Take a second look, Britain's May urges lawmakers before Brexit vote

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-meaningful-vote-brexit

 

This gives details of all the amendments currently tabled. Just popping out for another litre of Monkey Shoulder as its going to be a long and interesting night!

 

Very interesting night indeed. I could do with some Famous Grouse!

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

He's a Reece-Mogg crony.

 

Just to put him into perspective.

Whatever he is he called exactly what was going to happen yesterday. He came across as more informative and sincere than the PM 

[johnnybangkok]

48 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Not any that you like it seems, but the speed of your reply indicates that you didn't bother watching the clip therefore I wasted my time anyway.

 

Here's a slow burner for the more articulate:

 

The speed of my reply is because you've posted this nonsense on at least 3 other occasions and I'm bored with looking at it.

And 25 minutes of Jacob Rees-Mogg (a man with a HEAVY financial incentive for Brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/22/jacob-rees-mogg-second-irish-fund-scm) will have me contemplating topping myself.

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

The rubbish is the claim that there might be anything other than the orderly departure secured in a referendum by 17.4M voters that will shortly be delivered.

 

Here's the latest from Ferage for the casual observer:

 

 

Cretin. Even Trump saw through him and dropped him quick.

 

So would he have accepted if the narrow margin had been to Remain? Would he have carried on accepting his MEP salary while hardly bothering to attend? A proven liar who disappeared when he got the result he never dreamed possible because he knew his lies would be quickly found out.

 

Why would anyone believe him - apart he says what the want to hear.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

The speed of my reply is because you've posted this nonsense on at least 3 other occasions and I'm bored with looking at it.

And 25 minutes of Jacob Rees-Mogg (a man with a HEAVY financial incentive for Brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/22/jacob-rees-mogg-second-irish-fund-scm) will have me contemplating topping myself.

 

Lol, Now you're calling me out for a practice exercised by you! ????

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Whatever he is he called exactly what was going to happen yesterday. He came across as more informative and sincere than the PM 

 

Just about anybody comes across as more sincere and informative than May.

 

But this Reece-Mogg crony isn't exactly unbiased. And I'm sure their friendly moles in the Cabinet keep them informed about what's going on and when it will happen.

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Cretin

Yep, Mind you Ferage is a bit of a knob too ????

[johnnybangkok]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Lol, Now you're calling me out for a practice exercised by you! ????

I'm not. I said I watched your video before (and it still doesn't answer my questions) and there's just no way I'm going to listen to 25 minutes of JRM. 

Rather than post just heavily biased videos of highly questionable individuals, why don't you just answer the questions I posed all by yourself? As a reminder, I asked what was YOUR solution to the following problems:

 

1. The Northern Ireland border.

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

3. The EU single market & customs union and the subsequent insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

5. The drop in the number of EU immigrants and it's effect (already being felt) on the NHS, social care and construction?  

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law to work?  

 

[Grouse]

Well, we now find ourselves in hell of a pickle!

 

We all know this started as an attempt to silence Tory Eurosceptics and to put a lid on UKIP, but now it has got completely out of hand with no sensible, equitable way forward.

 

The whole matter has been handled ineptly by the CON government to such an extent that they are not really fit to govern IMO. However, the thought of Corbyn and his dreadful front bench is appalling!

 

What to do?

 

Well one thing is to put the whole thing into a holding pattern while sensible ways forward are worked out. There is no reason for this self imposed deadline. So lets revoke A50 for a year.

 

I would like to see a general election but I would prefer a coalition government. I would like to see many more independent technocrats as MPs.

 

For me, staying in the CU and SM are obviously essential. We are better negotiating new trade deals from within the big block.

 

However, I DO want to reduce immigration because of overcrowding. I would however offer EU preference if that would enable staying in the SM

 

We need time for open sensible discussion......

 

I am not actually in favour of another referendum per se; the government should take a decision and have it ratified by the electorate.

 

Incidentally I would like to see Ireland reunified and that should be offered by referendum with a super majority.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Grouse

[persimmon]

If you get on a bus to take you somewhere and the bus goes in a different direction,better to get off as soon as possible.

 

Voters in the UK did exactly the right thing in deciding to leave the EU.

