Buying a condo: dispute with developer and land office about size

[1haribo]

I have bought a new condo in Jomtien and want the property to be transfered to me from the developer (Heights Holding). I have paid for 24 sqm., and the contract states that I have to pay more if the condo is larger and get refunded if smaller. According to the chanod, the size is a bit larger, so I have pay up. I checked the measurement (as on the chanod) and found it completely wrong. It is not even 23 sqm, so I should get a refund. I asked the developer to do a new measurement, but they said the land office did the official measurement, and they only deal with that. At the land office they said, once the measurement is officially on the chanod, it cannot be changed. I should deal with the developer.

I can prove measurements are wrong, but the developer doesn‘t want want to see my photos, they only care about the official, and faulty, measurement by the land office.

 

Is there anybody out there who has actually checked the measurement on his chanod, and found it wrong?

[Crossy]

Let's try this in the Property Ownership forum.

[Crossy]

Don't forget that the measurement includes any balcony and IIRC half the thickness of the outer walls of the unit.

 

These things can soon add up. It's worth asking the land office for their measurement guidelines (it's going to be in thai of course). You could then re-measure your unit against these guidelines. incidentally, how are you making your measurements?

 

If it is land you can ask the land office for a re-survey (not free), one assumes that you could do that for a condo (no experience there).

 

[Kwasaki]

Why can't you just leave be you thought it was going to be more.

Measurements are always debatable but usually not that far out to worry about, at lest they can't move your boundary post. 

[1haribo]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Don't forget that the measurement includes any balcony and IIRC half the thickness of the outer walls of the unit.

 

These things can soon add up. It's worth asking the land office for their measurement guidelines (it's going to be in thai of course). You could then re-measure your unit against these guidelines. incidentally, how are you making your measurements?

 

If it is land you can ask the land office for a re-survey (not free), one assumes that you could do that for a condo (no experience there).

 

If I account for half the thickness of the outer walls of the unit, this would be more realistic, although there are still some question marks on it.

Sure I included the balcony in the measurement. I have done it with ruler.

[ricklev]

This is a common dispute that any experienced property lawyer has dealt with before.  The lawyer should provide you a free initial consultation and be easily able to answer your questions and be clear about how to proceed and the costs.

 

[Snow Leopard]

I would take into consideration this. How much you paid for the property vs lawyers fees and hassle to get the 1 m2 back in value. 

 

A good point made on the outside measurement being used. Interesting. I thought M2 stated was always measured on the habitable space. 

[1haribo]

5 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

I would take into consideration this. How much you paid for the property vs lawyers fees and hassle to get the 1 m2 back in value. 

 

A good point made on the outside measurement being used. Interesting. I thought M2 stated was always measured on the habitable space. 

The measurement guidelines don't seem to to refer to the habitable space. The drawing on the chanod didn't show any inner walls, so I also ignored them in my measurement. Still, I didn't even think about including half the thickness of the outer walls of the unit

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, 1haribo said:

I have done it with ruler.

Was this ruler long enough to make each measurement in a single measurement?

 

[Peterw42]

OP, how big is the discrepancy ? Less than 1 sqm, multiple sqm ?

Depending on the layout the measurements may include a part of a riser shaft (your pipes etc) that is in your condo.

My condo shows the bathroom as a square room however there is a 20cm x 20cm box in one corner that contains pipes etc. 

[1haribo]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Was this ruler long enough to make each measurement in a single measurement?

 

The ruler is foldable with 10 segments, each 20 cm.

[stud858]

Land office are top of the ladder. There is no going over them it seems for an unfair outcome. I guess ask developer for a compromise and be humble.

[1haribo]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, how big is the discrepancy ? Less than 1 sqm, multiple sqm ?

Depending on the layout the measurements may include a part of a riser shaft (your pipes etc) that is in your condo

The discrepancy to my measurement from wall to wall is a bit over 1 sqm, but  if I account for half the thickness of the outer walls and possibly riser shafts, there may not be much discrepancy at all.

[Tracyb]

OP. If all you have to complain about is a measurement discrepancy of <= 1 sq m.  You should consider yourself well placed in the transaction.  Now go and enjoy your new home!  Cheers,

[Cricky]

the extra size will be noted on the chanoote, in your favour as a resale.

 

I feel you should be more concerned over the Taxes, can you reply with what they are asking?

 

[thaiguzzi]

24 sq metres?

Thats 6 x 4m.

Including a balcony?

And a bathroom?

Surely a spelling mistake?

Can a person actually live in this area?

ShIt, my bedroom is bigger than this.

As is my upstairs balcony and my downstairs veranda.

