New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[sandmonster]

On 2/4/2019 at 6:16 AM, farangx said:

Chinese numbers are not big yet.  If it becomes huge which IMO is unlikely, the rules will adapt.

I think ferang totally underestimate the numbers of Chinese retirees here. "They all look the same" innit ????

 

Can't speak for all of Thailand, but anecdotal evidence from my trip to CM IM last month. Was having a pleasant chat to the IO who was dealing with my Non Imm O for retirement... how many do you process a day etc etc, where are retirees from etc etc.  She said about 50% of cases from China. I would hazard a guess the retirees started coming in huge numbers around 2012-13 after that movie prompted them to visit, followed by them buying condos in bulk. Since China doesn't have much of a welfare state or pension schemes, the average Chinese retiree here will be cash rich and won't be worried about 800K baht on deposit.  

[dontoearth]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

800,000 baht or 65,000 baht a month is the requirement for a single person. This equates to 20,000 British Pounds, or 1625 pounds a month.

 

First of all, I know that many pensioners (British or otherwise) are living off far less in their home countries.

 

Secondly, what is the minimum wage in Thailand? Last I heard it was about 300 baht a a day. Assuming that a person works a 6 day week, that equates to 6 x 300 x 4 = 7200 baht a month - FAR less than the 65,000 baht a month that they expect ex pats/retirees from other countries to provide proof of receiving.

 

Thirdly, I believe that the Thai Government Pension is 500 baht a month, and even the Police have to buy their own uniforms and motor bikes out of a salary which only just qualifies as 5 figure monthly sum.

 

This makes a nonsense of your statement "Thailand is a country which takes care of it's populace first, unlike many countries in the West".

 

And as for your statement "They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally......" 

I think that they are doing a very poor job of it - penalising the people who have for years not "lived off buttons" but an income/pension MANY times more than your average Thai. The people they SHOULD be penalising are the ones that you mention above, but very few of those fall into the category of the examples that I have mentioned.

 

By all means get rid of the "Bad Guys", but NOT at the expense of the "Good Guys". Of course they are the easiest ones to "catch" - the ones who in the past have followed all the Immigration Rules and Regulations, no matter how petty they seem. The ones who have NOT followed these Rules and Regulations are a bit harder to find, and would mean certain people doing the jobs they are paid to do, instead of taking the easy options all the time.

     Your last statement is true in MOST countries.  Immigration behaves terribly to those following all the rules submitting all the forms.  It gives immigration lots of publicity and fodder that the nation is being protected.  In the USA they keep endlessly jerking around legal immigrants.  It takes a minimum of 5 years and about 10,000 usd in legal fees and the filing of a minimum of two different 50 page documents that must be reviewed by literally every civil servant we have in the USA then unlimited personal interviews to become a Permanent resident and now the present administration is rounding those people up to for deporting.  In the several different 50 page documents that are submitted the sign off makes the immigrant agree to signing away legal rights like the police having to have a search warrant if they want to come to your home.   BTW if the immigrant is living with US citizens their rights are signed away too.  Every once in awhile the terrible news footage of black ops goon squads frightening women and children is too much.  

     Guest workers with legal documents have experienced delays where they must stop working and collecting pay but can't leave or they lose their place in line for the next work permit.

      Here in the USA its just a publicity stunt for old grandmas that fear anyone that doesn't have skin as white as a sheet or the inside of the white bread might be moving to the USA.

     I think what's going in TH is much the same but it is hard to point fingers if you are a US citizen.  You just don't have any room to talk!

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, Farrows3399 said:

Since the US, UK, and AUS. were the main ones targeted re: cancelled income letters and not so coincidentally they are the nationalities that have been very critical and condescending of Thais year in year out on the internet forums. Could have something to do with motivation ?

International media reportage is more likely to be a factor than any forum comments. Remember who BJ's boss is, and how pilloried he was in the English language international press last year for his watches and other things. One particular embarrassment which fell under his watch (sorry!) was the flight of the Yingluck debacle, where the country was made to look like a laughing stock, especially when she was granted a ten year UK visa in May, same month immigration instructed the UK to stop their embassy letters. 

