BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, wayned said:

How do they intend to check?  Are they going to require a bank letter and copy of the passbook with each 90 day report?

I have no idea how they're going to enforce the new order.

It's not in the order.

Immigration officers don't know yet.

I think nobody knows.

Don't expect premature certainty!

As far as my concern about retroactivity, when I go in for my next extension, it seems to me an officer not understanding that it's not supposed to be retroactive could simply demand to see my bank book going back a year. Then he could clearly see that I went under the 800K within three months after the extension.

There are a number of ways the new rule could be mechanically enforced. Don't believe anyone that tells you that they know for sure what those ways are yet.

 

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, Straight8 said:

Because by the look of things, most don't have the required funds... not even close!!

Many could comply legally with the requirements up until a couple months ago, or even a week ago - but have now been "disqualified by changes."

 

The "it is/isn't a 'retirement visa'!" debate makes only one important point - you are Not Permitted to Retire in Thailand, nor are you Permitted to live (with certainty) with your Thai Wife here - unless you get PR or Citizenship.  Without those, all you get is temporary permission, for which the rules can change with little or no notice, at any time (little-notice w/ latest retirement change, and no notice for the 'extra seasoning' on marriage-based extensions).

 

15 hours ago, ravip said:

Absolutely correct! 800k Bhat is the equalant of USD 25,600. Without that, why leave home? And all the posters bashing the rule, should really evaluate yourselves, including me

"Without that Where and invested in What?" comes to mind. 

 

You really need about 1.4 M Baht in cash-capital, which you can risk in a foreign country with an increasingly unstable record regarding foreigners, to meet the new requirements for retirement.

 

7 hours ago, wayned said:

Many come here to retire  because they can live out their life in a relatively pleasant way rather than in a cardboard box under the freeway overpass. 

No one getting retirement-benefits from a Western country is that poor - there are cheap enough places to live.  Yes, we can live much better here than there - but penniless "homeless people" cannot pay rent and buy food here - not to mention paying for the flight, visa-expenses, and meeting the annual-qualifications (as many did, until very recent changes).

 

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Also, I doubt if the contributions that farangs make are even considered in the rooms of power when the big guys sit down to make decisions. They don't even look after their own poor, so why would they look after poor farangs?

I would not expect them to consider our needs, other than to make sure and retain our confidence, so that we can continue to be a substitute for a social-safety-net which doesn't exist here, for tens of thousands of their citizens. 

 

But, as you point out, it appears they don't even care enough about their own poor to allow us to stay and continue with the foreign-sourced spending which helps so many of their people not be poor.  Perhaps they resent any upward-mobility existing for their own people - it sure seems that way.

 

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

"Simple" solutions can be very hard for some people.

In present case the simple solution could have been:

"Keep 800k untouched all year long in a Thai bank"

Easy to understand, but... 

While this higher-bar would foolishly drive more expats to other countries, it would, at least, not be inhumane - But only if applied to new applications exclusively, beginning in Feburary 2020 or later, and grandfathering in all here previous under the rules that applied when they first received a retirement-extension.

Edited February 4, 2019 by JackThompson

[notamember]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Was at Jomtien Immigration last week to pick up my passport with 1 year extension + photo taken.

 

There was a guy with a ticket to pick up his  passport as myself, the guy was completely lost, didn't know what to do with his ticket, neither where to go.

 

Seems to me like a guy who never entered the Jomtien Immigration before.

 

Now if one go for the first time to Immigration one can be completely lost.

 

But as he was holding a ticket he was supposed to be there the day or a couple days before.

 

Or...

Or...a guy who had  never picked up his passport before......

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, rott said:

He did not state it as an opinion he stated it as fact. Albeit possibly an interpretation of something that is uncomfortably imprecise.

As we all agree it will not help should an IO say differently.

You're just splitting hairs. He told you his reading of the order. I agree with that reading. In this case, it's fairly clear. They don't say it's retroactive so it's reasonable to assume that it is not retroactive. However, knowing that doesn't mean much if you apply and an immigration office reads it differently. This is a case where there is a good bit of clarity, but not 100 percent. There are other areas of these recent orders that are shockingly muddled. Specifically about combo method applications without embassy letters. 

