BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

For me the minimum balance history requirement between Extensions is now :

(X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1) ....

 

So during the 400 400 400 you fall and break your arm and pay 150,000 to the hospital meaning next year you will be refused an extension because of that?

[Sheryl]

Just now, overherebc said:

So during the 400 400 400 you fall and break your arm and pay 150,000 to the hospital meaning next year you will be refused an extension because of that?

the way it currently reads there are no exceptions that would allow you to spend that money.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Would it be a good idea for them to brainstorm this and come up with clarifications or would it not?

This order is effective from 1st March 2019 onwards.

 

Seems clear enough to me.

[inThailand]

1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

This is obvious to me that the banks are in collusion with this as it seems to me the  only reason, if not What is the reason ??

Very possible. 

 

Now we pay the bank one time per year for the required letter. 

 

In the future, maybe two letters, one yearly letter and a three month after letter. Will the one year letter be higher priced?

 

But maybe the primarily reason is more agent deposit assisted fees that require more IO backhanders to look the other way. A win win for agents and IO officers. A win for the banks. Expats the losers. Sounds like a normal situation here. 

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, overherebc said:

So during the 400 400 400 you fall and break your arm and pay 150,000 to the hospital meaning next year you will be refused an extension because of that?

Probably yes.

The same way it was happening before if you fall below 800k during the 3 months period.

[stanleycoin]

6 minutes ago, notamember said:

American and Australians telling lies on their affidavits are the root cause of Immigration finding the letters unacceptable

The British embassy at least tried to verify the money and demanded proof of the income being claimed by the applicant for the letter

The others just took the word of the applicant, took the money and stamped what the applicant said without seeing any proof

So the liars from USA and Australia are the real cause not the embassies or the UK government

This really started in Chiang Mai last year when they started asking awkward question of income letter supported applicants from USA like;

Ok, we see the letter, now show me the money!

Ok, i deleted my post.

But,  i relate this,  to the way Soi dos and Motor cycle taxi drivers behave in a  fight situation,  immigration has just jumped in.  at the gift horse situation  and bit everyone.

 

 

 

[Spellforce]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

For me the minimum balance history requirement between Extensions is now :

(X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1) ....

 

That doesn't work at Jomtien Immigration.

 

I never update my book bank. I just update it once per year just before going to renew my extention.

It prints:

Balance last year / Total debit 1 year / Total credit 1 year / Balance today

 

IF (Balance last year - Total debit 1 year) > 800,000 AND Balance today > 800,000 THEN it proves that your balance has always been > 800,000 bahts for 1 year

 

BUT NO they can not do the math, they want the detail / balance of all the transactions during the last 3 months !

[overherebc]

Just now, Pattaya46 said:

Probably yes.

The same way it was happening before if you fall below 800k during the 3 months period.

House for sale. Interested?

[Chivas]

Yet again another visa thread with half the respondees trying to work out how to circumnavigate the new requirements.

Heres a novel idea why not just comply with them.

[skatewash]

16 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

How about getting your calculator out on the day you do your transfer and exchange enough foreign wonga to equal 65k or just a bit more. If you did 66.666 Bht it would be 800 in 12 months. And I hope that you are correct about the Combo Method.

What you say would work in theory, but here's the problem in practice:

An IO is determining whether an applicant has brought over at least 65,000 baht per month.  What you are proposing is that the IO would apply the exchange rate when you actually brought over the money for that month.  In other words, the IO would be looking at 12 different exchange rates, one for each monthly deposit.  That is not going to happen, too much work on the IO's part required.  

 

Instead what is very likely to happen is that the IO will determine the exchange rate on the day of your application and use that single rate to determine if you ever fell below 65,000 in any one month.  If strictly interpreted it could be a real problem.  If they are willing to look at "on average" 65,000 per month then maybe OK but that terminology is specifically not used in describing the new rules for retirement extension (although it is apparently for marriage).

 

If the combo method is still viable this would overcome any small underfunding problem due to currency rate fluctuation.  Otherwise, I can see the application being rejected because on one month the 65,000 bath threshold was not met DUE TO AN EXCHANGE RATE THAT ONLY EXISTED ON THE DATE OF THE APPLICATION (so no way to know what that will be when you are calculating your individual monthly deposits). You could argue that when that deposit was made it was over the threshold, but I'm not sure what the argument winning percentage is with IOs -- I'm guessing pretty low.

[Spidey]

Just now, madmen said:

So a double payment. Immigration now has Double exposure to corruption. How long will that last?

Not necessarily. The IO could possibly apply a single waiver, covering seasoning before and after the issue of the visa extension. Also, I see nothing in the order to suggest that you will need to visit immigration between extensions. It's possible that they will ask to see evidence of your compliance when you make your next visa extension. Therefore, IO applies one big fat waiver every year. Agree that the price for the service will probably rise. How much? Depends how greedy the IO and his superiors are.