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

800,000 baht or 65,000 baht a month is the requirement for a single person. This equates to 20,000 British Pounds, or 1625 pounds a month.

 

First of all, I know that many pensioners (British or otherwise) are living off far less in their home countries.

 

Secondly, what is the minimum wage in Thailand? Last I heard it was about 300 baht a a day. Assuming that a person works a 6 day week, that equates to 6 x 300 x 4 = 7200 baht a month - FAR less than the 65,000 baht a month that they expect ex pats/retirees from other countries to provide proof of receiving.

 

Thirdly, I believe that the Thai Government Pension is 500 baht a month, and even the Police have to buy their own uniforms and motor bikes out of a salary which only just qualifies as 5 figure monthly sum.

 

This makes a nonsense of your statement "Thailand is a country which takes care of it's populace first, unlike many countries in the West".

 

And as for your statement "They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally......" 

I think that they are doing a very poor job of it - penalising the people who have for years not "lived off buttons" but an income/pension MANY times more than your average Thai. The people they SHOULD be penalising are the ones that you mention above, but very few of those fall into the category of the examples that I have mentioned.

 

By all means get rid of the "Bad Guys", but NOT at the expense of the "Good Guys". Of course they are the easiest ones to "catch" - the ones who in the past have followed all the Immigration Rules and Regulations, no matter how petty they seem. The ones who have NOT followed these Rules and Regulations are a bit harder to find, and would mean certain people doing the jobs they are paid to do, instead of taking the easy options all the time.

Completely agree. I would add that if a Britisher retired here 15 years ago with his £1625 per month he would have had a local equivalent of 110-120,000 per month. No one in their right mind would call that unprepared for retirement. As you rightly point out, if he's already invested in a house and car his living expenses could be very low indeed, perhaps one third of the 65000 monthly requirement.

 

In spite of this there's a contingent of posters on here who seem to think that such a retiree should be forced to go back home and get a job, perhaps in their late seventies! There's plenty of unwarranted accusations of racism in these threads, but what seems to be appearing in spades is ageism, elitism, smugness and arrogance, along with a sycophantic praising of the Thai authorities regardless of what they do. 

[Jingthing]

15 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Completely agree. I would add that if a Britisher retired here 15 years ago with his £1625 per month he would have had a local equivalent of 110-120,000 per month. No one in their right mind would call that unprepared for retirement. As you rightly point out, if he's already invested in a house and car his living expenses could be very low indeed, perhaps one third of the 65000 monthly requirement.

 

In spite of this there's a contingent of posters on here who seem to think that such a retiree should be forced to go back home and get a job, perhaps in their late seventies! There's plenty of unwarranted accusations of racism in these threads, but what seems to be appearing in spades is ageism, elitism, smugness and arrogance, along with a sycophantic praising of the Thai authorities regardless of what they do. 

Spot on entirely. Identifying with the enforcers of onerous rules is the Thai expat flavor of the Stockholm syndrome. It is quite nauseating to encounter. 

[GinBoy2]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Spot on entirely. Identifying with the enforcers of onerous rules is the Thai expat flavor of the Stockholm syndrome. It is quite nauseating to encounter. 

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right.

 

It is a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

We seem to have a cadre of aging Patty Hearst's shooting up TVF LOL

[Mac98]

i took a year's lease on a nice condo on Pattaya Hill and brought the money to apply for retiremrnt extension. The new rules complicated my banking, payment of bills and maintaining credit cards. I decided to keep doing what I have been doing: SETV for 90 days, a short vacation in PP, then 30+30. Return to USA to stay with welcoming family for two to three months around the country, repeat. Annual stay in LOS now averages 8+ months and condo cheap enough to maintain year around and consider as main home. The rich can keep homes around the world, why not join them?

