More Brexit embarrassment for May as parliament defeats her again

[ballpoint]

20 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

...in fact they are just an unelected bunch of c-----ts.

Hmmm.  Can I buy a vowel?

[Chomper Higgot]

42 minutes ago, vogie said:

"It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into"

 

Have you ever thought for one minute by not helping the UK, the EU are not helping themselves, is it a case of the EU cutting their nose off to spite their face. Make no mistake the EU desperately  wants a deal, it is getting to the stage of who blinks first, if Mrs May had won last night there was a good chance of a 'no deal' being taken off the table. A no deal is the only bargaining tool we have left, take that off the table we may all just lay down and get a good kicking. 

If MPs want the best for our country, they are certainly going the wrong way about it.

 

A Brexiteer arguing about others ‘cutting off their nose to spite their face.’

 

Utter obsurdity delivered without a hint of irony, much less introspection.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

Foot... shoot itself in the foot.

[brewsterbudgen]

Read the Hard Brexiteer nutters here and you get the picture. Grumpy old losers seeking payback for all the disappointments in their life and wanting to stick the lifetime's donkey tail on membership of the EU.

Indeed. It's astonishing that May is trying so hard to placate the extremists in her party, rather than seeking a cross-party consensus. She will have a lot to answer for if we crash out.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Chomper Higgot]

28 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I blame the brit. govt. (the vast majority of whom are remainers), as much as the eu govt. for the unnecessary fiasco over leaving the eu.

 

Whilst I'm disappointed that the eu made no attempt to reform the most disliked parts of it's organisation after the brexit referendum result (which may have resulted in voters changing their minds about a REFORMED eu) - I'm downright bad-tempered at the way May and the govt. are doing their very best to ensure BRINO, plus paying 39 bn for the privilege!

I would have some sympathy for you (and Brexiteers in general) had you/they voted for a Brexit that had a plan attached.

 

As it is you are trotting out the one consistent Brexit message:

 

It’s all someone else’s fault.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

i agree with you the whole 2 party system in the UK is failing, a complete revamp is required, the whole lot of the idiots in the house of commons should resign. results of the 2015 G.E. the system needs changing to reflect how the people vote , proportional representation is needed, -

Sorry dear, but we have already had a referendum on that. ????

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

The Brexit fiasco is at least informing us on the dire situation British politics is facing. The chosen winners of the last election have shown themselves to be totally divided over this issue and the opposition is making little or no inroads into its fight to overtake. Perhaps the British have finally decided that politicians are just not to be trusted to do what the electorate want but the time appears to be ripe for new parties to make an appearance. The old ones look to be intent on just pulling themselves apart.

As if UKIP didn't pull itself apart.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed. It's astonishing that May is trying so hard to placate the extremists in her party, rather than seeking a cross-party consensus. She will have a lot to answer for if we crash out.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

She’s putting party before country.

 

No surprise really, the referendum was an attempt to end Tory infighting over the EU.

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A Brexiteer arguing about others ‘cutting off their nose to spite their face.’

 

Utter obsurdity delivered without a hint of irony, much less introspection.

Stuck for a reply are we?????????????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

i agree with you the whole 2 party system in the UK is failing, a complete revamp is required, the whole lot of the idiots in the house of commons should resign. results of the 2015 G.E. the system needs changing to reflect how the people vote , proportional representation is needed, - 

Conservatives	36.9%	+0.8%	331	+24	50.9%
Labour	30.4%	+1.4%	232	-26	35.7%
UKIP	12.6%	+9.5%	1	+1	0.2%
Liberal Democrats	7.9%	-15.2%	8	-49	1.2%
SNP	4.7%	+3.1%	56	+50	8.6%
Green Party	3.8%	+2.8%	1	–	0.2%
DUP	0.6%	–	8	–	1.2%

So Brexiteers rant at Remainers for wanting to overturn an advisory Referendum result and yet here we have a call to overthrow the whole electoral system.

 

Odd that!

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Stuck for a reply are we?????????????

 No, I just gave you one.

 

But you didn’t like it.

 

Oh well.

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was never their job to ‘help’ the UK out of the mess the UK got itself into.

 

But if you think the UK is getting a tough deal from the EU, wait until you see the shafting the US dishes out to a UK cap-in-hand desperate for a trade deal.

 

A degree of being ‘pleasuring’ that will only be a warmup for what the Chinese will serve up.

Exactly  that. The UK will discover that the referendum was based on populist emotive appeal rather than informed consideration. The UK was a concessional member of the EU originally. Now why expect more concessions  to exit?

Being between a rock and a hard place can only cause some severe  bruising !

[flossie35]

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

 

It has certainly helped to deflect attention from the unhelpful/uncompromising EU.

 

 

British Parliament is certainly shooting itself in the foot, but am I the only one with a burning hatred for Junker/Tusk et al for doing nothing to help towards a smooth transition.

I hope you are! What do you expect Junker/Tusk to do? Re-start the NI troubles? And what hope is there for a "smooth transition"? And since any form of brexit is bad for us why do we still persist with silly nonsense?

[smedly]

the simple solution to the withdrawal agreement issue is to have a mechanism to cancel it - no alteration to the agreement itself just an exit clause to cancel the whole thing - it is standard practice to have such a clause in any agreement - the right to cancel

 

it would be used if the EU try to shaft us during trade talks.

 

It really is a standard thing to do - call it the UK's backstop to the whole Withdrawal Agreement 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

the simple solution to the withdrawal agreement issue is to have a mechanism to cancel it - no alteration to the agreement itself just an exit clause to cancel the whole thing - it is standard practice to have such a clause in any agreement - the right to cancel

 

it would be used if the EU try to shaft us during trade talks.

