The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[ChouDoufu]

8 hours ago, DepDavid said:

Ok. The domestic transfer came through already and I’m 262 baht better off having done $200 wire using BKKNY and global wire through my bank. So it seems domestic wire to BKKNY might be best for me because I don’t want to have problems with it showing up here as domestic transfer.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

are you comparing two transfers?  a domestic ach to bbkny and they internally route the transfer to thailand vs a swift directly to your thai bkk bank branch?

[BertM]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

---/

I think going through an agent is going to be risky, at least in the near future until things settle down and 'backhanders' become the norm again.  

You mean going thru an agent if you don't meet the requirements and are trying to circumvent the law, right? I know several people who use agents legitimately for the convenience and because they can afford it.

Edited February 13, 2019 by BertM

[DepDavid]

are you comparing two transfers?  a domestic ach to bbkny and they internally route the transfer to thailand vs a swift directly to your thai bkk bank branch?

No. The first was a SWIFT wire converted to Thai baht at my bank and sent directly to my branch here and the second was a domestic wire sent to BKKNY in USD. The second one yielded more money in my account.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pmarlin]

17 hours ago, DepDavid said:

Do a domestic wire to BKKNY using the routing number and your address and account info in Thailand. I did the same with Chase yesterday and am awaiting results!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Like I posted that was a no go with BofA.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

Like I posted that was a no go with BofA.

A No-Go for any domestic wire-transfers?  Or just a limitation to sending domestic wire-xfers to BKB-NY?

[pmarlin]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

A No-Go for any domestic wire-transfers?  Or just a limitation to sending domestic wire-xfers to BKB-NY?

Doing a SWIFT to BBNY and then to my account with BB here.  When you SWIFT to BBNY it is a domestic transfer and you can't provide a international address for the person receiving the funds. Someone earlier pointed our that SWIFT is really only for customers of the BBNY branch. Any way 1 April 19 it all changes anyway which is too bad as I have been doing ACH transfers using them for several years. I normally do one large transfer a month  and a Swift will cost me $20 more than what I was paying for the ACH transfer, The thing that I will miss was with ACH I had automatic payment setup and now being forced to do SWIFT I have to logon to online banking only do it one at a time. Good thing I have the pass code card  plus kept a american cell phone number active for the OTP needed 

.

[ChouDoufu]

10 hours ago, DepDavid said:

No. The first was a SWIFT wire converted to Thai baht at my bank and sent directly to my branch here and the second was a domestic wire sent to BKKNY in USD. The second one yielded more money in my account.

1st was an international swift.  got it.  but why convert to baht?  you can send usd to bkk, they do the forex and give you a better rate.

 

i'm unclear on the second xfer.  you said a wire; i assume a domestic ach, not a swift.  in that case, that option goes away in five weeks.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm unclear on the second xfer.  you said a wire; i assume a domestic ach, not a swift.  in that case, that option goes away in five weeks.

Domestic wire-xfer and ACH are 2 different ways to send money domestically in the USA between bank-accounts. 

 

ACH is more like an electronic-check, and takes 3 or so days to clear.  ACH is often free from fees. 

 

A domestic wire-xfer is same-day - fast - and costs money - but usually 1/2 or so the cost of international.  I say "usually." because some banks offer very different rates on domestic and intl wire-transfers than others.

 

As ACH is ending for BKB-NY (unless our local-banks start supporting Interntl-ACH), what would be used is a Domestic Wire Xfer to that branch.  This should be cheaper than an international-wire xfer to your bank in Thailand. 

 

In my experience, transfers of any kind through BKB-NY always show up as "FTT" - a foreign xfer - to your Thai account-statement (even the going-away ACH xfers did).

 

I suppose it is an open-question if domestic wire-xfers to BKB-NY will be accepted in the future, but I do not recall any announcement these would end - only the ACH method.

Edited February 14, 2019 by JackThompson

[JimGant]

First of all, there is no such thing as a domestic SWIFT wire. SWIFT pertains to international wire transfers only. Domestic wires use routing (ABA) numbers -- the same as do ACH transfers.

 

Quote

In function, the routing-number system used by U.S. financial institutions is very similar to the international SWIFT system. The biggest difference is that routing numbers are used for transfers domestically, instead of the internationally used SWIFT code.

https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/the-difference-between-swift-codes-and-routing-num.aspx

Quote

Never mind just tried to do a swift to BBNY using the SWIFT  BKKBUS33XXX and will only let me do domestic SWIFT and no where to enter the needed Thai address

You mean they let you do a domestic wire, not SWIFT -- and yes, domestic wires don't require recipient's address nor purpose of transfer (major data fields required by the money laundry police, for SWIFT and international ACH transfers). However, domestic wires will currently get to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand (it did for me), using their domestic routing number (026008691 -- the same as for an ACH transfer) and your account number in Thailand. But, this method, since it lacks the data elements mentioned, sidesteps the Feds, same as does the ACH system. Come 1 April, I doubt this system will work.

