New financial regulations for retirees: Nearly a third of expats may have to leave - but half on Facebook say they're off!

[CMNightRider]

55 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

I hear there are groups springing up in rural areas. One is called "Don't take our husbands". They are groups of Thai women, who have foreign husbands who are not rich, and they are all just getting by, doing what they can to make a living, or living on a modest pensions or savings. The women are afraid these requirements may make it far harder for their men to be able to stay here. Perhaps these women can make enough noise, to cause blowback, and embarrassment to this tone deaf, incompetent, xenophobic, coarse, corrupt, cold hearted, non-visionary administration? And it could lead to these morons being put out to pasture, once and for all? Nobody needs the army. They are beyond useless to the nation. So is Prayuth, and especially the fraud, Biggest Joke. 

That is really interesting.  Issan women tend to be a tough group to go up against.  I think this will give immigration leaders something to think about.  This nonsense might not be over yet. ????

[kuma]

On 2/4/2019 at 12:00 PM, geriatrickid said:

Cambodia is a lawless corrupt, brutal place. Go there and you will be treated as a sexual predator or criminal by your home country. Vietanam's shine wears off quickly once you have to deal with the  mind numbing communist bureaucracy and insidious corruption.

This thread exploded fast!

Thailand has the right to run the country in a way they see fit. At last check, they seem to be doing fine - as compared with many other countries in this increasingly crazy world.

The currency issue mentioned earlier is not going to go away that easily imo. The Bhat has become a bit of a regional safe haven and demand for it is high. We need to get used to that for the medium term it seems.

To the point above in the OP - do others here with experience feel the same about Cambo and Nam? I have been to both multiple times while living here in Thailand, and wonder if they are livable or if the points mentioned are the experience of those who live there? And at the same time, what about Laos?

 

[spidermike007]

11 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

That is really interesting.  Issan women tend to be a tough group to go up against.  I think this will give immigration leaders something to think about.  This nonsense might not be over yet. ????

 

Exactly. They may have just simply (simply is the only way immigration, and this hapless administration have of processing thought) figured that some foreigners would be upset, and that would be the end of it. But, it is likely they did not have the vision to consider that tens of thousands of Thai families would be affected by this too. And at 65,000 baht a month, that is probably between 200% to 400% of what alot of Thai families see every month.

 

To call these moves draconian and bone headed, would not even begin to describe what these fools are doing. Their hatred of all things foreign is showing, in a very ugly fashion. It leaves a very bad, bitter, cold, sour, lasting taste in one's mouth and heart. These are some very cold hearted hosts we are dealing with. Of course, I am not referring to most Thai people, who I believe genuinely like foreigners. But, the officials are another animal entirely.

 

This is an administration that is so far past it's expiration date, the stench can be smelt for kilometer, after kilometer. One hopes that in this next election, they will be trounced in a major way. They sure have worked hard to earn that fate. 

[totally thaied up]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I hear there are groups springing up in rural areas. One is called "Don't take our husbands". They are groups of Thai women, who have foreign husbands who are not rich, and they are all just getting by, doing what they can to make a living, or living on a modest pensions or savings.

Are these Facebook Groups my wife could join or just rural groups of friends? My wife would like to know more? So far the rule changes have not affected us that are married and my wife is thinking more for humanitarian reasons as they would get a blowback - my wife said something about the Geneva Convention. Still, you never know what they can do in the future and my wife really does not want to leave Thailand unless for me, push comes to shove and they really change the conditions too much for Marriage Extensions.  

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, totally thaied up said:

Are these Facebook Groups my wife could join or just rural groups of friends? My wife would like to know more? So far the rule changes have not affected us that are married and my wife is thinking more for humanitarian reasons as they would get a blowback - my wife said something about the Geneva Convention. Still, you never know what they can do in the future and my wife really does not want to leave Thailand unless for me, push comes to shove and they really change the conditions too much for Marriage Extensions.  

