Very sad goings-on in Pattaya

[Jack100]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

 

anyway, re your observations in Patts

 

I don't see any mentioning here of the Crawler on lower Sukh in BKK

he is crawling on his stomach in the gutter between Asoke and Soi 4, both sides of Sukh

raining flooding or whatever -no sweat - he crawls in his shitty rags

has been doing that for years and years

 

he drives a Benz, on 2 occasions I've had a beer with him

 

but, by all means - challenged people have a hard life in LoS - not much safety network here

 

 

 

Regarding the crawler , there was one in Nana Soi 7  below the BTS, when I came to BKK in 2004 , recently I was amazed to see another one in the same place maybe younger looking . I wonder if these prime  ' sites ' get sold on?

Maybe there will a beggers Monopoly board one day . !

[Wake Up]

Last year checked into the Marriott Marquis in Bangkok for a holiday week. Normal I get upgraded to a suite for free by Marriott. But the manager apologized because some group had bought all the suites at the hotel for the week. The only group at the hotel was a well known international children’s charity that was holding a conference at the hotel and had nightly activities like ballroom dancing, live bands,  and open bars etc.. all week. I cannot imagine the total amount of donated money they spent on extravagance for that week. Bet they also flew first class airfares to attend the conference but I can not verify this airfare statement. ???????????????? sad and sick use of others people’s generosity. 

[Hanuman2547]

In reply to the original poster, by her something to eat and drink.  She can probably use both.

[55Jay]

OP, what's your exposure to the world?  Seems like a naive observation and reaction. 

[Burma Bill]

Very sad indeed and I fully appreciate the concern. On my travels I have seen similar begging by young children in Cambodia, Burma and Brazil. If you go to Maesai in North West Thailand and cross the Friendship Bridge into Tachilek (Burma) you may witness young Burmese children begging for money and then, when given some, go to a lady sat nearby who collects the money. Even worse in Brazil's Rio. Some very young children are crippled by having bones deliberately broken and then forced by criminals to beg on their knees - literally - for the rest of their lives. It was the Brazilian Football Association who informed and warned me (and other referees) of this evil practice during an International Soccer Tournament. 

[Ulic]

3 hours ago, wombat said:

pmsl....same same but different

This is the reason why I would rather and do give to the rummies in front of the LCBO (booze shops) in Ontario Canada. No bullshit, no scam. I know that he is begging for money to buy booze. He will spend 100% on whatever is his choice. (80% goes back to the government in taxes) I know that it is unhealthy but my 5-10 dollar donation will give him a bit of a buzz and a couple of hours of happiness/relief. Maybe not PC but I am not being deluded by the likes of UNICEF/UNITED WAY/RED CROSS or private NGO's that operate across the first world-third world. Fat salaries and massive benefits/expense packages for those running the scams, pennies on the dollar to those in need. Nothing will change for the better in Africa while a much-loved famine brings hardship and starvation to the population and fattens the bank accounts of corrupt politicians. Disgusting to see pictures of starving pot-bellied stick children passed around for photo opportunities by NGO's to drive their fundraising campaigns. After the Tacloban typhoon in Philippines NGO's given airport priority for private planes to fly in so the fundraising commercials could be filmed. Relief planes carrying food-medicine and much-needed supplies pushed back. 

Yes, I buy a 20KG bag of rice at MAKRO when the orphanages are there soliciting at the entrance. But I am really never sure what is going on. I really only trust the rummies when it comes to knowing how my donation is being spent. 

[rascalman]

I have seen this in Chiang Mai, the girl's with young children. Begging dropped off then picked up. Sad. 

[moreem]

The OP just discovered poverty ! Ridiculous.

 

 

[jimn]

You have been conned. These people are getting more money then you are. In fact I see the one you mentioned all the time on Walking Street. She probably jogs all the way home.

[aledale]

It happens also in italy with gipsy family (rom)... So I can't really understand why every time there is a politician from European Union speaks bad of italy about them. Also france has big problems with them and Romanian dislike them. Instead europe institution lovesal and spend money for them: supporting, paying everything. Courts don't put them in prison when they use children for begging or sell them. Europe even pretend that we learn their culture, teaching us in the primary school... 

