The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[Moon37]

On 2/11/2019 at 6:10 PM, skatewash said:

You can use ACH to the Bangkok Bank New York Branch up until 1 April 2019. 

 

Thereafter you could use SWIFT to transfer the money directly from your US bank to your Thai bank.  This would likely result in the money being received in your Thai Bangkok Bank branch with a transaction code of FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer) which marks it as an international transfer.  Generally, there's a flat fee to do this from the US bank side ($0-50) and a sliding fee on the Thai side (200-500 baht).  You will get the Bangkok Bank TT buying exchange rate which is the same as you have been getting with the ACH to BB's NY Branch.

 

You can look into alternative US banks (or brokerages) that offer cheaper SWIFT transfers such as Fidelity ($0) and Vanguard ($10) for people with accounts at those companies.

 

You can use TransferWise to transfer the money from your US bank to your Thai Bank.  Mostly Bangkok Bank will record the transaction as an FTT (same as for a swift), but that's not guaranteed and it could have some other designation that would not necessarily indicate that it was an international transfer.  The exchange rate is very good (mid-market rate) but there is a fee imposed by TW that is partly based on a percentage of the funds transferred.

 

If you are thinking of doing this transfer to satisfy the new monthly deposit method (what has replaced the embassy letter method for the embassies that have stopped issuing those letters) then the ACH and SWIFT transfers above should work well.  The TransferWise transfers can't be guaranteed to be marked as international transfers in your Bangkok Bank passbook and therefore are problematic for demonstrating that you have international transfers every month.  No one knows at this point how important that will be to immigration when you go to get your extension of stay.

Skate et al,  THank you for the vectors,  I looked up USAA and they were advertising that they were NOT doing SWIFT or IAT etc.  Bank of America was much more accommodating. Since I am already using it now for the BB NYC BKK method, they said just to go to the international transfer page, enter their SWIFT/BIC code, account code to whom with address etc, amount and press the button on my Safe Pass Code card I have and add $38.  I going to give it a dry run this week and see how the code shows up.    I also talked to Ms Geroge at BB NYC and said I was going to do the same with her, as all she cares about is that the recieiver's  Name and Thai address is on the transfer and see if it works.   As long as I can get funds into Thailand, I'm good.  I have the DFAS, SS, and DVA letters I got on-line with E-Benfits, MyPay, and the SS site.   So all my income is pooled into the same account.

NOTE: Sadly, I looked up the average monthly Social Security payment and the Average is about 20-25% short of the $2100 (65,000 THB).  If you use the IAT once a month, you'd have to augment it with methods described above:  

 

Moon

[balo]

Just use an agent , and pay the fees , will probably be more than 15k next year.

Still much better than following the crazy rules. 

 

 

 

[HHTel]

2 hours ago, balo said:

Just use an agent , and pay the fees , will probably be more than 15k next year.

Still much better than following the crazy rules. 

 

 

 

We'll see.  This from Big Joke:

 

Quote

Surachate also vowed to go after all agents and their customers nationwide involved in procuring visa extensions with fake documents. 

 

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, billsmart said:

Is there anyone out there with an O-A visa who, prior to 2019, used a letter from your bank and your bank book to satisfy the monthly income (pension) requirement for a stay extension based on RETIREMENT?

 

I certainly used a bank letter and my bank book (and copies of previous 3 months) to renew my extension in December 2018. My previous extensions going back over 10 years all originate from a Non-Imm-O multiple which of course has long time expired, but the permission to stay from it has been extended. 

I do not believe it makes any difference whatsoever if the original starting visa is a Non-Imm-O or OA. 

[Henryford]

13 hours ago, billsmart said:

Jacko45k, That is the crux of the disagreements/confusion here. 

I was told that for an extension based on retirement beginning in 2019, only an embassy letter would suffice for proving monthly income (pension). BUT, I was also told that AS AN EXCEPTION FOR 2019 ONLY, to help with the transition to these new rules, that IO will accept a letter from your bank showing monthly, international transfers. BUT, that exemption will cease in 2020, and after that, ONLY a letter from your embassy will suffice for proof of monthly income (pension).