 

Given good will on all sides,a suitable deal could have been reached quickly,but there was no good will on the part of the EU who stated that their prime objective was to ensure the UK did not get a good deal.

 

Unfortunately the rise of the hard ( loony left ) Labour party has meant that the best solution now ( ie. a no-deal Brexit ) is off the cards because it might allow Corbyn into power which might do more damage to the UK economy than Brexit.

 

So,to summarise - Brexit,great in theory but sabotaged by the politicians.

[BobBKK]

41 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Very interesting night indeed. I could do with some Famous Grouse!

Surely you can afford a better bottle than grouse?  anyway hope she loses the vote today.

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, persimmon said:

If you get on a bus to take you somewhere and the bus goes in a different direction,better to get off as soon as possible.

 

Voters in the UK did exactly the right thing in deciding to leave the EU.

 

Given good will on all sides,a suitable deal could have been reached quickly,but there was no good will on the part of the EU who stated that their prime objective was to ensure the UK did not get a good deal.

 

Unfortunately the rise of the hard ( loony left ) Labour party has meant that the best solution now ( ie. a no-deal Brexit ) is off the cards because it might allow Corbyn into power which might do more damage to the UK economy than Brexit.

 

So,to summarise - Brexit,great in theory but sabotaged by the politicians.

You see no benefit it either the SM or CU? Kindly explain.

 

To continue your bus analogy; we own the bus. We should immediately stop the bus and question the driver. If necessary, fire the driver and appoint a new one. Then decide where to go and ask the passengers if they agree. Ding, ding!

Edited January 15, 2019 by Grouse

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-meaningful-vote-brexit

 

This gives details of all the amendments currently tabled. Just popping out for another litre of Monkey Shoulder as its going to be a long and interesting night!

I stayed up very late to see (and comment) on the upcoming referendum result - but don't have the stamina nowadays ????!

 

I look forward to arguing about the latest MP vote tomorrow ????.

Edited January 15, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You see no benefit it either the SM or CU? Kindly explain.

 

To continue your bus analogy; we own the bus. We should immediately stop the bus and question the driver. If necessary, fire the driver and appoint a new one. Then decide where to go and ask the passengers if they agree. Ding, ding!

You know very well (along with everyone else) that the SM and CU have stipulated rules, that are not liked by a majority of the electorate.  Hence the leave referendum result, even though Cameron made it v. clear that leaving the eu would also result in leaving the SM and CU.

[Tchooptip]

5 hours ago, jesimps said:

No such thing as "Hard Brexiteers", just people who want the government to deliver what they voted for and won. You people just want to muddy the waters to sabotage Brexit, the choice was "Remain" or "Leave", and leave won. Now where's the "rubbish" in that?

The rubbish is many voters had no idea at all what the Brexit was, simply because they were not told, except populist arguments like all the billions we give to Europe will go to our health system and our hospitals. 

To say that most people have voted knowingly is totally ridiculous. And that's what it gives when "they"

make people vote with their guts and not with their heads

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

The rubbish is many voters had no idea at all what the Brexit was, simply because they were not told, except populist arguments like all the billions we give to Europe will go to our health system and our hospitals. 

To say that most people have voted knowingly is totally ridiculous. And that's what it gives when "they"

make people vote with their guts and not with their heads

Well that is the standard rhetoric from ignorant people. Everyone knew what they voted for. I like all I know who voted for Brexit, knew what it was. The simple fact yet again the politicians are not acting on it. If you read the threads here on the topic for the last 3 years, you will know that it has 'been done to death'.

 

I choose not to say those who voted remain didn't know what they were doing, they did. I strongly disagree with them No insults, no shaming or calling them uneducated, racists, bigots. Politically they see it differently.

[Tchooptip]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well that is the standard rhetoric from ignorant people. Everyone knew what they voted for. I like all I know who voted for Brexit, knew what it was. The simple fact yet again the politicians are not acting on it. If you read the threads here on the topic for the last 3 years, you will know that it has 'been done to death'.

 

I choose not to say those who voted remain didn't know what they were doing, they did. I strongly disagree with them No insults, no shaming or calling them uneducated, racists, bigots. Politically they see it differently.

