Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

That isn't disputed but are there anywhere near as many '3rd parties' posting in those threads as there are in these? Are any bombarding every thread on the same scale seen here? That was my point and there was nothing other than curiosity in the question.

I would say, a similar amount but I will admit that they are even less welcome on Trump threads than Brexit threads. I think that you are over egging the amount of non Brits posting on Brexit threads.

 

I think less remainers post because Brexiteers hate the EU with a passion. I, a remainer, would idealistically prefer to leave the EU or not joined in the first place. The referendum to join the EU was the first time that I was eligible to vote. I voted against joining.

 

However, I recognise that now is not the right time to leave the EU, for many reasons. I'm not "Project Fear" but realistically recognise that it will do serious damage to the economy, force many small businesses to close and put even more people into unemployment. Also, the notion that it will stem the tide of immigration is hogwash. Most immigrants, particularly the lawless, the workshy and social security spongers, come from outside the EU. Leaving the EU will do nothing to stem that tide.

 

Most immigrants from within the EU that want to come to Britain, have already done so or will do before the borders close. Those waters are already close to high tide.

 

Hence I have no compelling reason to leave the EU. Regain sovereignty? The days of Empire are gone, we are no longer an island, only a nationalistic isolationist would yearn for days of yore.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

Why should the NHS be denied overseas workers, and specifically citizens of the E.U.

No one as far as I’m aware, have suggested they will be barred from obtaining legal employment. What will occurr when we leave the E.u. is that the British government will decide WHO is allowed in. It’s called taking control of our own boarders.

At the moment, many low paid jobs in the NHS, porters, cleaners etc., are undertaken by EEA migrants.

 

Visas to do these jobs are not available to non EEA nationals as they do not pay the minimum of £30,000 per year required to obtain a General work visa (Tier 2) (N.B. A lower minimum applies to nurses, paramedics and other professionals)

 

Unless the UK agrees to continue to be bound by the four freedoms, unlikely, then EEA nationals will need the same visa to come to the UK and work.

 

If you know of a hospital which pays at least £30,000 p.a. to it's porters and cleaners, tell me! I'll apply straight away.

[NanLaew]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:31 PM, TopDeadSenter said:

May needs to step down immediately and let a proper leave PM come in and clean up this mess she made. Rees-Mogg, Farage, Robinson, Batten? Somebody that actually believes in Brexit, believes in our country, and has the stones to get on with it. This should have been a very simple process, no excuses for having made a complete dogs dinner of it.

Let me review your choices.

 

Rees-Mogg: A Tory back bencher who's well intentioned ERG suddenly seems to have quietly gone on autopilot since he has subsequently TWICE publicly stated his allegiance to the beleaguered PM as well as voting for her... plus the common man thinks he's just another hyphenated, silver-spooned, ex-Eton fop who is undeniably blessed with some degree of eloquence. Pass.

 

Farage: Seriously? The man who has made an mpg file out of (then) candidate Trump's stage introduction of him on the US election hustings and proudly plays that as his musical opening on his daily radio pontifications? Hardly.

 

Robinson: If you mean the felon formerly known as Yaxley-Lennon, then what's that you're sniffing?

 

Batten: Nope... Unless you mean the tortuously right-wing UKIP MEP and majordomo who glad-hands with the likes of Geert Wilders and considers "Islamic fundamentalism is the cuckoo in the western multicultural nest" then no, I admit you've completely got me on that one.

 

Never mind. You're not alone. Nearly everyone secretly has a hankering after fascism. You need principles and integrity to resist the allure. That's the trouble, when you engineer fear of the other, everyone imagines they are superior, deserving and not the other. It offers succor to the mediocre, the boor, the terminally misanthropic.

 

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Let me review your choices.

 

Rees-Mogg: A Tory back bencher who's well intentioned ERG suddenly seems to have quietly gone on autopilot since he has subsequently TWICE publicly stated his allegiance to the beleaguered PM as well as voting for her... plus the common man thinks he's just another hyphenated, silver-spooned, ex-Eton fop who is undeniably blessed with some degree of eloquence. Pass.