But it is the political correctness.

So don't blame what happens here, because it happens the same in our countries, in our towns...

Edited January 11, 2019 by aledale

[rwill]

I know of a government run place in Ratchaburi for handicapped children.  I would imagine there are more places like it around.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/tUBzr35DZkJ2

 

 

 

[Foexie]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 6:55 PM, WhyamIhere said:

she is a slave to scum-bags who live off of her. She said that they take all of the money and only provide enough food to keep her alive.

This is not only in Thailand but all over the world. Here there are also groups of eastern european peoples who "temporarily import" pregnant women, women with small babies, peoples with disabilities and put them on the street for hours. After their "day job" they been picked up, cleaned from their money, get some food and prepared for the next day again. After a while they been moved to another city or country to do the same. The scums make the money the victims get scratches.

 

The only thing you can do is being harsh and not give a cent. From the moment those "bosses" start to realise they will not make money anymore this will stop because it will only cost them money.

19 hours ago, bbko said:

If you really want to help crippled beggars, DO NOT give money directly to them, it will only make them or their handlers keep them dragging their crippled bodies around town, instead give to the NGOs that are dedicated to helping the disabled.  There's several NGO's in Pattaya set up to helping the less fortunate;  Fr Ray Foundation, Redemptorist Foundation for People with Disabilities, Redemptorist Vocational School for People with Disabilities, all these places are located behind Big C Extra on Pattaya Klang. 

If these organisations really help those peoples i think it is a great idea to do. Thank you for that.

[Skeptic7]

While your sentiment is understood and appreciated, nothing new here and you fell right in to the trap. Doubtful the girl gets to keep much or any of the take. Been a sad reality here for decades. Was warned about this beggar mafia by a Thai friend 25 years ago. Bangkok Post has had articles on this awful business. There are books that mention it. In some instances, it is said that some people are actually maimed/mutilated by the mafia and put out to beg. Hope this isn't the case, but humans can be a cruel and awful lot.

 

Do a search on it and lots of hits and articles around the globe, especially SE Asia. 

[poohy]

Its very sad But

Very likely Mafia related with police protection

 

Give food water etc NOT money that really is the only way to help the girl any and all money will be taken by her operators

[Dick Crank]

On January 10, 2019 at 11:08 AM, neeray said:

No doubt, very sad story. Your concern and compassion is appreciated.

 

I too was of assistance to a selective few in need, usually mother with baby in arms. However, my Thai gf was very opposed to me assisting as she said they were all 'professional' beggars and scammers. This was in Chiang Mai at the night markets.

 

It is a tuff call. Hope you follow through on this and enlighten others to your findings.

You don't really know its a scam unless you follow them home.

 

So what's more accurate, a rumor it's a scam, or the person in front of you who probably would not be there if they had enough?

 

i just give and figure if it is a scam the beggar will be smart enough to keep a little even if they are shaked down later, better then nothing, right.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Dick Crank

[marinediscoking]

The Title of this thread should be "Handicapped beggars seen in Pattaya"! 

The OP, who has obviously never been here before uses a vague title to get bm's to view his topic as if we didn't know this goes on here, like its something new. I am guessing the first beggars showed up here a week after the first American Gi. 

I don't want to sound cold to the needy but the ones that I sometimes give money too or buy a meal for are who aren't asking for expecting anything. 

 

[oldrunner]

As a child I had Polio (Infantile Paralysis) before Dr. Salk's time. I don't remember how long I was in Camden Municipal Hospital, Camden, New Jersey (no longer in existence) but I was very young, maybe 4 or 6. Fortunately I walked out of that hospital and lived a normal life. I used to carry those "Dime" cards for March of Dimes for years. I no longer do that but occasionally wrote a check. Once I learned of the upper level "rip offs", I stopped donating. I don't think there still is a "March of Dimes".

 

[rickudon]

Seems Udon Thani may be more progressive. There were a few beggars around some years ago (including a young girl who sold flowers around the bars, supposedly for her uncle), but the local government did say that they were stopping it, and haven't seen any for years.

 

You do get the people selling stuff at the traffic lights on the roads and they may be run by gangs, but they are all able bodied and adults.

