Germany to move ahead quickly on implementing coal exit

[webfact]

Germany to move ahead quickly on implementing coal exit

By Andrea Shalal

 

FILE PHOTO: Water vapour rises from the cooling towers of the Jaenschwalde lignite-fired power plant of Lausitz Energie Bergbau AG (LEAG) in Jaenschwalde, Germany, January 24, 2019. REUTERS/Hannibal Hanschke/File Photo

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's ruling coalition will move quickly to begin implementing the recommendations of a government-appointed commission for exiting coal power by 2038, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier told German broadcaster ARD on Sunday.

 

Altmaier, a conservative, said he was in close touch with Finance Minister Olaf Scholz, a Social Democrat, about the issue, and some money had already been earmarked in the 2019 budget to get started with various measures.

 

"We need a whole series of laws", including one that would secure new jobs and set out plans for closing coal-fired power plants, Altmaier said, promising quick action after a review of a hard-won compromise proposal finalised early on Saturday.

 

The plans call for shutting down the last of Germany's coal-fired power plants by 2038 at the latest, and providing at least 40 billion euros ($45.7 billion) in aid to regions affected by the phase-out.

 

Altmaier said details would still need to be worked after the proposals were reviewed in coming days.

 

Environment Minister Svenja Schulze, a Social Democrat, said exiting coal would send a positive signal internationally, and studies completed by her ministry showed the shift would "by no means lead to higher electricity prices".

 

Eric Schweitzer, president of Germany's Chambers of Commerce (DIHK), welcomed the proposals, which must now be implemented by the German government and 16 regional states, but said they could drive electricity costs higher.

 

Christian Lindner, leader of the pro-business Free Democrats, said the exit from coal production was already in the offing due to climate change targets, and the commission's plan would further inflate already high German energy prices.

 

"There was absolutely no need to think about an exit from coal with a fixed end-date. It was coming anyway," he said.

 

He said it would be far more efficient and economical to use carbon offsets to regulate emissions from the energy and transportation sectors.

 

The coal commission proposed that an independent panel assess the announced measures in 2023, 2026 and 2029 to see whether they were delivering in the intended results with regard to jobs, security of supply and prices.

 

Schulze said regions that now produced coal would remain important players in the German energy market through investment in new technologies, renewables, and climate protection.

 

The proposals embody Germany's strategy of shifting to renewable sources of energy -- which made up more than 40 percent of the energy mix last year, beating coal for the first time -- and follow a 2011 decision to halt nuclear power.

 

(Additional reporting by Christoph Steitz in Frankfurt; Editing by Catherine Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-01-28

[sweatalot]

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then?

[Sydebolle]

What they conveniently avoided to mention is, that Merkel used the Fukushima disaster to announce, that Germany is pulling out of nuclear power. Now the charcoal power is to go as well. Standing ovations left and right! 

Fact is, that the electricity now is drawn from sockets fed by the French Electricity Authorities ....... which produce nuclear power. So much to transparency, EU politics and the bunch of liars and crooks ???? 

 

[geriatrickid]

2038- or longer, almost 20 years, is hardly  'quickly".

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then?

Russia?

[hhinhh]

They worry only about the lost jobs in coal industry but not how to substitute the power plants. As there is very limited sourse of water power and bio-gas the only option is to build gas power plants for periods without wind and sun. This will cost a lot more than € 40 billion mentioned and additionaly make Germany depending on gas supply by Russia. I think this agreement is the best news for Mr. Putin in 2019! New business and a big foot in EU econonmy.

And by the way what does it help if Germany shuts off some 30 coal power plants if actually more than 1000 are under construction or in planning stage worldwide? Another example of Merkel desaster politics.

Edited January 28, 2019 by hhinhh

[Henryford]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then? 

Russian gas. That's why Merkel is in Putin's pocket.

[fxe1200]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then?

In peak times around 85% of the electrical energy in Germany comes from ecofriendly sources already. Besides Germany exported 54TwH in 2016. If there is a shortage coming up, Germany still can cut the exports. BTW, the high exports are due to the fact, that renewable energy can be produced cheaper than energy from fossil resources. I believe, Germany is on the right track. Thailand though does nothing, though it would be quite easy for Thailand, with its long coastlines and the abundance of sun, to expand their energy production by using wind-, thermosolar-, and wave power.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then?

Wind, sun, water, gas?