 

Somebody must of gotten a chuckle out of seeing someone trying to do a domestic wire using a SWIFT code, as the code in question -- BKKBUS33 -- is for international transfers from outside the US to within the US, specifically to Bangkok Bank NY. The "US" is the key giveaway, same as the "TH" in BKKBTHBK indicates SWIFT transfers to Thailand.

 

 

[JackThompson]

58 minutes ago, JimGant said:

domestic wires don't require recipient's address nor purpose of transfer

I have been asked for this info before when sending a domestic wire - though perhaps not always required.  Thanks for your post-info, though - doesn't look good for the domestic-wire option.

[HHTel]

There are two numbers used as identification in International Banking.

The SWIFT code "Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications":  Used to identify a specific bank during international transactions.

IBAN "International Bank Account Number": Used to identify an individual account during an international transaction.

 

Both numbers are important for the smooth running of international banking.  They don't have any place in the domestic market.

[garyk]

Anyone putting up with these requirements in retirement is setting themselves up for a rough rough road ahead.

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, garyk said:

Anyone putting up with these requirements in retirement is setting themselves up for a rough rough road ahead.

Their only other choice is to leave or pay an agent.  Many have personal connections here - so it's not easy to just "up stakes" and go. 

 

I do think we should form an organization and hire legal / lobbying / advertising support.  As it is, the anti-farang clique can propagandize against us constantly with no response.  If we could buy ads/ airtime to show the Thais and Exapts being hurt by these policies, this could make a difference.  The Thai people should be informed of how immigration is trying to drive "good guys" out.

[granuaile]

Went to Immigration in Bangkok yesterday, and everything went smoothly. I had backup documents for income but wasn't asked to show any, though the officer told me I can't use the letter next year (assume she meant because I'm a U.S. citizen). I asked about next year, and she said I would have to have savings, so I asked about income transferred into a Thai bank account and she said "yes" but not sure if she understood me. Went quicker this year, I'm less stressed now since I can take my time taking care of things here so I can leave with no problems in a few months.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, granuaile said:

Went to Immigration in Bangkok yesterday, and everything went smoothly. I had backup documents for income but wasn't asked to show any, though the officer told me I can't use the letter next year (assume she meant because I'm a U.S. citizen). I asked about next year, and she said I would have to have savings, so I asked about income transferred into a Thai bank account and she said "yes" but not sure if she understood me. Went quicker this year, I'm less stressed now since I can take my time taking care of things here so I can leave with no problems in a few months.

 

It's good to hear CW Immigration in BKK is still honoring Embassy income letters issued before the end of 2018, as they're supposed to do by their own policy.

 

The test, however, is going to be what starts happening in the 2nd half of 2019 and beyond, when income letters for US, UK, Aussie and Danes are gone, and those citizens are relying only on Thai bank deposits or monthly foreign transfers to Thai banks. And particularly what Immigration is and isn't going to accept in terms of types of foreign source transfers that they (or the banks) will deem acceptable.

 

[icare999]

On 10 February 2019 at 11:39 AM, spidermike007 said:

Recently returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. I believe at this point, that if Brittany Spears were to declare her candidacy, she would beat Prayuth, hands down. That is how much he and the army are despised, at this point. Especially after the recent stunt he pulled.

well i and all thais i and my thai wife know support him he might be loathed by you but i dont tihnk by most of population well see at election hes brought stability and peace when before was fighting and discorse I never went for marriage visa but do know people who use it and are not in reality married with regard to new rules they are fine IMO for to long al oad of ex pats without a pot to piss in have abused rules and their embassies have coluded in that ive been here over 30 years and rules have not changed for around 14 years ive alwasy found immigration with one or 2 exceptions helpful and very friendly but 1 or 2 exceptions id agree can be extremelly rude and aggresive im pissed off with so many low life forang here living on peanuts not able to properly support their families and when i ask whats going to happen to your kids and wife when your gone get answer not my problem 

[granuaile]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's good to hear CW Immigration in BKK is still honoring Embassy income letters issued before the end of 2018, as they're supposed to do by their own policy.

 

The test, however, is going to be what starts happening in the 2nd half of 2019 and beyond, when income letters for US, UK, Aussie and Danes are gone, and those citizens are relying only on Thai bank deposits or monthly foreign transfers to Thai banks. And particularly what Immigration is and isn't going to accept in terms of types of foreign source transfers that they (or the banks) will deem acceptable.

