More Brexit embarrassment for May as parliament defeats her again

[webfact]

More Brexit embarrassment for May as parliament defeats her again

By Elizabeth Piper, Kylie MacLellan and William James

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May is pictured outside the Houses of Parliament, in London, Britain, February 14, 2019. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May suffered a defeat on her Brexit strategy on Thursday that undermined her pledge to European Union leaders to get her divorce deal approved if they grant her concessions.

 

In a show of muscle, hardline Brexit supporters in her Conservative Party decided to abstain, handing her an embarrassing, albeit symbolic, defeat as she tries to renegotiate her deal with the EU.

 

While it will not deter May from trying to secure changes on the most contentious issue of the deal - the Irish "backstop" - the vote does show that her pro-Brexit lawmakers are a major obstacle to passing any agreement.

 

May was absent from the House of Commons for the debate and the outcome of the vote, which deepened the sense of political crisis over Britain's departure, more than two years after voters opted to leave the bloc by a margin of 52 percent to 48.

 

The crunch vote is now expected to come on Feb. 27, when May is due to return to parliament - and lawmakers who fear leaving without a deal could try to seize control of Britain's departure from the EU.

 

DEAL, NO DEAL, NO BREXIT?

The latest twist in the two-year negotiation to leave the EU underlines the rifts in parliament over how, or even whether, Britain should leave the bloc, its biggest political and trade policy shift in more than 40 years.

 

It increases the possibility of Britain leaving without a deal, a nightmare scenario for many businesses, but also of Brexit being delayed or potentially never happening at all.

 

May's spokesman said she still believed parliament wanted her to keep pressing for changes to the Brexit deal: "The government will continue to pursue this with the EU to ensure we leave on time on 29th March."

 

EU leaders, meanwhile, have repeatedly said there can be no substantive change to the legally binding withdrawal agreement containing the backstop, a guarantee that there can be no return of border controls between the British province of Northern Ireland and EU-member Ireland.

 

With trust in the prime minister at an all-time low, one Conservative pro-Brexit lawmaker said the government could no longer ignore eurosceptics' views.

 

"While the vote might not be of substantive importance, what it does do is to tell the government that they really can't take Brexiteers for granted," the lawmaker said on condition of anonymity.

 

With many Conservative lawmakers abstaining, the government defeat on its motion reaffirming support for May's strategy was a heavy one, at 303 votes to 258.

 

RUNNING DOWN THE CLOCK?

The pro-Brexit European Research Group (ERG), several dozen strong, had said they would defy May unless she dispelled their concern that she might after all baulk at a no-deal exit.

 

Ministers were keen to shrug off the defeat.

 

"The fact that ERG colleagues abstain is sending a message that they still want to find a way forward and find a solution," said Robert Buckland, the solicitor general.

 

ERG members say ruling out a no-deal Brexit would not only weaken Britain's negotiating hand but also remove what, for many, is the desired end-point: the cleanest possible break.

 

But some Conservative and many opposition lawmakers accuse May of "running down the clock", edging Britain closer to the exit date to try to force parliament into a choice between backing her deal or leaving without an agreement.

 

A majority of lawmakers agree with businesses, which say that outcome would be catastrophic for the world's fifth largest economy: causing delays at ports, fracturing crucial international supply chains and hindering investment.

 

Opposition Labour lawmaker Alison McGovern said it was time to stop the clock on Brexit.

 

"In any normal circumstances, this would be general election territory. It is clear that the prime minister cannot easily command a majority in the House of Commons, and that is central to our system," she told Reuters.

 

(Additional reporting by Andrew MacAskill and James Davey, Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge, Elizabeth Piper and Michael Holden; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-02-15

[Samui Bodoh]

Whether a person is for or against Brexit doesn't really matter at this point; crashing out of the EU without some agreement in place is irresponsible madness. It is the equivalent of moving out of one's flat without another place to live.

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Samui Bodoh

[tebee]

@Aright in the last thread said- 

 

I read today over the past four quarters UK GDP has risen by 1.3%, France by 0.9%, Germany by 0.6% and Italy by 0.1%.

Things have got worse for Germany, in the last 6 mths their GDP has fallen by 0.1% while the UK's GDP has gone up by 0.8%.

Where France is concerned their figures are overstated. Their growth apparently has been fueled by rocketing sales of yellow vests and stun grenades.

