New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I take a different approach to this dilemna - why is it foreigners here think they are entitled to stay in Thailand without some sort of guarantee they won't be a "Public Charge".  i.e., no health insurance, accident insurance, money in the bank to live on, money in a back as a bond??

I take a different approach to posters like you - why are you concerned about what other people do?

It doesn't affect you, mind your own business.

 

PS. if your avatar is a photo of you, I wouldn't insure you.

 

[humbug]

8 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

As a Canuck I hope you realise that you yourself are presently one of the entitled ones, given that your embassy is still issuing income letters?

 

People who are objecting to the recent changes are neither paupers nor entitled snowflakes, they just object to an overhaul of the rules weighted so heavily in favour of immigration and the Thai banks. I'm surprised more people aren't able to see past the faux honourable motives of immigration, who've actually admitted to being retributive in their policies in the past (2014 for instance). It's no secret that the embassies who've been penalised are those of countries who have been very vocal in their criticism of junta rule, with the UK adding insult to injury by granting the fugitive ex-PM a ten years visa last May. 

repeating junta led media words 'fugitive' just doesnt fly anymore, when this crime gang came in 5 years ago 500,000 cambodians/burmese fled accross the borders in panic through junta scare tactics. Last year annus horrible by the gang affected many other nationalities including the indians who been here for generations. 7 years ago the dinosaur generals at their stadium protest spoke about kicking foreigners out of this land. Yes they used hype for the crowd who are also were also foreigners as they were mostly chinese origin thais. They managed to change hundreds of bills of this nation and change the whole top tier of beauracracy into their thieftdom including immigration

[lamyai3]

27 minutes ago, humbug said:

repeating junta led media words 'fugitive' just doesnt fly anymore

Guess you misunderstood - I'm talking about Yingluck, and embarrassingly she did fly at an inopportune moment, much to the chagrin of those in charge. There's only one high flying fugitive further up the list, and that'd be her brother.

[humbug]

you talking in junta stooge mode, using naff words like 'fugitive' to excuse this crime gang of affecting foreigners of all nationalities over the last 5 years. Lets be clear last year didnt just affect uk,aus and us it affected the whole world who live here long term, i would say the indian community has been affected much more than the uk community

[SheungWan]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:38 AM, from the home of CC said:

leavers and stayers - sound familiar?

Thexit.

[SheungWan]

20 hours ago, whitemouse said:

 

I know several retired expats who's only reason to remain in the country is not able to sell their condos. The moment condo sells its bye bye Thailand.

Few friends have been trying to leave way before these new financial regulations, weak £ and weak $ mainly. Another big reason,  at their age health insurance is difficult or impossible, they just want to go back West. Unfortunately their only investment is house or condo, and as you said, they don't wish to give it away. So they are waiting to sell. 

Sure, I know that number. Point out that they could sell the condo for less baht than they paid and still return a surplus back home in their devalued currency and what is the response? No. Won't do it. And then they would lose their prop for remaining in the place that they just cannot wait to leave............  

[Janner1]

On 2/4/2019 at 4:37 AM, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rather they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

You can not educate PORK

[mngmn]

16 hours ago, ivorsmile said:

So it seems to me that if you have monetary requirements to satisfy the rules, you are a good person, but if you get an extension by other means because you can't meet the requirements alone, then your deemed to be an undesirable because you can't fulfill these requirements. The 90 year old that I presume has lived in Thailand for, must be quite a long time, because he has probably used agents for years, he is now deemed to be undesirable and therefore must be of bad character. I can't meet the Thai requirements, but only because over the years I used my disposable income to support my Thai extended family, who when I met them were extremely poor and I spent 15+ years of most of my income, when I was working paying to build as best a decent life for them as I could, including paying vast amounts on hospital bills for 4 members of the family, who without some ones help, two would probably be deceased now. If I'd been a self centered tight so and so. I would not be writing this comment now and would be financially, cash wise, fairly well off to the tune of around 5 mil Baht, plus my 26,000 a month pension that I now get, but I accept my predicament and have the satisfaction that four people two of which would of been deceased now, are thriving, have a small business.  

There would be many in your predicament. I sympathise but it should also serve as a warning to others.

 

When it comes to charity, Thailand is a bottomless pit since the country provides zero social security safety net. Why should foreigners fund Thailand's social security?

[SeaBorn13]

The reason I have over 1,000,000 baht per month is I worked for it.  AND that is precisely why I a miffed by this whole immigration fiasco.  A government exists solely to do what the individual can not accomplish on their own.  It's job is not to rob from the "rich" and give to the "poor".  You may not be retired or you would know that it is not easy to move money from one account to another without a certain amount of forethought.  And FYI, my Thai ties go back almost 35 years so I do have a vested interest in the state of this country.