Many (most) on this forum dispute that and believe I was given wrong information and this method of proof of monthly income will continue to be accepted 2020 and beyond. That is definitely not what I was told, and others were told that too.

The issue is still "up in the air" as far as many are concerned. As for me, I'll just have to go on what my local IO tells me. After all, it is they that I will have to deal with for my extensions. 

So if you come from the UK where the Embassy won't issue a letter is the income method useless for 2020 and beyond. I have a Government pension confirmed in an official letter but i guess that is unacceptable as it is not from an Embassy.

[pmarlin]

17 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What kind of extension? 

*00,000 baht has to be retirement.

[pmarlin]

11 hours ago, Moon37 said:

Skate et al,  THank you for the vectors,  I looked up USAA and they were advertising that they were NOT doing SWIFT or IAT etc.  Bank of America was much more accommodating. Since I am already using it now for the BB NYC BKK method, they said just to go to the international transfer page, enter their SWIFT/BIC code, account code to whom with address etc, amount and press the button on my Safe Pass Code card I have and add $38.  I going to give it a dry run this week and see how the code shows up.    I also talked to Ms Geroge at BB NYC and said I was going to do the same with her, as all she cares about is that the recieiver's  Name and Thai address is on the transfer and see if it works.   As long as I can get funds into Thailand, I'm good.  I have the DFAS, SS, and DVA letters I got on-line with E-Benfits, MyPay, and the SS site.   So all my income is pooled into the same account.

NOTE: Sadly, I looked up the average monthly Social Security payment and the Average is about 20-25% short of the $2100 (65,000 THB).  If you use the IAT once a month, you'd have to augment it with methods described above:  

 

Moon

Same situation for me . Been using ACH transfers fro BofA for several years. Last weekend I set up a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank as a test . Sent $1000 cast me $45 and arrived last Monday as a FTT .  Question are to talking about a SWIFT to the Bangkok Bank New York Branch if so what is the SWIFT code. What I am going to miss is that I will have to do a transfer like this  each month while using the going away ACH i had a monthly payment set up.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, HHTel said:

We'll see.  This from Big Joke:

Quote

Surachate also vowed to go after all agents and their customers nationwide involved in procuring visa extensions with fake documents. 

 

From how posters have reported the methods of the big-name agents, "fake-docs" are not part of the scheme.  The bank-letter they get is real, but the seasoning is not checked.  All the new rules added was more seasoning which can likewise be ignored for agents (only).

 

There were some "fake docs" agents busted for helping people from low-wage countries fake a reason for staying (fake tax-docs, fake-marriages, etc) - and some IOs working with them.  It would appear these IOs were working a side-deal, which did not include distribution of the loot up the chain of command to provide cover.

 

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

So if you come from the UK where the Embassy won't issue a letter is the income method useless for 2020 and beyond. I have a Government pension confirmed in an official letter but i guess that is unacceptable as it is not from an Embassy. 

According to what is published, you would need your income being transferred into a Thai bank to continue qualifying.  Some immigration-offices may also want secondary-proof of the source of your income, for which you could use your pension-letter - but the primary evidence are the deposits. 

 

One report from one office claims the "show money transfers" method will go-away in 2020, but this has not been confirmed beyond that one report.  The "new rules" for showing income this way, for those who can no longer obtain embassy-letters, do not have an end-date.

[pmarlin]

27 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

Same situation for me . Been using ACH transfers fro BofA for several years. Last weekend I set up a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank as a test . Sent $1000 cast me $45 and arrived last Monday as a FTT .  Question are to talking about a SWIFT to the Bangkok Bank New York Branch if so what is the SWIFT code. What I am going to miss is that I will have to do a transfer like this  each month while using the going away ACH i had a monthly payment set up.

Never mind just tried to do a swift to BBNY using the SWIFT  BKKBUS33XXX and will only let me do domestic SWIFT and no where to enter the needed Thai address for the receiver. Will have to this monthly and pay the high transfer fees.This was using BofA,

[Pib]

13 hours ago, Moon37 said:

I looked up USAA and they were advertising that they were NOT doing SWIFT or IAT etc. 

