U.S. Social Security International Direct Deposit (IDD) Update

[riclag]

On 7/6/2019 at 2:21 AM, Pib said:

When you go to Bangkok Bank to complete the form they can send it to Manila for you....or you can send it yourself.  Up to you.  If you say you will send it yourself they will probably have you write a sentence on a form saying you will send yourself so you don't come back to them later trying to blame them for not sending the form.   Actually, I think the completed forms from all Bangkok Bank branches around Thailand are sent to the Bangkok Bank head office on Silom Rd in Bangkok who in turn consolidates them and sends them once a week to Manila.

 

Also, keep in mind this will require you to have your Thailand address onfile with the SSA.  IDD can only be used if you have a foreign addresses.  This also means once a year you will get and need to return the "Are You Dead or Alive Form" otherwise your benefits will be suspended.  The form will be first mailed in May/June with 60 days to return.  If not returned they will mail you another one Sep/Oct with 45 days to return.  If not returned by early Jan in Jan the SSA will mail a notice your benefits will be suspended unless you respond ASAP....that is, you Jan benefit which is paid 3 Feb will not occur....nor subsequent monthly payments. 

Does everyone get this "are you dead or alive form"? Even if your address is in the USA and the direct deposit is in a USA bank?  What is the actual forms name. This is my first year as a SS recipient 

[Pib]

19 minutes ago, riclag said:

Does everyone get this "are you dead or alive form"? Even if your address is in the USA and the direct deposit is in a USA bank?  What is the actual forms name. This is my first year as a SS recipient 

Actual form name is SSA-7162.   You only get if when having a foreign address on file with the SSA.  For some countries it's required every year (like for Thailand)....for other countries it's every two years.   The form is part of the SSA Foreign Enforcement Program you can read about at below SSA link.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0302655000

 

If you have a U.S. address on file with the SSA you don't get the form.  When you croak in the U.Ss your death is reported many different ways and by various agencies even if your family does not report your death.   That level & speed of death reporting does not exist in many foreign countries especially for a foreigner.

 

And if some day you do want to receive your SS pension to a Thai bank account under the IDD program you will need to have your foreign address on file with the SSA.  Payment by IDD requires a foreign address....I don't mean just to the bank....I mean "your" address must be foreign.

 

And even if your want to receive your SS payment to Bankgok Bank via the ACH system (i.e., routing thru the Bankgok Bank New York branch) in order to have the payment made in ACH "IAT" format which will be required by Bangkok Bank come 1 Jan 2020 (or your payments gets rejected back) you will need to have your foreign address on file with SSA.  Up until 1 Jan 2020 a US govt payment in non-IAT format (a.k.a., ACH domestic format) will still be accepted which means having your US address on file with the SSA but just having your payment Direct Deposited to Bangkok Bank would still work.  

 

 

 

 

[Number 6]

On 2/21/2019 at 9:56 AM, Pib said:

That's yet to be determined because SSA has not flipped the IDD switch to on yet...the published a signup form but the IDD switch is still not flipped on.  The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansan City is actually the one who makes the IDD payment based on payment instructions provided by the SSA....that is, pay Mavideol $XXX on date XYZ to Thai bank ABC. 

 

Then the Fed actually sends the payment directly to the person's bank account (no middle man bank).  OR, uses an in-Thailand "processor" bank for all SSA payments into Thailand.  Might be Bank of Thailand, might be Bangkok Bank, Kaiskorn, etc...just whatever bank the Fed strikes an agreement with.  This way the Fed only needs to deal with one bank in Thailand to fan payments out to all beneficiaries.    The Fed sends the SSA payment to that processor bank who relays it one of numerous banks and branches within Thailand.  This processor bank is kinda like an intermediary/correspondent bank.

 

That "processor" bank has an agreement with SSA/Fed and whether any fee is charged depends on that agreement.  The processor bank then relays your payment to your particular branch via local/domestic transfer (probably BAHTNET) although it may end being coded as international. 

