New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[tlandtday]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I don't trust America.  Frequent government shutdowns.  Nutty politicians.  Many bank failures.  I'd rather put my money in a Thai bank and have money accessible for any emergencies. 

Probably the world's most stable currencies.  I am glad you are not my financial advisor:)

[george11]

19 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The money must now be in the bank 2 months before AND 3 months after.

With the new rules, it should be must easier for retirees to open a bank account at any bank.

[StevieDee]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

I still need not flap until 2020, given this years extn is 'in the bag' as a result of a 'pension letter' purchased just before their cut off date in December ????

So existing extensions and their associated 90 day reporting are exempt of these new intended rule changes until they get renewed the next time?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by StevieDee
spelling

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The problem we are dealing with is a clique who have a "pay us off or leave" perspective.  This has nothing to do with farangs not respecting Thai culture, etc.  That, and the "foreigner who cannot pay his hospital bill," etc, is just a side-show to justify our extortion by the corrupt.

One could argue corruption is Thai culture, so we should all pay it in order to respect Thai culture.

 

On a side note, since last month I've been transferring 40k/month to my Bangkok bank account through Transferwise. Nice to see my bank book does show it as FTT (Foreign telegraphic transfer). So I might try for an extension next time, just to see.

Edited February 2, 2019 by BritManToo

[zydeco]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Nowhere is written that you have to return to immigration for "the bank check"

And many people never or rarely go to immigration for 90-Days report

Why did you misrepresent what I wrote? My point was that there is no provision for the enforcement of this new rule. As for "nowhere is it written," well, nowhere is it not written either. People need to be aware that they can enforce this any way they want. They could combine the bank check with the 90 day, set up a separate desk for it (that would employ even more people and INCREASE the patronage system), or do a check at your next extension application.  The latter one, however, would be problematic, because then Immigration would be seeing it as your staying in Thailand for "free" for one year.

[connda]

19 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Reactions on Thaivisa, a webforum frequented by expats in Thailand, was overwhelmingly negative, with many commentators saying the regulations undercut claims from Thai officials that the deposit is to ensure they have sufficient resources to get by.

 

“Then why keep up the charade that this money is to cover living expenses if it can only be used six months out of the year,” user Connda wrote. “So…what’s next? What’s the next hammer to drop?”

“And I thought the 800,000 baht was for living expenses, not as an interest earner for the Thai banks!” user Madmitch vented.

 

there is room in my attic if anyone wants to hide.

My 15 minutes of fame <laughs>  Wonder if I'm a target now?  But both Madmitch and my observations simply state the obvious. 

 

As I also said in another post, I plan to extend based on retirement this year and see how much of a hassle it is.  If it becomes as much of a hassle as extending based on marriage, I'll simply go back to a marriage extension.  At the moment this is not a problem.  I've maintain 800k a year in a bank for years, plus if I sent all both my pension to my bank month I exceed the 65k/mo rule.  I just don't have it set up that way at the moment.
So Plan A is to paste a smile on my face, grit my teeth, and see what shakes at my next immigration visit.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, StevieDee said:

So existing extensions and their associated 90 day reporting are exempt of these new intended rule changes until they get renewed the next time?

Renewals into June should be ok using just the letter but TiT.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

I have an open end fund with SCB called +A , SCB pays about 1,5% and the money is always available . And it is accepted by Immigration . It just needs to be more than 8 cen baht ...

 

Krung Sri is offering 2% on 36 month fixed deposits. With 800K you'd get around 49k after 3 years.

 

@UbonJoe, is it certain that fixed deposits will be accepted? I seem to recall in the past that some Imm offices did not accept these as they wanted it to be funds that were readily available  for spending. Of course the new rules not longer focus on funds that can be spent, in fact make most of the money un-spendable so it would make sense to allow fixed deposit...? I'm thinking of just putting 800K into a fixed deposit, will save on transfer fees plus get some interest. ...

[connda]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Krung Sri is offering 2% on 36 month fixed deposits. With 800K you'd get around 49k after 3 years.

 

@UbonJoe, is it certain that fixed deposits will be accepted? I seem to recall in the past that some Imm offices did not accept these as they wanted it to be funds that were readily available  for spending. Of course the new rules not longer focus on funds that can be spent, in fact make most of the money un-spendable so it would make sense to allow fixed deposit...? I'm thinking of just putting 800K into a fixed deposit, will save on transfer fees plus get some interest. ...

