New retiree visa rules bewilder Thai immigration: Source

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

I would not trust any IO to have kept up with this change from 3-2 months. Have it in for 3 months as always in case there is a 'misunderstanding;'. The less you give them to fault you on the better.

They will always find fault if they want to, it is hope for the best every time you enter an immigration office.

[wazzadg44]

Poster #24-I have recently had treatment for mouth cancer. I am too old for insurance (74) and I paid my way. It has now returned and I have to undergo more treatment which I will pay for again. I am not relying on Thailand, crowd funding,my partner's family etc. for money. I have enough for this treatment at the local public hospital (Phitsanulok) and the treatment is excellent.Please do not assume that all expats. can not afford health care outside of insurance. Some of us have planned well.

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, jesimps said:

You could also have mentioned all the money us farang pay for our wives and childrens private medical treatment. I've forked out a few quid over the years. 

If these wives and children are Thai citizens, they are eligible for free care and there is no need for this.

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I think the great majority of the posters understand the changes.  There is no insurance requirement.

Yet. But in Thailand, anything is possible.

[Naamblar2014]

New visa extension rules.

We have carefully reconsidered the requirements for deposit accounts.

We will no longer require the foreigners to maintain a minimum balance of 400,000 baht.  Due to the absurdity of this previous requirement,  and in light that this would only give you access to 400,000 baht for annual living expenses a review has been conducted and it is now only a requirement to have 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account with the seasoning requirements as 2 months first application and 3 months prior to subsequent applications. All other holding requirements are no longer required.  However a new condition has been implemented.  In order to have an extension granted,  the applicant must show that they have active membership with gofundme. Immigration have started a new alternative government platform. It will be called gof@ckyourselves. Membership will have it's privilages.

End announcement. 

[Sheryl]

8 minutes ago, wazzadg44 said:

Poster #24-I have recently had treatment for mouth cancer. I am too old for insurance (74) and I paid my way. It has now returned and I have to undergo more treatment which I will pay for again. I am not relying on Thailand, crowd funding,my partner's family etc. for money. I have enough for this treatment at the local public hospital (Phitsanulok) and the treatment is excellent.Please do not assume that all expats. can not afford health care outside of insurance. Some of us have planned well.

And please do not wrongly claim that 74 is "too old for insurance". Even 90 years old is not. It is only Thai companies that do not insure older people.  There are solid international companies offering expat insurance that do.

 

Of course, your case is different given that you have had cancer.  That would be a barrier to getting a policy. At a minimum there would be significant exclusions applied. But a healthy 74 year old can easily obtain insurance.

[Nanaplaza666]

20 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I'm just glad I can show a monthly income into a Thai bank for well above the required 65K a month.  With recently printed out deposits from my bank for the past year.  

Good for you coochycoochycoo

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Probably should do but they throw in the must be immediately available clause, I think.

What is the point of "must be immediately available" if one is not allowed to spend it anyhow?

????

 

 

[natway09]

I can understand your negativity but it is in place to stop agent "loans" at ridiculous interest rates being withdrawn back immediately after extension granted

[jacko45k]

41 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

My thought also which is why I am wondering if a fixed deposit account would be accepted.

I believe it would, although I have heard of some smaller offices being particular and wanting to see money go in and out. 

[Date Masamune]

What is bewildering ? Seasoned 800,000 for an extension then check it is still there at next 90 report.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

What is bewildering ? Seasoned 800,000 for an extension then check it is still there at next 90 report.

Some people do it online, some leave Thailand. Some travel in Thailand.

[Monkeyrobot]

I don’t know what the problem is , they can just look at my bank book and see I use the 800k to live on after my extension with monthly withdrawals of 100k then I do a top up 3 months prior to re apply for the extension. I am not a immigration agent , not even a secret agent , just some guy trying to follow the rules. Target the Immigration agents not the punter. 

[FPizzle]

In December the US Embassy held a Notary day where they issued notarized income/residence letters that they said were good for 6 months as agreed to by Thai Immigration. As my visa expires in June I have a letter that should cover me for the next year giving me enough time to get the heck out of here. If the new rules take effect in March will the letter still be good? Or can I go before March 1st with the letter and extend a visa that expires in June? I will be in the US when my visa expires and I don't want to get caught with 12 years of my life here in Thailand and no visa.

[JackThompson]

44 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Does this mean you're no longer a junta fanboy? Surprised you didn't foresee this happening years ago. I'm sure most who were around in 2014 did. Be careful what you wish for!

These problems did not begin with the change in govt in 2014.  They were getting steadily worse from long before then.  Fact is, our only hope of a stop to corrupt IO's short-sighted greed wrecking all our options, would require someone in the upper-echelons to intervene and put a stop to these changes.  Not holding my breath, though.

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The new  requirement may be a problem  for some but I have just thought of a  complication not yet mentioned.