 

Summary: we don't know yet if there will a receiving fee for the IDD method which uses SWIFT like how there is a receiving fee for the current ACH method.  But I figure worst case any receiving fee would be no more than the current receiving fee of approx 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max).  But since the Fed does the currency exchange (sends baht; not dollars) using a wholesale exchange rate that wholesale rate is probably pretty close to the mid-market rate like Transferwise uses....so a person should be better off exchange rate wise than receiving the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming international transfers.

I didn't read all your post but why would the federal reserve pay this out? It's a private institution. The US government has this obligation. The Fed owes you nothing.

[Pib]

9 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I didn't read all your post but why would the federal reserve pay this out? It's a private institution. The US government has this obligation. The Fed owes you nothing.

The Fed is assigned the responsibility to makes the actual IDD "payments for the SSA.   The SSA sends payments instructions to the Fed to say pay Number 6 form the SSA account which is really a US Treasury acct.  The Fed then does the work of transmitting the payment.   Just like when you instructed your US bank to make an ACH/SWIFT payment it's actually the bank accomplishing that payment but pulling the money from your account with them.   

 

As mentioned earlier when you get your SSA or VA payment via "IDD" it will show the sender as the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (with an address in New Jersey) as the Federal Reserve Bank of New York is the entity that actually transmits IDD payments for approx a dozen or so US govt agencies such as SSA, VA, OPM, etc.  That responsibility is delegated/assigned to that bank.

 

Below are a few quotes from the SSA and FedReserve which may help the understanding.

 

First, partial snapshot from  SSA regarding IDD payments....be sure to review the weblink for more details as to how the FedReserve system processes the IDD payment for the SSA.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402225#a

 

 

Second, a snapshot and weblink form the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis.  Is the FedReserve a "private" or "public" organization?  The answer is both. 

 

https://www.stlouisfed.org/in-plain-english/who-owns-the-federal-reserve-banks

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

9 hours ago, Number 6 said:

I didn't read all your post but why would the federal reserve pay this out? It's a private institution. The US government has this obligation. The Fed owes you nothing.

Review of these two earlier 3 & 5 July posts should also help.

 

Post 191

 

 

Post 196

 

[Number 6]

39 minutes ago, Pib said:

Review of these two earlier 3 & 5 July posts should also help.

 

Post 191

 

 

Post 196

 

Understood. It is routed through, not paid by the Fed.

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Understood. It is routed through, not paid by the Fed.

The Fed is the one that takes money from the SSA account and then transmits the payment.   SSA says Fed, here are instructions to make a payment to Number 6...the account to pull the funds from....please pull the funds from my account with the US Treasury and use your IDD payment program which interfaces with SWIFT and your contractor banks and transmit payment to Number 6.   Different than when the SSA makes a payment via the ACH system.   And when you receive the IDD payment it will show sent by a Fed Reserve Bank, but if sent by ACH is will show sent by SSA. 

 

Like a Transferwise transfer from the US and you use the ACH system to fund the transfer.  You initiate a Transferwise transfer by instructing Transferwise to accomplish as ACH Pull from your US bank account.  Transferwise pulls the funds and then transmits the payment.  While you are the one that gave Transferwise the instructions and authorization to tap your bank account, it was Transferwise that actually made the payment on your behalf.

 

But bottomline an IDD payment is transmitted via SWIFT and will receive BTN/Bahtnet coding and an ACH transfer is transmitted via ACH and will receive FTT/International coding....this difference in coding is due to different systems used to transfer the funds and  how the routing/final transfer leg occur differently.  Like shown/talked in post 191 and 196.

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Pib you've put a lot of work into this, thanks. My only question is how can I get the Credit Advise?Will it be sent automatically? Kasikorn will send an SMS when it arrives, but I want to be able to show immigration the money came from the US. We get a new local immigration office next year that could be good or bad. The staff at the old office wont be transferring and said the new staff would be assigned from Bangkok. Not a big worry but the old staff were always strict but helpful. Once they know you are making every effort to do it correctly and fill out the required forms they are very friendly. They even refer to me as uncle and my wife as auntie. 