[rott]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You're just splitting hairs. He told you his reading of the order. I agree with that reading. In this case, it's fairly clear. They don't say it's retroactive so it's reasonable to assume that it is not retroactive. However, knowing that doesn't mean much if you apply and an immigration office reads it differently. This is a case where there is a good bit of clarity, but not 100 percent. There are other areas of these recent orders that are shockingly muddled. Specifically about combo method applications without embassy letters. 

Not splitting hairs at all, he.stated it as plain fact and has re-stated it today on this thread.

[humbug]

51 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The 700,000 Thai elites with 2/3rds of the wealth in Thailand would not even blink in regard to the 69,300,000 poor people who have the other 1/3rd of the countries wealth shared between them, they probably have no idea how to even vote.  For most, politics is just over their heads and only for the rich?

we can all see this, there was even a banned book on 'a coup for the rich' but your comment on 'politics over their heads' should be put in the low iq comments section where it deserves, maybe you meant oppression

 

lets just hope for a change

 

from a regime of prohibition to a regime of permission

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, rainwater said:

I wouldn't call Thailand a "Banana Republic"

True.  Having lived in a few, I can attest that those are much easier to deal with with regard to visas/stay.  They don't pointlessly prevent their own people from making money from foreigners' spending, as Thailand does.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, rott said:

Not splitting hairs at all, he.stated it as plain fact and has re-stated it today on this thread.

Yes he is a master of concise writing. Something I can't claim for myself. Sorry, he isn't the God of immigration. Again, it sounds to me a correct reading of the new order, but the proof of it is in the actual ENFORCEMENT experiences of expats. He can't know that with full certainty yet. No mortal can. 

It's not rocket science, OK?

Interpretations of orders are not the same thing as enforcement realities.

This case is fairly strongly clear (lack of retroactivity) but hardly a totally certain thing as far as enforcement in all cases at all offices.

Other aspects of these new orders -- very, very unclear. 
So maybe this isn't a good example as it is fairly strongly clear -- the lack of retroactivity. 

 

To add, not my situation, but here is a hypothetical example of a case that should be seen as OK before the order, but still might raise red flags as it would look very suspicious in light of the new order. Like if your account went from 800K to 1K the day after your last extension. An extreme example but still technically fully OK under the pre-new order rules. So do you think all officers knowing about the new order would just accept that without questions or action? Maybe you do think it would always be ignored, but the truth is -- nobody knows and nobody can give you any guarantees. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[rainwater]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:32 PM, mlkik said:

800.000 baht is not very much if you genuinely have retired and have committed to living in Thailand.

I am far from being well off but I have put enough money in a Thai account to ensure a worry free retirement.

Interest rates here are no worse than my home country. I am not wealthy enough to speculate and possibly lose on the investment of stocks and shares . Therefore I see no reason not to have savings here.

 

I know many expats who have lived here for years (some of them millionaires) and none of them keep 800K parked in a Thai bank. And regarding interest rates I can get almost double with my stock broker cash account in USA without a time term compared to what I would get for a 1 year term in Thailand.

[ginjag]

6 hours ago, rott said:

Does a first world education explain the difference between to and too?

Ha Ha wanna be teacher---off topic (too)

[notamember]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Notice how the guy standing at the overstay desk is dressed - in the sleeveless shirt.  Almost every time I was in that office, there was one of those at that desk.  Usually flip-flops, too. 

agreed there were 3 there this morning in wifebeaters

its a uniform i think 

[rainwater]

30 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

True.  Having lived in a few, I can attest that those are much easier to deal with with regard to visas/stay.  They don't pointlessly prevent their own people from making money from foreigners' spending, as Thailand does.