 

Not sure. A friend mentioned it to me. I believe he saw some groups on Youtube. I will look around and let you know if I find any links. Please do the same. I too am quite interested. This administration deserves all the blowback we and the Thai people can muster up. They have not worn their power gracefully. 

[CMNightRider]

29 minutes ago, HHTel said:

The law changed some years back.  The criteria is the same regardless of gender although it's not easy as suggested:

 

 

When I started reading the criteria it started looking promising until they got down to being fluent in Thai and being able to sing.  Well, so much for that one.  I can safely say the later two stipulations are gigantic obsticals.  Where is that poster who thinks it is easy to become a Thai citizen.   

[ivorsmile]

Pilotman, I made a contribution to Thailand in excess of 5mil Baht, when I was working. To help a Thai family with hospital bills, build them a half decent home,so they didn't have to sleep on a wooden floor that only had a corrugated tin roof and no walls. These people would of been deceased but for someone intervening monetarily. Do the Thai Government give a hoot about foreigners doing good for Thai people? no they don't. My friends now have a thriving poultry business, instead of driving a buffalo with a wooden plough on rented land to try to exist. Unfortunately now I'm a pensioner on a meagre UK., pension I don't now have the required funding to live in Thailand, but hey I have the satisfaction that I have done a lot of good for some Thai people that their own Government don't give a toss about.

 

[55Jay]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:32 AM, webfact said:

7.9% said Yes

22.72% said it would seriously jeopardize their stay

69.38% said they would not have to leave.

 

The breakdown above generally reflects my "gut feeling" about Westerners here, relative to compliance with Immigration requirements. 

 

Majority are Good Guys, some in the middle with a slimmer margin for error, but are still on the up and up.   Minority Bad Guys with or without further, criminal intent, scheming or conspiring to intentionally circumvent host nation Immigration policy.  They, along with the non-Western pool of usual suspects, are ALWAYS the raison d'être for these crack downs and jaded, imprecise policy tightening.  ????

 

[GinBoy2]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Exactly. They may have just simply (simply is the only way immigration, and this hapless administration have of processing thought) figured that some foreigners would be upset, and that would be the end of it. But, it is likely they did not have the vision to consider that tens of thousands of Thai families would be affected by this too. And at 65,000 baht a month, that is probably between 200% to 400% of what alot of Thai families see every month.

 

To call these moves draconian and bone headed, would not even begin to describe what these fools are doing. Their hatred of all things foreign is showing, in a very ugly fashion. It leaves a very bad, bitter, cold, sour, lasting taste in one's mouth and heart. These are some very cold hearted hosts we are dealing with. Of course, I am not referring to most Thai people, who I believe genuinely like foreigners. But, the officials are another animal entirely.

 

This is an administration that is so far past it's expiration date, the stench can be smelt for kilometer, after kilometer. One hopes that in this next election, they will be trounced in a major way. They sure have worked hard to earn that fate. 

The unfortunate dirty rotten truth, is that the xenophobia isn't unique to the current ruling men in green. It's pervasive throughout the entire ruling elite, of which the current regime is just a part.

 

That elite class xenophobia isn't going away regardless of what pseudo election they hold.

[Farrows3399]

34 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

That is really interesting.  Issan women tend to be a tough group to go up against.  I think this will give immigration leaders something to think about.  This nonsense might not be over yet. ????

Especially with an election next month

 

[totally thaied up]

6 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Minority Bad Guys with or without further, criminal intent, scheming or conspiring to intentionally circumvent host nation Immigration policy. 

Us farang get billed with a broad brush. Something horrible happened to one of my wife's friends from a Non-Western Nation and when we spoke to us about what had happened (it was really bad), I got told to my face on Sunday, "You farang are bad". I had to stop to tell her and explain in detail, this person was not a farang (Non-Western) and it took me a long time to explain the differences in cultures. Seems many Thai girls do not differentiate between us and this is, in fact, a problem. 

[CMNightRider]

3 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

I'd consider being fluent in the local language an absolutely essential pre-requisite to becoming a permanent resident let alone being granted citizenship.