Just go to the K-bank branch the transfer arrives to.  Ask for a Credit Advice/Advice of Credit.  They should be able to provide it very fast at no cost assuming the transfer is not older than around 3 months.  If older than 3 months (or maybe it's 6 months) you probably have to pay a fee of around Bt100 and wait a few days to a week for your branch to request the Credit Advice from HQ K-bank.  Several folks like Tanoshi and Sheryl have posted snapshot of K-bank Credit Advices like in below post.  

 

ev

[Sheryl]

On 7/12/2019 at 10:20 AM, Tagaa said:

The form says the change of bank account request can be mailed to either Manila or Baltimore.

 

Is one faster or preferable than the other?

 

On 7/13/2019 at 7:45 AM, FredGallaher said:

Manila is very slow but will eventually get it done. It seems to relate to either staffing levels and/or work ethic. I was once given an appointment at SS in the US on a day they were closed. And we complain about the government offices in Thailand. 

 

Not my experience, unless you mean by "get it done" - get it done wrong such that you will not receive benefits, and then fail to fix it for 6 months on end, and ignore all emails.

 

Maybe I have an unusually bad rep in Manila.

 

They made a type entering my bank details and it took half a year and countless emails and phone calls to get them to fix it. Personally I would not send them anything if there is an option of sending it elsewhere.

 

 

[Sheryl]

My rep is beyond terrible and nothing seems to get her to act.

[Pib]

On 7/3/2019 at 4:11 PM, Pib said:

And before you ask the IDD payment went to the family member's special direct deposit account....our next step is to get that account change to a regular account.  I know for a fact Bangkok Bank can change a regular account to a special direct deposit account keeping the same account number....they should be able to go the other way also.  We had reasons for using the same account number when submitting the IDD form months ago.  If Bangkok Bank can't (or won't) keep the same account number then the family member will just switch to a regular account by submitting a new IDD form to Manila to update the account number....maybe even switch to another Thai bank if Bangkok Bank is uncooperative...but I expect they will be cooperative.  

 

Regarding converting the family member's current Bangkok Bank special Direct Deposit account "while keeping the same account number" to a "regular/standard issue" Bangkok Bank account with no restrictions that objective was accomplished. 

 

The direct deposit account was setup when the SSA only used the ACH transfer method resulting in the restrictions such as no debit card, requires a person to visit a branch to get money, etc.   Family member now has a debit card, can transfer funds out of the account via ibanking, and by keeping the same account number no need to open another account which can be challenging at some banks....no need to submit another 1199 IDD form to Manila to switch to a different direct deposit account number....no need to deal with any other "account number change" issues.

 

Gone are the days of needing to physically visit a branch to withdraw/transfer money, not being able to add/attach another person's name to the account via joint acct setup or power of attorney name add, etc. 

 

 

[Pib]

46 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Pib, How was it coded. as FTT or Bahtnet?

BTN/Bahtnet.  Review posts #179 on 3 Jul and #196 on 5 Jul for full details.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

BTN/Bahtnet.  Review posts #179 on 3 Jul and #196 on 5 Jul for full details.

That confirms I will not be switching to IDD from transfers via New York any time soon that are always shown as FTT.

They only way I will do it is if a easy way to get proof they are really international transfers is possible.

[Mel52]

That confirms I will not be switching to IDD from transfers via New York any time soon that are always shown as FTT.
They only way I will do it is if a easy way to get proof they are really international transfers is possible.

Joe I’m a little confused by your post. I’ve been using IDD for the last two pay periods and I can easily prove that they are international transfers. It’s actually even easier with IDD because it clearly shows where your funds originated from even more clearly than international wire transfers. Or maybe about the same either way to be honest.

I think your issue is how it shows up from your Bangkok Bank Branch in New York because you’ve been doing it that way for years through Bangkok Bank in NY. It should be really easy to prove that it’s an international transfer on your credit advice but I don’t know how your Bangkok Bank branch works in New York.

Is that just a Bangkok Bank New York issue? Or am I missing something that I should know about IDD?