USAA does not do ACH "IAT" but they certainly do International Wires (i.e., SWIFT).  A USAA Int'l Wire costs $45.  A domestic wire $20.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, pmarlin said:

Never mind just tried to do a swift to BBNY using the SWIFT  BKKBUS33XXX and will only let me do domestic SWIFT and no where to enter the needed Thai address for the receiver. Will have to this monthly and pay the high transfer fees.This was using BofA,

Yea....that would have been too easy.  And even if your particular sending bank had allowed a domestic SWIFT entry format where you could have entered the receiver's address I bet Bangkok Bank "New York" will not accept a domestic wire using SWIFT code BKKBU33XXX "for relay onto your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account come 1 Apr 19."   Above mentioned SWIFT code is really for customers who have accounts at the NY branch....a branch which serves cooperate/commercial accounts, not retail accounts.   

 

But hey, maybe some folks will be successful in using above SWIFT code before "and after" 1 Apr to transfer money into the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account.  I think I saw a post or two already in other threads where people said the BKKBU33XXX code worked for them....maybe their sending bank/money transfer service allowed it to be used/sent.  But come 1 Apr 19 wouldn't be betting the farm on it as that seems to the date that Bangkok Bank can no longer have a "liberal" policy in how it can relay money to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account.

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, pmarlin said:

Never mind just tried to do a swift to BBNY using the SWIFT  BKKBUS33XXX and will only let me do domestic SWIFT and no where to enter the needed Thai address for the receiver. Will have to this monthly and pay the high transfer fees.This was using BofA,

if you send a swift to BBNY as the destination, it ends there.  they are no longer doing the internal routing to thailand.  i would guess they are doing the same thing as transferwise.....accepting funds at a bank in country A, and distributing funds in country B, as they have branches in both countries.

 

you could use BBNY as a correspondent bank if needed, but you're back to doing an international transfer.

[billsmart]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I certainly used a bank letter and my bank book (and copies of previous 3 months) to renew my extension in December 2018. My previous extensions going back over 10 years all originate from a Non-Imm-O multiple which of course has long time expired, but the permission to stay from it has been extended. 

I do not believe it makes any difference whatsoever if the original starting visa is a Non-Imm-O or OA. 

Was this bank letter and bank book to verify your BALANCE (800K or 400K) or was it to verify your MONTHLY INCOME?

[billsmart]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

So if you come from the UK where the Embassy won't issue a letter is the income method useless for 2020 and beyond. I have a Government pension confirmed in an official letter but i guess that is unacceptable as it is not from an Embassy.

That's what I (and others) have been told by my local (Phetchabun) IO, but many (most) on this forum dispute that.

I'd say right now, that's still not known for sure, but certainly is a possibility that needs more validating.

[balo]

12 hours ago, HHTel said:

We'll see.  This from Big Joke:

 

Quote

Surachate also vowed to go after all agents and their customers nationwide involved in procuring visa extensions with fake documents. 

 

Yes there are bad agents and there are good agents.  The good agents works closely with the top immigration officials, they are not faking any documents.   

The banks will issue the letter , stamped and approved by IO. 

It's all about the 800k really, you borrow it legally, but only for a few hours. 

 

In the end it is the top immigration people who decides if they will accept your extension or not. 

 

[granuaile]

Made it through this thread, which I found looking for information on the validity period of embassy affidavits, since I got my affidavit at the end of October. 

First just want to say thanks especially to Billsmart for sharing this, and to TallGuyJohninBKK and Ubonjoe for their contributions here, as always very useful.

I'm already planning to leave in June, nothing to do with the rule changes, I was considering that before hand, though was considering keeping my retirement visa and spending 3+ months here each year, now a tourist visa looks better, and I was planning to spend much/most of 2020 in Ireland, Scotland, and Northern England, and Sweden and Norway, so right now being a 2020 gypsy is looking pretty good.