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

i took a year's lease on a nice condo on Pattaya Hill and brought the money to apply for retiremrnt extension. The new rules complicated my banking, payment of bills and maintaining credit cards. I decided to keep doing what I have been doing: SETV for 90 days, a short vacation in PP, then 30+30. Return to USA to stay with welcoming family for two to three months around the country, repeat. Annual stay in LOS now averages 8+ months and condo cheap enough to maintain year around and consider as main home. The rich can keep homes around the world, why not join them?

thats my style.

[GinBoy2]

11 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

i took a year's lease on a nice condo on Pattaya Hill and brought the money to apply for retiremrnt extension. The new rules complicated my banking, payment of bills and maintaining credit cards. I decided to keep doing what I have been doing: SETV for 90 days, a short vacation in PP, then 30+30. Return to USA to stay with welcoming family for two to three months around the country, repeat. Annual stay in LOS now averages 8+ months and condo cheap enough to maintain year around and consider as main home. The rich can keep homes around the world, why not join them?

Totally on board with that tactic

[Montecristo]

I am not quite sure I understood the requirement: keep 800,000B in a Thai bank account? That's around 25,000 USD. That makes no sense. Why would anyone keep 25k in a bank? What's the interest rate? Under 1%?  I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%. Basically, do I have 25k to give as a present to a Thai bank? Of course not.  Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan. Maybe even one of surrounding countries becomes a place of more permanent residence.

[MaxYakov]

13 minutes ago, Montecristo said:

I am not quite sure I understood the requirement: keep 800,000B in a Thai bank account? That's around 25,000 USD. That makes no sense. Why would anyone keep 25k in a bank? What's the interest rate? Under 1%?  I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%. Basically, do I have 25k to give as a present to a Thai bank? Of course not.  Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan. Maybe even one of surrounding countries becomes a place of more permanent residence.

I'm very negative on placing funds into a Thai bank account or even having an account (been there, done that). I stayed on double-entry tourist visas for years, but it got to be a pain plus rumors that immigration may have considered it abusive after so many of them. Still, it might be a stopgap option until a replacement permanent residence country is found.

[Odysseus123]

8 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

To me at least, one of real unknown's is what if they decide to require health insurance.

 

Even us Americans with our bizarre system, once you reach 65 and Medicare age, things actually stabilize.

 

The reverse is true in the Thai health insurance market, where past 60, 70 rates rocket for anything that actually covers you for more than a case of 'man flu'

You are correct-as I discovered to my cost.

 

The only sane and rational decision that I could make under the circumstances was to return to my home country which I find thoroughly enjoyable anyway as I do not inhabit an either/or black/white Manichean world.

 

I have returned once as a tourist for 21 days and enjoyed the feeling of being in control and removed,to a certain extent,from Thai zaniness.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

You're confusing race with nationality. Ethnic Thai minorities and people from the Northeast are very much second class citizens here. Have you never witnessed a local who's embarrassed by their dark skin?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Thailand

Absolutely right.

 

My wife, educated in US as a teenager, and we lived in Singapore for years.

 

However she is very clearly Lao. When we moved to Thailand and decided to get married, she and sister went shopping for a wedding dress in a pretty upmarket store in Bangkok.

The shopgirl insisted to look at her hands to ensure she wasn't a farmer!

 

I was waiting in the front of the store, I went ballistic, I couldn't believe it

 

Internal racism?...Hell Yes

[Naam]

5 hours ago, Montecristo said:

I am not quite sure I understood the requirement: keep 800,000B in a Thai bank account? That's around 25,000 USD. That makes no sense. Why would anyone keep 25k in a bank? What's the interest rate? Under 1%?  I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%. Basically, do I have 25k to give as a present to a Thai bank? Of course not.  Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan. Maybe even one of surrounding countries becomes a place of more permanent residence.

Quote

I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%.

with a currency that lost 4.5% per annum vs. Thai Baht for the last 4 years plus the missed interest plus the hassle of visa runs.

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic and argumentative posts have been removed.

[mania]

13 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

To me at least, one of real unknown's is what if they decide to require health insurance.

 

Anyone who does not see this coming full throttle is blind

 

It is next on the list- Possibly for Tourists but surely for expats

I know many will say it is more important for tourists & I agree, but Thailand will not kill the golden goose they prefer.

