New retirement extension rules forces expat, 90, to leave Thailand

[Huckenfell]

13 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Anybody ever considered the 400 K maybe in lieu of trying to enforce compulsory heath insurance? In which case it would actually be a damn good idea as far as the Thai's are concerned.

 

I dont get why the huge backlash, the Thais want a certain "immigrant" standard. We have known this for a couple of years and the hoops required for the bigger visas (OX) are so big, the writing was on the wall that extensions of stay MUST become more difficult to obtain in order for the Thais to achieve the immigration standard they want. 

Seems half of europe, US and Aus (and lest be frank 90% of the posters here are from those areas) is touting heavier immigration controls for their own countries - so why not the Thais?

How many of us come here with 4 wives and 10 kids and then demand a new house and regular social security payments.

[Huckenfell]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a gross distortion.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It's really about how much money that can be squeezed out of us. Just wander around Isaan and see how many Thais have an income of Bht 65000 per month. If an old guy is quietly and comfortably living there on say 45 000 mth., and bothering nobody why should they throw him out. That's 45000 lost to the Thai economy. Multiply that by  couple of thousand and see what the country has gained.

[Huckenfell]

12 hours ago, jonclark said:

Having read these various visa change threads over the past few weeks. The one thing that astounds me it the way those who have the resources to meet these recent changes have turned on those who cannot. 

 

The western expat community should be ashamed by lack of solidarity shown to others who are less fortunate then themselves in their community.  We have a lot to learn from the sizable Chinese and Indian communities which support each other in Thailand. 

 

No wonder immigration can make us jump willingly through so many hoops when we turn on each other at the earliest opportunity. 

 

 

I agree. Sickening are'nt they

[ttrd]

1 hour ago, vinegarbase said:

This is the danger! You can't trust Thailand! Just because you can retire now what is to prevent them from changing the rules later and forcing you to leave? The only place people should be considering retiring long term is places that can offer you permanent residency otherwise you are just on a potential long term vacation. Please consider Panama while it is still an option, relatively easy and cheap to immigration. Pension visa's are $1000/month to qualify or you can go the permanent residency route for about $8,000 USD https://www.joyful-feet.com I did mine years ago here when I realized that Thailand was a pipedream and nothing more than a good place to have a vacation or in my case a place I must come to for business. Thai immigration will always be a sword hanging over your head. 

 

People need to keep hearing this because if this guy can get kicked out at 90 who is to say you are not next on the list from the next changes that may come?

RE - Please consider Panama

 

Those who selected Thailand chose it for a reason - a reason which Panama obviously does't offer ....

 

Panama has the following to offer:

 

 

Diseases

While the most common illness that may affect you is traveler’s diarrhea, there are a number of other diseases you should be aware of when living in Panama. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends that all travelers are up to date on routine vaccines (measles-mumps-rubella, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis, varicella, polio and flu), plus hepatitis A and typhoid vaccines for most travelers. Depending on how long you’re staying and what you’re doing, you may also need vaccines against hepatitis B and malaria, and rabies and/or yellow fever in rare cases. 

 

No vaccine currently exists for the Zika virus, which was recently reported in Panama. Spread by mosquitos, Zika is believed to cause the birth defect microcephaly in babies whose mothers were infected with Zika while pregnant and has been linked to a rare paralysis condition called Guillain-Barré syndrome.

 

Service at a Different Pace

As in many countries, life in Panama moves at a different pace than you may be accustomed to, and that goes for services. If you’re in a hurry to receive a particular service (say you need a new set of prescription glasses), be aware that those assisting you may not see as much urgency in the situation. Delays are fairly normal, and it’s helpful to understand from the get-go that “mañana” doesn’t usually mean tomorrow, as you might expect – it just means not today.

 

Driving

The roads have gotten better over the years, but many expats still find driving in certain parts of Panama stressful, if not downright harrowing. Driving conventions are similar to those in the U.S. – you drive on the right side of the road, traffic rules are similar – but traffic jams in cities and the potholes and general lack of signage in rural areas can make driving tricky. It’s important to understand that horns and hand signals are how drivers communicate with one another (not turn signals), and that arm waving doesn’t necessarily mean someone is angry with you. Heavy rains can lead to landslides, which can temporarily close roads or, in extreme cases, wipe them out completely.

