobs in Oman etc. As a NES with a degree and good work ethic, you really should check out universities in rural China, Vietnam etc.

---

 

Schools can be very creative when it comes to playing games you have depicted. My school delays payment by 10 days with the explicit goal of preventing teachers from doing midnight runs. 

 

A:  Private school? 1. Get an interpreter, some Thai friend and head with your paperwork to the Labour Court. (They will serve the school, set a hearing within weeks and you will get a Thai lawyer assigned. But still rely one more time on your interpreter-friend). If all fails, I have used someone over the phone. 

 

I just posted in the jOBS section. Got an answer. Don't want to cross-post, but certain "work rules" need to be first approved and then published. 

 

Q: Why would the court approve such a scheme, withholding 10%?!? Why stop at 10%, or at 10 days, which is way harsher than 10%, except that it's not cumulative. (Say you started in May. Are we talking 75% of your monthly salary, presuming you started the middle of May?

 

Apologies, I have yet to read the thread. 

[onlycw]

Quote: I should clarify, behind closed doors on December 11th the administration and I agreed that I would complete for very time-consuming task within three weeks and in exchange I would get my salary for the month including the salary that I was not paid for teaching my special classes in the month prior and November in addition to the current month of December at the time. This is all regarding last month. Because I made an oral agreement with them, don't they have to comply to pay me regardless of the quality of work? 

 

Oh, ahh - they have licked blood and now they want to have their cake and eat it. 

 

OP, irrespective of the "quality of your work", I believe that they as a school know pretty well how to evaluate your services. (Few would be putting up with those demands and hours while not getting paid in a timely manner).

 

Act. Google the LABOUR COURT, go there with a friend as translator . Ask a buddy back home to lend you a few grand... 

 

IF the school has clever administrators, they will pay up and do that pdq, pretty darn quickly. Or else, they will appear at a hearing.

 

'Denying those extra classes and unpaid wages will be kind of tough to sell. (Q: are you the only one who ever encountered these issues? The timer doesn't change its spots).

---

One more thing: Go to the RD, Revenue Department. Take your paperwork, say you will  s w e a r how much you are owed. Ask for assistance. Ask for the TAX FORMS for time worked. They cannot claim they paid you and they haven't fired you, so what gives?!?

 

Al Capone went down over tax fraud. 

---

 

Moreover, I would call the Tourist Police on 1155. Embezzlement of wages will be on file. (I have no personal experience. This might be a waste of time. But that call to 1155 will be FREE and if I was the administrator, I would not want rumours about me embezzling foreign teachers wages... ????

---

 

I heard bad things about Labour Departments wasting foreigners' time. They may promise an answer in say "8 weeks' time". You get the drift.

 

Work rules need to be 1. pre-approved and 2. posted. Date of salary payment etc.

 

In a modern world, such embezzlements should only work when they see you as a SUCKER. A guy who will be sitting in a dark corner of a bar, muttering into his beer.

 

 

[onlycw]

OP, may I ask, how much we are talking about?

 

Those 10% withholdings will likely exceed tens of thousands of THB. The extra  classes, are we talking hundreds per week, or much more?

 

What about your main salary and employment status?

 

Q: Have you received your December salary? If yes, how come you spent it all within days? If not, then I would take the gloves off and try to start a war on different fronts. 

---

 

They better pay you until they decide to fire you. Simple, really, wouldn't you agree?

---

 

FWIW, in my first year at a government school, I encountered old Thai teachers (making over 50 k) who got it all wrong regarding grammar. I kid you not. (Some also called in M4 students to do their work as teachers, am not making this up. And we had a clash over them blindly relying on Google Translate back in 2011...)

 

Good luck, OP

[Scott]

Continuing to make inflammatory remarks which are primarily unhelpful will earn a suspension.   I think the OP is asking for specific information.   I am sure if he wants a life coach he will post elsewhere.

 

Teachers are not qualified to teaching anything to any age group.   I once got assigned to teach Physics -- fortunately it was only short term, but I am eminently unqualified to teach it.  

 

I worked in administration end for a number of schools.   I frequently saw teacher's hired and then promptly put in a position that they had not requested and were not capable of teaching.   Some times this was because of staffing issues, but it is completely wrong to then turn around and decry the teacher as being 'unqualified'.  

 

Teaching grammar is a bit of specialty area and not everyone can teach it.  Knowing grammar is one thing, teaching it to non-native speakers is another.  Likewise, some teachers do well with older students, but have difficulty with teaching younger learners.  