 

Actually I'd make it mandatory to be able to read and write it as well.

You don't have to concern yourself with that one.  That is one of Thailands stipulations already along with being able to sing ????

[marcusarelus]

22 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

The unfortunate dirty rotten truth, is that the xenophobia isn't unique to the current ruling men in green. It's pervasive throughout the entire ruling elite, of which the current regime is just a part.

 

That elite class xenophobia isn't going away regardless of what pseudo election they hold.

No it certainly is not.  The President of a certain large nation is xenophobia personified.  Xenophobia is common in many countries.  Korea may be the worst and Japan 2nd.  

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

I'd consider being fluent in the local language an absolutely essential pre-requisite to becoming a permanent resident let alone being granted citizenship.

 

Actually I'd make it mandatory to be able to read and write it as well.

I'd make reading ThaiVisa mandatory and see if the fellow hates the country. 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, how241 said:

When I first arrived in Thailand in 2009, I was very surprised to learn that Thai banks don't do  POD  or allow you to list a beneficiary.  The only thing you can do is make a joint account. Pretty clear that they want to keep your money when you die as they make it VERY hard to get it back.  As Sheryl said,  if you have someone in Thailand that you care about, just leave them the ATM card/pin  or online banking info so they can get the money.  That may not be 100% legal but it should work. Generally I am very positive about the Thai banking system EXCEPT  for this detail. 

Why not do a simple will and register it?  Many topics on ThaiVisa about this issue.

[fruitman]

On 2/4/2019 at 2:16 PM, crazykopite said:

I’m with you on this one it’s not so much about the money it’s all the rule changes year in year out what has always frustrated me is why should there be a different rule if you marry a Thai then you only need 400,000 or 40,000 per month . I have a great 13 years but the time has come to move on once I have sold my property .

Same for us, tired of the silly rules and all the effort to get that visa and stress from it. Also i don't understand the whole issue, my wife also has more than 800k on her bank and we are married...so why all the fuss about my visa to be with her?

 

But they can keep it, we already know where we wanna live and that's not in Thailand.

[SeaBorn13]

I arrived here in 2017 after getting my retirement visa in Los Angeles as I am a US citizen.  I renewed it last year using the Embassy letter as I get over 1,000,000 baht per month in pensions and in 2018 I also transferred 600,000 baht to my Thai bank, which was what I needed for extra expenses. I was going to use the Income affidavit to meet my renewal requirements deficit this year but that is history.  And as my visa renews in March I don't have enough time to make the deposits under the new police order.  I am planning on packing and heading to a more accommodating country where they are appreciative of foreigners.  A Thai friend of mines take on this whole thing is to force the retirees into settling down and obtaining spousal visas as it it too easy for foreigners on retirement visas to up and leave as they have no emotional commitments to the country.. could very well be the truth.  The Land of Smiles is rapidly becoming the Land of Snickers.

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

And I notice that most of these "If you don't like it leave" posters are recent members.  So either they are twisted and malevolent individuals who have been banned and come back under a new name,

 

or

 

they are paid writers employed to generate conflict among members to keep the post count and page view numbers up. 

Might be a simpler explanation, they're still wearing the rose colored glasses, the penny will eventually drop.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Quite lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall about the policies here, or the culture, some guy who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any time, study, or focus on the issue at hand, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or "maybe you should leave", or "it's not fair", or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". 

 

Why? Because I have some issues with the place, I am not entitled to complain, or voice my opinions? Half of the posts on this forum are complaints. What is wrong with that? Don't we need someplace to vent? Why the sensitivity? Why such thin skin? Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful thing to be blessed with, it is not something most of us enjoy. The fact that I complain does not mean I do not love Thailand, my lifestyle, and most of the Thai people. I have a good life here. But, I do have some issues with the place, as most do, and I do not like the government, and there are some things I would like to see improved. Do you not see any room for improvement? I should leave because I complain? 

You have every right to complain, I didn't like the way your complaint was worded.