I am guessing that the confirmation of the  permanent deposit of 400,000 maybe would be asked for at the date of a new 90 day report date following  an extension. Or a special visit to do same. There must be  some process to provide the  confirmation but as yet  no explanation that I have heard of.

However if any person  exits Thailand  for any time prior to that 3 months in possession of a re entry permit and is away until a date after the 3 month time  period the current 90 day report date has expired and starts fresh at  date of re  entry and irrelevant to any previous.

I am up for applying for another extension in  2 weeks time. I also plan to get a re entry permit on same  day for an exit shortly  after. 

The money on deposit is not an issue because I am fortunate enough to have 800,000 which  never leaves the  bank  year on year.

My question is  what is/will be the process to confirm that if I was  not here 3 months after an extension?

 

This is just one example of the many aspects of execution and monitoring of poorly drafted legislation that simply hasn’t been thought through- that’s why 2 separate orders in January alone. Expect yet more orders and further confusion at Immigration offices . Do you think that these regulations are not going to apply to marriage visas? As yet no,but just because they haven’t thought that through yet either. 

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, asiamaster said:

The private hospitals will not accept them and the government hospitals are facing more and more who can not pay their hospital bills.  

Where is the hard-data on govt-hospital costs?  I support an "everyone pays" system (tourists included) which covers "stabilization and send home" insurance.  More than that is not necessary to prevent Thais being on the hook for foreigner's medical costs. 

 

The plans the O-X visa requires are not aimed at merely protecting Thais from our health-liabilities, but rather selling bad insurance plans including "out-patient" care, which would be either paid in cash or, if you cannot afford to pay, received after you are sent back home.

 

2 hours ago, rexall said:

As far as I know, BUPA/Aetna will not issue a new policy to anyone over age 61. If you enrolled before age 61, you are "grandfathered in" ... literally and figuratively. Not that the shitty coverage provides much for a serious illness or injury.

See here for more options:

http://pattayaexpatsclub.info/wp/insurance/

 

48 minutes ago, ajarnmarc said:

I have been searching for the past 6 months to get insurance for health coverage.

Not sure of your age, but maybe the above.

 

44 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

Yes, it get's tedious when posters like MS state everyone should get health insurance sounding so simple a remedy but try getting health insurance at eighty years old

Full insurance will be impossible (or close to it), but "stabilize and send home if/when you cannot pay for ongoing treatment" insurance would be possible.  This, required of everyone (including younger risk-taking tourists) would solve the problem in its entirety. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, hottrader77 said:

i actually agree with some of it as it will stop companies putting 800,000 in peoples accounts and charging them 12,500 baht then after the retirement visa is granted they take back their money but now they cannot 400,000 baht has to stay in there and 3 months after 800,000 has to stay in their accounts , i agree with this part as it will stop companies doing it and also ONLY people who genuinly have 800,000 baht to put in their own account will be able to get a retirement visa , therefore you will only get people with funds staying here after all that is what is suppossed to be happening ? otherwise you will get low life staying here in the country it will help in the long run getting better people staying here not scum 

The current rules require the money to be in the account for 3 months "seasoning" prior to applying for the extension.  Agents bypass this with a brown-envelope.  No additional "rules" will change the crooked IOs into honest ones - though could possibly drive up the brown-envelope loot (passed to you as an "agent's fee") for the "service" - in-effect, rewarding the corrupt.

 

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I assume this has been mentioned before but I thought the 800000 Baht was for living on so theoretically for 3 months after you get the Extension what are you supposed to live on ?

Again theoretically you only have 400000 Baht to live on for the next 7 months before topping up to 800000 Baht 2 months prior to renewing your Extension ?

Who makes these rules up, they are very contradictory, the 800000 Baht is supposed to be for a year to live on not 400000 Baht.

 

2 hours ago, Benroon said:

He will lose a trickle of people who haven’t got enough to live here.

I keep seeing this - but I think you mean, "People who cannot reach the new moved goalposts set by immigration (w/o paying them off via an agent), but Can Live Here Just Fine, as they have for years." 

 

After all, they only let you touch 400K of your money now, so clear you don't "really need" 800K, in their estimation.

[KenKadz]

I expect the next change will be 800,000 Baht on deposit PLUS 65K per month income, similar to Malaysia's farang retirement scheme.

While I am impress with Big Joke (and colleagues) efforts to take control of their country's immigration problems and remove criminal elements, they really need to consult with university economics departments to determine just how much retired farangs contribute to the local economy, and the impact of forced removal by changes in the laws.

It is bad enough that some Embassy's have failing their Citizens by refusing to validate incomes, after doing so for 40 years. And now Thai Immigration (BJ & Co.) is going to bite the hand that feeds it?