 

Now, please stay on topic.  

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

12 hours ago, onlycw said:

Ken, this is as bad as it gets. 

 

Just to confirm: this is a private school, isn't it?

 

(Cheating seems to be a national sport which will be most fun when Thais get to rip off some hapless foreigner. YMMV, but I have been dealing with cr*p big and small. At the apartment complex, where polymorph scams are in place, not limited to fabricated meter readings, cooked books and 8 THB per kw/h). 

 

Being asked "not to sign in", then not getting paid due to not having signed in is one of the scams I've experienced repeatedly. Sorry, I just tried to paint the background for a specific answer.

°°°

 

Q: Are you complaining about the 10% withholding, or them embezzling your full salary for the month you worked?!? 

 

Q: Were you  f i r e d? 

---

As a NES, you will get another job. Many folks find jobs outside Thailand. Just heard of even NNES getting highly paid jobs in Oman etc. As a NES with a degree and good work ethic, you really should check out universities in rural China, Vietnam etc.

---

 

Schools can be very creative when it comes to playing games you have depicted. My school delays payment by 10 days with the explicit goal of preventing teachers from doing midnight runs. 

 

A:  Private school? 1. Get an interpreter, some Thai friend and head with your paperwork to the Labour Court. (They will serve the school, set a hearing within weeks and you will get a Thai lawyer assigned. But still rely one more time on your interpreter-friend). If all fails, I have used someone over the phone. 

 

I just posted in the jOBS section. Got an answer. Don't want to cross-post, but certain "work rules" need to be first approved and then published. 

 

Q: Why would the court approve such a scheme, withholding 10%?!? Why stop at 10%, or at 10 days, which is way harsher than 10%, except that it's not cumulative. (Say you started in May. Are we talking 75% of your monthly salary, presuming you started the middle of May?

 

Apologies, I have yet to read the thread. 

 thankful for studying on subject and providing useful information. You're right, thankful for staying on subject and providing useful information. You're right, I definitely could go to China Vietnam or any other country. But I've been in the same town for 6 years and I'm trying to stay in the same town for 6 years because I'm working on a project that I designed to stop pollution. I'm not going to be a teacher forever and I was never the plan. I'm here to build an environmental Consultation business. Thailand is in trash crisis and I have the education, knowledge and background about how to solve that crisis. Coaching English is something that I love to do and I'm good at it and it gets me the time and money to work on my career to stop pollution in Thailand on the side.  my goal is to help the local government stop pollution in my town and then hopefully I can use at success to stop pollution around the entire country on a Town by Town basis.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TeacherKenAyutthaya

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

12 hours ago, onlycw said:

OP, may I ask, how much we are talking about?

 

Those 10% withholdings will likely exceed tens of thousands of THB. The extra  classes, are we talking hundreds per week, or much more?

 

What about your main salary and employment status?

 

Q: Have you received your December salary? If yes, how come you spent it all within days? If not, then I would take the gloves off and try to start a war on different fronts. 

---

 

They better pay you until they decide to fire you. Simple, really, wouldn't you agree?

---

 

FWIW, in my first year at a government school, I encountered old Thai teachers (making over 50 k) who got it all wrong regarding grammar. I kid you not. (Some also called in M4 students to do their work as teachers, am not making this up. And we had a clash over them blindly relying on Google Translate back in 2011...)

 

Good luck, OP

I was never paid for December. That's the problem. I'm just trying to get my salary for December and my salary for teaching extra classes in November and December.

 

The 10% is 3500 and my salary is only 35000. 10% has been taken out of all of the foreigners paychecks in the foreigners complain but they stay there because they have no other job options.

 

And this school wonders why they can't keep people from more than a year. Behind closed doors we had an agreement that I would do for task that were brutally time-consuming during my full-time teaching and many other additional extracurricular time-consuming duties as well.

 

I completed them all and the school only wants to give me 20,000 which is the normal salary that they give to their overworked foreign teachers. But my contract is for 35,000.

 

So all of this trouble is just over a measly 15000 is not that much money to them but it's a lot of money to me.

 

The reason why I only have 200 left is because I have been paying for all of the fees associated with becoming a legal work at for my next job.

When you factor in the cost of visa run and buying a work permit and buying a non B and everything that comes out to roughly 20,000. So that is where my November paycheck went to and I have not been paid my December paycheck.