 

Re - People need to keep hearing this because if this guy can get kicked out at 90 who is to say you are not next on the list from the next changes that may come?

 

... first when you pass 90 and cant afford a health insurance....

[Huckenfell]

12 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said:

Two options.  Both simple.  If you can't meet one or the other, then you shouldn't be here in the first place. Well I Can't meet either,So Should I Just " Go Back " HOME " & Leave my THAI Wife of 26 Years in the Rice Fields ????? "

This is one of the big problems that they are going to create, it is so inhuman.

[SheungWan]

25 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

It's really about how much money that can be squeezed out of us. Just wander around Isaan and see how many Thais have an income of Bht 65000 per month. If an old guy is quietly and comfortably living there on say 45 000 mth., and bothering nobody why should they throw him out. That's 45000 lost to the Thai economy. Multiply that by  couple of thousand and see what the country has gained.

You may be right, but it is beside the point. Either one adjusts or one does not. Some will and some will not.

[Huckenfell]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

 That's just a lie (see #95).

Thailand now has one of the most expensive VISA requirements in SEA.

 

It's not enough for you as a 'boaster and gloater' to look down on everyone else, but you need to lie as well!

What's wrong with you?

Well said BritMan.   who would like him as a neighbour.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, crazykopite said:

They call it the Land of smiles because they want your money and the latest ruling by the immigration burea verifies this by tying your money up for months on end I to will be following Don I have the money but I am sick and tired that year in year out immigration changes the requirements for us retirees who help the Thai economy by spending our money within the local community it is those Thai businesses that will feel the loss of income not those in Government. ☹️

So where are you going then? I read elsewhere on this thread Panama is the latest go-to Shangri-La.

[Patriot1066]

15 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Without more details, this article is just worthless 

Everyone on Retirement Extension today was supposed to already have 65k/monthly or 800k in bank,

so why exactly can't he stay anymore after these rather small changes in rules ? 

Yes it is also are these people actually saying they broke the rules, now they are enforced it’s unfair? If you have the funds you are supposed to have it shouldn’t be an issue to stay should it? 

 

In actual fact if the 65, 400 800k were linked to inflation then there would be more and more people who couldn’t stay, as it is the amounts have in real terms reduced each year so actually more people should have an honest opportunity to stay?

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

When he retired 25 years ago on what then seemed a reasonable pension, he would be able to live on it.

Flash forward that time and factor in inflation and it could well be a pittance now.

Well that might depend on whether the pension is index-linked. 

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Median gross earnings in the UK is listed as 22,000 pounds, that will make median take home pay in the region of 17,000 pounds.

Right. And Mr Median spends his retirement in Thailand.

[Huckenfell]

12 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Some of you seem to think I don't care about the people who can't meet the requirements, and nothing could be further from the truth.  I am very sympathetic to their plight, and feel sorry for most of them.  Some have been here for years and have families that they may be forced to abandon, and no one really wants to see that happen, least of all, me.  

 

But the bottom line is: it's their country, and they make the rules.  If someone can't abide by those rules, or live within them, then they will have little to no choice but to leave, sad as that may be.  

 

Personally, I have a good friend who has lied about his income for over 10 years, and now it's going to bite him in the butt and force him out.  I hate to see him go, but he knew the possible consequences when he started playing the game.  

But because you are "OK Jack"  you could'nt give a shit.

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, StevieAus said:

We visited the UK last July arriving via Manchester at 10 pm all of us on Aus passports.

There was one IO processing non EU passport holders we waited two and a half hours and people on this site complain about Thai Immigration

Which bright Aussie thought it was a smart idea to fly to Manchester?

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, MuuKondiao said:

.... to say nothing of the fact that the "old" country will be an alien culture to you. The things you may remember from the past will have been torn down and replaced and the demographics will have change, with many new foreigners living in the old country and the young people with their new music and new words and no respect for the aged and the government having no more regard for you than for any non-resident. Like being a refugee in you rown country. Not something I look forward to with with confidence.

The Clockwork Orange scenario.

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

But because you are "OK Jack"  you could'nt give a shit.

What difference does it make? Unless Scottish and then it would be OK Jock..

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes it is also are these people actually saying they broke the rules, now they are enforced it’s unfair? If you have the funds you are supposed to have it shouldn’t be an issue to stay should it? 