 

Farage: Seriously? The man who has made an mpg file out of (then) candidate Trump's stage introduction of him on the US election hustings and proudly plays that as his musical opening on his daily radio pontifications? Hardly.

 

Robinson: If you mean the felon formerly known as Yaxley-Lennon, then what's that you're sniffing?

 

Batten: Nope... Unless you mean the tortuously right-wing UKIP MEP and majordomo who glad-hands with the likes of Geert Wilders and considers "Islamic fundamentalism is the cuckoo in the western multicultural nest" then no, I admit you've completely got me on that one.

 

Never mind. You're not alone. Nearly everyone secretly has a hankering after fascism. You need principles and integrity to resist the allure. That's the trouble, when you engineer fear of the other, everyone imagines they are superior, deserving and not the other. It offers succor to the mediocre, the boor, the terminally misanthropic.

 

Looks like we'll just have to put up with Boris then? New haircut so he's all set! ????

[NanLaew]

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Looks like we'll just have to put up with Boris then? New haircut so he's all set! ????

Now you're just being silly.

 

There was a suggestion that he could upset the apple cart and become a card-carrying member of the Labour party, such is his self-immolated career path with the Tories.

 

Sounds like another, vain 'Look at me!' moment by the jocular, popular, smooth talking but less eloquent than Rees-Mogg, understudy-in-waiting.

 

I'm convinced that like someone with presidential aspirations, he's just hanging out for some significant wedge before he commits to being a serious leadership challenger and nobody has the ready's. Except maybe Rees-Mogg but, at the last count, he's got 6 kids to keep fed and watered.

[7by7]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Looks like we'll just have to put up with Boris then? New haircut so he's all set! ????

 Boris, who bottled standing last time because he knew Brexit would be a huge pile of manure which he knew the PM would be blamed for.

 

I said at the time that Boris withdrew for just that reason; let someone else deal with the impossible situation which would end up pleasing no one, then he can come riding to the rescue of if not the country then at least the party!

 

Gove and the other Brexiteer candidates who withdrew are not much better.

 

[nauseus]

50 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Now you're just being silly.

 

There was a suggestion that he could upset the apple cart and become a card-carrying member of the Labour party, such is his self-immolated career path with the Tories.

 

Sounds like another, vain 'Look at me!' moment by the jocular, popular, smooth talking but less eloquent than Rees-Mogg, understudy-in-waiting.

 

I'm convinced that like someone with presidential aspirations, he's just hanging out for some significant wedge before he commits to being a serious leadership challenger and nobody has the ready's. Except maybe Rees-Mogg but, at the last count, he's got 6 kids to keep fed and watered.

Labour Party? Who's really being silly?

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

When the move to have the UK adopt the Euro was being mooted, British economists and the City were overwhelmingly in favor. On the other hand, American economists from left to right were genuinely puzzled by how a monetary union without fiscal union could possibly work. Good thing those patriotic British economists prevailed. Oh wait...

 

  And there’s me,thinking that everyone was of the opinion, that the U.K was very clever/lucky, in not adopting the Euro. Including a number of European friends, especially the Germans.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

  And there’s me,thinking that everyone was of the opinion, that the U.K was very clever/lucky, in not adopting the Euro. Including a number of European friends, especially the Germans.

 

The Euro has been great for Germany, an exporting country. By joining with other European countries in a currency union they have maintained a lower level for their currency than they would have had under the deutsche mark, making their exports more attractive to overseas customers. It works fine for them. Not so good for Italy and Greece, as their currency is higher than the lira and drachma would be, so they are hampered by it to an extent.

[Spidey]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

If you know of a hospital which pays at least £30,000 p.a. to it's porters and cleaners, tell me! I'll apply straight away.

Hospitals don't pay porters and cleaners. That work was contracted out to private companies, many years ago.

[Laughing Gravy]

This just about sums up many remainers on here and their bigotory views.

For those that don't subscribe to the Times. I wonder how many will dismiss this YouGov poll due to the numbers but will claim the same pollster, that are supporting a second referendum.????