 

So the school would stubbornly want to go to court over 15000 Baht instead of just paying me and moving on with our lives. In the land of smiles and comfort I would think that the school would have yielded instead of making a mountain out of an anthill. Thank you for your kind reply and asking questions to understand.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TeacherKenAyutthaya

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

Continuing to make inflammatory remarks which are primarily unhelpful will earn a suspension.   I think the OP is asking for specific information.   I am sure if he wants a life coach he will post elsewhere.

 

Teachers are not qualified to teaching anything to any age group.   I once got assigned to teach Physics -- fortunately it was only short term, but I am eminently unqualified to teach it.  

 

I worked in administration end for a number of schools.   I frequently saw teacher's hired and then promptly put in a position that they had not requested and were not capable of teaching.   Some times this was because of staffing issues, but it is completely wrong to then turn around and decry the teacher as being 'unqualified'.  

 

Teaching grammar is a bit of specialty area and not everyone can teach it.  Knowing grammar is one thing, teaching it to non-native speakers is another.  Likewise, some teachers do well with older students, but have difficulty with teaching younger learners.  

 

Now, please stay on topic.  

 thank you Scott, you are absolutely correct. When I was talking my 120hr TESOL course, "grammar" was a specialization. It's not common sense. And even more on that, explaining grammar to a classroom full of first graders is not the same as explaining it to a classroom full of 6th graders, high schoolers or adults. Some people don't think about that. The international school that I worked for had 400 students 10 years ago and now they currently have less than a hundred. Their school is failing and they have recently taken out a multi-million fart loud. What they're doing to save money is underpaying 1 native English speaker to take on the classes of refrigerants. And that's the position that I was going to actually forced into. Perhaps the school should hire mr. BW. He tends to know everything. Perhaps he could teach the schedule that I had which was as follows.

 

Grammar: p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week. So 6 lesson plans each week for only this subject.

 

Reading and Writing : p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week. So 6 lesson plans each week for only this subject.

 

Speaking and Listening : p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week. So 6 lesson plans each week for only this subject.

 

 

That's 18 lesson plans every week. 20000thb/mo with 10% taken out for security deposit. You get the 10% back at the end of the term. Ok, bw? I'll set up an interview for you to replace me for those classes. You won't get the 35,000 like it did. Sorry.

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

12 hours ago, onlycw said:

Quote: I should clarify, behind closed doors on December 11th the administration and I agreed that I would complete for very time-consuming task within three weeks and in exchange I would get my salary for the month including the salary that I was not paid for teaching my special classes in the month prior and November in addition to the current month of December at the time. This is all regarding last month. Because I made an oral agreement with them, don't they have to comply to pay me regardless of the quality of work? 

 

Oh, ahh - they have licked blood and now they want to have their cake and eat it. 

 

OP, irrespective of the "quality of your work", I believe that they as a school know pretty well how to evaluate your services. (Few would be putting up with those demands and hours while not getting paid in a timely manner).

 

Act. Google the LABOUR COURT, go there with a friend as translator . Ask a buddy back home to lend you a few grand... 

 

IF the school has clever administrators, they will pay up and do that pdq, pretty darn quickly. Or else, they will appear at a hearing.

 

'Denying those extra classes and unpaid wages will be kind of tough to sell. (Q: are you the only one who ever encountered these issues? The timer doesn't change its spots).

---

One more thing: Go to the RD, Revenue Department. Take your paperwork, say you will  s w e a r how much you are owed. Ask for assistance. Ask for the TAX FORMS for time worked. They cannot claim they paid you and they haven't fired you, so what gives?!?

 

Al Capone went down over tax fraud. 

---

 

Moreover, I would call the Tourist Police on 1155. Embezzlement of wages will be on file. (I have no personal experience. This might be a waste of time. But that call to 1155 will be FREE and if I was the administrator, I would not want rumours about me embezzling foreign teachers wages... ????

---

 

I heard bad things about Labour Departments wasting foreigners' time. They may promise an answer in say "8 weeks' time". You get the drift.

 

Work rules need to be 1. pre-approved and 2. posted. Date of salary payment etc.

 

In a modern world, such embezzlements should only work when they see you as a SUCKER. A guy who will be sitting in a dark corner of a bar, muttering into his beer.

 

 

 fun read and sound advice! Thank you!

[TonyClifton]

13 hours ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

Because I made an oral agreement with them, don't they have to comply to pay me regardless of the quality of work?