I'll be heading to immigration this month since my current stay will expire early next month. Have my affidavit and original documents from my state pension plan and Social Security as backup - a little bit of a discrepancy since I received a $50 raise in Social Security for 2019, but hoping the documents I used for my affidavit will suffice. I'll post back here how the extension goes and if I'm given any documents for future reference...

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

Was this bank letter and bank book to verify your BALANCE (800K or 400K) or was it to verify your MONTHLY INCOME?

No, sorry, balance. I did not read fully. But to your question, in the past an Embassy letter was obligatory, further in the past any old income proof seemed OK!

[tropo]

On 2/10/2019 at 12:31 PM, Sheryl said:

We have been through this ad nauseum on other threads. It shows as an international transfer if your bank is the bank they used for the transfer - they use a total of 3 different Thai banks and currently seem to use Bangkok Bank far more often than the other 2. But not always, and there have been posters who report an occasional transfer to their BB account appearing as a domestic transfer.

 

If  TW uses a bank other than yours, the bank that first receives it will do a domestic transfer to your bank and that, obviously, will show as a domestic transfer.

 

I personally emailed TW about this and they informed me that they might use any of 3 Thai banks and that they cannot say (and customers cannot choose) in advance which one it will be.

 

I would be cautious about continuing to use TW for the income method of extension and assuming that because your account is with BB it will always show as FTT.  This is not guaranteed. At present it will show as FTT most of the time but sooner or later you will get a transfer or two that does not.

 

 

I did a Citibank International transfer last money to K-Bank. I sent THB and it shows as a domestic transfer, so this is a problem with all banks if people send baht and not just a TW problem. The THB transfer would have gone through a correspondent bank and then on to my bank as a domestic transfer. 

 

Why did I convert to THB at my home bank (Australia)? Well, I thought I got a good rate until I saw my bank statement later with a $44 AUD correspondent bank charge that I didn't expect. Note to self: never send baht.

Edited February 13, 2019 by tropo

[DepDavid]

Thanks for your information and tips.
 
Before now, I have been using Transferwise, and it shows up in my bank book as a domestic transfer from an account at Thai Military Bank. At the end of this week, I will get my SS deposit in my BofA account in California. I am then going to try to transfer it directly to my Krungsri/Ahudyha account using online banking and BofA's international wire transfer based on my bank's SWIFT code. When it arrives, I will then see if it shows up as an international transfer or not.
 
If that works, great. I'm not yet home free on it, but I won't go into detail of what other hurdles I'd have to jump to perform this type of transaction on BofA's online banking here every month. I think I've got that figured out - if this works.
 
If it doesn't, I have some other alternatives lined up, including making sure I have the right amount of money deposited in the bank before my stay extension is due next December.

Bill I did the same with Chase just yesterday. It shows up as BAHTNET which is through bank of Thailand. I did a domestic wire transfer from Chase to BKKNY and am still waiting for it to post.

I understand that with transferwise you can go to the activities menus and print each of your transfers. Maybe they show as international and you can print that to support the bank book. I don’t have an account yet but will be setting one up shortly.



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[RPCVguy]

It took me a few days to get through the numerous posts. I still resent the idea of agents skirting the rules - causing the authorities to make yet new rules to filter out those who might become a financial burden. The fellow expats who've been here and brought cash into the nation, married, supported extended family, likely helped youth through schools have been a net contribution to their local community. Now we'll need to be more conservative for ourselves so as to prepare yet better for the rainy day needs that accumulate as we age. The fortunate among us have the 800K in the bank and a pension stream to cover monthly expenditures. I'd always been able to avoid monthly transfers (prefer 2 or 3 months at a time so as to minimize wire transfer fees.) 11½ years of regular transfers and a constant balance over the 800K felt solid. It was enough to cover major dental work, one surgery and a series of major tests at a private hospital - out of pocket, even put the youngest step-daughter through to earning her BA at a private university.