 

2 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

What they conveniently avoided to mention is, that Merkel used the Fukushima disaster to announce, that Germany is pulling out of nuclear power. Now the charcoal power is to go as well. Standing ovations left and right! 

Yes. So what?

 

2 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

Fact is, that the electricity now is drawn from sockets fed by the French Electricity Authorities ....... which produce nuclear power. So much to transparency, EU politics and the bunch of liars and crooks ???? 

 

Fact is, Germany exports more electricity than it imports, 85% vs. 15%. 

 

And what exactly does the “EU politics and the bunch of liars and crooks” have to do with it? Blaming the EU again for your own lack of knowledge?

 

48 minutes ago, hhinhh said:

They worry only about the lost jobs in coal industry but not how to substitute the power plants.

I think they worry about the environment. Can’t disagree there. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, hhinhh said:

make Germany depending on gas supply by Russia. I think this agreement is the best news for Mr. Putin in 2019!

How is it a dependency?

 

48 minutes ago, hhinhh said:

And by the way what does it help if Germany shuts off some 30 coal power plants if actually more than 1000 are under construction or in planning stage worldwide? Another example of Merkel desaster politics.

What does “worldwide” have to do with Merkel? Or is your point that no one should start the change?

[Hanaguma]

It's lovely to think of, but electricity is only a small part of Germany's overall energy use.  Less than 20% I believe. The majority is still fossil fuels, and the majority of that is still imported.  Germany is still the largest importer of natural gas n the world.

 

I don't think that Hans and Heidi will be zipping around in Chevy Volts any time in the near future!

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I wonder where they will get their energy from ? They finished nuclear power, now coal - and then?

You never heard about German Engeneering?

Germans gain a lot of energy by solar power and wind mills. 

[sawadee1947]

49 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Russian gas. That's why Merkel is in Putin's pocket.

Stupid. 

Nobody forces Germany to buy Gas from Russia! 

[puck2]

1 hour ago, hhinhh said:

They worry only about the lost jobs in coal industry but not how to substitute the power plants. As there is very limited sourse of water power and bio-gas the only option is to build gas power plants for periods without wind and sun. This will cost a lot more than € 40 billion mentioned and additionaly make Germany depending on gas supply by Russia. I think this agreement is the best news for Mr. Putin in 2019! New business and a big foot in EU econonmy.

And by the way what does it help if Germany shuts off some 30 coal power plants if actually more than 1000 are under construction or in planning stage worldwide? Another example of Merkel desaster politics.

Should Germany instead depend on Trump's more expensive and dirty, low quality  "fracking-oil"? 

[Ulic]

Germany's dirty secret. The vast amount of coal it burns while cloaking itself in "green". 

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Germany's dirty secret. The vast amount of coal it burns while cloaking itself in "green". 

40% electricity is already generated from green sources, and they target to replace the remaining 38% generated from coal until 2038. So what’s your point? 

[Baerboxer]

47 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Stupid. 

Nobody forces Germany to buy Gas from Russia! 

 

No - but they do. Now have a think why.

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

No - but they do. Now have a think why.

Who forces them?

[VocalNeal]

8 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Germany's dirty secret.

 

I think the dirty secret is/are the underground coal fires.

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No - but they do. Now have a think why.

And I buy my Caviar from Russia...... 

Have I to think why now? ????

[Sydebolle]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Fact is, Germany exports more electricity than it imports, 85% vs. 15%. 

Before you get even more agitated, this might help to understand better, what it is all about ???? 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

54 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

You never heard about German Engeneering?

Germans gain a lot of energy by solar power and wind mills. 

 

It does. But in % terms renewable sources, including all sources classed as renewals makes up about 20-25% if the requirement. And that includes a large amount produced by wood burning plants. Germany considers wood burning electricity production as renewable; and the EU considers it carbon neutral. 

 

Will be interesting to see how reducing the still biggest source, coal fired production, impacts on deforestation.

 

German engineering - you mean like VW, Audi etc and their magnificent "achievements" with engine emissions! Oh yeah, we've heard of it.

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

Before you get even more agitated, this might help to understand better, what it is all about ???? 

 

 

Please go back and check again what post I was replying to. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It does. But in % terms renewable sources, including all sources classed as renewals makes up about 20-25% if the requirement. And that includes a large amount produced by wood burning plants. Germany considers wood burning electricity production as renewable; and the EU considers it carbon neutral. 