Any lawyer or judge would tell you that oral arguments are admissible and binding, however, they can be hard to prove.  Was anyone else there who heard this agreement?

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been reported and now removed, the replies have been removed as well. 

 

Troll posts have been removed as well. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by metisdead

[scorecard]

14 hours ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

 thank you for thank you for your blunt and honest review. We have a saying in the USA, at least in the countryside, you can bring a horse to the river but you cannot force it to drink. Being a teacher is not about being an encyclopedia of knowledge. It's about having the ability to inspire and motivate a curiosity to learn and after that, the ability to explain things so people can understand. People nowadays have a false idea that being a teacher you supposed to be about being an encyclopedia of knowledge. That seems like your definition but I don't care to get into an argument about that. Teaching in Thailand is about inspiring and motivating kids who don't want to learn. I'm nowhere close to teacher of the year but I have been very successful in doing that. Over the past six years I've had students who hate English who have thanked me and applauded me for helping them to enjoy subject that they once dreaded and got bad scores in. Inspirational teachers like me are what Thailand desperately needs considering that it already has many qualified teachers like yourself but the only people who listen to you are the ones who are already interested in English.

 

 I'm sure I'm sure you know how to drive a car. Does that mean you know how to fix it to? It's the same thing about teaching. Just because we speak grammar it doesn't mean that we can explain it and it's not common sense. You are correct that I could go on Google but you don't quite understand my schedule that I was financially forced into. I was teaching six separate grammar courses. One grammar course for first grade another grammar course for second grade another grammar course for third grade. Do you get it? So that's three subjects for six different grade levels and that equals 18 different subjects. Are you telling me that you could have the time to create supplemental materials and learn about how to teach that? I think you should be more respecting of me that I came forward to the school and I was very honest to them about my teaching abilities. And you're failing to focus on the fact that I was originally supposed to be doing marketing which is my specialty. I was not supposed to be teaching but I didn't have any options and so I was financially forced to teach. And you have failed to acknowledge that I told the school what I was able to teach. You instead insult me and act like managing 6 different grade levels of a particular subject is a common-sense thing to do. If it was so common sense then why do we have teaching certificates? Why do teachers in the West need to take 3 year courses and how to teach primary school? This isn't Common Sense stuff. And I'm a hard-working guy. I'm not going to do a half-assed job. I do fully agree with you about the USA. About Trump and Republicans in office I think Social Security isn't something that most people will ever get. And if they do, they'll probably get about $2,000 a month and what good is that? I'd be coming back to Thailand if they are to pay into the American system. Instead of insulting it would be really productive and positive if you could provide some solutions. Anybody can criticize that doesn't take any critical thinking skills. Being the smart teacher you are it would be awesome if you could put I do fully agree with you about the USA. But was Trump and Republicans in office I think Social Security isn't something that most people will ever get. And if they do, they probably get about $2,000 a month and what good is that? I'd be coming back to tile and it's hard to pay into the American system. Instead of insulting it would be really productive and positive if you could provide some solution. Anybody can criticize that doesn't take any critical thinking is ghost. Being the smart teacher you are he would be awesome if you could put that brain power or towards helping a good guy to stay in Thailand longer to inspire and motivate on motivated student to learn English. And as I originally said, I don't consider myself a teacher I consider myself a coach and that is exactly what kids in Thailand need because you cannot force people to learn.

 Also can you please stick to the subject? It's the school's fault for purposely hiring an unqualified teacher.  I had an agreement with the school to complete for tasks that I was struggling to do without guidelines, standards or instructions. I completed all tasks but school is holding back my paycheck because they are unsatisfied with my work. I'm pretty sure that is illegal. Do you have any advice about this legal matter?

 

You might be assuming too much to say they must pay you even if the work is poor quality. 

 

It's possible (repeat possible) if tested the judge would say that any employer is entitled to expect 'satisfactory work' for an agreed reward. And there is possibly a debatable point about whether or not the school gave you enough guidelines etc.

 

All of the above needs serious legal interpretation. 

 

(That's putting aside all the other mess you wrote.) (By the way why the: "I'm sure i'm sure...." double start too many paragraphs?) 

[toolpush]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

You might be assuming too much to say they must pay you even if the work is poor quality. 

 

It's possible (repeat possible) if tested the judge would say that any employer is entitled to expect 'satisfactory work' for an agreed reward. And there is possibly a debatable point about whether or not the school gave you enough guidelines etc.