 

Don't forget, when you pay tea money, a percentage goes all the way to the top. Big Joke gets a cut and even those above him.

[Joinaman]

15 hours ago, baansgr said:

Retirement in Phillipines, age 37 or above, $10,000 (310,000 THB) in bank get lifetime retirement visa, no passing go, no hoops or wais to do and no ninety days or rentry...plus is reduced by 50% if ex-services....thats how toyland compares

is the 310,000 baht to be kept in the bank permanently ? sounds good to me, whats the cost of living like there ?

 

[theoldgit]

37 minutes ago, elliss said:

   65K ,  a  mounth approx £2600,  a retired  civil servants pension , no prob .

    Out of the  reach , for us on working class pensions.

65,000 Baht = £2,600?

 

Are you sure you're not a retired Civil Servant ????

[DrTuner]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good question. I'm wondering if he's going to order the banks to report people. 

Oh wouldn't that be wonderful. Ankle bracelet and real time bank balance to immigration. Actually, make that a neck cuff with C4 in it, once balance goes under 400k ...

 

I doubt the privacy terms&conditions would allow such - but TiT.

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, Spellforce said:

That doesn't work at Jomtien Immigration.

That will work. (from next month)

 

1 minute ago, Spellforce said:

I never update my book bank. I just update it once per year just before going to renew my extention.

It prints: Balance last year / Total debit 1 year / Total credit 1 year / Balance today

Old rules. I was speaking of new rule from OP, coming next month.

[notamember]

36 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Until the IO's have to enforce the ' must apply in person rule'.

applicants have to appear now at immigration with agents to have their photos taken

so that rule is already enforced and being complied with

next

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Sure, I have mine in a fixed deposit.

The interest will not make you rich, typically 1.5% p.a. before tax, some banks apparently a little more, I have seen 1.9% the other day. But considering that the baht is so strong, in fact I have been earning in practice from the exchange rate.

 

The one part I've never been clear on with fixed deposit accounts and Immigration, assuming one's local office will accept them, is that they usually want you to update the passbook on the day of your application.  And at least in the past, I wasn't sure you could do a passbook update for a fixed deposit account unless there was some activity that occurred in that account, which there wouldn't be on the day you apply... So???

[madmen]

Not necessarily. The IO could possibly apply a single waiver, covering seasoning before and after the issue of the visa extension. Also, I see nothing in the order to suggest that you will need to visit immigration between extensions. It's possible that they will ask to see evidence of your compliance when you make your next visa extension. Therefore, IO applies one big fat waiver every year. Agree that the price for the service will probably rise. How much? Depends how greedy the IO and his superiors are.
 
Don't forget, when you pay tea money, a percentage goes all the way to the top. Big Joke gets a cut and even those above him.

Good news for those with families here if that's the case.

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I disagree.  You can easily get a 6% dividend on a good U.S. utility stock.  That means that you could earn $24,000 baht on your 400K baht investment.  More when you consider the $800k baht you must have for a portion of the year. That is saying nothing about the potential risk of having much if any money in a Thai bank.  There are numerous world examples over the years of regimes nationalizing the banks and depositors losing everything. Lastly, it is easy to get money into Thailand.  Difficult to transfer it out. 

1.  You forgot about baht appreciation to the dollar in your calculations.  2.  You forgot about capital gains tax.  3.  Utility stocks are stocks and go up and down in value.  4.  Please link me to what risk there has been in Thai banks for the past 20 years.  5.  Don't lie - there are no examples of Thai regimes nationalizing banks.  6. Transfer money out of Thailand with your phone DeeMoney if you don't want to walk to the bank. 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

So during the 400 400 400 you fall and break your arm and pay 150,000 to the hospital meaning next year you will be refused an extension because of that?

150,000 for a broken arm ????

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The one part I've never been clear on with fixed deposit accounts and Immigration, assuming one's local office will accept them, is that they usually want you to update the passbook on the day of your application.  And at least in the past, I wasn't sure you could do a passbook update for a fixed deposit account unless there was some activity that occurred in that account, which there wouldn't be on the day you apply... So???

My fixed deposit account at Bangkok Bank has a passbook.  You can update. 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Not necessarily. The IO could possibly apply a single waiver, covering seasoning before and after the issue of the visa extension. Also, I see nothing in the order to suggest that you will need to visit immigration between extensions. It's possible that they will ask to see evidence of your compliance when you make your next visa extension. Therefore, IO applies one big fat waiver every year. Agree that the price for the service will probably rise. How much? Depends how greedy the IO and his superiors are.
 
Don't forget, when you pay tea money, a percentage goes all the way to the top. Big Joke gets a cut and even those above him.

Good news for those with families here if that's the case.