Reading through the concerns of others I wonder though for the many who've also done good for their community, done so for many years, and now are at risk of being denied an extension, of being separated from the families they've become part of, and then what? Being sent to their nation of citizenship where they have no home, maybe where most of their friends have moved or already died off? I know of similar being done to Mexicans and others in the USA - as well as to DACA youth who don't even know the language or customs of the places their parents left. In the USA there is at least an argument among citizens as to the humanity of such treatment, the morality of it. It is a topic of Christian and political debate. What though of the morality as seen or discussed in Thailand? How would Buddha view the situation? Is that even a topic of discussion?? Many people here are deemed of value to their families and community, they add financial and technical wealth - yet a few months of medical bills or such can temporarily disqualify them from continuing here.

As others have noted, the interpretation of the rules is regularly different from day-to-day, office-to-office. Will bank deposits of every other month showing an average for the year ever qualify for a combination method with 400K or more in the fixed account?? Add in being of a nation whose consulate will no longer certify pensions... 
I hope it will be many years yet again before I'm forced to face those questions. My thoughts are with those who played fair by the old rules but are being squeezed out by this tightening.

 

[DepDavid]

I have a general question for anyone who cares to respond.
 
Is there anyone out there with an O-A visa who, prior to 2019, used a letter from your bank and your bank book to satisfy the monthly income (pension) requirement for a stay extension based on RETIREMENT?
 
Is there anyone out there with an O-A visa who, prior to 2019, used a letter from your bank and your bank book to satisfy the monthly income requirement for a stay extension based on MARRIAGE or GUARDIAN?
 
Thanks...Bill!
 

Nope!


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[DepDavid]

Never mind just tried to do a swift to BBNY using the SWIFT  BKKBUS33XXX and will only let me do domestic SWIFT and no where to enter the needed Thai address for the receiver. Will have to this monthly and pay the high transfer fees.This was using BofA,

Do a domestic wire to BKKNY using the routing number and your address and account info in Thailand. I did the same with Chase yesterday and am awaiting results!


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[DepDavid]

I did a Citibank International transfer last money to K-Bank. I sent THB and it shows as a domestic transfer, so this is a problem with all banks if people send baht and not just a TW problem. The THB transfer would have gone through a correspondent bank and then on to my bank as a domestic transfer. 
 
Why did I convert to THB at my home bank (Australia)? Well, I thought I got a good rate until I saw my bank statement later with a $44 AUD correspondent bank charge that I didn't expect. Note to self: never send baht.

Yes and my bank converted at .5 baht per dollar less than TT rate. Then there was another 100 baht taken here and it showed up as domestic.

If you send an email to BKKNY help desk they will send you a form letter which is a copy of what is on their website.

They will forward funds here which are sent to them domestically by wire. If you convert to baht first the fee is much higher.


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[DepDavid]

Yes and my bank converted at .5 baht per dollar less than TT rate. Then there was another 100 baht taken here and it showed up as domestic.

If you send an email to BKKNY help desk they will send you a form letter which is a copy of what is on their website.

They will forward funds here which are sent to them domestically by wire. If you convert to baht first the fee is much higher.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Ok. The domestic transfer came through already and I’m 262 baht better off having done $200 wire using BKKNY and global wire through my bank. So it seems domestic wire to BKKNY might be best for me because I don’t want to have problems with it showing up here as domestic transfer.


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[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, RPCVguy said:

I still resent the idea of agents skirting the rules - causing the authorities to make yet new rules to filter out those who might become a financial burden.

It would appear that this is not why the authorities change the rules - at all.  If anything, the reverse.  If they really wanted to stop the agents skirting the rules, with IO's help, they would arrest and interrogate the agents, to make plea-deals to ID the IOs, then do the same to those IOs, right up the chain to the top.  That is the only way organized crime is ever stopped. 

 

The only problem is, who is above the scheme to do it?  Given the new rules won't impede agent-activity, and the big name agents aren't in jail right now, no one of consequence, apparently.

 

1 hour ago, RPCVguy said:

The fellow expats who've been here and brought cash into the nation, married, supported extended family, likely helped youth through schools have been a net contribution to their local community.