The spend & leave groups will not be touched at least initially

 

But expats? It will surely be a requirement shortly as part of any visa extension

 

 

[GinBoy2]

10 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Anyone who does not see this coming full throttle is blind

 

It is next on the list- Possibly for Tourists but surely for expats

I know many will say it is more important for tourists & I agree, but Thailand will not kill the golden goose they prefer.

The spend & leave groups will not be touched at least initially

 

But expats? It will surely be a requirement shortly as part of any visa extension

 

 

I agree, the writing is on the wall. Only the 'Stockholm Syndrome (thank you @Jingthing) members of TVF have the heads buried in the sand

 

Having health insurance is a good, and the concept of needing to prove insurance for an extension isn't all bad.

 

However, if there are no policies that older expats can afford (without selling a kidney) that's when the real problems begin

Edited February 6, 2019 by GinBoy2

[mania]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

However, if there are no policies that older expats can afford (without selling a kidney) that's when the real problems begin

Yes unfortunately you know this is how it will be, meaning unaffordable for most elderly

due to

1-age

2- pre-existing problems

 

But then again that is insurance, it is a risk/reward scenario

so I cannot blame Thai health insurance companies for not running to sell elderly expats insurance either.

 

I have a feeling when this arrives it will be left to expats to find insurance via international companies that cover in Thailand.

Because Thai companies will likely be unaffordable for those over 65

[GinBoy2]

2 minutes ago, mania said:

Yes unfortunately you know this is how it will be, meaning unaffordable for most elderly

due to

1-age

2- pre-existing problems

 

But then again that is insurance, it is a risk/reward scenario

so I cannot blame Thai health insurance companies for not running to sell elderly expats insurance either.

 

I have a feeling when this arrives it will be left to expats to find insurance via international companies that cover in Thailand.

Because Thai companies will likely be unaffordable for those over 65

Yeah it's a dilemma. 

 

Insurance companies are for profit.

 

Whether or not trying to find something on the international market is any easier, not so sure.

 

My Uncle when he turned 70, with a history of various pre existing conditions couldn't even get any travel insurance. That pretty much was when he stopped coming to visit me

[HHTel]

11 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

If you spoke a bit of Thai you'd realise this is nonsense, though most racism is directed at their fellow countrymen. There's very few examples on the forum of real racism and the mods would quickly deal with it if so.

 

The term Thai bashing is often used to attack people making any constructively critical assessment of things here. This is known as free speech and free thinking in the west, something the Thais (and an increasing number of forum posters) could sorely benefit from. 

Sorry, but you're in Thailand which does not support 'free speech'.  You must always watch what you say or take the consequences.

[Straight8]

Knee jerk reaction.

 

The only one who is leaving are those with probably less than half the require amount who have been using agents to get them through.

[lamyai3]

42 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Sorry, but you're in Thailand which does not support 'free speech'.  You must always watch what you say or take the consequences.

Granted, but I'm primarily referring to the spurious term "Thai bashing" that pops up much too often on here. I wouldn't be reckless enough to suggest piping up with contentious views in the presence of unfamiliar Thai company, nor would I encourage any Thai person to do the same. 

[ginjag]

26 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

Knee jerk reaction.

 

The only one who is leaving are those with probably less than half the require amount who have been using agents to get them through.

Wrong,  half the amount required is more than a Thai teacher earns who have their own house car and family---food for thought before bashing....THINK,  many who have the money save it by paying off agents.

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, HHTel said:

As far as I'm aware, the Treaty of Amity lapsed (expired) in 2005.

 

Nope. In effect and going strong. My friend just got a permanent residency permit using it. Last month. He has a business in Thailand, and has the expertise that the Thai government deems necessary to qualify for the permit.