Me too.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Take 500k baht and buy Thai Elite 5 year visa and relax. Better than being their circus dog and jumping thru flaming hoops. 2  months before. 3 months after. 800k baht. Only can take out half. 65k minimum. Lol! Jump dog jump! Buy the Thai Elite and experience true paradise. https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

Take 500k baht and buy Thai Elite 5 year visa and relax. Better than being their circus dog and jumping thru flaming hoops. 2  months before. 3 months after. 800k baht. Only can take out half. 65k minimum. Lol! Jump dog jump! Buy the Thai Elite and experience true paradise. https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en

Hum...

Elite Visa: you PAY 500k for 5 year

Extension: you DEPOSIT 800k for as long as you stay

Unsure I would chose the PAY option... 

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

@UbonJoe, is it certain that fixed deposits will be accepted? I seem to recall in the past that some Imm offices did not accept these as they wanted it to be funds that were readily available  for spending.

Most immigration offices will accept a fixed deposit account if you allows withdrawals without delay or a penalty other than loss of interest.

There are a few odd offices that want movement in the account but that can be overcome by having another account for living expenses to show.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

Hum...

Elite Visa: you PAY 500k for 5 year

Extension: you DEPOSIT 800k for as long as you stay

Unsure I would chose the PAY option... 

Yup... Depends on how you view it. I avoid stress as much as possible. It may not be a viable option for some but for me it's the most comfortable. 

[DefaultName]

I've given up trying to understand all this, I renewed this week using the 800k, but was going to let it drop (spend it) in the hope of the £ / Baht rate improving.  Now I've transferred more £s in so that I stay above that crucial 800k figure - at least that way I'm "safe".

 

Next year, once all this has stabilised, I may look at that again.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, overherebc said:

As soon as they start an O-A ten year visa let me know. I want one.

Sorry, meant to say O-X. Which is already available

http://www.thaiembassy.ca/en/visiting-thailand/visas/types-visas-periods-stay-fees/visa-ox-10yrs-long-stay

[Rhys]

Thus it is back to each office and the necessary adjustments..

 

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

A 12 month bond, 7 months at 400k, and 5 months at 800k. 

In reality I feel it forces a 12 month 800k requirement.

My thought also which is why I am wondering if a fixed deposit account would be accepted.

[ajarnmarc]

18 hours ago, moonseeker said:

Still very reasonable requirements for retirement. Much more important would be a mandatory health insurance for anybody on long-term visa or retirement-extensions.

The misery I have witnessed with many foreigners  in my 24 years in TH, due to not having health coverage at all is unreal and not needed. Fully acceptable, that a government does not want low-end and irresponsible foreigners burdening their system. Or it would end up a welfare state like so many European places. There will still be plenty of retirees left, after sorting it all out.  MS>

I have been searching for the past 6 months to get insurance for health coverage.

Some agencies say can, only to later say can not cover.

So it's not so easy to obtain, 

as I've found out myself.

The coverages that might be possible at an age under 60, 

cost more than the annual visa requirements, 

and I have only been quoted the price for that policy, 

but not approved. 

Which is where things seem to go south; on the actual approval.

I have no serious health issue, never been hospitalized in the 20 years I've stayed here.

Been sent through several physicals at my expense to see about approval, 

only to later be denied without cause.

The entire health industry is a scam and the hospitals know full well how to benefit from it.

Which is why so many are now finding themselves on the gofundme site trying to get out 

from under the outrageous hospital bills they've been slammed with.

Five years back my daughter who is Thai, broke her arm at a play center in one of the shopping malls. Hospital stated it would cost only 280,000 bht to set the arm correctly with pins.

Hospital stay was only two days, including the operation, and Bangkok hospital acted like the charge was just walking around funds.

We paid naturally, as we wanted to get our daughter well asap.

In the end, the arm wasn't set correctly, resulting in the arm being placed at a permanent angle.

So if the IO start to require insurance, which seems very likely they will, it will certainly benefit the few who can obtain it, and of course it will secure an out of control health system, which is just waiting to benefit from the overpriced claims which will follow.

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

My thought also which is why I am wondering if a fixed deposit account would be accepted.

Probably should do but they throw in the must be immediately available clause, I think.

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere said:

Take 500k baht and buy Thai Elite 5 year visa and relax. Better than being their circus dog and jumping thru flaming hoops. 2  months before. 3 months after. 800k baht. Only can take out half. 65k minimum. Lol! Jump dog jump! Buy the Thai Elite and experience true paradise. https://www.thailandelite.com/?locate=en

I actually considered this and looked into it.

 

I see no advantage, and considerable disadvantage, to this vs putting 800K into a fixed deposit.