 

 Unfortunately it got it wrong. 1.3% is the UK year on year figure, .9% is the French last quarter figure, year on year was 1.4% just beating the UK. Germany was 1.5% and Italy .6%

[Lungstib]

The Brexit fiasco is at least informing us on the dire situation British politics is facing. The chosen winners of the last election have shown themselves to be totally divided over this issue and the opposition is making little or no inroads into its fight to overtake. Perhaps the British have finally decided that politicians are just not to be trusted to do what the electorate want but the time appears to be ripe for new parties to make an appearance. The old ones look to be intent on just pulling themselves apart.

[Chomper Higgot]

The referendum was an attempt to avert the collapse of the Tory party over Britain’s membership of the EU

 

This defeat was handed to the PM by members of her own party.

 

What an utter shambles.

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Whether a person is for or against Brexit doesn't really matter at this point; crashing out of the EU without some agreement in place is irresponsible madness. It is the equivalent of moving out of one's flat without another place to live.

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

 

But it isn't, hence the fighting. Leaving the EU without a deal is the work of a small but vocal minority - many Brexiteers don't want no deal either.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

But it isn't, hence the fighting. Leaving the EU without a deal is the work of a small but vocal minority - many Brexiteers don't want no deal either.

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

20 minutes ago, Lungstib said:

The Brexit fiasco is at least informing us on the dire situation British politics is facing. The chosen winners of the last election have shown themselves to be totally divided over this issue and the opposition is making little or no inroads into its fight to overtake. Perhaps the British have finally decided that politicians are just not to be trusted to do what the electorate want but the time appears to be ripe for new parties to make an appearance. The old ones look to be intent on just pulling themselves apart.

Was thinking exactly the same myself... How bad must our politicians be when even the opposition party is fighting amongst itself whilst there's an open door to government waiting for them to walk through.

 

Whether you're for or against Brexit, I think we can all agree that it really has divided the nation... 

[LucysDad]

6 minutes ago, baboon said:

But it isn't, hence the fighting. Leaving the EU without a deal is the work of a small but vocal minority - many Brexiteers don't want no deal either.

 

 

I agree. I have no desire for a no deal exit..................... I would take no deal, come 29th March, if those concerned cannot get consensus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?

 

 

May's deal. Neither side get what they want, but the Brexiteers can't say that we haven't left. If they aren't happy with the terms and conditions, tough. Take it up with David Cameron.

[Sticky Wicket]

I think we have to leave now by hook or by crook.

If we don't we will be forever at the mercy of the behemoth

[LucysDad]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?

 

 

 

 

It doesn't raise that question at all.

 

 

It is not Remoaners blocking the deal getting through parliament.

[sammieuk1]

I suggest adopting the euro as a compromise or rice as the millionaire Tories have turned our pound to junk with their toff power struggle ????  

[Somtamnication]

Don't worry, Mrs. May. The same armageddon warnings that we all had during the Y2K handover in 1999.

 

Get on with it. My bottle of Champagne is waiting for March 29.

[LucysDad]

6 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

I suggest adopting the euro as a compromise or rice as the millionaire Tories have turned our pound to junk with their toff power struggle ????  

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

[Sticky Wicket]

5 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

Hard to believe anybody can be endeared to any of the euro fanatics who are ideologically possessed. 

Drunker et al have shown their true colours and I would imagine not many Brits have liked what they have seen. Truly odious creatures

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Sticky Wicket

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into.

 

But if you think the UK is getting a tough deal from the EU, wait until you see the shafting the US dishes out to a UK cap-in-hand desperate for a trade deal.

 

A degree of being ‘pleasuring’ that will only be a warmup for what the Chinese will serve up.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[steve187]

43 minutes ago, Lungstib said:

The Brexit fiasco is at least informing us on the dire situation British politics is facing. The chosen winners of the last election have shown themselves to be totally divided over this issue and the opposition is making little or no inroads into its fight to overtake. Perhaps the British have finally decided that politicians are just not to be trusted to do what the electorate want but the time appears to be ripe for new parties to make an appearance. The old ones look to be intent on just pulling themselves apart.

i agree with you the whole 2 party system in the UK is failing, a complete revamp is required, the whole lot of the idiots in the house of commons should resign. results of the 2015 G.E. the system needs changing to reflect how the people vote , proportional representation is needed, - 

Conservatives	36.9%	+0.8%	331	+24	50.9%
Labour	30.4%	+1.4%	232	-26	35.7%
UKIP	12.6%	+9.5%	1	+1	0.2%
Liberal Democrats	7.9%	-15.2%	8	-49	1.2%
SNP	4.7%	+3.1%	56	+50	8.6%
Green Party	3.8%	+2.8%	1	–	0.2%
DUP	0.6%	–	8	–	1.2%

[soalbundy]

18 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Don't worry, Mrs. May. The same armageddon warnings that we all had during the Y2K handover in 1999.