Jeez talk about living in a shoebox...

 

[newnative]

   Less than a 1 sqm is not worth bothering with.   Strange things can happen with condo measurements, though.  I never did figure out what happened with one of my condo transactions. I was selling a 75 sqm condo and usually the paperwork goes quickly at the Land Office.  This time there was a very long wait and eventually the manager of the condo complex arrived with some blueprints.  Apparently, somewhere there was a discrepancy of 2 sqm and the condo that I always thought was 75 sqm, and was recorded as 75 sqm on the chanote, the Land Office was now saying was 77 sqm.  I guess at some point something got recorded incorrectly and the records didn't match.  Eventually, things finally got sorted and they went with the 77 sqm figure--so the buyer got a bigger condo--on paper.

[melvinmelvin]

I have had a condo with chanot,

for the fun of it I tried to understand the details of the chanot,

re measurements, no way, I spent a long time and much brain power on this,

I just could not arrive at the same figures as in the chanot.

 

mai pen rai, I was not happy or unhappy, I just wanted to understand, but could not

 

anyway,

my idea:

do not buy dreams that are not built in Thailand, especially if you are not Thai.

Limit yourself to buy realised projects, key in door stuff that can be used.

 

 

 

 

[ToddinChonburi]

Your hallway wall probably goes by the outside edge not the center. Could even go by the outer edge of balcony.

[madmen]

when you sell it the new owner will pay the chanot size so why worry?

[david555]

A condo in Thailand is measured as " build ON " x sqm , including part of wall's and even the structure  columns , and water and drainage pipes place .

If re measuring including that , you shall see that they are correct

[Delight]

The land office and the developer will typically  have different measurement policies

 

The developer will refer to the total area that the condo occupies within the building

 

In contrast the L.O. will refer to the area that the owner can legally own

 

what is it that the owner cannot legally own ?

1) Any part of the columns

2) The balcony wall

3) The corridor wall. For reasons of precision they ignore the space that the balcony door occupies

 

What is their logic ?

If you own these items then in theory you can do what you like to them

 

[blackcab]

As has been stated, you need to include half of the width of the walls. There is no overriding the land office measurement, unless you want to pay at your own expense for a new survey. Such a survey will have a waiting period of several weeks or sometimes several months. In the meantime the developer will ask you to pay them the price of the undisputed area (25sqm). You will get a receipt but you will not get the title deed.

 

Once the new survey is carried out, you will be liable for interest and penalties on any outstanding amount, as per your contract. Once this is paid you will be able to receive your title deed.

 

I can assure you that the land office surveyors do not tend to make mistakes. The teams that measure new build condos literally spend every day, for years, measuring new build units with laser measuring equipment.

[SamuiGeezer]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

Was this ruler long enough to make each measurement in a single measurement?

I don't understand your question. I can measure the size of a whole house with a 12" ruler.

[Delight]

2 hours ago, Delight said:

The land office and the developer will typically  have different measurement policies

 

The developer will refer to the total area that the condo occupies within the building

 

In contrast the L.O. will refer to the area that the owner can legally own

 

what is it that the owner cannot legally own ?

1) Any part of the columns

2) The balcony wall

3) The corridor wall. For reasons of precision they exclude the space that the  corridor door occupies

 

What is their logic ?

 

If you own these items then in theory you can do what you like to them

 

 Just to correct my earlier post

[SheungWan]

I would only go to war if my personal measurements were confirmed by an inspection made by my own appointed qualified surveyor. That will cost money and if your measurements are ~ 1 sqm discrepancy, its probably not worth going the next step. 

[JingjoDave]

24 square metres ,,, Hmmmmm are you sure that isn't the wardrobe?

[kannot]

5 hours ago, SamuiGeezer said:

I don't understand your question. I can measure the size of a whole house with a 12" ruler.

yep you dont understand alright , the chance for  error  using a 12"  ruler is way higher than a 6  metre steel  tape

[JingjoDave]

25 minutes ago, kannot said:

yep you dont understand alright , the chance for  error  using a 12"  ruler is way higher than a 6  metre steel  tape

Also measuring in inch's creates it's own problems. Metres or even centimetres are the go when checking the accuracy of a number in square metres.

[Pravda]

16 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

24 sq metres?

Thats 6 x 4m.

Including a balcony?

And a bathroom?

Surely a spelling mistake?

Can a person actually live in this area?

ShIt, my bedroom is bigger than this.

As is my upstairs balcony and my downstairs veranda.

Jeez talk about living in a shoebox...

 

 

Location: Isaan

 

The difference is he still owns his 24sqm, while your wife owns your bedroom, balcony and veranda.