 

The U.S.-Thai Treaty of Amity and Economic Relations of 1833, commonly referred to as the Treaty of Amity, is a special economic relationship between the United States of America and the Kingdom of Thailand that give special rights and benefits to U.S. citizens who wish to establish their businesses in Thailand. The Treaty of Amity treaty was amended in 1966 and provides two major benefits: 

• American companies are permitted to maintain a majority shareholding or to wholly own its company, branch office or representative office located in Thailand. 
• American companies receive national treatment, meaning U.S. firms may engage in business on the same basis as Thai companies, and are exempt from most of the restrictions on foreign investment imposed by the Alien Business Law of 1972.

https://2016.export.gov/thailand/treaty/index.asp

Edited February 6, 2019 by spidermike007

[kuma]

7 hours ago, Montecristo said:

I am not quite sure I understood the requirement: keep 800,000B in a Thai bank account? That's around 25,000 USD. That makes no sense. Why would anyone keep 25k in a bank? What's the interest rate? Under 1%?  I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%. Basically, do I have 25k to give as a present to a Thai bank? Of course not.  Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan. Maybe even one of surrounding countries becomes a place of more permanent residence.

Shocking that there is so much mystery and confusion surrounding this process. I have lived here ~15 years, and finished full time work in 2016 and changed to a retirement visa. From the beginning I was told the rule is 800,000 THB in an account for 90 days prior to your extension being granted (for your FIRST retirement visa, the 800,000 is only required for 60 days prior, all extensions thereafter have a 90 day requirement).

Once your retirement visa is granted, you are free to use that 800,000 to support your living expenses for the next twelve months. So assume you are established in a condo you own (maybe a vehicle if outside Bkk) and live a frugal yet satisfying lifestyle that consumes 400,000 THB over 12 months - about 33,333 THB / month.

Nine months into your year, you will have to import into the bank a top up amount equal to what you spent, and plan to spend, up to your next renewal. Then you will again have 800,000 in your account, for the required 90 days, on the day of your next renewal.

It could look like this:

1. >= 90 days before Visa renewal  800,000+ in bank (+ if you need cash to live for the 90 days. Remember it is a MINIMUM of 800,000 in the account each day for 90 consecutive days - so account for your living expenses in that period if they come from this account.

2. On Visa day, go submit your paperwork and get a one year extension.

3. Go to ATM, withdraw 33,333 THB (if you wish) for your next months cash flow.

4. Repeat #3 above for nine months, withdraw as you so desire.

5. In your ninth month into the visa, prepare and import enough cash to get your account to the point that you have an uninterrupted 90 days of 800,000+ THB. In this example if you withdraw 33,333 THB per month then you need to transfer in another 400,000 THB to keep your account at a minimum 800,000 THB balance.

6. At the appropriate time go renew your visa for another year.

 

In this example, the math is based on being exactly correct with your spend, you may want to import 850,000 THB or something like that, to have a cushion just in case. But you only need to do that once. If you live at a rate of spend of 400,000 THB/year, then there is a one time requirement for an additional 400,000 THB - which could be painful for some, but it is ~$12,500 USD, so an achievable goal. After that you only import an amount equal to what you need to live for the next twelve months. Yes the money is sitting and not gaining interest but as someone mentioned well back in the thread, it is a sort of bond that guarantees you have some income should a problem arise - enough to pay for some medical expense or fund a trip home should you need to repatriate.

It is not onerous, really you have to be able to manage your finances such that this small amount is available to you in emergency. The Thai state cannot be expected to have to support health care and/or repatriation for persons who end up destitute - as they do in some cases now. Its not harsh, its reality - you are responsible for yourself, get that straight.

Many on this forum who are living in the rurals and have some space to garden etc can be living off even less than 400,000/year. You are not on certain streets whipping up a storm every week, or waking up in beach side chateaus and strolling out for breakfast buffets on the beach, but you can be living a very fulfilling, interesting and comfortable life, i you put the effort in to do so.

That's my two cents

 

[kuma]

24 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Granted, but I'm primarily referring to the spurious term "Thai bashing" that pops up much too often on here. I wouldn't be reckless enough to suggest piping up with contentious views in the presence of unfamiliar Thai company, nor would I encourage any Thai person to do the same. 

Free speech and free thinking in the 'west' is under significant pressure now, like I have ever seen in my days, the approaches used and consequences are different, for example have a job in your field then make known your thoughts on a subject, say politics, which are considered not acceptable - you can often now find yourself ostracized, then out of work and on the outside looking in and severely damaged economically. It is happening now.