I don’t have that problem with SCB here locally. I don’t understand probably because you’ve been using Bangkok Bank in New York for several years and I just started doing international transfers last year when the income affidavits went away. Maybe because of the different way you’ve been doing your transfers for many years through Bangkok Bank in New York? I’m not sure can you please clarify that? I just want to make sure I’m not making a mistake.

[Pib]

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That confirms I will not be switching to IDD from transfers via New York any time soon that are always shown as FTT.

They only way I will do it is if a easy way to get proof they are really international transfers is possible.

Yeap...if a person needs FTT coding for extension of stay "monthly transfer easy proof purposes" then it would probably be best to stay with the ACH transfer method which requires the Bangkok Bank restricted direct deposit account.

 

But if not using the monthly income method maybe because the person uses the Bt800K/Bt400K method or the person is Thai and just wants to be able to receive their SS payment to any Thai bank without any restrictions like no debit card, no online transfers out, must visit the branch to get money, and also get a little more baht posting to your account compared to the ACH method, then using IDD is probably the way to go.

 

Another reason to keep the ACH method is maybe for those folks who only want to use "one" Bangkok Bank account to receive both social security and military retirement pensions.   Since DFAS pays military retirement and does "not" offer IDD for Thailand (and apparently no plans to) the DFAS payment will continue to be via ACH and must go into a Bangkok Bank restricted direct deposit account.  And the person can have his social security payment sent to the restricted direct deposit account just like occurring now.  Heck you can send a bank SWIFT/ACH transfer to your direct deposit account.

 

I know my Thai family member was happy today when using the debit card to withdraw some money...then slid over to the cash deposit machine, inserted the debit card, and deposited the money right back into the account.  Then came home, logged onto ibanking and transferred some money out of the account the social security was going to and then transferred it right back in.   Wanted to confirm the debit card withdrawal and ibanking transfer-out really worked---and it did.

 

Yes, I know many people have no issues with the restricted direct deposit account...making a visit to a branch to withdraw/transfer money from the account is not a major issue for them.    

 

And here's a little downside to the story.  When the debit card was issued the Thai family member "and I" paid no attention to whether a UnionPay, Visa, or Mastercard was being issued....our minds were elsewhere I guess....my bad as I just wasn't paying close enough attention.  The bank issued a UnionPay card only because we failed to specify a Mastercard...not because it was forced.   We didn't even realize this until 30 minutes later when driving home from the bank.   But hey, the UnionPay card works fine for withdrawals from any ATM in Thailand, is much more widely accepted in Thailand now for purchases (but not as much as Visa/Mastercard) and we never use debit cards for purchases....only use cash or credit cards for purchases.  So, getting the UnionPay debit card is fine.   

[Mel52]

That confirms I will not be switching to IDD from transfers via New York any time soon that are always shown as FTT. They only way I will do it is if a easy way to get proof they are really international transfers is possible.

 

I suspect from your post and based on what you’ve told me about how you’ve been doing it through your Bangkok Bank Branch in New York for so many years that’s probably your issue but I’m not sure and I was hoping you could clarify that.

 

[Mel52]

That confirms I will not be switching to IDD from transfers via New York any time soon that are always shown as FTT.
They only way I will do it is if a easy way to get proof they are really international transfers is possible.

Is this a Bangkok Bank New York issue?

[Pib]

25 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

 

Joe I’m a little confused by your post. I’ve been using IDD for the last two pay periods and I can easily prove that they are international transfers. It’s actually even easier with IDD because it clearly shows where your funds originated from even more clearly than international wire transfers. Or maybe about the same either way to be honest.

I think your issue is how it shows up from your Bangkok Bank Branch in New York because you’ve been doing it that way for years through Bangkok Bank in NY. It should be really easy to prove that it’s an international transfer on your credit advice but I don’t know how your Bangkok Bank branch works in New York.

Is that just a Bangkok Bank New York issue? Or am I missing something that I should know about IDD?