[kuma]

9 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

This is one of the rules that has been rewritten, it was never previously necessary to transfer all the money into the country. Absurdly you can still pull the surplus out each month and repatriate it, but at what cost? Having the income is entirely different from being required to transfer it in to sit dwindling uselessly in a Thai bank account, especially where a portion of a person's financial commitments might be back in their home country. How does it work for the many who've already bought houses or condos here and live on a monthly spend of less than half the 65000? How much good does it do Thailand to push out expats who are spending substantially more than a local wage on supporting Thai families and communities here? Anyone who looks at the new rules on both income and deposit methods with more than a cursory glance will realise they're a stinker by any definition. 

 

Not sure if the Canadian embassy does income letters or sworn affidavits. For the UK, no sworn statement was necessary, rather applications were made by post or online, submitting proof of income in home country. To assume people using these methods were lying is unwarranted, the UK embassy was quite capable of indicating whether their own nationals' submitted evidence was credible or not (and they charged a hefty fee to do so), but they buckled under immigration's pressure rather than sending them back to do their own dirty work. 

To your points on cash flow, requirements outside of Thailand etc, they are valid points from a personal perspective - but I would say the OP is correct in stating it is the Thai authorities prerogative to adjust the rules to fit the needs of Thailand; but I still feel there could be a grandfathering mechanism, or at least a phase in period to give some people more time to adjust. That said it could very well be that the intent is to make it as difficult as possible to reduce numbers of visitors (OP also correct in stating those of us here on one year renewable retirement extensions are no more than visitors) as perhaps the numbers are beyond where the State is comfortable.

As for the cash flows, below is just a simple scenario showing:

- Current process on the left (assuming you bring in 800k THB each year and spend it all at a rate of 66,666 THB/month. One year is modelled.

- My take on the new process, showing two scenarios [one with a spend of 66,666 THB/month, another assuming a spend of 44,444 THB/month - if you want to make cracks about the numbers go ahead ???? ]. In the first year, there is an increased cash flow requirement to get above and stay above the new thresholds, but that is a one year event and post that you will be replenishing just what you use annually - having already built a base to meet the required minimum holding. I model multiple transfers in the 800k THB scenario, but really you could just do one each year - and there are many other variants that could work (bring 800k and leave it).

In year one of the 800k scenario, you need to import a minimum 1m THB 60 days prior to visa issuance, to keep your balance above 800k for the required 90 days after. Then you need to make a small top up at month 9 to stay above 400k, and a top up for your next renewal at month 11 (new rules stipulate only 60 days before, not 90). So there is a one time surge in cash flow required to build the base, but thereafter you would just replace what you use on an annual basis - see year two.

Please correct any assumptions or calculations if you find them.

This is without a doubt a more enhanced requirement and it will likely be fatal to the residency of anyone who has been residing with far less than this requirement. But as has been mentioned, this is not a very unreasonable requirement, one needs to have a minimum of resources available to live as a visitor outside their home country. For Thailand, that minimum has just increased. At the risk of being repetitive, I hope they decide to allow at a minimum a years grace for people to execute plans to make the new hurdle - or get organized to make a new life somewhere else.

This one hits me as my renewal is April and the new 180 day clock is already started. Luckily for me this year I happened to import additional funds for other reasons so I managed by fluke to have enough to cover the new 180 day requirement, but that was just chance, I unfortunately did not hear of this until this week, here at TV - and not sure where the official release is, does anyone have a link?

 

 

[Maitdjai]

On 2/4/2019 at 4:34 PM, Wake Up said:

Guaranteed if you cannot afford Thailand you are in serious retirement money hell. 

 

People blame Thailand for desiring only those immigrants who can live above the poverty line. Nothing wrong with that IMO.  

 

If you can’t put 800 k in the bank something is wrong with your retirement plan and they don’t want you here. I feel empathy for you but if I was in charge it would be a lot more than 800k needed to retire here. The only difference is I would include all your assets like condo ownership in the required figures and give those people married to Thais or having Thai children an easier path to stay. 

Nobody wants to know, what you'd do, if you're "in charge"!

You're not and never will be!

[watcharacters]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:27 PM, yogi100 said:

Does anyone wonder what happens to the 800K you've got in the Thai Bank if you suddenly drop dead and have made no will nor arrangements for friends or family to gain access to it.

 

 

Then you must have a Thai will and trust the banks will honor it.

[watcharacters]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:43 AM, Montecristo said:

I am not quite sure I understood the requirement: keep 800,000B in a Thai bank account? That's around 25,000 USD. That makes no sense. Why would anyone keep 25k in a bank? What's the interest rate? Under 1%?  I like stock that have high yield, nice dividends at the end of the year. I am getting between 5-8%. Basically, do I have 25k to give as a present to a Thai bank? Of course not.  Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan. Maybe even one of surrounding countries becomes a place of more permanent residence.