[sambum]

15 hours ago, pr9spk said:

Thailand only wants people here who can perpetuate their existence.I don't see anything wrong with the administration trying to remove people who cannot even deposit a pathetic 400k into a Thai bank account. I wish the UK did that 60 years ago.

 

They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally, or people who have a very small pension income from their home country.

 

I feel sorry for people who have lived here for years on absolute buttons, but they must have known that they couldn't do that forever. Thailand is a country which takes care of it's populace first, unlike many countries in the West, so these policies were inevitable. Otherwise Bangkok would look like Malmo, which nobody wants.

800,000 baht or 65,000 baht a month is the requirement for a single person. This equates to 20,000 British Pounds, or 1625 pounds a month.

 

First of all, I know that many pensioners (British or otherwise) are living off far less in their home countries.

 

Secondly, what is the minimum wage in Thailand? Last I heard it was about 300 baht a a day. Assuming that a person works a 6 day week, that equates to 6 x 300 x 4 = 7200 baht a month - FAR less than the 65,000 baht a month that they expect ex pats/retirees from other countries to provide proof of receiving.

 

Thirdly, I believe that the Thai Government Pension is 500 baht a month, and even the Police have to buy their own uniforms and motor bikes out of a salary which only just qualifies as 5 figure monthly sum.

 

This makes a nonsense of your statement "Thailand is a country which takes care of it's populace first, unlike many countries in the West".

 

And as for your statement "They are trying to filter out the people who will either leech off of locals or work illegally......" 

I think that they are doing a very poor job of it - penalising the people who have for years not "lived off buttons" but an income/pension MANY times more than your average Thai. The people they SHOULD be penalising are the ones that you mention above, but very few of those fall into the category of the examples that I have mentioned.

 

By all means get rid of the "Bad Guys", but NOT at the expense of the "Good Guys". Of course they are the easiest ones to "catch" - the ones who in the past have followed all the Immigration Rules and Regulations, no matter how petty they seem. The ones who have NOT followed these Rules and Regulations are a bit harder to find, and would mean certain people doing the jobs they are paid to do, instead of taking the easy options all the time.

[kuma]

14 minutes ago, SeaBorn13 said:

I arrived here in 2017 after getting my retirement visa in Los Angeles as I am a US citizen.  I renewed it last year using the Embassy letter as I get over 1,000,000 baht per month in pensions and in 2018 I also transferred 600,000 baht to my Thai bank, which was what I needed for extra expenses. I was going to use the Income affidavit to meet my renewal requirements deficit this year but that is history.  And as my visa renews in March I don't have enough time to make the deposits under the new police order.  I am planning on packing and heading to a more accommodating country where they are appreciative of foreigners.  A Thai friend of mines take on this whole thing is to force the retirees into settling down and obtaining spousal visas as it it too easy for foreigners on retirement visas to up and leave as they have no emotional commitments to the country.. could very well be the truth.  The Land of Smiles is rapidly becoming the Land of Snickers.

Sorry - you receive over 1M THB per MONTH in pension, yet are concerned and not able to put 800,000 in to sit for 90 days, then use as you choose for the next 12 months - topping it back up to 800,000 90 days before your next visa renewal?

You have not been here long so perhaps no real ties to any extent - but if you are here and comfortable then raising stakes to go to a new country over what for you is a piddling transaction (not saying it is for all, but with your cash flow it certainly is) then maybe you need to reflect further...?

[Jingthing]

But why also the Danes

White-ever can you possibly mean?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mngmn]

In my view, leaving just because of this latest change to the visa rules would be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. A more balanced view could be based on a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) for retiring in Thailand.  This is my view.

 

Strengths

Reasonable cost of living

Cheap rent

Good health care

City, country, beach, life styles available

Good base for travel throughout the region

Thai culture

 

Weaknesses

Can't easily work part time to supplement retirement income

Double pricing for foreigners increases cost of living

Poor environmental management

Communication problems

Non-uniform immigration requirements that depend on local 'interpretation' 

Thai culture

 

Opportunities

Can own/build property for a reasonable price

Establish a business for reasonable cost

Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely

Learn Thai language

 

Threats

Future changes to immigration requirements (with compulsory health insurance being the showstopper for many)

Appreciation of the baht against retiree's currency

Rising cost of living

Increasing pollution leading to health problems

Future political instability

 

For me, overall the weaknesses and threats are beginning to outweigh the strengths and opportunities.

