New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[farangx]

44 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Stop trying to convince yourself. The requirements are  clear. They want a letter from the bank to confirm 12 deposits from abroad deposited into a Thai bank. 

The IO will go by this letter,  not any other fandangled way you can prove it got there via TW, your bank statement or anyway  else. Direct International transfers which appear in your book with whatever the relative International code is for your bank., then you get the letter. 

 

The ones getting paranoid know the requirement and still want to use the cheapest method I.e TW and hope for the best. The rest are doing via Swift and taking a hit on the cost and not living in hope as they know how it will arrive in their account. 

 

And to those who used TW last month, good luck for next year or earlier depending on the IO.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by farangx

[Moon37]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:44 PM, Just1Voice said:

I'm just glad I can show a monthly income into a Thai bank for well above the required 65K a month.  With recently printed out deposits from my bank for the past year.  

Just1,  That was then, this is now!  I have been using BoA and USAA to transfer funds through Bangkok Bank's New York branch to my Bangkok Bank Savings account.   

 

Bangkok Bank is the only provider in Thailand offering a direct deposit services into a Thai bank account.  And Bank of America has posted FAQs on IAT's at http://corp.bankofamerica.com/documents/16303/235019/IAT_FAQ.pdf

 

However, effective 1 April 2019 the New York branch and Bangkok's Banks will implement some significant changes such as:  forcing a significant amount of effort in both the US and Bangkok Bank to have your IAT set up correctly via "International ACH Transaction" (IAT) from your country to your Bank here in Thailand.

 

I'm not going to list all the conditions that need to be met.  Here is a Bangkok Bank Link which is very detailed.  I also went over a .pdf of it and highlighted the key points (It was actually a very good way for me to understand)  I personally believe that this was instigated on this side of the pond.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/OtherServices/Transfers/

Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch . 

 

 

Bottom Line: One has to use Bangkok Bank (unless you prefer Swift etc).  I cannot confirm but I've heard consistently that US Banks do not want to send funds overseas so they don't have to conform to sending funds as required by the NACHA and OFAC regulations if they did. Fortunately the US Government does all it's direct deposits IAW the IAT format. So for us Yanks, it's the USG and Bangkok Bank.

 

Today $2,077 is equal to 65,000 THB. Not too many Social Security monthly payments are that high.  And, if your divorced, that may cut into your pension and then there's the possible disability benefits.  One may just have enough in one monthly payment, but have to use another check to make sure the badth rate doesn't get you. And then you're bringing too much money into the Land of Smiles.

Best to all,

Moon

Bangkok Bank IAT Detailed Information.pdf

IAT_FAQ.pdf

[Kadilo]

48 minutes ago, farangx said:

And to those who used TW last month, good luck for next year or earlier depending on the IO.

 

It’s a gamble. They may hit the 12/12 or they may not. 

Personally I take a hit on the certainty and not take the stress. 

[farangx]

12 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

It’s a gamble. They may hit the 12/12 or they may not. 

Personally I take a hit on the certainty and not take the stress. 

Last month was the first month that money transferred from overseas kicked in.  For those who are renewing their extensions next January, they would not have comply if it was a domestic transfer.  A new visa may be required.  Same for those with their last embassies letters.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by farangx

[HuskerDo]

1 hour ago, ttrd said:

Its not about whether to accept or not - it was about the fact that it doesn't make any sense. This is a new example of a quick change of an requirement prior to understand the consequences and of the same reason I am pretty sure that it will not be fully enforced completely in line with the recently pick-up ban to carry passengers behind.

 

Good to see that even the immigration have their doubts about it - a good start ....

 

 

Well, true. There will probably be several iterations of the new rules before they become firmed up and hopefully don't change for a while.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Well it's their country thus their prerogative to change the rules whenever they want for whatever reason they want. It's a country in SEA and not anything like what you knew back home. People just need to accept this fact. You don't need to like it (and many farangs don't) but you do need to accept it. Sorry! Complaining, while it helps with the frustration part of the situation, does nothing to change it.

And the meek shall inherit the earth...

 

Complaining, constructive criticism, raising a stink is often the only way to rein in the excesses of the authorities here. This has been seen countless times here - if it wasn't for a very vocal free press and an active social media presence in Thailand the country wouldn't have a smog problem, the DPM would be collecting his 100th luxury watch, and the police would be urine testing every single pedestrian to set foot in downtown Bangkok. The latter incidentally, was one situation where the British Embassy got involved and proved they can be genuinely useful. 

[HuskerDo]

17 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

And the meek shall inherit the earth...

 

Complaining, constructive criticism, raising a stink is often the only way to rein in the excesses of the authorities here. This has been seen countless times here - if it wasn't for a very vocal free press and an active social media presence in Thailand the country wouldn't have a smog problem, the DPM would be collecting his 100th luxury watch, and the police would be urine testing every single pedestrian to set foot in downtown Bangkok. The latter incidentally, was one situation where the British Embassy got involved and proved they can be genuinely useful. 