 

All of the above needs serious legal interpretation. 

 

(That's putting aside all the other mess you wrote.) (By the way why the: "I'm sure i'm sure...." double start too many paragraphs?) 

Agreed. Why the poor English overall? From an English teacher?????

[Thingamabob]

For heaven's sake. Enough already. Go home, grow up, and having done that, try again if you think it's worth it.

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

3 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Any lawyer or judge would tell you that oral arguments are admissible and binding, however, they can be hard to prove.  Was anyone else there who heard this agreement?

I figured that... So that's why I recorded the social agreement without permission or knowledge of the administration.

[geriatrickid]

I regret that I have nothing of value to offer the OP. However, lecturing him on side issues is neither helpful, nor kind. Surely, we can  be better than that?

 

My takeaway as a parent would be to  verify the school's  payment  and teacher accreditation  methods. I wouldn't want my kid taught by someone like the OP, nor attending a school this poorly administered.

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

1 hour ago, toolpush said:

Agreed. Why the poor English overall? From an English teacher?????

 nothing about this is about poor English or the inability of a native English speaker to teach.

 

It's about a meeting behind closed doors between myself and the administration of the international school that I worked for.

 

 I completed an impossible amount of work within an impossible time frame (in accordance to my oral agreement with them) and the school is refusing to pay me my full salary because they are not satisfied with the quality of my work which we never had any sort of agreement about.

 

 This teaching position is not your normal teaching position where you have to make less than 5 final exams and less than 5 course syllabus. ????️ I had 18 text books do you teach a teen different classes. In three weeks time,  the school wanted me to create and finish 18 separate midterm exams and 18 separate course syllabus to their liking and they did not provide any examples or guidelines about what they wanted.

 

????This school is very unorganized and they have been unable to keep a western teacher and their school for more than a contract year.

 

So it's not about being able to teach her not, it's about taking on an abusive workload within three weeks of time ???? and I tried my best to do that and they're not satisfied with the work.  I could have just quit on December 3rd but I care about the kids and I wanted to finish my work and I also needed money for rent and food so I decided to stay and do everything they wanted.

 

But according to our meeting behind closed doors, there is no standard or guideline for my work. So I tried the best that I could and I did the best work that I could. And they're holding my paycheck hostage because they want me to redo that work and it took about two hours to make one exam.

 

How much work? If multiply 2 by 18 and that tells you how many hours it takes to create all of the exams. I don't know of anybody who would have 36 hours  to make 18 exams  during full-time teaching of 18 different classes, training kids for an academic competition and also training  first grade and second grade for a Christmas show. And that also doesn't include  making a teen course syllabus.  I did all of that to the best of my ability and without help.

 

 

I think it's illegal for them to withhold my December paycheck from me. And that's why I'm here. I'm here to get legal advice from Did experienced teachers like yourself. I have not been paid since November Thirty and I only have 200 Baht left because I've had to pay tens of thousands of bots for immigration fees for my new job in addition to paying for rent paying for food and everything else.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TeacherKenAyutthaya

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

5 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

I regret that I have nothing of value to offer the OP. However, lecturing him on side issues is neither helpful, nor kind. Surely, we can  be better than that?

 

My takeaway as a parent would be to  verify the school's  payment  and teacher accreditation  methods. I wouldn't want my kid taught by someone like the OP, nor attending a school this poorly administered.

  and that's a big reason why I did not want to teach grammar and reading and writing. The parents of this school are paying Bangkok prices but their kids are getting a shit education.  I believe that a classroom is a reflection of the teacher. If the teacher is happy then the kids are going to be happy too. My University degree is in speech communication and I told the school that I only wanted to teach speaking and listening because that's what I know about. I'm really good at teaching vocabulary, teaching phonics and all that stuff. But I don't know how to teach grammar and reading and writing and the school forced me into it. Do you think you would be a good idea for me to tell the parents about this or is it illegal?

[TeacherKenAyutthaya]

1 minute ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

  and that's a big reason why I did not want to teach grammar and reading and writing. The parents of this school are paying Bangkok prices but their kids are getting a shit education.  I believe that a classroom is a reflection of the teacher. If the teacher is happy then the kids are going to be happy too. My University degree is in speech communication and I told the school that I only wanted to teach speaking and listening because that's what I know about. I'm really good at teaching vocabulary, teaching phonics and all that stuff. But I don't know how to teach grammar and reading and writing and the school forced me into it. Do you think you would be a good idea for me to tell the parents about this or is it illegal?