 

If The "Elite"Visa actually offered any services of use it would be different. but they really don't, especially if you do not live in Bangkok, Hua Hin, Chonburi, Phuket.

[maxcorrigan]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Good idea in theory but... unfortunately, if the requirement for the new 10 year O-A visa is any indication,  any requirement they would make for health insurance would  on the one hand not be adequate to enable people to pay their  hospital bills in case of major illness/accident while on the other hand including unnecessary OPD cover,  causing the premium to be  25 - 50% higher than it should be for the overall (very low) level of cover. An almost worthless and needlessly expensive policy that would still leave you needing additional  cover.

 

It is a genuine problem but believe me, you do not want this government making up a health insurance clause. They simply do not take the time to research and figure out what sort of cover is needed to avert the problems that frequently arise. Rather they appear to be unduly influenced by local insurance companies and to design requirements tailored to local products that are poorly designed.

 

And then there is the problem o that many people of retirement  have significant pre-existing conditions that would either make them uninsurable or result in significant exclusions (leaving them in essence still uninsured except for accidents).

 

there are things the government could set up and require that would actually make sense but that is nto likely to be what emerges fin any mandatory health insurance requirement.

Yes, it get's tedious when posters like MS state everyone should get health insurance sounding so simple a remedy but try getting health insurance at eighty years old, it will cost an arm and a leg if you can get it, throw in existing problems not covered and it would be virtually worthless, his answer would be i assume, you obviously can't afford to live here then you should go home!

[Andrew Dwyer]

My thought also which is why I am wondering if a fixed deposit account would be accepted.

A couple of posters have stated that a FD account is accepted.

Seems like my next move, 800,000 in an FD account and live off a savings account.

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I actually considered this and looked into it.

 

I see no advantage, and considerable disadvantage, to this vs putting 800K into a fixed deposit.

 

If The "Elite"Visa actually offered any services of use it would be different. but they really don't, especially if you do nto live in Bangkok, Hua Hin or Chonburi.

Couldn't Immigration just as easily change the rules/conditions for Elite? What is to stop them? They already have your non-refundable payment of 500,000. And, is there an insurance requirement that goes along with Elite?

[Mansell]

Maybe these new rules will go the way of the "No riding in the back of pickup trucks rule."

[george11]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

No secure investments pay more than 2%.  Show me?  Of course keep in mind the exchange rate.  All countries with equivalent infrastructure and cost of living have more stringent rules than Thailand.   

Yes, there is in the US. There at least a few simple saving accounts that do.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, no deal said:

I have a marriage visa for 10 years now and I have to wait two month to get my visa back to Bangkok, and that because of fake marriage!

No, because they hope to make it difficult enough that you pay them off through an agent, instead - just like the "fakers" do it without any trouble at all.  They resent your honesty.

 

2 hours ago, no deal said:

all that make everything hard for other people,why you all way complaint about immigration,i have no problem whit them and a lot people are like me!

Then you do not understand how the system works.  The extra-hoops they put up for marriage-based extensions have no effect on the dishonest.  Those hoops are designed to hurt honest people like you and me.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Just relax, one of the reputable agents in Pattaya just posted on their facbook page it will be business as usual after March 1.   

So I would just go the agent route , 15k and no worries. 

 

Visa-Run companies said the METV would be available in Vientiane, too - to replace the 2x Entry Tourist Visa available until that point.  Right up until it was announced this would not be available.

 

I expect the agent-system to continue, but expect immigration will - as with Every Other so-called Crackdown - use this to hike up their brown-envelope stream of loot.  I hope I am wrong, and the agent-fees remain unchanged, given how many more honest people who came here to follow the original rules will now be forced to use them.

 

45 minutes ago, Acharn said:

What extra payments were Immigration Officers getting by accepting the affidavit? That can't be the real reason for demanding that the embassies verify the amounts stated.

They weren't - hence the "problem" for them.  They dropped the "validation" wording out (see updated order) after knocking 3 big embassies out of the letter-system, ensuring a healthy boost in agent-envelopes, as a direct result. 

 

1 hour ago, asiamaster said:

But this is why I have 800.000 Bh fixed 12 month deposit. Not only for my visa but also for emergencies.

Better hope you don't need it close to extension-time - before OR after, now - or your emergency-problem will be complicated with immigration problems. 

[jesimps]

18 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Not sure what the rules are here as far as accessing private banking-info - but for that to work, every applicant's account would need to be monitored/checked.

 

Which ones?  And I mean nice ones, with beaches and warm weather - like you find in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, and The PI? 