Yes, and I'm sure immigration is rushing to TV to see if the farangs approve of the suggested changes. Yeesh! 

[lamyai3]

26 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Yes, and I'm sure immigration is rushing to TV to see if the farangs approve of the suggested changes. Yeesh! 

It's the job of our weak-kneed embassies to stand up for their citizens on things like this. And look how that turned out... 

[HuskerDo]

1 minute ago, lamyai3 said:

It's the job of our weak-kneed embassies to stand up for their citizens on things like this. And look how that turned out... 

Well have you corresponded with the embassy? Complaining on this board will accomplish nothing. If you want your voice heard where it'll count then get to it.

 

[Briggsy]

How would this work?

 

1. Foreigner gets 1-year extension 1 March.

2. Foreigner goes home prior to Songkran on 6 Apr for 4 months.

3. Foreigner returns to Thailand on 10 Aug for 7 weeks.

4. Foreigner goes to Philippines for 2 weeks on 1 Oct.

5. 15 Oct Foreigner returns to Thailand.

6. Foreigner stays till 2 Jan then visits a friend in Laos for 3 days.

7. Foreigner applies for 1-year extension in late Feb.

 

The foreigner never spends a consecutive 90 days in Thailand so never has to do 90-day reports.

The foreigner was not even in Thailand at 90 days after the extension date so cannot report to Immigration.

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

How would this work?

 

1. Foreigner gets 1-year extension 1 March.

2. Foreigner goes home prior to Songkran on 6 Apr for 4 months.

3. Foreigner returns to Thailand on 10 Aug for 7 weeks.

4. Foreigner goes to Philippines for 2 weeks on 1 Oct.

5. 15 Oct Foreigner returns to Thailand.

6. Foreigner stays till 2 Jan then visits a friend in Laos for 3 days.

7. Foreigner applies for 1-year extension in late Feb.

 

The foreigner never spends a consecutive 90 days in Thailand so never has to do 90-day reports.

The foreigner was not even in Thailand at 90 days after the extension date so cannot report to Immigration.

Reports are unnecessary as no single trip was longer than 90 days - a multiple reentry permit will cover the full year.

 

Tbe upcoming extension will be subject to the post 3/19 rules, either evidence of 65k per month income into a Thai bank account, or 800k seasoned for two months prior to the extension date and kept in three months beyond (reducible to 400 thereafter). 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, smedly said:

hese new rules have been dreamed up (by the stupid dept) in order to wipe out the agents (they claim),

They claim, truly. But they do not acknowledge the problems within their own walls that facilitate the bypassing of past rules. The new rules will not affect those, just drive those who previously fulfilled the requirements at a cost of 1900 baht, into the arms of those that multiply that price by 10. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, skatewash said:

I like the idea, but are TW always coded as international transfers in your bank?

No. Although it appears most likely if you use Bangkok Bank. It depends which partner bank they use in Thailand for each particular transfer. What governs that I do not know but it changes rather than being fixed. In my case, once they used TMB and they transferred to my Bangkok Bank Acct domestically.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Jeez how many times do we have to repeat that :Yes 2 months on first extension and then 3 thereafter for all other extensions ....

Just once more [emoji848]

 

2 months on first................

 

 

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Yes entirely correct.  But the nature of that task was once a doddle. Just check my baht balance a day or so before I do my extension and top up if required.

 

Now I am forced to monitor the balance every day AND make any PREEMPTIVE top up in anticipation of (entirely unpredictable) events such as currency corrections, flash crashes, and (heaven forbid) military coups. 

No need to monitor every day. Only allow a larger margin of safety. And if one's funds are too tight to do this, well, so sorry.

[Briggsy]

25 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Tbe upcoming extension will be subject to the post 3/19 rules, either evidence of 65k per month income into a Thai bank account, or 800k seasoned for two months prior to the extension date and kept in three months beyond (reducible to 400 thereafter). 

Sorry, yes, maybe I did not make myself clear.

 

3 months after extension, the foreigner is not in the country so cannot report to immigration to show them the 800k in the bank. How is that enforced?

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Sorry, yes, maybe I did not make myself clear.

 

3 months after extension, the foreigner is not in the country so cannot report to immigration to show them the 800k in the bank. How is that enforced?

The fear is it might be when you try to do your subsequent extension and fail on the 3 month untouched 800k, or the following 7 months 400k maintained, or even the 2 month preseasoning of 800k regulations! 

Sorry, you can't un-ring that bell for 12 months. Try combination income and on deposit, or go get some cash and an agent, or go home for a Visa!

 

But this is only scaremongering, (or being pre-emptive). These requirements seem unworkable and hopefully will be reviewed.

Edited February 3, 2019 by jacko45k

[lamyai3]

4 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Sorry, yes, maybe I did not make myself clear.

 

3 months after extension, the foreigner is not in the country so cannot report to immigration to show them the 800k in the bank. How is that enforced?