 

Some effort is put into providing jobs for disabled people, who make up about 50% of the lottery ticket vendors. Another man i know has a specially adapted tuk-tuk for his wheelchair, and he has a reserved parking spot at BigC. Not sure what his job is though. All disabled people are entitled to a pension, same as old people. Not enough to live on, but it helps.

 

I did help out at a local disabled persons charity for a couple of years, handling donations from foreigners so they could be assured the money was spent on useful things. That charity now wound up as the founder (a disabled person) got married and had a child so too busy to run it any more.

[Monkeyrobot]

I am sorry to say the only way to solve the problem is to not give money, you are only paying the mafia, most Thai NGOs also recommend this, around the sky train stations in Bangkok, there are many women begging with there so called children that are human traffic from Cambodia, this is a well oiled business that runs on a daily basis by the mafia. The best thing you can do is take photos or video and send it to the newspapers with the story, also placing this information on Facebook and other social media will then draw attention. Only then will the police and government step up due to the fact of embarrassment. You could also send the information to human rights groups, It’s like that young Saudi girl at the airport , basically Twitter and social media saved the misery of being shipped back home for a beating. In your case I think the pen will be mightier than the sword & you won’t have a hit squad after you. Good luck. 

[Cake Monster]

On 1/11/2019 at 6:03 AM, balo said:

Maybe nxt time offer food and drinks to her instead so the mafia gets nothing! 

 

A very good and practical way in which to assist these kind of people . 

However, take care when giving your donation to the person, that prying eyes are not watching you.

This may result in a beating for the beggar, and possibly one for you also, as you have deprived the minders of the money they seek.

[Mavideol]

On 1/11/2019 at 6:03 AM, balo said:

Maybe next time offer food and drinks to her instead so the mafia gets nothing! 

I did follow your advise and the beggars next to my place ALL refused the meal & drinks, they said only accept cash donations same with the monks, they turn down my food offerings and asked for dollars, not baht, dollars

[Monkeyrobot]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

I did follow your advise and the beggars next to my place ALL refused the meal & drinks, they said only accept cash donations same with the monks, they turn down my food offerings and asked for dollars, not baht, dollars

Monks never except cash, not to mu knowledge anyway. 

[bbi1]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:08 AM, neeray said:

No doubt, very sad story. Your concern and compassion is appreciated.

 

I too was of assistance to a selective few in need, usually mother with baby in arms. However, my Thai gf was very opposed to me assisting as she said they were all 'professional' beggars and scammers. This was in Chiang Mai at the night markets.

 

It is a tuff call. Hope you follow through on this and enlighten others to your findings.

I really don't understand how can lots of you guys being oblivious to knowing that most of the beggars in tourist areas whether they're in BKK, Pattaya, Phuket or any other area are mafia controlled and all the money they collect gets taken away to their mafia handlers. Yet people are happy to give away money to the mafia by giving to them. If you want to really help them, give them food and water, not cash. Others that aren't controlled by mafia can spend money on alcohol and cigarettes if you give to them. And why would you give cash to the million of single mother beggers who most are not Thai? If they can bang and get a kid then I don't support them, just walk past them. Those single mums make a killing begging. I saw some fool give one 100 baht!! Imagine how much she makes in a day!!

Edited January 13, 2019 by bbi1

[bbi1]

On 1/11/2019 at 1:45 PM, kingstonkid said:

If she is working for mafia  she will refuse the food.   The sad thing is that this happens in every country.   I didn't know that until I lived in Pakistan.   Our drivers used to keep fruit in the car.   Mothers with babies would come looking for money for food but refuse food no matter what it was.   On one corner we could see the handlers waiting. 

 

I am not naive to think that it doesn't happen  in big cities in Canada where groups can control an intersection.

 

 

If anyone wants to give money to the poor, stop being stupid and giving money to the majority of beggers you see on the street who are all mafia controlled. Look for the poor that are carrying big bags of plastic bottles and digging on the bins to find more plastic bottles to recycle and give them some money. They are truly working their ass off and are not mafia controlled and aren't sitting on the street waiting for handouts from stupid foreigners.