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-remainers-more-bothered-by-differing-views-in-family-poll-shows-h6kh2vrp7

Brexit: Remainers ‘more bothered’ by differing views in family, poll shows

Only 8 per cent said that most of their work colleagues voted a different way to themDAN KITWOOD/GETTY IMAGES

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More than a third of Remainers would be upset if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter and almost two thirds say that all or most of their friends share their stance on Brexit.

Leavers, however, are comparatively more likely to say that they have Remain-supporting friends and are also significantly less likely to be concerned at the prospect of welcoming an EU supporter into their family.

Polling by YouGov for The Times reveals how little the country’s two Brexit tribes interact. For example, only 8 per cent of people say that a majority of their work colleagues voted a different way,

When it comes to welcoming those with opposing Brexit stances into the family, it is Remainers who are markedly more resistant.

Asked if they would be troubled if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter, 37 per cent said that they would mind, 11 per cent by a lot and 26 per cent by a little. The equivalent finding for Leavers is 9 per cent, and only 2 per cent said that they would mind a lot.

While a narrow majority of Leavers, 51 per cent, say that all or most of their friends voted the same way, some 62 per cent of Remainers say that all or most of their friends share their view.

The findings are likely to deliver a blow to some Remainers’ self-image as more outward-looking and tolerant than those who took the opposite course, while challenging caricatures of Leavers as the more insular tribe.

The poll also found that younger voters were more likely to care about the Brexit stance of a future member of their extended family than older respondents. Only 53 per cent of those aged between 18 and 24 would not mind at all if a close relative intended to marry a Leaver.

YouGov polled a total of 1,701 adults between January 13 and 14.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This just about sums up many remainers on here and their bigotory views.

For those that don't subscribe to the Times. I wonder how many will dismiss this YouGov poll due to the numbers but will claim the same pollster, that are supporting a second referendum.????

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-remainers-more-bothered-by-differing-views-in-family-poll-shows-h6kh2vrp7

Brexit: Remainers ‘more bothered’ by differing views in family, poll shows

Only 8 per cent said that most of their work colleagues voted a different way to themDAN KITWOOD/GETTY IMAGES

Share

Save

 

More than a third of Remainers would be upset if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter and almost two thirds say that all or most of their friends share their stance on Brexit.

Leavers, however, are comparatively more likely to say that they have Remain-supporting friends and are also significantly less likely to be concerned at the prospect of welcoming an EU supporter into their family.

Polling by YouGov for The Times reveals how little the country’s two Brexit tribes interact. For example, only 8 per cent of people say that a majority of their work colleagues voted a different way,

When it comes to welcoming those with opposing Brexit stances into the family, it is Remainers who are markedly more resistant.

Asked if they would be troubled if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter, 37 per cent said that they would mind, 11 per cent by a lot and 26 per cent by a little. The equivalent finding for Leavers is 9 per cent, and only 2 per cent said that they would mind a lot.

While a narrow majority of Leavers, 51 per cent, say that all or most of their friends voted the same way, some 62 per cent of Remainers say that all or most of their friends share their view.

The findings are likely to deliver a blow to some Remainers’ self-image as more outward-looking and tolerant than those who took the opposite course, while challenging caricatures of Leavers as the more insular tribe.

The poll also found that younger voters were more likely to care about the Brexit stance of a future member of their extended family than older respondents. Only 53 per cent of those aged between 18 and 24 would not mind at all if a close relative intended to marry a Leaver.

YouGov polled a total of 1,701 adults between January 13 and 14.

 

Let’s see how those numbers change after Brexit is defeated.

 

As you fear it will be.

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This just about sums up many remainers on here and their bigotory views.

For those that don't subscribe to the Times. I wonder how many will dismiss this YouGov poll due to the numbers but will claim the same pollster, that are supporting a second referendum.????

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-remainers-more-bothered-by-differing-views-in-family-poll-shows-h6kh2vrp7

Brexit: Remainers ‘more bothered’ by differing views in family, poll shows

Only 8 per cent said that most of their work colleagues voted a different way to themDAN KITWOOD/GETTY IMAGES

Share

Save

 

More than a third of Remainers would be upset if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter and almost two thirds say that all or most of their friends share their stance on Brexit.