Two wrongs .... yes indeed that is true but these are unusual times right now, and not sure what is the path out ....

[gargamon]

4 minutes ago, kuma said:

Shocking that there is so much mystery and confusion surrounding this process. I have lived here ~15 years, and finished full time work in 2016 and changed to a retirement visa. From the beginning I was told the rule is 800,000 THB in an account for 90 days prior to your extension being granted (for your FIRST retirement visa, the 800,000 is only required for 60 days prior, all extensions thereafter have a 90 day requirement).

Once your retirement visa is granted, you are free to use that 800,000 to support your living expenses for the next twelve months. So assume you are established in a condo you own (maybe a vehicle if outside Bkk) and live a frugal yet satisfying lifestyle that consumes 400,000 THB over 12 months - about 33,333 THB / month.

Nine months into your year, you will have to import into the bank a top up amount equal to what you spent, and plan to spend, up to your next renewal. Then you will again have 800,000 in your account, for the required 90 days, on the day of your next renewal.

It could look like this:

1. >= 90 days before Visa renewal  800,000+ in bank (+ if you need cash to live for the 90 days. Remember it is a MINIMUM of 800,000 in the account each day for 90 consecutive days - so account for your living expenses in that period if they come from this account.

2. On Visa day, go submit your paperwork and get a one year extension.

3. Go to ATM, withdraw 33,333 THB (if you wish) for your next months cash flow.

4. Repeat #3 above for nine months, withdraw as you so desire.

5. In your ninth month into the visa, prepare and import enough cash to get your account to the point that you have an uninterrupted 90 days of 800,000+ THB. In this example if you withdraw 33,333 THB per month then you need to transfer in another 400,000 THB to keep your account at a minimum 800,000 THB balance.

6. At the appropriate time go renew your visa for another year.

 

In this example, the math is based on being exactly correct with your spend, you may want to import 850,000 THB or something like that, to have a cushion just in case. But you only need to do that once. If you live at a rate of spend of 400,000 THB/year, then there is a one time requirement for an additional 400,000 THB - which could be painful for some, but it is ~$12,500 USD, so an achievable goal. After that you only import an amount equal to what you need to live for the next twelve months. Yes the money is sitting and not gaining interest but as someone mentioned well back in the thread, it is a sort of bond that guarantees you have some income should a problem arise - enough to pay for some medical expense or fund a trip home should you need to repatriate.

It is not onerous, really you have to be able to manage your finances such that this small amount is available to you in emergency. The Thai state cannot be expected to have to support health care and/or repatriation for persons who end up destitute - as they do in some cases now. Its not harsh, its reality - you are responsible for yourself, get that straight.

Many on this forum who are living in the rurals and have some space to garden etc can be living off even less than 400,000/year. You are not on certain streets whipping up a storm every week, or waking up in beach side chateaus and strolling out for breakfast buffets on the beach, but you can be living a very fulfilling, interesting and comfortable life, i you put the effort in to do so.

That's my two cents

 

I think a lot of you are missing the whole point of this. Many have been gaming the system by getting letters from their embassy indicating they had pension when they don't. Many had been paying agencies to  get their visa which means they have 800k deposited into their accounts temporarily and removed again instantly after the bank letter is written. Something needed to be done to curtail this abuse, and the recent and upcoming changes are their answer. The rule changes directly address the 2 instances I mentioned.

 

So don't be blaming the government for this, blame the <deleted> that abused the system. I hope they all need to leave.

[kuma]

29 minutes ago, kuma said:

Free speech and free thinking in the 'west' is under significant pressure now, like I have ever seen in my days, the approaches used and consequences are different, for example have a job in your field then make known your thoughts on a subject, say politics, which are considered not acceptable - you can often now find yourself ostracized, then out of work and on the outside looking in and severely damaged economically. It is happening now.