Hopefully, but it's all speculation at the moment.

[Kenny202]

As a Father of 3, its very easy to support us and have a good standard of living on less than half that, of course I dont have a tirak or hangers on sponging off me.

Yes I agree. I have a wife and 2 kids in private school and 50k more than enough. We rent a nice 3br home in a farang estate (10k). We eat like kings and kids go good school. If I was really careful could trim that down to 35k. I have everything I need, brought it with me. I can cook any farang food I want (ingredients cheap). I dont live hard or want for anything. Only difference is here I dont waste all of my disposable income buying stupid things like $1200 dinner sets...just because I can

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[skatewash]

25 minutes ago, Oxx said:

If one doesn't update one's passbook for over six months, then the detailed transactions aren't printed - only a summary of the transactions.  (At least, that's been my experience with Krung Sri.)  So, in such a case Immigration won't be able to confirm whether the 400,000 minimum was maintained in the account.  It's an obvious loophole.

 

On the positive side, it means I'll be keeping my 800,000 in a long term fixed deposit and getting a slightly better interest rate.

Loophole closed:  IO insists on seeing a bank statement from your bank for the previous twelve months.  Phuket immigration already insists on this for the previous three months under the old lump-sum method rules.

[wgdanson]

6 minutes ago, skatewash said:

What you say would work in theory, but here's the problem in practice:

An IO is determining whether an applicant has brought over at least 65,000 baht per month.  What you are proposing is that the IO would apply the exchange rate when you actually brought over the money for that month.  In other words, the IO would be looking at 12 different exchange rates, one for each monthly deposit.  That is not going to happen, too much work on the IO's part required.  

 

Instead what is very likely to happen is that the IO will determine the exchange rate on the day of your application and use that single rate to determine if you ever fell below 65,000 in any one month.  If strictly interpreted it could be a real problem.  If they are willing to look at "on average" 65,000 per month then maybe OK but that terminology is specifically not used in describing the new rules for retirement extension (although it is apparently for marriage).

 

If the combo method is still viable this would overcome any small underfunding problem due to currency rate fluctuation.  Otherwise, I can see the application being rejected because on one month the 65,000 bath threshold was not met DUE TO AN EXCHANGE RATE THAT ONLY EXISTED ON THE DATE OF THE APPLICATION (so no way to know what that will be when you are calculating your individual monthly deposits). You could argue that when that deposit was made it was over the threshold, but I'm not sure what the argument winning percentage is with IOs -- I'm guessing pretty low.

I take what you say. But if the 65k transfers actually ARE 65k, not in foreign curreny but in THB, you should be OK.

 

I go onto Transferwise and adjust the £s I am exchanging until the amount T'wise send is just above 65k, and that is what arrives in my Bkk Bank next day as an FTT.

[onera1961]

15 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

(X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1) ....

I think it is 

(X: bootstrap retirement system) 800 800 (get retirement extension) / 800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800 (X+1: depends on bank balance requirement for X)

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The one part I've never been clear on with fixed deposit accounts and Immigration, assuming one's local office will accept them, is that they usually want you to update the passbook on the day of your application.  And at least in the past, I wasn't sure you could do a passbook update for a fixed deposit account unless there was some activity that occurred in that account, which there wouldn't be on the day you apply... So???

You can update in the Passbook ATM or in branch.

It just brings the balance forward to the current date.

[Vacuum]

19 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

For the people who want a stress free retirement or live in experience, as i have advised all along, get the Thai Elite 10year visa. Pay the fee sleep easy. 

Better to keep 800K in a bank.

 

[notamember]

12 minutes ago, madmen said:

So a double payment. Immigration now has Double exposure to corruption. How long will that last?

In 2005 Thai immigration changed the rule about the 800,000 baht deposit

it would now have to be seen to have been in the bank for 2 months prior to application and 3 months for renewals 

The reasoning behind this was to stop agents loaning out money for a day to process the visa and also to stop groups of friends passing around the same 800,000 baht to support their applications

That was 13 years ago, it made a huge difference then didn't it?

 

how long will it last this time ya think?

[keemapoot]

43 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They could look at your balances for the prior 12 months it in retrospect at the next extension.

 

But it is still a very problematic requirement and poorly thought through...especially the 3+3 = 6 months during which 800K cannot be spent.

 

If you do the math they are basically requiring a 400K non-refundable (unless you die or leave Thailand) /non-spendable  bond to be posted.  Just haven't described or designed it very well.

Yes, exactly right. This is essentially a 400k bond, with a potential time bomb that if you miss the top up period (6 months), it would render the entire exercise futile anyway and could result in an extension refusal. 

 

Again, the net effect of this order is a chilling effect on the cash in the bank method, and a pouring over of many more people into marriage extensions and monthly transfer extensions, except for those who don't qualify under those two methods.