[bbi1]

What I can't understand is how stupid some Thai people are who also give money to these mafia controlled beggers. Surely a Thai person would know those beggers are mafia controlled as this is their own country and have been living here all their lives, or are they that stupid or naive?

[Mavideol]

18 hours ago, Monkeyrobot said:

Monks never except cash, not to mu knowledge anyway. 

to your knowledge..... to my experience and seeing with my own eyes they do collect cash, maybe not visible cash bills but inside the brown envelope

 

PS. before submitting post spell check

[bbi1]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:39 PM, Kerryd said:

Obviously it isn't the lifestyle most of us want to see (or think about) but that is the reality for a lot of people in a lot of poorer countries. The people who look after those beggars know that foreigners are a soft touch, which is why you see those people in the "touristy" areas and rarely anywhere else.

But a lot of Thais also donate to them, probably fully aware that the beggar probably isn't getting a lot of what they make.

 

It reminds me as well of all the old people you see pushing carts around the city and rummaging in the trash for any tiny bit of recyclable material they can find. My neighbour tells me that plastics fetch about 5 baht per kilogram and cardboard is about 3 baht per kilo.

 

Those old people will spend the better part of the whole day pushing their carts around and maybe ending up with 50-100 baht worth of recyclables in a day. But what choice do they have otherwise ? Not much. Work or die. Or, work until you die. They really don't have any other options.

Why do you think Thai people donate to those beggars if they know? Is it stupidity or what? I've never seen Thai people donate money to one of those people collecting recyclables, which they should be doing rather than beggars who are controlled by mafia.

Edited January 13, 2019 by bbi1

[Kerryd]

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

Why do you think Thai people donate to those beggars if they know? Is it stupidity or what? I've never seen Thai people donate money to one of those people collecting recyclables, which they should be doing rather than beggars who are controlled by mafia.

Thais will donate to those beggars for the same reason they buy fish or turtles and let them free in the ocean or birds at some temples. For the same reason they (often) throw some small money on the body at a funeral, or walk down a row of collection bowls and drop some small coins in each one.

 

They do it to earn a wee bit of "merit", in the hopes that in their next incarnation they will at least come back as human (again) if they don't achieve enlightenment. It's not so much who they give to, or how much, as it is the act of giving. 20 baht to a beggar on the street or 20 baht in a box at the temple - it all earns a little bit of "merit". 
Some may know that the birds at the temples are "trained" to fly back to the cage when the handler whistles for them. Some may know that most of the fish/turtles they let go will probably be dead within minutes. Some know that the people running the crematorium will scoop all the loose change they can find on a body and pocket it before it goes into oven. 
"Som nom na". In their eyes, they've done their good deed and earned their little bit of merit. What happens afterwards is beyond their control. 

That is why they do it.

I haven't seen them donate money to the old folks collecting recyclables, but I have seen them sort their stuff and then hand over bags of bottles or stacks of cardboard. Quite often I see people on my soi walk past one home and hang a bag full of bottles on the gate or leave a pile of cardboard there for the old lady that lives there to add to the pile she's collected from elsewhere.

Then once every 10 days or so she calls in a truck (usually run by a husband and wife duo) who weigh, re-sort and rebag all the stuff she's accumulated and load the truck. Seems the old lady makes maybe 800-1000 baht each time, so maybe an average of 2,400-3,000 a month. Even when she was in better health and having the truck come every week, she still was only averaging 3,200-4,000 a month.

Less than 2/3rds of what someone making minimum wage would earn working 5 days a week.

Not how I want to envision spending my old age, that's for sure.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 hours ago, Mavideol said:

I did follow your advise and the beggars next to my place ALL refused the meal & drinks, they said only accept cash donations same with the monks, they turn down my food offerings and asked for dollars, not baht, dollars

 

If you're running into "monks" who say they only accept cash, then they're probably the FAKE monks running around, some from China and elsewhere, who are scammers. Real Thai monks who are legitimate gather mainly food donations, and sometimes personal care type stuff.

 

[mserror]

They do this with kids too. In Bangkok, my Thai friends tried to help a beggar child, but the child was frightened and kept looking around, probably for the pimp. It was too difficult and they did nothing.

 

Sometimes the kids are kidnapped.

 

People giving just perpetuates the practice.