In actual fact if the 65, 400 800k were linked to inflation then there would be more and more people who couldn’t stay, as it is the amounts have in real terms reduced each year so actually more people should have an honest opportunity to stay?

What it boils down to in many cases, is that the money actually is there but the individuals do not want to liquidate any investments to generate the necessary cash. Not that many of them touched it anyway. Either the capital or the interest. They just wanted to see it grow. Well some will do what is necessary and some will not and retreat home to watch over their pot. 

[Huckenfell]

12 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Ok, ok, American CONSULATE.  Happy now? 

Lucky he told you, is'nt it.

[KneeDeep]

3 hours ago, elliss said:

  Welcome  to  the  friendship  forum , for ex pats , 

   Every faralang for themselves , in LOS , sad but true.

 

 

Not everyone, but I most certainly understand what you mean. 

[sambum]

9 hours ago, Danthai said:

Your right! I believe there were 3 changes by end of January if you include Big Jokes request for leniency in 2019 until filers in 2020. 

Yes, Big Joke's request for leniency was fuelled by the fact that it was impossible for some people to supply evidence of having 12 months of transfers into their bank accounts within the time scale requested.

 

The other thing that "sticks in the craw' is that he said he was going to make it easier for ex pats/retirees to get extensions/visas to stay in Thailand and then literally overnight proposes to make it even more difficult by stating that the funds that are to be deposited into a Thai bank 2 months prior to the date of the request for an extension (and left untouched) have now to be left untouched for a further 3 months AFTER the extension! 

 

This shows how sincere the man is about "making things easier"!  

 

 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Well that might depend on whether the pension is index-linked. 

And also the fact that UK pensions are "frozen" for people that retire to Thailand!

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

so this is the straw that broke his back? the requirement to

keep 800K for three months more? he survived

here until 90 YO and now, when they asked him to keep

the 800K for three months more, he can't stay anymore?

must go home when he is 90 and work as a dishwasher

to make ends meet....until he can save again another 800K,

and 5 months living expenses (two months before and three months after

the day his new visa extention will be given).

[sambum]

4 hours ago, dontoearth said:

    It would require the honest release of visa numbers. Not sure they would ever do that.  I think this present system is going to lose them new retirement visa applicants, I would assume 100,000's will go and that would be in line with what TVF has been reporting the last few years.  The decline will be steeper when new people stop showing up. 

     The steep decline will be obvious in 1 or 2 years.  Right now the 'powers that be' will shrug their shoulders and say they have gotten bad guys out that were not following the rules.  They may not get good guys in however!  In the short term it is a win for them in terms of publicity.  Then it will be a crisis that Thai Tourism Authority needs to deal with when the complaints start from Thai businesses wondering why their retired foreign customers have disappeared. 

     The fact the deposit is not guaranteed and there are not any assurances of what would happen to the deposit when you die makes this high risk banking.  I am not interested.  I have told most thai friends at best I will come for a less than 30 day visa exempt holiday to get around and have dinners and visit.  I am not going to stay the winters anymore and not going to live here the 9 to 10 months of the year as i did for quite a few  years.  

      I am very well off but not a millionaire but close!  I do feel sorry for the little hotel I used to stay at in bkk.  They had 20 rooms of their 66 rooms long term rented for retirees.  Now they have none.  When i lived there last year it was down to me and an australian and he was being given fits by immigration. He went to Melbourne since he is well off and got the consulate to renew everything after several different day long hassles at Cheng Wattna.  He had lived here 22 years.  He also bought a nice retirement condo and business in Melbourne.  So he was planning to end his living in Thailand because of the immigration hassle.  Every year more people have left and just not returned.  And new ones did not seem to be coming.  It seems most of this is directed at the poor and working thai who will find it harder to make a living if they worked in a service industry that had lots of retiree customers.  No smirks!  I am talking restaurants and legit bars and tour companies small boutique hotels.   And I think the govt wants  it that way.

      The dream of the govt to have RICH RICH tourist just throwing money in the air seems to be a recurring theme with the govt. here.  HIgh Quality Tourist.  And they do have some but not enough to power the tourist economy. 

Good post but:-

 

"Then it will be a crisis that Thai Tourism Authority needs to deal with when the complaints start from Thai businesses wondering why their retired foreign customers have disappeared."