Leavers, however, are comparatively more likely to say that they have Remain-supporting friends and are also significantly less likely to be concerned at the prospect of welcoming an EU supporter into their family.

Polling by YouGov for The Times reveals how little the country’s two Brexit tribes interact. For example, only 8 per cent of people say that a majority of their work colleagues voted a different way,

When it comes to welcoming those with opposing Brexit stances into the family, it is Remainers who are markedly more resistant.

Asked if they would be troubled if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter, 37 per cent said that they would mind, 11 per cent by a lot and 26 per cent by a little. The equivalent finding for Leavers is 9 per cent, and only 2 per cent said that they would mind a lot.

While a narrow majority of Leavers, 51 per cent, say that all or most of their friends voted the same way, some 62 per cent of Remainers say that all or most of their friends share their view.

The findings are likely to deliver a blow to some Remainers’ self-image as more outward-looking and tolerant than those who took the opposite course, while challenging caricatures of Leavers as the more insular tribe.

The poll also found that younger voters were more likely to care about the Brexit stance of a future member of their extended family than older respondents. Only 53 per cent of those aged between 18 and 24 would not mind at all if a close relative intended to marry a Leaver.

YouGov polled a total of 1,701 adults between January 13 and 14.

 

Please post a link not the entire bloody article!

[Laughing Gravy]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s see how those numbers change after Brexit is defeated.

 

As you fear it will be.

Your crystal ball is not working properly. I don't fear it. I do know however the establishment are doing everything they can to thwart Brexit. they will lie, cheat and do everything they can to try and change the peoples will. This is their big mistake. Underestimating people. they can put all the polls out, pictures of remainers in the streets and keep the constant BBC and Sky news articles on TV. The reality is the people are not fooled. Well most anyway as it would seem some TV posters (remainers) are.????

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Please post a link not the entire bloody article!

Actually as it is a PPV site, so often many people/posters ask for the full facts. I am a nice guy like that ????. Are you just being argumentative, crusty or sarcastic of the facts in here?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually as it is a PPV site, so often many people/posters ask for the full facts. I am a nice guy like that ????. Are you just being argumentative, crusty or sarcastic of the facts in here?

Crusty

[brucec64]

I am confused why anyone would think this. Everyone talks about a No Deal Brexit like its a disaster. It isn't. There is no requirement for the UK Government to apply import tariffs or entry restrictions on the EU or any EU Citizen.
 
We don't have to do any tit for tat restrictions the EU imposes. I am sure that level heads will prevail and the only EU paymaster left in the ring Germany would be okay with that. 
 
The UK doesn't need to deal with the whole EU, It only needs to do a deal with Germany. That's it. The rest don't matter.  

Seems like a general lack of understanding fuels the Brexiteers.

Under WTO, if the UK offers no tariffs to a country, it must offer no tariffs across the board, to all countries.

This would completely decimate parts of the protected farming industry, and countless other industries. That is why there are trade deals.

The trade deal between Canada and the EU took 7 years to complete. By then, a lot of industries will have disappeared.

Do you also still believe the NHS will be getting 350m a week?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

Troll post removed. 

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

More than a third of Remainers would be upset if a close relative married a strong Leave supporter and almost two thirds say that all or most of their friends share their stance on Brexit.

Leavers, however, are comparatively more likely to say that they have Remain-supporting friends and are also significantly less likely to be concerned at the prospect of welcoming an EU supporter into their family.

Polling by YouGov for The Times reveals how little the country’s two Brexit tribes interact. For example, only 8 per cent of people say that a majority of their work colleagues voted a different way,

I know you're only paraphrasing the Times report but will YouGov run a poll to confirm that ~97% of the average population of ANY country, when in a group of their fellow peers, will not indicate by voice or action, an alternative view to the prevailing consensus?

 

Brexit tribes? Yet another play on the odious assertion from the young, educated and entitled Remainers were let down by the old, ignorant and bigoted Brexiteers way back in the summer of 2016.

 

Get outta here.

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

The Euro has been great for Germany, an exporting country. By joining with other European countries in a currency union they have maintained a lower level for their currency than they would have had under the deutsche mark, making their exports more attractive to overseas customers. It works fine for them. Not so good for Italy and Greece, as their currency is higher than the lira and drachma would be, so they are hampered by it to an extent.