So you'll be leaving Thailand soon for your favorite Banana Republic, safe travels and good riddance 

[Jingthing]

Just now, rainwater said:

So you'll be leaving Thailand soon for your favorite Banana Republic, safe travels and good riddance 

I think that represents a ridiculous attitude. Leaving Thailand is a personal decision. Expats that are staying are foolish to regard that as a betrayal. It's also short sighted. They can't imagine a day coming when the Thailand straw that broke the camel's back comes to their door. 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Notice how the guy standing at the overstay desk is dressed - in the sleeveless shirt.  Almost every time I was in that office, there was one of those at that desk.  Usually flip-flops, too. 

 

10 minutes ago, notamember said:

agreed there were 3 there this morning in wifebeaters

its a uniform i think 

It's certainly stupid to go to Immigration dressed this way.

[luckyluke]

50 minutes ago, notamember said:

Or...a guy who had  never picked up his passport before......

Sure,

but what we don't know and never will is why it was his first time. 

First time extension?

or first time Immigration because a photo has now to been taking when using an agent? (at least according to a member here). 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, rainwater said:

So you'll be leaving Thailand soon for your favorite Banana Republic, safe travels and good riddance 

It's always fascinating to read the posts of those who have (presumably) only been here a short time.....

 

We all 'learn' - eventually .

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Sure,

but what we don't know and never will is why it was his first time. 

First time extension?

or first time Immigration because a photo has now to been taking when using an agent? (at least according to a member here). 

I gave all the necessary documentation to my agent a week or so ago for my retirement extension renewal. (edit - Not due until the end of the month.)

 

She took a 'photo of me against a white wall on her digital camera.

 

I'll let you know as to whether my renewal is granted, or whether Immigration demand that I attend in person for the 'photo.

Edited February 4, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Like if your account went from 800K to 1K the day after your last extension. An extreme example but still technically fully OK under the pre-new order rules. So do you think all officers knowing about the new order would just accept that without questions or action? Maybe you do think it would always be ignored, but the truth is -- nobody knows and nobody can give you any guarantees. 

In other words, put immediately back into investments that pay considerably more than bank-interest.  Many report doing this.

 

27 minutes ago, rainwater said:

I know many expats who have lived here for years (some of them millionaires) and none of them keep 800K parked in a Thai bank. And regarding interest rates I can get almost double with my stock broker cash account in USA without a time term compared to what I would get for a 1 year term in Thailand. 

Exactly.  I suspect many will be relocating and coming here only for short visits, or switching to Non-OA Visas from their home countries.  That way, they don't have to put any money at all into a Thai account ever again.

[jimn]

20 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Jim, I got my OA in Oct 2016 , I was already living in Thailand so printed out the medical form ( which is in Thai and English ) and decided to get a medical done here as it was so cheap ( 360 baht ). I was also unsure if it needed to be from the Uk so got a letter from my gp as well.

As it turns out my gp’s letter was rejected and I used the Thai medical certificate.

It was an inspired move and saved me a lot of trouble. !!


I did read about the Thai Embassy going to online applications, but haven’t read up on it much as I haven’t decided whether to go that route or not.

Thanks Andrew I'll give it a go when the time comes.

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, rainwater said:

So you'll be leaving Thailand soon for your favorite Banana Republic, safe travels and good riddance 

You must be new.  I am married to a Thai here, and we will not be leaving.  I have plans A (Non-O-ME Visa), B (extension, if they allow it), or C - where "C" is going back to work here (I have the degrees and experience).  It would be a bummer to push a Thai out of a job like that, when I don't want or need a Thai-job, and would have to commute home to our farm to see my wife on weekends.

Edited February 4, 2019 by JackThompson

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Soupdragon said:

I was told this at the immigration office when I submitted the application. It was five years ago so the rules may have changed.

Yes rules have changed in the last 5 weeks!

[Thailand]

Just seen an email dated today pm from a key Pattaya agent that says the the new requirements apply to new applicants only.

 

Have not seen an official announcement yet.

 

Just saying what I have seen.



[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes rules have changed in the last 5 weeks!

They've been continually changing over the last few years.....

 

A couple ago years ago my agent was only interested in my financial statements, whereas last year (?) they were only interested in my 'proof of address''.

 

There was also a 'requirement' (a couple of years ago) to complete a form re. 'social media' activities etc.......