 

That was a big concern of mine, and I had printed off whatever I could find about the validity. I will definitely be following what happens in the future with the transferring 65,000 baht each month. If I come back sometime in the future, that would be the method I'd be using, right now seems a lot will just be wait and see on that. Also yesterday, I only had to go to one desk - in past after first officer I was usually sent to a second desk, but yesterday just talked to the one officer, she mentioned the letter, told me to wait in the waiting area, and maybe 30 minutes later I had my passport back.

[ThomasThBKK]

On 2/13/2019 at 1:49 PM, balo said:

 

Yes there are bad agents and there are good agents.  The good agents works closely with the top immigration officials, they are not faking any documents.   

The banks will issue the letter , stamped and approved by IO. 

It's all about the 800k really, you borrow it legally, but only for a few hours. 

 

In the end it is the top immigration people who decides if they will accept your extension or not. 

 

You would need a lending license to legally lend money to someone in thailand on a commercial basis. 

 

So no these short term loans for immigration purposes are usually not legal. 

[marcusarelus]

On 2/13/2019 at 12:32 PM, billsmart said:

That's what I (and others) have been told by my local (Phetchabun) IO, but many (most) on this forum dispute that.

I'd say right now, that's still not known for sure, but certainly is a possibility that needs more validating.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1084655-holding-the-balance-phuket-immigration-clarifies-new-rules-on-retirement-visas-to-start-march-1/

[RPCVguy]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:33 PM, JackThompson said:

It would appear that this is not why the authorities change the rules - at all.  If anything, the reverse.  If they really wanted to stop the agents skirting the rules, with IO's help, they would arrest and interrogate the agents, to make plea-deals to ID the IOs, then do the same to those IOs, right up the chain to the top.  That is the only way organized crime is ever stopped. 

 

The only problem is, who is above the scheme to do it?  Given the new rules won't impede agent-activity, and the big name agents aren't in jail right now, no one of consequence, apparently.

 

From where I am sitting, it appears those making the rules very much resent all that good we do.  Maybe they resent it that someone might be thankful to a foreigner for such.  Their policies seem intended to minimize this activity.

 

No, we have foreign-sourced income-streams, so can choose any of the nations who welcome those with their own money to spend.

 

All of those being deported entered or remained in the country illegally and took jobs from citizens illegally, using fake federal documents to do so.  That's a felony which you or I would go to prison for, but it's ok for them, because transnational corporations  wants to maximize profits by suppressing wages to poverty-levels, since they have no allegiance to their host nations/people.  Millions of citizens now live in poverty - most in working-poverty, as a direct result. 

 

The DACAs have their parents to thank for robbing the bank, but they don't get to keep the loot - just the free-educations and experience their parents already helped them steal (thanks to the SCOTUS preventing our stopping it in-progress).  Rewarding lawlessness encourages more of the same.

 

What is happening to expats in Thailand is not at all comparable.  We entered legally, stayed legally, and spent Foreign Sourced Money into their country which funded Jobs for Locals.  We behaved in a lawful fashion, and had the exact opposite effect on the local's job-prospects.

Your points are correct from a legalistic perspective. I was (and am still) hoping to influence the future based upon a moralistic perspective. Things are not yet cast in stone with a published full set of rules. I suspect there is a segment among the authorities who wish to treat those who've arrived in the past and played by the rules to continue having access to those rules... similar to how the existing retirement extension rules have a "grandfather clause"

 

6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

 

The 800K rule currently, (or 400K for an extension based upon marriage) allowed use of the cash to cover emergencies - and that is what I'd budgeted to be able to do - with a combo of pension benefits that could then replenish the amount in time for renewing the extension. I have all my savings here, invested in family and our home. Honoring rules in place since 1998 for those who've lived by those rules for years is what I am hoping to have considered and adopted in the final declaration.

The rest of my initial post is strongly flavored by my sense of morality for a second reason - a decade of having been a minister. Morality is not the law, but I believe it is the glue that binds society more completely than does the law alone.

 

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, RPCVguy said:

Your points are correct from a legalistic perspective. I was (and am still) hoping to influence the future based upon a moralistic perspective.

Good luck with that. Have you ever been to Thailand?

[Kaitangsou]

OMG...this nightmarish visa regime ...thx God my last visit to Thailand was ten years ago and the writing was on the wall even then, loud and clear, and even on the toilet floor, but here in Philippines I have been coming up on 36 months consecutive stay with 2 months or 6 months extensions at one of the many immigration offices scattered throughout the country...never had a single question thrown at me, and couple of times overstayed without any problems...Thailand...BRRRRRR.....Philippines ROCKS!!

Come on guys, smell the roses...