To an extent. ???? 

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

I know you're only paraphrasing the Times report but will YouGov run a poll to confirm that ~97% of the average population of ANY country, when in a group of their fellow peers, will not indicate by voice or action, an alternative view to the prevailing consensus?

 

Brexit tribes? Yet another play on the odious assertion from the young, educated and entitled Remainers were let down by the old, ignorant and bigoted Brexiteers way back in the summer of 2016.

 

Get outta here.

Remainers always seem to like to get in first with the condescending insults. Were they taught to do this? 

[Loiner]

12 hours ago, evadgib said:

 

Re Vociferous Brexiteers; I only came out of the closet in November in order to stem the flow of daily nonsense being spouted from the other side. Prior to doing so I was completely neutral & barely visible despite being a member of this website since 2005. 

The amount of continued Remain nonsense comes as no surprise after the run up to the referendum and the scweeming & scweeming afterwards. They still believe they are right and know better, mainly because they keep telling themselves so. Remain propaganda from all corners of MSM, social media and that old stalwart of Europhilia the BBC, all reinforce their feel-superior factor.

TV forum is typical of those media, whether regarding Trump or Brexit. A few, but vociferous posters with nothing else better to do all day, band together with their own conforming version of events. Before you know it, they have convinced each other that they now have the majority consensus of world view in their favoured subject. They allow no other opinion and opposition must be quashed at all costs. 

Brexiteers as a whole have not been particularly vociferous, and I wouldn't normally bother with posting on TV either. Remain posters here are getting a little to much up themselves and need a few reminders that:

1) You lost

2) You are not the only ones that matter.                                                                                                                                                

[Loiner]

12 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Yes, vociferous Brexiters share a lot of DNA with Trump base supporters. Really they are very similar demographics, and will be remembered in history in the same vein. A very vocal, uneducated, uninformed subset of the great white hope. 

But there's more of us than you. That's what matters at elections.

Vocal? The Trump supporters and Brexiteers - what compared to the Anti-Trump & Anti-Leave?? You're 'avin a larf incha? Did you see all those silly girls and the wimps crying about both examples of democracy at work?

[Loiner]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Let me review your choices.

 

Rees-Mogg:

Farage:

Robinson:

Batten: 

 

YES, to any and all of those please.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

But there's more of us than you. That's what matters at elections.

Vocal? The Trump supporters and Brexiteers - what compared to the Anti-Trump & Anti-Leave?? You're 'avin a larf incha? Did you see all those silly girls and the wimps crying about both examples of democracy at work?

There's more of you on a Thai expat's forum. Not reflected in the UK population. Recent polls suggest that remainers are in the majority.

[Loiner]

59 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Remainers always seem to like to get in first with the condescending insults. Were they taught to do this? 

They think it will keep us quiet, but they still haven't learned. Calling names is not something that bothers most adults, although it seems to be the default setting for most of them. 

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

There's more of you on a Thai expat's forum. Not reflected in the UK population. Recent polls suggest that remainers are in the majority.

No - its not in the UK population.

You are taking your opinion from the sycophants around you. Wishful Remain thinking.

[rixalex]

So non-US people have no right to comment on US politics and Trump? Climate change denial, for example, has implications for everyone.
 
Who are are these non British anyway? If they are European then they will be affected by Brexit also, albeit to a lesser extent, so have some skin in the game.
 
Anyone with a view on the topic is entitled to post. 

I have no idea why you are bringing into question anyone's right to express an opinion.

Somebody raised the question why non British people might have such strong feelings on Brexit. That was all.



Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

No - its not in the UK population.

You are taking your opinion from the sycophants around you. Wishful Remain thinking.

No, evidence from polls. More insults from Brexiteers for people who challenge their assertions with facts.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Remainers always seem to like to get in first with the condescending insults. Were they taught to do this? 

I have already proved to you, with evidence, that Brexiteers are far more insulting and vitriolic to remainers than remainers are to Brexiteers.

 

Sorry if that doesn't fit your slanted agenda.