 

What do others think?

 

[Toosetinmyways]

The poster was mentioned us aus and brit as no longer doing verifcation Forgot the Danes did ot also.

Nothing to do with being white.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

One hopes that in this next election, they will be trounced in a major way.

They can't be 'trounced'.  They rewrote the constitution to avoid that happening.

Election or no election, the military retain ultimate power.

[icare999]

what a load of BS I very much doubt many at all will leave because of this they might claim they are but probably just all cheap Charlie’s who really don’t have a pot to piss in. If you don’t have an income of 65,000 baht a month then i don’t reckon unless your married to a Thai and have family you should be here. Also if your retired and cant law your hands on 800k baht  baht (still only 20k) or have family ot friends who will lend to you then what if your ill again on caveat if you don’t have health insurance. Its perfectly reasonable for government to insist on a certain amount of money. Anyway if your married (I am but use retirement option because i don’t want hassle) then its only 400,000 (around 10k gbp)

 

Go on flame me but theirs to many low life forang here trying to exist on little. 

While it used to be possible to live ok here on as little as 20-30k baht a month prices have gone up a lot and 800k baht requirement has and is staying same for now around 13-14 years. Would people have preferred they raise it to 1.2 million or more to reflect properly increase in living costs here ? 20 years ago I could live with my thai wife for 30k gbp a month quite well but then petrol was around 12 baht a litre bus fare in Bangkok 3 baht or so rice ½ price etc etc so they probably should have raised it to at least 1.5 million.

 

Visa elite looks attractive now at 500,000 for 5 years or 1 million for 20 years and if I thought id survive 20 years id go for that since it inflation proofs future rises etc and saves a lot of yearly hassle. However ill just pay up since then money will be there for my Thai family.

 

Also 400k can be considered a bond so you have enough to pay for medical although that wont cover very serious illness (my excellent cancer treatment was over 1 million). Id be more concerned about them insisting on medical insurance since I and many at our age simply cant get it.

[GinBoy2]

22 minutes ago, mngmn said:

In my view, leaving just because of this latest change to the visa rules would be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. A more balanced view could be based on a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) for retiring in Thailand.  This is my view.

 

Strengths

Reasonable cost of living

Cheap rent

Good health care

City, country, beach, life styles available

Good base for travel throughout the region

Thai culture

 

Weaknesses

Can't easily work part time to supplement retirement income

Double pricing for foreigners increases cost of living

Poor environmental management

Communication problems

Non-uniform immigration requirements that depend on local 'interpretation' 

Thai culture

 

Opportunities

Can own/build property for a reasonable price

Establish a business for reasonable cost

Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely

Learn Thai language

 

Threats

Future changes to immigration requirements (with compulsory health insurance being the showstopper for many)

Appreciation of the baht against retiree's currency

Rising cost of living

Increasing pollution leading to health problems

Future political instability

 

For me, overall the weaknesses and threats are beginning to outweigh the strengths and opportunities.

 

What do others think?

 

Well good list of assessments

 

Trouble is unless anyone is a psychic, and if you are buy me a lottery ticket, that's part of the problem.

 

I'm one of those that decided to hedge my bets and give up on Thailand full time. We're just snowbirds now.

 

The political climate, attitude to foreigners, it could all change on a dime, as anyone with a brain about Thailand knows.