 

It really is a standard thing to do - call it the UK's backstop to the whole Withdrawal Agreement 

Give us what we want or we’ll vandalise our own economy.

[rixalex]

On 2/11/2019 at 2:15 PM, rixalex said:

"Thank you rixalex (and others) for answering my question. The reason why I disagree with you on the point you made that all future referendums will be undermined and therefore pointless, if we don't enact the 2016 vote first, before having another referendum, is I think that......"

 

Incapable of answering then it is.

 

7by7: "Already answered, several times; but you choose to ignore it.

 

I will repeat, although I expect you will ignore the answer agai8n.

 

The time to rectify a mistake is before the consequences become too great to rectify; particularly when the margin was so small.."

 

Firstly, it may have escaped your attention but your reply above completely contradicts your trolling accusation that your loaded and baiting question about, "why Brexiteers fear another referendum", had never been answered. If i had never answered it, you in turn would have never answered to my reply.

 

Secondly, I didn't ignore your answer, but it does nothing to explain, as i asked you, how having another referendum before enacting the last one, will not result in all future referendums being undermined and therefore pointless.

 

Thirdly, more than a million people is really not a small margin. 10s of thousands is. Even hundreds of thousands you could make that case. More than a million is pretty resounding.

 

[Loiner]

the simple solution to the withdrawal agreement issue is to have a mechanism to cancel it - no alteration to the agreement itself just an exit clause to cancel the whole thing - it is standard practice to have such a clause in any agreement - the right to cancel
 
it would be used if the EU try to shaft us during trade talks.
 
It really is a standard thing to do - call it the UK's backstop to the whole Withdrawal Agreement 

Certainly that ‘agreement’ must be cancelled, or have limitations on all its’ clauses. May and EU don’t want to do the because it’s the surrender.
The Withdrawal Act, which gets us out in 42 days, is the one we must keep in place. They keep trying to amend it but haven’t succeeded yet.


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[smedly]

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Certainly that ‘agreement’ must be cancelled, or have limitations on all its’ clauses. May and EU don’t want to do the because it’s the surrender.
The Withdrawal Act, which gets us out in 42 days, is the one we must keep in place. They keep trying to amend it but haven’t succeeded yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

because without an exit clause they hold all the cards, they will make demands on stuff we couldn't possibly agree too such as fishing - we must be able to exit the agreement in a similar way that we can use ART50 to exit the whole EU and all of its treaties

 

we must be able to say to the EU - these trade talks are going nowhere we will therefore exit and leave on WTO - that must be an option and it also must include a return of any money we pay apart from the billion that is our actual financial commitment that we must pay

 

Personally I would prefer holding the money until trade talks have concluded otherwise they will shaft us - nothing to stop them 

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which raises the question Brexit with no deal or no Brexit?

 

 

 

 

[smedly]

4 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

 

The people of the UK voted to leave - that is done and dusted, there possibly be scope for how we leave

[alanrchase]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

For a number of Brits GBPTHB hovering around that psychologically important 40 mid-point line. Has TT Exchange broken it?

Yep, received a transfer this morning, 39.6.

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, smedly said:

because without an exit clause they hold all the cards, they will make demands on stuff we couldn't possibly agree too such as fishing - we must be able to exit the agreement in a similar way that we can use ART50 to exit the whole EU and all of its treaties

 

we must be able to say to the EU - these trade talks are going nowhere we will therefore exit and leave on WTO - that must be an option and it also must include a return of any money we pay apart from the billion that is our actual financial commitment that we must pay

 

Personally I would prefer holding the money until trade talks have concluded otherwise they will shaft us - nothing to stop them 

Have you read anywhere exactly how much is genuinely 'owed' to the eu?

 

From the beginning, it has been nothing other than 'made up' numbers!

[evadgib]

Get on with it. No deal? no problem! (and on my own head be it if i'm wrong!)

[smedly]

26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Have you read anywhere exactly how much is genuinely 'owed' to the eu?

 

From the beginning, it has been nothing other than 'made up' numbers!

I believe the actual figure is 9B - the other 30B is made up of continued membership over the 2-3 year transition period

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, smedly said:

I believe the actual figure is 9B - the other 30B is made up of continued membership over the 2-3 year transition period

Any source for this as my (admittedly limited) understanding was that we would continue to pay the eu during the 'transition period' (which may have no end.....), whilst still paying an addtl. 39 bn to the eu?

 

Regardless, I am still looking for a link to explain the amount that is 'owed' to the eu.

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I think we have to leave now by hook or by crook.

If we don't we will be forever at the mercy of the behemoth

It looks like that, don't see what the Polish blackened death metal band has to do with it, even though Poland is in dispute with EU & Hungry, Italy's not happy, neither is Greece and others.

 

Just best to get out now rather be in a crumbling EU. 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

For a number of Brits GBPTHB hovering around that psychologically important 40 mid-point line. Has TT Exchange broken it?

Yes.

It is going down fast as a Lift.

Bangkok Bank today:

Cash: 39.12

TT: 39.667

By the end of February, if there are no good news, we could test the 38.XX

The Brexit banana stucks full in the back end. 

 

[steve187]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Sorry dear, but we have already had a referendum on that. ????

i am not your dear, there has been no referendum on proportional representation, there was one in 2011 on Av - additional vote, also a suggestion was made for a AV+ in 1998, which never gained much headway, so i stand by my first post. unless you know better with a link rather than just a snide comment

[SheungWan]

34 minutes ago, steve187 said:

i am not your dear, there has been no referendum on proportional representation, there was one in 2011 on Av - additional vote, also a suggestion was made for a AV+ in 1998, which never gained much headway, so i stand by my first post. unless you know better with a link rather than just a snide comment

Pedantic A Go-GO.

[faraday]

It's 40.04 with TransferWise.