Two wrongs .... yes indeed that is true but these are unusual times right now, and not sure what is the path out ....

https://reason.com/archives/2019/02/05/hotel-surveillance-state-sex-trafficking

The article is about a much larger issue than the title suggests.... and the subject country is not China or North Korea,,,,

[GinBoy2]

22 minutes ago, kuma said:

https://reason.com/archives/2019/02/05/hotel-surveillance-state-sex-trafficking

The article is about a much larger issue than the title suggests.... and the subject country is not China or North Korea,,,,

This dovetails into my previous post about internal racism.

 

When we moved to Thailand from Singapore, when our son was I think 6 at the time.

After arriving we stayed overnight at the Dusit Thani.

We left our son in the room sleeping, while we went for a drink in the bar. 

Sometime around 10ish I went back to the room to check on him. By the time I got back downstairs my wife was being interrogated by hotel security, since she was a brown skinned Thai sat alone at a bar and the assumption was she was a hooker!

 

Great place....so long as you are white(ish)

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by GinBoy2

[humbug]

1 hour ago, kuma said:

Shocking that there is so much mystery and confusion surrounding this process. I have lived here ~15 years, and finished full time work in 2016 and changed to a retirement visa. From the beginning I was told the rule is 800,000 THB in an account for 90 days prior to your extension being granted (for your FIRST retirement visa, the 800,000 is only required for 60 days prior, all extensions thereafter have a 90 day requirement).

Once your retirement visa is granted, you are free to use that 800,000 to support your living expenses for the next twelve months. So assume you are established in a condo you own (maybe a vehicle if outside Bkk) and live a frugal yet satisfying lifestyle that consumes 400,000 THB over 12 months - about 33,333 THB / month.

Nine months into your year, you will have to import into the bank a top up amount equal to what you spent, and plan to spend, up to your next renewal. Then you will again have 800,000 in your account, for the required 90 days, on the day of your next renewal.

It could look like this:

1. >= 90 days before Visa renewal  800,000+ in bank (+ if you need cash to live for the 90 days. Remember it is a MINIMUM of 800,000 in the account each day for 90 consecutive days - so account for your living expenses in that period if they come from this account.

2. On Visa day, go submit your paperwork and get a one year extension.

3. Go to ATM, withdraw 33,333 THB (if you wish) for your next months cash flow.

4. Repeat #3 above for nine months, withdraw as you so desire.

5. In your ninth month into the visa, prepare and import enough cash to get your account to the point that you have an uninterrupted 90 days of 800,000+ THB. In this example if you withdraw 33,333 THB per month then you need to transfer in another 400,000 THB to keep your account at a minimum 800,000 THB balance.

6. At the appropriate time go renew your visa for another year.

 

In this example, the math is based on being exactly correct with your spend, you may want to import 850,000 THB or something like that, to have a cushion just in case. But you only need to do that once. If you live at a rate of spend of 400,000 THB/year, then there is a one time requirement for an additional 400,000 THB - which could be painful for some, but it is ~$12,500 USD, so an achievable goal. After that you only import an amount equal to what you need to live for the next twelve months. Yes the money is sitting and not gaining interest but as someone mentioned well back in the thread, it is a sort of bond that guarantees you have some income should a problem arise - enough to pay for some medical expense or fund a trip home should you need to repatriate.

It is not onerous, really you have to be able to manage your finances such that this small amount is available to you in emergency. The Thai state cannot be expected to have to support health care and/or repatriation for persons who end up destitute - as they do in some cases now. Its not harsh, its reality - you are responsible for yourself, get that straight.

Many on this forum who are living in the rurals and have some space to garden etc can be living off even less than 400,000/year. You are not on certain streets whipping up a storm every week, or waking up in beach side chateaus and strolling out for breakfast buffets on the beach, but you can be living a very fulfilling, interesting and comfortable life, i you put the effort in to do so.

That's my two cents

 

for the few who may be destitute and in need there are thousands of foreigners everyday helping major siamese hospitals make huge profits, foreigners are not a burden on the illegal junta state, its an absolute propaganda tactic by the junta media to make it look like we are a burden, and to have foreigners believe this junta nonsense is shameful