I don’t have that problem with SCB here locally. I don’t understand probably because you’ve been using Bangkok Bank in New York for several years and I just started doing international transfers last year when the income affidavits went away. Maybe because of the different way you’ve been doing your transfers for many years through Bangkok Bank in New York? I’m not sure can you please clarify that? I just want to make sure I’m not making a mistake.

 

And a Bangkok Bank Credit Advice also shows the IDD is an international transfer....coming from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

 

As already reported in numerous posts in threads talking getting the "bank letter" (not to be confused with Credit Advice) from your bank stating and listing that each transfer was an international transfer is where the problem may occur.  Your servicing immigration office may "require" the letter....some may only desire it...others may be happy with only your stack of Credit Advices.   If your servicing immigration office "requires" the letter then all the Credit Advices in the world will not help.  A lot depends on your servicing immigration office as to what they will accept as proof of an international transfer.

 

With Bahtnet coding your bank may say "can-not" list that on the bank letter for immigration...say you must go to the Thai bank upstream which accomplished the final leg of the SSA/VA transfer to get the letter for that transfer....for SA/VA IDD payments that would be Citibank Thailand.  Once again, the bank letter we are talking about is not a detailed Credit Advice.  

 

Unless Bangkok Bank has changed its policy over the last week or so, they will not list a BTN/Bahtnet transfer on their letter....they will only list a transfer with FTT/International Transfer coding even though you have a Credit Advice from them showing the transfer come from the US govt....but unfortunately the Credit Advice is also carrying final leg coding of BTN/Bahtnet which is predominately a "domestic" transfer system.   I heard those words myself at the Bangkok Bank head office.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Is this a Bangkok Bank New York issue?

No it is a problem with the International Direct Deposit (IDD) from the SSA being shown as a international transfer.

Transfers via New Youk are shown as Foreign Telegraphic Transfers (FTT),

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap...if a person needs FTT coding for extension of stay "monthly transfer easy proof purposes" then it would probably be best to stay with the ACH transfer method which requires the Bangkok Bank restricted direct deposit account.

That is exactly why I will not be changing.

I already have a 12 month bank statement showing them as Foreign T/T transfers on it.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is exactly why I will not be changing.

I already have a 12 month bank statement showing them as Foreign T/T transfers on it.

I would do the same...stick with ACH method...if I was using the monthly income method.  Unless, I had an immigration office that accepted Credit Advices as proof of international transfers.

[Mel52]

I’m not getting it with IDD it’s just as easy maybe even easier to follow the money, or trace it back to it’s origin. At least with SCB it is or maybe I’m missing something. The bank letter should clearly show the origin of the transfers.

 

 

[Mel52]

No it is a problem with the International Direct Deposit (IDD) from the SSA being shown as a international transfer.
Transfers via New Youk are shown as Foreign Telegraphic Transfers (FTT),

Because I use IDD through the VA and they very clearly show up as foreign transfers. But maybe there’s something I’m not understanding.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

I’m not getting it with IDD it’s just as easy maybe even easier to follow the money, or trace it back to it’s origin. At least with SCB it is or maybe I’m missing something. The bank letter should clearly show the origin of the transfers.

You just used the "should" word. 

 

Various posters have already posted their actual experiences with their banks and immigration offices where "should" didn't pan out for them.  You need to review some of the posts in the Visa/Extension of Stay related threads. 

 

Hopefully it will work out with your bank and your immigration office--a lot depends on your particular immigration office.

[Mel52]

That is exactly why I will not be changing.
I already have a 12 month bank statement showing them as Foreign T/T transfers on it.

I’ll double check but I’ve already confirmed through SCB that they do show up as international transfers a few times because I have had the same concerns before. I even once took my SCB paperwork and asked my local immigration office if that would be acceptable one time and they said it was fine the way it looked but then again I don’t have to do my next extension until January. By then I’ll have about 14 months worth of international transfers. So I’m pretty sure I’m good to go but maybe I should double check so I don’t end up doing a visa run or something next year. I’m not too worried about it after what I’ve learned so far but you never know, it’s always possible I got bad intel.