 

Get on with it. My bottle of Champagne is waiting for March 29.

French Champagne, will you be able to afford it ?

[Loiner]

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?
 
 

If May and the EU try pushing their BRINO again, we will end up with the default No Deal.

There have been no major changes to it, so it should have been voted down again. Regardless of the red herring backstop there are many more important issues in the deal which must rejected.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into.

 

But if you think the UK is getting a tough deal from the EU, wait until you see the shafting the US dishes out to a UK cap-in-hand desperate for a trade deal.

 

A degree of being ‘pleasuring’ that will only be a warmup for what the Chinese will serve up.

"It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into"

 

Have you ever thought for one minute by not helping the UK, the EU are not helping themselves, is it a case of the EU cutting their nose off to spite their face. Make no mistake the EU desperately  wants a deal, it is getting to the stage of who blinks first, if Mrs May had won last night there was a good chance of a 'no deal' being taken off the table. A no deal is the only bargaining tool we have left, take that off the table we may all just lay down and get a good kicking. 

If MPs want the best for our country, they are certainly going the wrong way about it.

 

[bert bloggs]

49 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

Junker/Tusk and co are not the EU ,they are  snouts in trough the lot of them ,they do not seem to care what happens to the country's in the EU ,just what happens to their beloved club Brussels,where they can jet around the world pretending that they are the "elected" voice of Europe ,in fact they are just an unelected bunch of c-----ts.

[dick dasterdly]

45 minutes ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

I blame the brit. govt. (the vast majority of whom are remainers), as much as the eu govt. for the unnecessary fiasco over leaving the eu.

 

Whilst I'm disappointed that the eu made no attempt to reform the most disliked parts of it's organisation after the brexit referendum result (which may have resulted in voters changing their minds about a REFORMED eu) - I'm downright bad-tempered at the way May and the govt. are doing their very best to ensure BRINO, plus paying 39 bn for the privilege!

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Whether a person is for or against Brexit doesn't really matter at this point; crashing out of the EU without some agreement in place is irresponsible madness. It is the equivalent of moving out of one's flat without another place to live.

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

Read the Hard Brexiteer nutters here and you get the picture. Grumpy old losers seeking payback for all the disappointments in their life and wanting to stick the lifetime's donkey tail on membership of the EU.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I blame the brit. govt. (the vast majority of whom are remainers), as much as the eu govt. for the unnecessary fiasco over leaving the eu.

Whilst I'm disappointed that the eu made no attempt to reform the most disliked parts of it's organisation after the brexit referendum result (which may have resulted in voters changing their minds about a REFORMED eu) - I'm downright bad-tempered at the way May and the govt. are doing their very best to ensure BRINO, plus paying 39 bn for the privilege!

Blame and Bad Temper: the Hard Brexiteer preferred choice of brand for eau de cologne.

[SheungWan]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

"It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into"

 

Have you ever thought for one minute by not helping the UK, the EU are not helping themselves, is it a case of the EU cutting their nose off to spite their face. Make no mistake the EU desperately  wants a deal, it is getting to the stage of who blinks first, if Mrs May had won last night there was a good chance of a 'no deal' being taken off the table. A no deal is the only bargaining tool we have left, take that off the table we may all just lay down and get a good kicking. 

If MPs want the best for our country, they are certainly going the wrong way about it.

....whereas in reality the British modus operandi has been to lay down and give themselves a good old kicking from beginning to end. Great to watch.

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, Loiner said:

If May and the EU try pushing their BRINO again, we will end up with the default No Deal.
There have been no major changes to it, so it should have been voted down again. Regardless of the red herring backstop there are many more important issues in the deal which must rejected.

There is no "must (be) rejected", only a decision by Parliament. But we all know that if a deal is passed by Parliament, the Hard Brexiteers will turn against Parliament.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Hard to believe anybody can be endeared to any of the euro fanatics who are ideologically possessed. 

Drunker et al have shown their true colours and I would imagine not many Brits have liked what they have seen. Truly odious creatures

But no mention of the odious Hard Brexiteers who of course cannot be accused of being ideologically possessed. 

[SheungWan]

For a number of Brits GBPTHB hovering around that psychologically important 40 mid-point line. Has TT Exchange broken it?

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

....whereas in reality the British modus operandi has been to lay down and give themselves a good old kicking from beginning to end. Great to watch.

Whilst some snowflakes seem quite content to stand on the pavement and throw pointless remarks into the middle of the road.