 

Francois Williams - YT

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, Kaitangsou said:

OMG...this nightmarish visa regime ...thx God my last visit to Thailand was ten years ago and the writing was on the wall even then, loud and clear, and even on the toilet floor, but here in Philippines I have been coming up on 36 months consecutive stay with 2 months or 6 months extensions at one of the many immigration offices scattered throughout the country...never had a single question thrown at me, and couple of times overstayed without any problems...Thailand...BRRRRRR.....Philippines ROCKS!!

Come on guys, smell the roses...

 

Francois Williams - YT

The Philippines is not Thailand, and doesn't come close!

 

The Thai visa system is still easy for anyone that qualifies for the respective visa.

 

The countries with 'easier visas' will do exactly the same as Thailand if/when the numbers visitors grow as they have in Thailand.

[balo]

 

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

The Philippines is not Thailand, and doesn't come close!

Good morning Vietnaam!!!  Here I come. 

 

 

[Percy P]

On 2/11/2019 at 12:18 PM, Thaidream said:

I don't give a damn whether I am boring you or not. When you see my moniker- don't read it.

 

There was nothing fraudulent about the Embassy Letter- it had a disclaimer indicating it could not guarantee the veracity of what was written but that  an applicant's signature made under Oath subjected them to a penalty of perjury.

 

When I know a wrong decision has been made based upon a statement I know is withholding the real reasons of why it is made- I do not just let it pass.  And when I see another US Embassy doing the same thing that the one in Bangkok is saying it cannot or will not do- I find that that verifies my  narrative.

 

I have no idea why my opinion bothers you, I have not directed anything personal towards you but I have noticed that you  tend to answers posts in a sarcastic manner.  You might want to look into a mirror and examine your attitude towards others.

 

100

Not the same people who worked their 20 years ago.

[Percy P]

11 minutes ago, Percy P said:



 

12 minutes ago, Percy P said:

100% reply. nobody is asking you to read the messages.

 

[Percy P]

16 minutes ago, Percy P said:

100% reply.   

 

[JackThompson]

On 2/16/2019 at 5:08 PM, RPCVguy said:

The rest of my initial post is strongly flavored by my sense of morality for a second reason - a decade of having been a minister. Morality is not the law, but I believe it is the glue that binds society more completely than does the law alone.

From a moral perspective, consider the long-term effects.  If the middle-class was not being eviscerated in the West, we could do more to help bring up the poorer nations of the world to a higher standard of living.

 

By destroying the only islands where strong middle-classes exist - primarily through easy work-visas and/or open-borders and/or low-tariffs on slave-labor products from abroad - we doom the entire world to 99% working-poverty for who knows how many centuries or forever.  Even at extreme immigration levels, less than 1% of the world's poor can be "saved" by immigration into the West. They must be helped where they are - to build middle-classes in their own nations.

 

When I see Thailand expanding "L-Visas" to undermine their working-class, and removing expats who spend foreign capital to expand/bootstrap it, it appears to me as more of what happened / is happening in the West, even before they reached the level (%) of a middle-class we achieved. 

[JackThompson]

On 2/16/2019 at 5:42 PM, elviajero said:

The countries with 'easier visas' will do exactly the same as Thailand if/when the numbers visitors grow as they have in Thailand.

Why?  Do you anticipate they will run out of locals who need better jobs funded by expat-spending first?  Or places for foreigners to stay (many empty condos here, thanks to immigration's policies)?  Or restaurants to serve them?

 

It's an attitude problem with a clique within power - not a numbers problem with us.  We are a tiny number compared to the short-term package-tour visitors.  They are the group who could be most credibly blamed for making Thailand less-attractive as a tourist destination, and being generally disliked by the local population. 

 

None of the supposed-reasons for targeting us make any logical/rational sense.

[rott]

On 2/15/2019 at 2:57 PM, icare999 said:

well i and all thais i and my thai wife know support him he might be loathed by you but i dont tihnk by most of population well see at election hes brought stability and peace when before was fighting and discorse I never went for marriage visa but do know people who use it and are not in reality married with regard to new rules they are fine IMO for to long al oad of ex pats without a pot to piss in have abused rules and their embassies have coluded in that ive been here over 30 years and rules have not changed for around 14 years ive alwasy found immigration with one or 2 exceptions helpful and very friendly but 1 or 2 exceptions id agree can be extremelly rude and aggresive im pissed off with so many low life forang here living on peanuts not able to properly support their families and when i ask whats going to happen to your kids and wife when your gone get answer not my problem 

How do you know they are living on peanuts?

How do you know they are not providing for their families?

How do you know they are not raising another man's children?

 

You must be a very successful nosey individual to be so sure of your facts.

No doubt there are a few like that but they are not a burden on the public purse. And unlikely to be on a private one either.

 

At the end of the day it really is nowt to do with you. Or me. So we can carry on regardless, happily living the dream.