 

Keep in mind, the visa-costs for staying in Cambodia and the PI are about $350 (11K Baht) / year.  That doesn't include any "money in the bank," etc.  The PI also has retirement-plan options, which skip the renewals and pesky "every-3rd-year" border-bounce flight.

 

As more people leave Thailand for those locations, business will build up to support those populations, as Thailand languishes.

 

What was the sample-size of that study?  I have yet to hear any official numbers of unpaid-hospital costs from foreigners.  I wonder what tiny percentage of the VAT taxes we pay it amounts to?

 

I also support a form of health-insurance - but for every foreigner, including short-term tourists.  Younger people take more risks, after all.  Of course, that would mean the Chinese visitors would have to buy it - and a huge portion of them cannot even afford paying full-price for their VOA - so probably won't happen or TAT's "how many visitors" numbers would crash, with many "Can barely afford the package-tour with discount VOA" Chinese filtered out.

 

If implemented, it would not be expensive - just a "Stabilize and Send Home" plan to handle the occasional broke-injured/sick foreigner is all that is needed to ensure no Thai ever has to pay for a foreigner's medical problem.

 

Agreed.  That is the solution for long-term illness, of course - unless one has health-insurance or money to pay the Thais, in which case they could stay.  Where the "fly home" plan fails, is with initial treatment for moto or jet-ski accidents and acute illness that requires treatment to allow safe repatriation.

You could also have mentioned all the money us farang pay for our wives and childrens private medical treatment. I've forked out a few quid over the years. 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

If the Thais were upset (rightly, IMHO) about issuing the visa to a fugitive from justice, then how do you explain the US, Australian, and Danish decisions.  Surely Thai immigration was not out to get them for the same reason, that's a very large number of dots to connect, indeed.  

UK, USA, AU are part of a somewhat united foreign-policy conglomerate. I am surprised Canada did not join in, and possibly NZ - though not surprised other non-English speaking nations didn't.  I have no idea how Denmark figures in all this - but guessing some sort of "body swapping" for an unknown other diplomatic favor with the UK.

 

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

When responding to FOIA requests the government doesn't get to conceal evidence even for diplomatic reasons.  Accepting they are not lying in their response they didn't take any notes.  Why was that?

Likely, they don't take notes in these settings so they don't have to reveal their tactics/methods and whatever other "deals" they don't want public.  Actors behave differently when they are being recorded, because they cannot plot and scheme to screw the common-person with a camera running. 

 

2 hours ago, skatewash said:

I'm glad to find common ground in that we both believe the embassies let down their citizens very badly and decry the unfair two-tier system that resulted from the embassies decisions.

Yes, the cooperated with TI to screw us.  Ideally, in every country, every interaction of a public official in their official-capacity (outside things like troop-movements) should be video-recorded and streamed to the Internet live.  Failing to do so should be a criminal offense. 

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, ajarnmarc said:

I have been searching for the past 6 months to get insurance for health coverage.

Some agencies say can, only to later say can not cover.

So it's not so easy to obtain, 

as I've found out myself.

The coverages that might be possible at an age under 60, 

cost more than the annual visa requirements, 

and I have only been quoted the price for that policy, 

but not approved. 

Which is where things seem to go south; on the actual approval.

I have no serious health issue, never been hospitalized in the 20 years I've stayed here.

Been sent through several physicals at my expense to see about approval, 

only to later be denied without cause.

The entire health industry is a scam and the hospitals know full well how to benefit from it.

Which is why so many are now finding themselves on the gofundme site trying to get out 

from under the outrageous hospital bills they've been slammed with.

Five years back my daughter who is Thai, broke her arm at a play center in one of the shopping malls. Hospital stated it would cost only 280,000 bht to set the arm correctly with pins.

Hospital stay was only two days, including the operation, and Bangkok hospital acted like the charge was just walking around funds.

We paid naturally, as we wanted to get our daughter well asap.

In the end, the arm wasn't set correctly, resulting in the arm being placed at a permanent angle.

So if the IO start to require insurance, which seems very likely they will, it will certainly benefit the few who can obtain it, and of course it will secure an out of control health system, which is just waiting to benefit from the overpriced claims which will follow.

There are a number of good, reliable international expat policies that will cover you after the age of 60. And a few  that will even newly insure you after age 70+.

 

if you do not have any significant pre-existing conditions I do not understand what your problem has been, unless you have made the mistake of looking only at Thai companies. That is not a good idea.

 

I readily got insured after age 60 and then again, by a different company when I decided I wanted to change, at age 65. No physicals required and absolutely no problems.

 

What visa requirement are you referring to? The O-X visa??