 I stay in my position but I respect yours because it shows great correction.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

As a reminder, I asked what was YOUR solution to the following problems:

 

1. The Northern Ireland border.

2. Britain's financial obligations to the EU?

3. The EU single market & customs union and the subsequent insistence from the EU that entry to the single market/customs union also comes with free movement of EU nationals?

5. The drop in the number of EU immigrants and it's effect (already being felt) on the NHS, social care and construction?  

6. Security - once EU law has no more effect on the UK, how do you handle things like Europol and the European Arrest Warrants that both require EU law to work?  

1. Reunification would be my preferred option but I cannot see it in my lifetime; at least not on terms agreed by both sides.

2. Gallilao and our share in various other projects & buildings wipe this slate clean.

3. Cameron promised (and we voted) OUT.

5(4!). Any drop renders the likes of the NHS better able to serve everyone else. If you're referring to Doctors etc I see no reason why anything should change.

6. They're under a different umbrella (& Ours are by far the best in Europe!)

 

We (Great Britain and Ireland) would arguably be better off applying to join the US as one or two states than we ever will be by staying in the EU and in doing so would solve Irish unification and neuter the SNP in a single stroke.

 

I might give ol' moggy a ring! ????

Edited January 15, 2019 by evadgib

[johnnybangkok]

47 minutes ago, evadgib said:

1. Reunification would be my preferred option but I cannot see it in my lifetime; at least not on terms agreed by both sides.

2. Gallilao and our share in various other projects & buildings wipe this slate clean.

3. Cameron promised (and we voted) OUT.

5(4!). Any drop renders the likes of the NHS better able to serve everyone else. If you're referring to Doctors etc I see no reason why anything should change.

6. They're under a different umbrella (& Ours are by far the best in Europe!)

 

We (UK & Ireland) would arguably be better off applying to join the US as one or two states than we ever will be by staying in the EU and in doing so would solve Irish unification and neuter the SNP in a single stroke.

 

I might give ol' moggy a ring! ????

1. Reunification would be my preferred option but I cannot see it in my lifetime; at least not on terms agreed by both sides.

- So no solution then as that DEFINITELY isn't going to work. Just ask the DUP and the whole of the protestant population of NI.

2. Gallilao and our share in various other projects & buildings wipe this slate clean.

- Galileo (which i assume you mean) costs 13.7 Billion. That just leaves approx. 24 billion in the divorce settlement and the cost of EU pension contributions, security, science and the many, many other EU projects the UK is committed to.  

3. Cameron promised (and we voted) OUT.

Not really an answer but the gist is you just want us to leave our biggest trading partner with no deal and no customs agreements? That sounds like it'll work well for the UK economy. 

5(4!). Any drop renders the likes of the NHS better able to serve everyone else. If you're referring to Doctors etc I see no reason why anything should change.

63,000 NHS staff in England are EU nationals - Just 800 EU nurses came to the UK last year, compared to 6,382 in 2016/17 and 9,389 in the year of the Brexit vote. Nearly 4,000 EU nurses alone left last year. That's what changing even if you don't want to acknowledge it. 

6. They're under a different umbrella (& Ours are by far the best in Europe!)

No they're not. It is through the EU that you exchange criminal records and passenger records and work together on counter-terrorism. This could be a major problem if we have any contradictory laws that don't match. 

 

We (UK & Ireland) would arguably be better off applying to join the US as one or two states than we ever will be by staying in the EU and in doing so would solve Irish unification and neuter the SNP in a single stroke.

Wow, just wow!! You don't want us anywhere near the EU but you would gladly see us hitched to Trump as a vassal of the US? Incredible, just simply incredible.  

 

So in summary you have no real concrete, workable ideas? It's just 'lets leave and work out the problems after'.

That's why sane people don't want Brexit. You don't have a better alternative.

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by johnnybangkok

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

1. Reunification would be my preferred option but I cannot see it in my lifetime; at least not on terms agreed by both sides.

- So no solution then as that DEFINITELY isn't going to work. Just ask the DUP and the whole of the protestant population of NI.

2. Gallilao and our share in various other projects & buildings wipe this slate clean.

- Galileo (which i assume you mean) costs 13.7 Billion. That just leaves approx. 24 billion in the divorce settlement and the cost of EU pension contributions, security, science and the many, many other EU projects the UK is committed to.  