 

"I am getting between 5-8%."   

 

Very well done..

 

 

[ravip]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:12 PM, lamyai3 said:

If you spoke a bit of Thai you'd realise this is nonsense, though most racism is directed at their fellow countrymen. There's very few examples on the forum of real racism and the mods would quickly deal with it if so.

 

The term Thai bashing is often used to attack people making any constructively critical assessment of things here. This is known as free speech and free thinking in the west, something the Thais (and an increasing number of forum posters) could sorely benefit from. 

I agree with you. Today, we can say something in many different ways and interpret it as you like to your convenience.

eg

Expert opinion.

An experienced Diplomat said... etc 

Just what happened to Julian Assange? What is known as free speech and free thinking in the west... my foot!

Who is the largest manufacturer of arms?

Who is the largest war monger on this planet and how many countries had it destroyed?

Where is the free speech and free thinking in the west?

And the big business mafia who calls themselves humanitarians?

You are absolutely honest and correct on your above comment... 555

[BritManToo]

On 2/6/2019 at 6:22 PM, ivorsmile said:

I spent 15+ years of most of my income, when I was working paying to build as best a decent life for them as I could, including paying vast amounts on hospital bills for 4 members of the family, who without some ones help, two would probably be deceased now.

Oh dear, you do know hospital is free for Thai citizens?

And it's a pretty good service too!

[BritManToo]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:43 AM, Montecristo said:

Someone wrote here: METV, and some travel back home, plus surrounding countries. Sounds like a plan.

I could certainly do 6 months in Siam Reap (6 month retirement VISA $150).

[yogi100]

7 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Then you must have a Thai will and trust the banks will honor it.

 'if you suddenly drop dead and have made no will'

[HHTel]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Oh dear, you do know hospital is free for Thai citizens?

And it's a pretty good service too!

Well almost free.  It costs 30 baht.  I've used it many times for my Thai and half-Thai family members.

[MaxYakov]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:07 AM, GinBoy2 said:

Absolutely right.

 

My wife, educated in US as a teenager, and we lived in Singapore for years.

 

However she is very clearly Lao. When we moved to Thailand and decided to get married, she and sister went shopping for a wedding dress in a pretty upmarket store in Bangkok.

The shopgirl insisted to look at her hands to ensure she wasn't a farmer!

 

I was waiting in the front of the store, I went ballistic, I couldn't believe it

 

Internal racism?...Hell Yes

"Internal racism?" - never heard of that one. Careful not to confuse "racism" with classism and/or discrimination and/or cultural or religious rejection.

 

The way I look at is: racism happens between the ears and is not illegal (unless it leads to an illegal action). It could lead to classism or discrimination where the (what may or not be) racism rubber hits the road (leads to action such as (perhaps illegal) discrimination).

 

We farangs are discriminated against all the time, but I'm careful not to necessarily put it down to racism. If you're not Japanese, try getting into one of those Japanese-only clubs in Phat Phong and elsewhere in Bangkok.

 

So the question we should be asking, IMHO, is whether any store/shop/bar has the right to discriminate w/r which customers would be acceptable (to sell to). The U.S. and others, I believe, have gone completely over-the-top with forcing shops to cater to a certain class of undesirable (to them) customers, such as the "gay" when it would be against their morals, religious beliefs, etc.

[Peasandmash]

best wishes to the 1/3 that are leaving, enjoy Cambodia!

[Jingthing]

Just now, Peasandmash said:

best wishes to the 1/3 that are leaving, enjoy Cambodia!

Bless your dear heart. 

[bert bloggs]

On 2/7/2019 at 1:26 PM, watcharacters said:

 

 

Then you must have a Thai will and trust the banks will honor it.

my wife has access to my cards and knows the pin nos ,so she can just take it out when i pop my clogs,as for the UK our bank accounts are joint .

[dcnx]

3 hours ago, Peasandmash said:

best wishes to the 1/3 that are leaving, enjoy Cambodia!

Parts of Central and South America are nice and affordable with non of this visa madness and easy paths to residency and citizenship. 

 

People moving to Cambodia are either lazy, in love with dirty SE Asia, unable to buy a $2000 ticket to Latin America, or feeding an addiction that they know will be catered to in Cambodia. There’s no other logical reason to live in that crap hole, especially when there are better options. Cambodia is where you go when you flunk out of Pattaya.

 

But to each his own, you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

Parts of Central and South America are nice and affordable with non of this visa madness and easy paths to residency and citizenship. 

 

People moving to Cambodia are either lazy, in love with dirty SE Asia, unable to buy a $2000 ticket to Latin America, or feeding an addiction that they know will be catered to in Cambodia. There’s no other logical reason to live in that crap hole, especially when there are better options. Cambodia is where you go when you flunk out of Pattaya.

 

But to each his own, you gotta do what you gotta do.