[FPizzle]

This whole 800,000 baht issue makes no sense. Previously you had to have in the bank the difference between your monthly income and 800,000 baht per year. If you had an income of 50,000 baht per month (600,000) baht per year you only had to have 200,000 baht in the bank. The other issue that I don't really understand is the whole Thai bank deal. Why the heck do I have to have 65,000/month in a Thai account when I only need less than 30,000/month to live on. SO I should take money out of a tax free deposit IRA in the US and put it in a bank her so it can sit making me no money. And what abut responsibilities that, as a US citizen, I have in the US. It is a lot easier to get money from an ATM here to pay my bills than to transfer funds back to the US.   

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, hottrader77 said:

i actually agree with some of it as it will stop companies putting 800,000 in peoples accounts and charging them 12,500 baht then after the retirement visa is granted they take back their money but now they cannot 400,000 baht has to stay in there and 3 months after 800,000 has to stay in their accounts ,

Here's a bit of news chump, when you pay the agent 25k, there is no money loaned to anyone, you don't even need a bank account. You should try it sometime and see for yourself.

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

What is bewildering ? Seasoned 800,000 for an extension then check it is still there at next 90 report.

What if you never do 90 day reports (me). What if after extension (couple of months) your chilling in japan for 6 weeks....etc.

Surely the 3 month 400k think would be checked on next annual extension. Ah but a problem. The io now needs to check all that as well. CW, already a zoo.

Edited February 2, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

These problems did not begin with the change in govt in 2014.  They were getting steadily worse from long before then.  Fact is, our only hope of a stop to corrupt IO's short-sighted greed wrecking all our options, would require someone in the upper-echelons to intervene and put a stop to these changes.  Not holding my breath, though.

Agreed,

If the higher ups promised a free 1 year VISA for anyone dobbing in a corrupt IO/Agent and instant dismissal for the IO signing the extension, this silliness would soon stop. But of course the senior immigration officers all bought their posts, and they need to recover the money somehow.

Edited February 2, 2019 by BritManToo

[faraday]

4 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

This whole 800,000 baht issue makes no sense. Previously you had to have in the bank the difference between your monthly income and 800,000 baht per year. If you had an income of 50,000 baht per month (600,000) baht per year you only had to have 200,000 baht in the bank. The other issue that I don't really understand is the whole Thai bank deal. Why the heck do I have to have 65,000/month in a Thai account when I only need less than 30,000/month to live on. SO I should take money out of a tax free deposit IRA in the US and put it in a bank her so it can sit making me no money. And what abut responsibilities that, as a US citizen, I have in the US. It is a lot easier to get money from an ATM here to pay my bills than to transfer funds back to the US.   

I get 1.5% on mine. Not difficult.

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The current rules require the money to be in the account for 3 months "seasoning" prior to applying for the extension.  Agents bypass this with a brown-envelope.  No additional "rules" will change the crooked IOs into honest ones - though could possibly drive up the brown-envelope loot (passed to you as an "agent's fee") for the "service" - in-effect, rewarding the corrupt

Speaking of rules, this is the one currently on the books in the Immigration Act  (2022)for one who fraudulently assists someone to enter the country illegally and, for all practical purposes, providing someone with a falsified extension is assisting someone in entering the country illegally:

 

Section 63. Whoever leads or brings an alien into the Kingdom or does in any way supporting or assisting or facilitating an alien in making an entry into the Kingdom in violation to this Act, shall be punished by imprisonment not exceeding ten years and a fine not exceeding one hundred thousand baht.

[jollyhangmon]

36 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What is the point of "must be immediately available" if one is not allowed to spend it anyhow?

????

 

 

 

... sounds pretty logical, but then again not their strongest virtue, is it ... 

 

Your money is still´immediately available' with a standard fixed acct, just no interest paid on premature withdrawals!

 

 

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

If the new rules take effect in March will the letter still be good?

If you have proof of 65k baht income the new rules do not apply to you. They are only for those using the money in the bank or combination option of income and money in the bank.

[Knocker33]

21 hours ago, seajae said:

rules changes that stop IO"S from getting extra payments so IO's had to come up with a new way to be able to make it difficult for those applying, what else can we expect from these people, what will the big boy do now

 

Was thinking the same . Don't know how the Chumphon office is going to  get their 3000 bht tea money for making you wait under consideration for a month or pay the 3000 bht to have it processed the same day

[jacko45k]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed,

If the higher ups promised a free 1 year VISA for anyone dobbing in a corrupt IO/Agent and instant dismissal for the IO signing the extension, this silliness would soon stop. But of course the senior immigration officers all bought their posts, and they need to recover the money somehow.

Yes, going in there with a little camera would be a risky game!

[sumrit]

28 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

See here for more options:

http://pattayaexpatsclub.info/wp/insurance/

But this insurance is only available if first applying before you are 60 years old. And only renewable up to the age of 64 and a half. Not available to anyone 65+.

 

http://pattayaexpatsclub.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Expats-Benefit-2016_17.pdf