3. Cameron promised (and we voted) OUT.

Not really an answer but the gist is you just want us to leave our biggest trading partner with no deal and no customs agreements? That sounds like it'll work well for the UK economy. 

5(4!). Any drop renders the likes of the NHS better able to serve everyone else. If you're referring to Doctors etc I see no reason why anything should change.

63,000 NHS staff in England are EU nationals - Just 800 EU nurses came to the UK last year, compared to 6,382 in 2016/17 and 9,389 in the year of the Brexit vote. Nearly 4,000 EU nurses alone left last year. That's what changing even if you don't want to acknowledge it. 

6. They're under a different umbrella (& Ours are by far the best in Europe!)

No they're not. It is through the EU that you exchange criminal records and passenger records and work together on counter-terrorism. This could be a major problem if we have any contradictory laws that don't match. 

 

We (UK & Ireland) would arguably be better off applying to join the US as one or two states than we ever will be by staying in the EU and in doing so would solve Irish unification and neuter the SNP in a single stroke.

Wow, just wow!! You don't want us anywhere near the EU but you would gladly see us hitched to Trump as a vassal of the US? Incredible, just simply incredible.  

 

So in summary you have no real concrete, workable ideas? It's just 'lets leave and work out the problems after'.

That's why sane people don't want Brexit. You don't have a better alternative.

 

You were always going to piss on any answer that didn't contain a U turn & express deep remorse for being wrong tho weren't you?????

 

Dream on pal.

 

BTW: What are your other SN's or do you seriously believe no one has any inkling as to how that actually works?

Edited January 15, 2019 by evadgib

[dunroaming]

Not long now although it is going to be a long day today.  The media coverage is just more of the same with rampant speculation from all sides.  Bit like Thai Visa really  ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well that is the standard rhetoric from ignorant people. Everyone knew what they voted for. I like all I know who voted for Brexit, knew what it was.

So you’re speaking for how many million people now? But you’re wrong. It cannot be “Everyone” because I know at least two who voted leave but never wanted a hard Brexit and deeply regret having voted leave now as a hard Brexit is on the table. 

 

If Brexiteers would at least once stick to the truth, you would acknowledge that people were told all sorts of false promises by the leave campaign, but never that the UK would leave without a deal or with a bad deal. Quite contrary, that was explicitly excluded as “fear mongering” and making everyone believe the UK would get “the easiest deal in history”. 

 

It is disgraceful that Brexiteers now betray people by claiming all that never happened and instead claim people voted for something that was never presented them as a likely outcome. You are acting like someone making a friend quit his good job after telling him for years how bad his boss was and how much better he could do, and when that person eventually quite and gets a shit job (or none at all), telling him “all you wanted was to quit. And by the way, blame your boss and the economy; would they just offer you a good deal and be a bit more flexible, you would totally get a great job”. 

 

Quote

The simple fact yet again the politicians are not acting on it. If you read the threads here on the topic for the last 3 years, you will know that it has 'been done to death'.

The simple truth is that castles in the sky finally meet reality. Everyone told you one day you would wake up and have to face that reality is different than the nonsense your leaders told you. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

You know very well (along with everyone else) that the SM and CU have stipulated rules, that are not liked by a majority of the electorate.  Hence the leave referendum result, even though Cameron made it v. clear that leaving the eu would also result in leaving the SM and CU.

So why do you not want SM and/or CU? I think we could have our cake and eat it. So tell us your personal view!

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well, we now find ourselves in hell of a pickle!

 

We all know this started as an attempt to silence Tory Eurosceptics and to put a lid on UKIP, but now it has got completely out of hand with no sensible, equitable way forward.

 

The whole matter has been handled ineptly by the CON government to such an extent that they are not really fit to govern IMO. However, the thought of Corbyn and his dreadful front bench is appalling!

 

What to do?

 

Well one thing is to put the whole thing into a holding pattern while sensible ways forward are worked out. There is no reason for this self imposed deadline. So lets revoke A50 for a year.

 

I would like to see a general election but I would prefer a coalition government. I would like to see many more independent technocrats as MPs.

 

For me, staying in the CU and SM are obviously essential. We are better negotiating new trade deals from within the big block.