 

It's not that cheap a place to live anymore, and without that certainty of the future, it becomes tough to commit, especially if for most of us, we are at best in our twilight years

 

 

 

[icare999]

On 4 February 2019 at 11:37 AM, spidermike007 said:

It does appear that this administration, and especially the biggest joke, are trying to do everything in their power to discourage ex-pats from staying here. Does it not? These imbeciles should be making our lives easier, and making visa policy simpler. Rather they seem to be tightening the noose, every chance they get. To call them ignorant, fearful, xenophobic, non-visionary, and misguided would be a vast understatement. Biggest Joke said he would make things easier and simpler. He is doing just the opposite, and barely even disguising his contempt for foreigners. He is the single biggest threat to the ex-pat community right now. 

 

One can only hope that come election time, all of this nonsense will be over, and both Prayuth and especially the biggest joke, will be sent out to pasture for the rest of their lives. They are not doing anything that benefits their nation, and they are picking on good men, who are bringing a lot to the table. Dumb and dumber. What can one say? 

so i guess 20k gbp is to much for you perfectly reasonable to expect ex pats to have enough and it should after all these years be increased to at least 1.5 million 555 i doubt your country will give long term retirment visa without at least 10 times that amount in bank or on so low an income 

[ivor bigun]

what a load of BS I very much doubt many at all will leave because of this they might claim they are but probably just all cheap Charlie’s who really don’t have a pot to piss in. If you don’t have an income of 65,000 baht a month then i don’t reckon unless your married to a Thai and have family you should be here. Also if your retired and cant law your hands on 800k baht  baht (still only 20k) or have family ot friends who will lend to you then what if your ill again on caveat if you don’t have health insurance. Its perfectly reasonable for government to insist on a certain amount of money. Anyway if your married (I am but use retirement option because i don’t want hassle) then its only 400,000 (around 10k gbp)
 
Go on flame me but theirs to many low life forang here trying to exist on little. 
While it used to be possible to live ok here on as little as 20-30k baht a month prices have gone up a lot and 800k baht requirement has and is staying same for now around 13-14 years. Would people have preferred they raise it to 1.2 million or more to reflect properly increase in living costs here ? 20 years ago I could live with my thai wife for 30k gbp a month quite well but then petrol was around 12 baht a litre bus fare in Bangkok 3 baht or so rice ½ price etc etc so they probably should have raised it to at least 1.5 million.
 
Visa elite looks attractive now at 500,000 for 5 years or 1 million for 20 years and if I thought id survive 20 years id go for that since it inflation proofs future rises etc and saves a lot of yearly hassle. However ill just pay up since then money will be there for my Thai family.
 
Also 400k can be considered a bond so you have enough to pay for medical although that wont cover very serious illness (my excellent cancer treatment was over 1 million). Id be more concerned about them insisting on medical insurance since I and many at our age simply cant get it.

Problem is if you use that 400,000 for a medical emergency then you will have not kept it in the bank and you will not get a new visa and be deported.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dcnx]

39 minutes ago, mngmn said:

In my view, leaving just because of this latest change to the visa rules would be a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. A more balanced view could be based on a SWOT (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) for retiring in Thailand.  This is my view.

 

Strengths

Reasonable cost of living

Cheap rent

Good health care

City, country, beach, life styles available

Good base for travel throughout the region

Thai culture

 

Weaknesses

Can't easily work part time to supplement retirement income

Double pricing for foreigners increases cost of living

Poor environmental management

Communication problems

Non-uniform immigration requirements that depend on local 'interpretation' 

Thai culture

 

Opportunities

Can own/build property for a reasonable price

Establish a business for reasonable cost

Live in Thailand but work offshore or remotely

Learn Thai language

 

Threats

Future changes to immigration requirements (with compulsory health insurance being the showstopper for many)

Appreciation of the baht against retiree's currency

Rising cost of living

Increasing pollution leading to health problems

Future political instability

 

For me, overall the weaknesses and threats are beginning to outweigh the strengths and opportunities.

 

What do others think?

 

This is a very rational way to look at it.

 

I’ve always maintained a love / hate relationship with Thailand but the love far outweighed the hate. That has shifted due to many reasons and it’s time to move on. Had a great time, it’s just time to move on. Plus, for the first time the pollution is really doing a number on my health. That alone is enough to make me leave. If I don’t have my health, I have nothing.