 

It's beyond tiresome as the requirements and rules keep changing.....  Which is why I pay an agent an extortionate sum to deal with Immigration on my behalf, even though I'm entirely legal.

[notamember]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I gave all the necessary documentation to my agent a week or so ago for my retirement extension renewal. (edit - Not due until the end of the month.)

 

She took a 'photo of me against a white wall on her digital camera.

 

I'll let you know as to whether my renewal is granted, or whether Immigration demand that I attend in person for the 'photo.

that will be interesting, they are only entertaining such applications now for medical reasons which need pictorial evidence and or/a doctors certificate

they stopped doing the big picture very recently

 

Maybe thats why its taking a week, maybe choosing a good time to slide it through

After a photo session, its normally a next day service unless the applicant wants to add a re-entry permit then its normally a two day service

 

please update

 

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

They've been continually changing over the last few years.....

 

A couple ago years ago my agent was only interested in my financial statements, whereas last year (?) they were only interested in my 'proof of address''.

 

There was also a 'requirement' (a couple of years ago) to complete a form re. 'social media' activities etc.......

 

It's beyond tiresome as the requirements and rules keep changing.....  Which is why I pay an agent an extortionate sum to deal with Immigration on my behalf, even though I'm entirely legal.

 

15 minutes ago, notamember said:

that will be interesting, they are only entertaining such applications now for medical reasons which need pictorial evidence and or/a doctors certificate

they stopped doing the big picture very recently

 

Maybe thats why its taking a week, maybe choosing a good time to slide it through

After a photo session, its normally a next day service unless the applicant wants to add a re-entry permit then its normally a two day service

 

please update

 

I will, but would point out that according to a few posters - there haven't been any rule changes over the last few years!

 

There have been many, and presumably the 'photo must be taken by the applicant attending in person' is yet another......

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

There have been many [rule changes], and presumably the 'photo must be taken by the applicant attending in person' is yet another...…

It's a requirement on bottom of TM.7 for more than 2 years already...

Apparently not followed in many immigration offices.

[Golden Triangle]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's a requirement on bottom of TM.7 for more than 2 years already...

Apparently not followed in many immigration offices.

I did my last extension via an agent, I also had to attend the immigration office to have my picture taken (in a very busy office) by one of the girls wearing civvies, my agent wasn't sure why they introduced this as before no one went to immigration - ever. I suggested that it maybe to show the applicant actually in the office surrounded by other people and not a blank white wall pic ?? 

[notamember]

30 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I will, but would point out that according to a few posters - there haven't been any rule changes over the last few years!

 

There have been many, and presumably the 'photo must be taken by the applicant attending in person' is yet another......

we are talking about agent applications aren't we?

IO to agent instructions are not something you are likely to read in police order No 9

Two years ago the picture of an applicant sitting down in an office type chair against a white back ground was required

this last year 2018 its been of a person standing up against a white background

 

They took some originals photos in the same stance against a white background with ''legitimate'' applicants to make it look like it was standard practice

Even agent applicants have to attend in person now

The big pictures is being phased out now except for non attendance for medical reasons

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by notamember
pictures too big

[Golden Triangle]

The other thing that concerns me about this whole affair is that it was announced by a smallish radio station on their daily news update, which I copied and posted on here for others to see, nothing from thaivisa or The Nation prior to this, no rumblings, no hints, no nothing, wham, out of the blue a pretty small radio station gets the scoop above the big boys!! How was that possible ?? J Fairfield closed my original post and opened this one.

 

So what else is in the air ?? I hate to think and who's gonna get the scoop on the next big change ?

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

The other thing that concerns me about this whole affair is that it was announced by a smallish radio station on their daily news update, which I copied and posted on here for others to see, nothing from thaivisa or The Nation prior to this, no rumblings, no hints, no nothing, wham, out of the blue a pretty small radio station gets the scoop above the big boys!! How was that possible ?? J Fairfield closed my original post and opened this one.

 

So what else is in the air ?? I hate to think and who's gonna get the scoop on the next big change ?

The radio station got the scoop but most of the information was wrong or speculative. I would rather get the correct facts a day later and know that it is happening, not maybe happening.