[Mel52]

You just used the "should" word. 
 
Various posters have already posted their actual experiences with their banks and immigration offices where "should" didn't pan out for them.  You need to review some of the posts in the Visa/Extension of Stay related threads. 
 
Hopefully it will work out with your bank and your immigration office--a lot depends on your particular immigration office.

Well just read my last reply to Joe. I confirmed through my SCB branch that it shows up as an international transfer a few times actually I check that every month I get paid at the bank because of course it’s a concern. I took my SCB paperwork to my local immigration office one time and asked and they said it was ok but then again I won’t be doing my next extension until January so I’ll probably do a little more research just to be sure. I mean worst case scenario there’s always a visa run but I don’t think it’ll come to that.

[Mel52]

You just used the "should" word. 
 
Various posters have already posted their actual experiences with their banks and immigration offices where "should" didn't pan out for them.  You need to review some of the posts in the Visa/Extension of Stay related threads. 
 
Hopefully it will work out with your bank and your immigration office--a lot depends on your particular immigration office.

Do you use the Bangkok Bank New York Branch as well like Joe?

[Mel52]

My rep is beyond terrible and nothing seems to get her to act.

You know how I got them to finally do something for my wife’s Social Security I sat up all day and night long resending them the same email asking the same question over and over and over again from my iPhone every few seconds until I must have literally sent it between 1,000 or 5,000 times I even had to use my other email accounts to do that over a 24 hour period because of the spam blocker. And I cc’b EVERYONE who works there including their bosses in Baltimore. I put their email addresses on the to, cc, and bcc line so they all would receive the same email 3 times every time I sent it. Then the next day I finally got confirmation on my wife’s Social Security and it’s confirmed to start getting paid on August 2nd or 3rd. So sometimes it takes a hell of a lot of pushing to get them off their asses. As for me I’m retired military 21 years and a 100% disabled veteran I’m not on Social Security yet. But now my wife is and I had to get it set up for her, it’s a long story but damn what a nightmare so I feel your pain! Good luck with that.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Do you use the Bangkok Bank New York Branch as well like Joe?

No.  I do not have any of my govt pensions sent to a Thai bank...but use to for short while years back....my pensions go to US banks and then draw cash as needed.   I use the Bt800K method for extension of stay.  But I have used the ACH Bangkok Bank NY method many times over many years for many transfers from my US banks to Bangkok Bank since Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with ACH receiving capability.  Now I have a family member that sends their SS deposits to Bangkok Bank via ACH before but now IDD as already talked.

 

But for several years now my primary method of getting money into Thailand has been via ATM or bank counter withdrawal using my no foreign transfer fee debit cards that also reimburse ATM fees.  This is the fastest, cheapest (free), and most bang for your buck method to get money from your US banks.  Beats SWIFT, ACH, IDD, or Transferwise type methods. 

 

Using a debit card method can not be used to satisfy monthly income for immigration extension of stay purposes as debit card usage is a coded as a domestic transaction....but it's still the best, cheapest, fastest way to get money if your have no foreign transaction fee cards that reimburse fees like I do. 

[Mel52]

You know how I got them to finally do something for my wife’s Social Security I sat up all day and night long resending them the same email asking the same question over and over and over again from my iPhone every few seconds until I must have literally sent it between 1,000 or 5,000 times I even had to use my other email accounts to do that over a 24 hour period because of the spam blocker. And I cc’b EVERYONE who works there including their bosses in Baltimore. I put their email addresses on the to, cc, and bcc line so they all would receive the same email 3 times every time I sent it. Then the next day I finally got confirmation on my wife’s Social Security and it’s confirmed to start getting paid on August 2nd or 3rd. So sometimes it takes a hell of a lot of pushing to get them off their asses. As for me I’m retired military 21 years and a 100% disabled veteran I’m not on Social Security yet. But now my wife is and I had to get it set up for her, it’s a long story but damn what a nightmare so I feel your pain! Good luck with that.

So I finally got confirmation on it for my wife from Manila yesterday official confirmation FINALLY.