In all fairness, and I'm making a gross generalization here, applying for retirement status in most Latin American programs is more difficult, more expensive, and more expensive than applying for annual retirement extensions in Thailand. But in general (not all) these are one time applications giving approval for lifetime residency, requiring no import of funds when pension based, have much lower income requirements than Thailand, requiring no annual re-applications. So the process can be very rough going in and you might not make it, but once in, assuming approval, then it gets much, much easier potentially for life. 

A typical example. Ecuador. Applications can be a nightmare, but once in, you're in.

Colombia. Interesting recent change. Apply first for a three year stay (reportedly quick and easy if you use a non-corrupt agent to expedite). Then the same thing again. Then after 5 years -- permanent residency. This is fairly recent which is part of the reason Colombia aside from it's desirability (quality of life for the cost) is getting to be on lots of people's radar. 

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm gonna give a little thumbs up for Columbia here. As you know I'm Hispanic, and one of my second cousins married a Colombian and moved there few years ago.

We went to visit last year. They live in Cartagena, and I have nothing but good things to say about the place.

 

My wife said if she spoke Spanish would move there in a heartbeat

Yes and there are lots of choices as far as climate, etc. Cartagena is a tropical beach place but I'm more interested in year round mild weather so my interest is the mountainous coffee region. Of course much as I like coffee wine would be better. 

 

Yes speaking some Spanish is necessary but a bit of good news is younger people are studying English. 

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

[GinBoy2]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes and there are lots of choices as far as climate, etc. Cartagena is a tropical beach place but I'm more interested in year round mild weather so my interest is the mountainous coffee region. Of course much as I like coffee wine would be better. 

 

Yes speaking some Spanish is necessary but a bit of good news is younger people are studying English. 

You can get away without speaking Spanish. English is pretty ubiquitous there

[Sambotte]

I'm reconsidering too.

 

The point is everything indicate Thailand does not care any more about expats.

Immigration rules enforced and harder, tourist visa limited and rejections at airport, new rules every year, etc. And some interaction, less friendly or even polite, witch was very rare before in my experience. 

 

It's just business, they are not specially interested in foreign culture mix can we say ????

They don't benefit from other culture, example music, or driving, etc., they could learn from foreigners, but they don't want to, national proudness.

 

Business it is, period ???? And since the business here is Chinese, a turn has been done, it really coincide. They have mass tourism now from China, soon with India, so it's just business, they don't need expats anymore. Or only the more healthy. Could change too, the income from mass tourism is unbeatable. I would say expats are obviously not exactly welcome anymore.

Could be risky though, they will depend entirely from Chineses and maybe Indians. But they are good at diplomacy so...

 

Still many countries are worst. But more few are welcoming expats, and many expats move. 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Sambotte said:

I'm reconsidering too.

 

The point is everything indicate Thailand does not care any more about expats.

Immigration rules enforced and harder, tourist visa limited and rejections at airport, new rules every year, etc. And some interaction, less friendly or even polite, witch was very rare before in my experience. 

 

It's just business, they are not specially interested in foreign culture mix can we say ????

They don't benefit from other culture, example music, or driving, etc., they could learn from foreigners, but they don't want to, national proudness.

 

Business it is, period ???? And since the business here is Chinese, a turn has been done, it really coincide. They have mass tourism now from China, soon with India, so it's just business, they don't need expats anymore. Or only the more healthy. Could change too, the income from mass tourism is unbeatable. I would say expats are obviously not exactly welcome anymore.

Could be risky though, they will depend entirely from Chineses and maybe Indians. But they are good at diplomacy so...

 

Still many countries are worst. But more few are welcoming expats, and many expats move.

Japan and America make up 21% of exports China 15%.  Rich kids go to school in the West not China. 

[Sambotte]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yes and there are lots of choices as far as climate, etc. Cartagena is a tropical beach place but I'm more interested in year round mild weather so my interest is the mountainous coffee region. Of course much as I like coffee wine would be better. 

 

Yes speaking some Spanish is necessary but a bit of good news is younger people are studying English. 

Latin America i have been there, months, two times.

And back in Asia !

In Latin America yes spanish, music, open mind, fiesta, easy contacts everywhere anytime, etc.

BUT 

- Terribly noisy everywhere (like klaxon in Cartagena good luck with that, drives me crazy),

- Hotels way lower standards (small beds, no hot water, in many places even so-called 4 stars booking hotel) ; privacy very low.

- Total misery to rent a condo or a house monthly, no scooter to rent.

- Insecurity

- Very few massages options (i mean massage).

 

Every country has bonus and malus...

And everyone his basic requirements : for me the noise is a no stay, and the extreme difficulty to rent a place and a vehicule monthly, with trust too, is a "difficult to stay when you got use to easy Thailand for that" ????

Hard to have everything ????