It is 40%, generated from: 

- wind (20+%)

- sun (8+%)

- biomass (8+%)

- water (3+%)

 

(source: Fraunhofer institute)

 

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It does. But in % terms renewable sources, including all sources classed as renewals makes up about 20-25% if the requirement. And that includes a large amount produced by wood burning plants. Germany considers wood burning electricity production as renewable; and the EU considers it carbon neutral. 

 

Will be interesting to see how reducing the still biggest source, coal fired production, impacts on deforestation.

 

German engineering - you mean like VW, Audi etc and their magnificent "achievements" with engine emissions! Oh yeah, we've heard of it.

Look here:

Main renewable electricity sources were in first half of 2012: Wind energy 36.6%, biomass 22.5%, hydropower 14.7%, photovoltaics (solar) 21.2% and biowaste3.6%. Wood-fire plants fuelled by wood pellets are included in biomass. Half of Germany's timber production is consumed by wood fired plants.

[champers]

The UK is now without coal powered plants and a coal industry. The Tory party killed off the nationslised coal industry because they did not want to subsidise loss making pits. Now they go down on bended knee and offer enormous subsidies to get Chinese and Japanese companies to build nuclear power plants. That policy is not working too well at the moment as the Japanese have got cold feet. There isn't enough solar and wind to meet demand. Chinese and other non UK countries dominate these industries too, so Germany are not alone in being held to random by foreign countries.

[champers]

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It does. But in % terms renewable sources, including all sources classed as renewals makes up about 20-25% if the requirement. And that includes a large amount produced by wood burning plants. Germany considers wood burning electricity production as renewable; and the EU considers it carbon neutral. 

 

Will be interesting to see how reducing the still biggest source, coal fired production, impacts on deforestation.

 

German engineering - you mean like VW, Audi etc and their magnificent "achievements" with engine emissions! Oh yeah, we've heard of it.

Yes, chopping trees down is good. Call it Biomass to make sure people don't notice. Now, where does coal come from again?

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, champers said:

The Tory party killed off the nationslised coal industry because they did not want to subsidise loss making pits.

There was me thinking it was because Maggie Thatcher wanted to destroy the miners union.

[Grouse]

Well, well! Interesting times!

 

Great they are stopping burning lignite, filthy stuff!

 

Major mistake stopping nuclear fission. One down side of coalition government is that you have to listen to the greens. Even Green Peace is pro nuclear. And so am I. Obviously. 

 

I noted Ted the discontinuous nature of both solar and wind. But still great progress.

 

The most interesting point for me was the 40 billion euros for areas affected. I wonder what British miners think of that? How much did Thatcher and Minford put into Barnsley and similar coal towns? That's Germans for you! What about the war I say! 

[fxe1200]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It does. But in % terms renewable sources, including all sources classed as renewals makes up about 20-25% if the requirement. And that includes a large amount produced by wood burning plants. Germany considers wood burning electricity production as renewable; and the EU considers it carbon neutral. 

 

Will be interesting to see how reducing the still biggest source, coal fired production, impacts on deforestation.

 

German engineering - you mean like VW, Audi etc and their magnificent "achievements" with engine emissions! Oh yeah, we've heard of it.

There is NO large amount of pellets being burnt, though it is correctly carbon neutral. May I polish up your knowledge? Look at the chart. When the the use of Lignite, hard coal and nuclear power has vanished, Germany will use Russian gas as a backup, 40% of the natural gas used in Germany come from Russia anyhow(21% Norway, 29% Netherland, 7% own production, and 3% from other resources).

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, champers said:

The UK is now without coal powered plants and a coal industry. The Tory party killed off the nationslised coal industry because they did not want to subsidise loss making pits. Now they go down on bended knee and offer enormous subsidies to get Chinese and Japanese companies to build nuclear power plants. That policy is not working too well at the moment as the Japanese have got cold feet. There isn't enough solar and wind to meet demand. Chinese and other non UK countries dominate these industries too, so Germany are not alone in being held to random by foreign countries.

Ask yourself what happened to our own nuclear power industry. You recall Magnox and Calder Hall? Dounreay? EGRs?

WHY are we relying on the Japanese, Chinese or Americans? Why are we not using Siemens or Framatome (or whatever it's called now)

We INVENTED nuclear power generation. 

 

From an an engineering standpoint, there is no sensible alternative to using nuclear for base load power supply.

 

The bloody government should pay for our own reactors. This is particularly true if we go towards larger numbers of smaller reactors. RR make quite good ones but they can't get educated people in Derby ????