Given these new rules seem to have been pulled out of a hat just a few days ago, no one has much of a clue on the particulars. Not least immigration, who (as the thread title mentions) are bewildered.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Given these new rules seem to have been pulled out of a hat just a few days ago, no one has much of a clue on the particulars. Not least immigration, who (as the thread title mentions) are bewildered.

Hopefully every expat who visits their local immigration is quizzing their IO’s about the new ruling .
Should bring some interesting replies I think [emoji848]

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Hopefully every expat who visits their local immigration is quizzing their IO’s about the new ruling .
Should bring some interesting replies I think

I just get in and do everything I can to get out as quick as possible, nor do I want to hold up the queue behind me. I always figure they don't know any more than anybody else!

[Andrew Dwyer]

I just get in and do everything I can to get out as quick as possible, nor do I want to hold up the queue behind me. I always figure they don't know any more than anybody else!

So do I jack, i just think it would be interesting to see if the various immigration offices have actually been updated with the new rules.
How many know.
How many don’t know.
How many just pretend they know when actually don’t know.
and
How many just make some sh1t up to stop people asking. !!

[IAMHERE]

^So in addition to the 90 day reports you also have to do a couple 'bank statement reports too? The want to see that money 3 months later then you need to go show them, right? Same 'show them report' whenever they want to see that you haven't taken too much of that seasoned money out of the bank. 

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

How would this work?

 

1. Foreigner gets 1-year extension 1 March.

2. Foreigner goes home prior to Songkran on 6 Apr for 4 months.

3. Foreigner returns to Thailand on 10 Aug for 7 weeks.

4. Foreigner goes to Philippines for 2 weeks on 1 Oct.

5. 15 Oct Foreigner returns to Thailand.

6. Foreigner stays till 2 Jan then visits a friend in Laos for 3 days.

7. Foreigner applies for 1-year extension in late Feb.

 

The foreigner never spends a consecutive 90 days in Thailand so never has to do 90-day reports.

The foreigner was not even in Thailand at 90 days after the extension date so cannot report to Immigration.

Again, the easiest way to apply the minimum balance checks is when the applicant applies for a new extension of stay (Note: this has nothing whatsoever to do with 90 Day Reports, nor any additional visits to immigration.).  The applicant presents a bank statement covering the previous 12 month period.  If it demonstrates compliance with the new rules --> new extension granted if it doesn't demonstrate compliance with the new rules --> no new extension and possible fines for violating the new rules (like the fine you get for not registering your address properly or not filing timely 90 Day Reports).

No additional visits required to immigration just the one annual visit to get extension application filed.  90 Day Reports can go away or be done in person or be done online or by mail.  From immigration viewpoint, it is the least work required to enforce the new rules.

 

Conflating the new rules with 90 Day Reports have led some commentators down very tortuous garden paths.

[tgeezer]

^So in addition to the 90 day reports you also have to do a couple 'bank statement reports too? The want to see that money 3 months later then you need to go show them, right? Same 'show them report' whenever they want to see that you haven't taken too much of that seasoned money out of the bank. 

No they don’t. The renewal process has always involved reviewing the previous year’s deposit, a few more requirements have been added, that is all. You can blow the lot the day after getting the permission to stay stamp if you don’t need to renew next year.



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[brianthainess]

On 2/1/2019 at 4:40 PM, trainman34014 said:

Will this lot end up in the file cabinet marked ''It's all been a terrible misunderstanding '' ?

We can only hope.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Many people keep money in the bank in an interest earning account all year long.  I have been doing this for 50 years in different countries.  What does it have to do with my testicles?

 And many people don't ,What a load of balls.

Edited February 3, 2019 by brianthainess

[chainarong]

If its bewildering the Thai immigration think what it's doing to us.

[brianthainess]

I saw that if you have lived here continuously since 1998 you only need 200,000 B would be interesting to see them checking the last ten years if they are indeed capable.   Sec. 5 (b) i think was where this was stated.

[brianthainess]

They are screwing with our lives. if they want to change the rules fine, but it should be for new applicants not us that have been here for years, and have been managing our finances just fine.

[dallen52]

Its obviously not worrying too many agents and  IO officers. 

I received this last night. 

(Agency Name withheld)

 

Dear Sir

For your retirement renewal

 

At the moment We charge 24,000 THB and if you wish to get multiple re entry is 4,000THB extra

We do NOT require bank balance

We do NOT require pension

We SPONSOR all your requirements

We only need passport + photos, we are agency, and can get it done.

We can process in 3-7 business days

(case by case).

We can service you in four ways for an extension

1) You come to our BKK office, and hand me your passport

2) If you are already in BKK we can send one of our couriers to pickup/drop off your passport.

3) You MAIL/EMS your passport to our BKK office

 

4) You go to your local immigration, and hand your passport to an immigration officer that works with us.

 

This is hilarious... (number 4)