 

It's never been a problem for then before - just say that the tourist figures are up 12% from the previous month! And if someone at the front line says "Well where are all these extra tourists?" just say "They are all in Esan experiencing the "proper" Thailand" or, "I borrowed these watches from a friend - sorry he can't confirm that - he's dead" 

 

And when they can't bluff their way out of it any more, they can always blame the previous administration - Ooops, sorry, I forgot where I was for a moment - the previous administration will be the current administration after the Election, as Article 44 will be held up high! 

[sambum]

15 minutes ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

so this is the straw that broke his back? the requirement to

keep 800K for three months more? he survived

here until 90 YO and now, when they asked him to keep

the 800K for three months more, he can't stay anymore?

must go home when he is 90 and work as a dishwasher

to make ends meet....until he can save again another 800K,

and 5 months living expenses (two months before and three months after

the day his new visa extention will be given).

Maybe he's just peed off about the fact that every week there is another hoop to jump through?

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

I feel sorry for him ,but i abide by the rules, i got the money in the bank,and if things change again,I'll have to jump,be it higher or lower.

Maybe he's just peed off about the fact that every week there is another hoop to jump through?

Sent from my CPH1725 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Time Traveller]

16 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I simply don't understand what the problem seems to be.
a)  Show an income of 65k a month;

or

b) 800k in the bank.

 

Two options.  Both simple.  If you can't meet one or the other, then you shouldn't be here in the first place. 

 

Keep in mind, it's THEIR country.  THEY make the rules.  We either live by them, or we don't live here.  

I think their complaint is that it's no longer just 800k in the bank. It's 800k that you can't access all year. Which in my view is a very reasonable complaint. Because the money belongs to the owner, and should be able to be used for whatever the owner wants or needs. Isn't that that the point of having to show money in the bank? 

Also, Many people get annual payments (instead of monthly) that could be used to top up accounts.

[ubon farang]

I just don't understand this letter from Don. If you are on a marriage visa you need 400,000 baht in the bank. Ok If you are on a Retiree Visa you need 800,000 baht in the bank Nothing has changed much at all. Hate to disappoint you Don but I went home after 5 years to my home country and the town I lived in I was like a stranger starting all over again Nobody hardly knew me and then I knew this was not for me I live in Thailand and this is my home now That is the choice I made. I can see what the government is trying to do They are trying to stop these so-called agencies from getting these visas illegally and charging outrage fees. Maybe some corrupt officials in the government tried to get their fingers into the pie in this money making business and when they could not they decide to drive them out of business. I was offered  a marriage visa by some firm in Bangkok for a 40,000 fee I said No thanks I can get it myself and I did I have no intention of going home and at 90 Don I think you will get a surprise if you go home  Like "Who are you mate" Yes it would be interesting who writes these sad stories Maybe the business that are getting these visas and charging through the nose for them

[garyk]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

I think their complaint is that it's no longer just 800k in the bank. It's 800k that you can't access all year. Which in my view is a very reasonable complaint. Because the money belongs to the owner, and should be able to be used for whatever the owner wants or needs. Isn't that that the point of having to show money in the bank? 

Also, Many people get annual payments (instead of monthly) that could be used to top up accounts.

Get off plane. Hand over all assets. 

Yea, that is the plan... haha

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, sambum said:

And also the fact that UK pensions are "frozen" for people that retire to Thailand!

That is State Pension, not Private Pensions.

[bkk6060]

I suggest that all who have to leave or are planning on leaving please go soon.

With this, please report it to the media, TI, and TV so the public at large knows about it.

Then, maybe with all the exodus they will ease up and some changes will take place.

If not, those of us that are happy here and can adapt to minor rule changes and afford to stay will continue to hold down the fort.

Thanks and good luck.

Edited February 6, 2019 by bkk6060

[kannot]

8 hours ago, Burma Man said:

Does anyone ever think of having to extend your retirement visa at the age of for example 85 or 90 or 95 when you are most likely to lay bed-ridden ? Even after 10 years or 20 years living in Thailand you will not get permanent residency meaning you will have to renew it until the last day of your life , or , end up in immigration cells.  

Or you could buy an elite  visa if still available at age 80, odds  on u wont make it to 100, that my plan anyway