From where I am sitting, it appears those making the rules very much resent all that good we do.  Maybe they resent it that someone might be thankful to a foreigner for such.  Their policies seem intended to minimize this activity.

 

1 hour ago, RPCVguy said:

Reading through the concerns of others I wonder though for the many who've also done good for their community, done so for many years, and now are at risk of being denied an extension, of being separated from the families they've become part of, and then what? Being sent to their nation of citizenship where they have no home, maybe where most of their friends have moved or already died off?

No, we have foreign-sourced income-streams, so can choose any of the nations who welcome those with their own money to spend.

 

1 hour ago, RPCVguy said:

I know of similar being done to Mexicans and others in the USA - as well as to DACA youth who don't even know the language or customs of the places their parents left. In the USA there is at least an argument among citizens as to the humanity of such treatment, the morality of it. It is a topic of Christian and political debate.

All of those being deported entered or remained in the country illegally and took jobs from citizens illegally, using fake federal documents to do so.  That's a felony which you or I would go to prison for, but it's ok for them, because transnational corporations  wants to maximize profits by suppressing wages to poverty-levels, since they have no allegiance to their host nations/people.  Millions of citizens now live in poverty - most in working-poverty, as a direct result. 

 

The DACAs have their parents to thank for robbing the bank, but they don't get to keep the loot - just the free-educations and experience their parents already helped them steal (thanks to the SCOTUS preventing our stopping it in-progress).  Rewarding lawlessness encourages more of the same.

 

What is happening to expats in Thailand is not at all comparable.  We entered legally, stayed legally, and spent Foreign Sourced Money into their country which funded Jobs for Locals.  We behaved in a lawful fashion, and had the exact opposite effect on the local's job-prospects.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Spoke to an expat yesterday and he stated he doesn’t use an agent, pays 15k baht directly to IO at immigration and has done for a few years now !!

I had no reason not to believe him, anyone else heard anything like this ??

[Moon37]

14 hours ago, pmarlin said:

Same situation for me . Been using ACH transfers fro BofA for several years. Last weekend I set up a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank as a test . Sent $1000 cast me $45 and arrived last Monday as a FTT .  Question are to talking about a SWIFT to the Bangkok Bank New York Branch if so what is the SWIFT code. What I am going to miss is that I will have to do a transfer like this  each month while using the going away ACH i had a monthly payment set up.

SWIFT/BIC  BB NYC   BKKBUS33

MyBranch  BB BKK    BKKBTHBK

[BertM]

42 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Spoke to an expat yesterday and he stated he doesn’t use an agent, pays 15k baht directly to IO at immigration and has done for a few years now !!

I had no reason not to believe him, anyone else heard anything like this ??

Yes, was referred by a friend to an IO at Immigration (not CW) for the initial 90-day O visa and 12-mth extension, both were done same time. 2,000 for 90-day, 1,900 for 12 mth, 3,800 for multiple re-entry and 12,300 for expediting, was 20k total. Did my next renewal myself, fees only (1,900 + 3,800). Wish I could find an IO that could expedite at CW in BK now that I'm living in BK. Would gladly pay extra not to have to sit up there all day long.

Edited February 13, 2019 by BertM

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Spoke to an expat yesterday and he stated he doesn’t use an agent, pays 15k baht directly to IO at immigration and has done for a few years now !!

I had no reason not to believe him, anyone else heard anything like this ??

Yes.

[HHTel]

I have used an immigration officer some years ago.  In those days, officers were plying for trade, each one undercutting their colleagues.  There was no need for an agent.  Not sure if this still goes on as I imagine they're more worried about being caught in today's climate.

 

There was a report late last year where Big Joke had arrested 2 immigration officers for skirting around the rules.  He checked several bank letters and found that in a number of cases, the money had only been in the bank for a matter of half an hour.

The IO's were taken to task.  I don't remember it being reported that there were repercussions with the agents.

 

I think going through an agent is going to be risky, at least in the near future until things settle down and 'backhanders' become the norm again.