 

However, I DO want to reduce immigration because of overcrowding. I would however offer EU preference if that would enable staying in the SM

 

We need time for open sensible discussion......

 

I am not actually in favour of another referendum per se; the government should take a decision and have it ratified by the electorate.

 

Incidentally I would like to see Ireland reunified and that should be offered by referendum with a super majority.

Thank you for your wish list. Filed with the others.

Edited January 15, 2019 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Surely you can afford a better bottle than grouse?  anyway hope she loses the vote today.

Its how much she loses by that the markets are focussed on.

[dunroaming]

As we come to crunch time for May's vote maybe we can reflect on why there is so much anger.  The people voted for Brexit and although I didn't, I respect those who voted leave in good faith.  The leavers voted based on what the leave campaign told them just like we remainers voted based on what the remain campaigners told us.  Both sides were lied to, the economy didn't go into freefall and although they were right about the pound weakening it didn't exactly crash.  And for the leave side, it wasn't the easiest deal ever as Fox said and it turned out they didn't need us more than we needed them.  There isn't a shed load of money for the NHS and we have an enormous divorce bill to pay.  No wonder both sides are angry.

 

So we have been betrayed but just what did the betrayal start with.  Was it Brexit campaigners making promises they knew they could not deliver or was it May for then promising to deliver them and setting red lines that were never achievable?  Was it Cameron for giving the people the referendum in the first place to try to save his own skin or was it Johnson running away when he realised what he had done.  Or was it the remain side for arrogantly thinking that people would never vote to leave.

 

Whatever the answer we are now at the point where MPs have to decide what to do next.  Many Brexiteers on this website feel that May's deal should be rejected  and I do too.  But it is a form of Brexit and quite frankly the best you are likely to get from this government.  So in theory if you want Brexit then you should back May's deal.  It should be remainers who don't want it.  But May's deal doesn't in any way resemble what Brexiteers voted for.  Nor does a Norway plus or Canada type deal.  There is nothing on the table that remotely delivers what Brexiteers voted for.  Some would still prefer a no deal solution but that isn't really on the table either.  We are not that suicidal!  So one way or another we all lose.  Another peoples vote is being pushed but that just divides us all the more.

 

I say again, no wonder people are angry.

[bomber]

52 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Role model for grumpy old git laying down the law after 3 pints in Soi Buakaow.

after brexit he will only be able to afford 2 pints,after corbyn it will be down to 1,then he will join the flying club.

[Walter Travolta]

Leave or Remain were the 2 options on the ballot paper 30 months ago. 

 

Anyone who did not know what they were voting for out of those 2 choices need to have their right to vote taken away.

 

As the referendum ended in the majority voting to LEAVE, that is all the PM needs to know and basically should have got on with leaving the day after the referendum - end of.

 

Cameron made a speech. It said the government or the media will not be allowed to sway or challenge the vote, there will be no 2nd votes etc, the will of the people will be actioned. This is what we were told by the then PM. 

So to all you mixed up melts who still have no idea on what democracy is, tell me what is the biggest lie or deceitful speech from the following . . . 

1) A big sign on a bus that never actually stated £350m would go to the NHS or

2) What the ex PM said
(I wont bother being picky and list all the lies from the media and politicians that lean to Leave that only cause scaremongering for the sheeple but I see the sky is still in the same position it has always been?)

The lies since have all come from Number 10. She has changed her mind more times than a Walking St bar girl!!!

The world is the vagina
The UK is the penis

The EU is the condom

 

[dunroaming]

21 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

The world is the vagina

The UK is the penis

The EU is the condom

 

I like that!  Don't agree with the sentiment but...….

 

Not sure who you are blaming though for the mess we are in today?   Cameron or May? 

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

A big sign on a bus that never actually stated £350m would go to the NHS

 

Might not have said it, but it certainly implied that the money would go to the NHS!

 

Plus, of course, the £350 itself was a lie.

 

Not forgetting the Leave campaign's lie about 70 million Turks heading our way if we didn't leave!

 

26 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

What the ex PM said

Cameron had no constitutional right to make such a promise; only Parliament can do so because Parliament is sovereign.

 

Whatever terms we leave the EU on, May's deal, another deal, no deal; or even if Article 50 is withdrawn, whether after another referendum or not, is a matter for Parliament to decide.