 Also, I want to have the school investigated because they have other teachers who are not qualified to teach they were working there.

 

I've already searched on Google but didn't find anything.

 

????Does anybody here know of a government Department that will audit the quality of schools?

Edited January 5, 2019 by TeacherKenAyutthaya
Typo

[mike324]

Your only option is to approach the labor department, most of the time they are pretty good at dealing with issues. But to save your time and headache, just cut your losses and move on. This is Thailand, schools hiring poor teachers is the least of their worries. Heck school masters and teachers can get away with teachers hitting kids, your issues is childs play.

 

The only way you can even be notice is create a controversy and post it on social media and get Thais to rally behind you. But once you name the school on social media, you can be charge with defamation....you get my point

[PerkinsCuthbert]

1 hour ago, mike324 said:

Your only option is to approach the labor department, most of the time they are pretty good at dealing with issues. But to save your time and headache, just cut your losses and move on. This is Thailand, schools hiring poor teachers is the least of their worries. Heck school masters and teachers can get away with teachers hitting kids, your issues is childs play.

 

The only way you can even be notice is create a controversy and post it on social media and get Thais to rally behind you. But once you name the school on social media, you can be charge with defamation....you get my point

I'd agree with this, and go further: firstly, if you really must pursue this, do so because you absolutely need the money, not because you wish to have revenge; you are very unlikely to get any satisfaction on the latter score. Second, be sure that you are on firm ground yourself, certification- and visa-wise; you may get significant push back from the school in question which, if you do not have your ducks in a row, will bring you nothing but worse aggravation. Lastly, go through the correct channels to complain, as advised by others above.

Personally, I doubt that you will get any remuneration from a verbal agreement - it is too deniable, even with a recording it can be twisted and even used against you. Remember, you are a non-Thai in Thailand, equality under the law is a malleable concept here. But you may, with patience and without losing your rag, be able to come to some compromise with the school, after due negotiation between the pertinent Thai department and the school.

[TonyClifton]

3 hours ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

I figured that... So that's why I recorded the social agreement without permission or knowledge of the administration.

Make sure you understand the law on recording conversations here.  I have no idea how it compares to America.  

[BritManToo]

21 hours ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

So what should I do to get my full salary?

Report them to the labour department, stop working immediately, no more classes.

Not being good at a job is no reason to deny you salary for time already worked, that's their problem.

 

Forget revenge and investigations, that won't get you any money, just problems.

Edited January 5, 2019 by BritManToo

[TonyClifton]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Report them to the labour department, stop working immediately.

There's nothing worse than a disgruntled employee.  I'm sure if one peeks under some of the veneer, you'll find they don't register themselves properly, and are probably up to no good.  If they will cheat their teachers, what else will they do?  

 

Sometimes sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TonyClifton

[Scott]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Report them to the labour department, stop working immediately, no more classes.

Not being good at a job is no reason to deny you salary for time already worked, that's their problem.

 

Forget revenge and investigations, that won't get you any money, just problems.

I'd tend to agree, with the exception of the part about stopping teaching.   If you have a different job, then by all means go for it, but stopping teaching reflects badly on you and may damage your case. 

 

I attended hearings where there were disgruntled teachers who were making monetary claims.   Most were clearly not good cases, but I attended one where a teacher had pulled a runner.   He was working without a contract because the school had been slow in re-issuing the new contracts, although everyone had been informed a contract would be forthcoming. 

 

The local area education office was hearing the case -- it was referred to them by the labor department, ruled in favor of the school, but there primary concern was that the teacher left without notification.   This violated not only his old contract, but Thai labor law.   Had he followed the procedure, I think his award would have been granted.

 

The OP's situation is different (most cases have variables), but a notice needs to be given and it needs to be in writing.   I believe it is a month's notice by law.  

 

Reporting unqualified teachers generally doesn't get anyone anywhere.   I've seen it done before, to no effect. 

 

[alien365]

8 hours ago, TeacherKenAyutthaya said:

 grammar: p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week.

 

Reading and Writing : p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week.

 

Speaking and Listening : p1/1, p2/1, p3/1, p4/1, p5/1 and p6/1.  That's 6 different text books and you have them once a week.

 

If you had to make all these lesson plans, syllabi and exams, what were the other NES doing?

 

Regarding your position I think all you can do is report them to the labour department (as others have mentioned) but I wouldn't expect any recompense.