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Previously Illegal Foreign Teacher having Final Pay Problems

AjarnChan
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AjarnChan Explorer Member

AjarnChan

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I have been in Thailand on and off since 1997, living here full time on a series of Non 'O' Visas from Savankhet in Laos since 2008; based on being married to a Thai. In total around 15 years living in the kingdom altogether. I have a Thai wife who long ago persuaded me to be a Teacher, even though she knew it was going to be illegal. Through various Agencies in Phuket I worked almost continuously for the past 11 years. The main Agency kept telling me 'not to worry'; they claimed to have a "Special Exemption" for me, because I am a good teacher and willing to live in out of the way places where nobody else wants to go.

 

Over the years they treated me quite badly at times, but I hung on and kept working. I am now 66, well past normal Thai retirement age, plus the strain of 'hiding' has finally got to me. Also over the past year they cheated me, ripping off 10% of my usual wages. When I complained we had a major row, then when I left they simply began to ignore me. I am still owed around 44,000 Baht, which I badly need. My pay is now one month overdue.

 

They do not answer eMails; I prefer that medium in order to keep a record of their latest Lies. Now I am so frustrated that I am ready to take 'firm action' to bring them to account. I am arranging to see a Thai Lawyer to get advice, plus I humbly seek any suggestions from the experienced users of Thai Visa Forum. Obviously I do not want to go to jail, be deported, or in anyway loose my liberty.

 

However I am so annoyed that I have seriously considered 'turning myself in' to Immigration, just to 'expose the entire sham operation, really to "get even with" the Agency. They are well connected in the South of Thailand and think themselves to be immune.

 

Please feel free to suggest anything, criticize me as much as you like, I never felt happy but I was 'trapped' here. I still am!

 

Many thanks, "Kruu Semi aNonyMous" .. for now  ???? 

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DrJack54 Star Member

DrJack54

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Move on. Nothing good will come from the plans you have suggested. Only one loser in this and its you. The 44k over 11 yrs of working illegally is pittance. 

You know why its pretty safe to rob a drug seller....they can't go to police. That's what your "x boss" is doing to you.

"Turn yourself in" come on, most crazy idea for some time. 

The money is gone also job. Move on, especially at 66

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DrJack54 Star Member

DrJack54

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3 minutes ago, AjarnChan said:

Wise words, if only I could do that .. but I take your point, I am on a hiding to nothing really. I need to THINK .. ????

 

Many thanks ..

 

PS - it isn't really the money, but the 'Principle' of the thing!

First of all you took my suggestion on chin. Seems your a fair man. That's probably why its bugging you so much. I understand the "principle" concern. I once had s3rious issue with a major bank in au. Anyway a mate who is a QC and I were having a beer and I was explaining my problem. I stated its more the PRINCIPLE. He said "Jack, let me get this right...you wish to take one of the BIG 4 to court...get a grip" 

I thought for 2 seconds, felt stupid for suggesting it and got another beer.

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overherebc Diamond Member

overherebc

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11 minutes ago, AjarnChan said:

Wise words, if only I could do that .. but I take your point, I am on a hiding to nothing really. I need to THINK .. ????

 

Many thanks ..

 

PS - it isn't really the money, but the 'Principle' of the thing!

Going outside and banging your head on the wall for 10 minutes would be less painful than trying to get the 44,000.

Seriously.

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Rhys Platinum Member

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Hiya Pardner,  listening, I can sense your irritation, but the THAI System has you by the short and curlies... 

 

Direct your efforts to more useful areas.  All will do is set yourself up for more frustration, is that what your want to achieve?  

 

Put in your complaint and move forward.

 

All the best..

Cheers Mate

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overherebc Diamond Member

overherebc

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14 minutes ago, AjarnChan said:

OK, I am outnumbered, I shall take your advice;  which I really do appreciate. I will leave my 'pot stirring' for after I leave Thailand, probably in a  year or five; if ever ?

 

Many Thanks !  ????

Not directed at you but I've quite a few teachers argue their points against me that 

1 Teachers are not entitled to severence pay.

2 Teachers don't come under labour laws.

3 Teachers really don't need WP's because of 1 and 2 above.

4 Teachers can only get 11 month contracts and must sign a new contract every year.

5 Teachers can work on a 'holiday visa' for 6 months.

etc etc.

Sometimes I think many of them will believe anything.

Edited by overherebc
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AjarnChan Explorer Member

AjarnChan

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24 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

Take them to labour court ! That court isn’t interested in your visa status


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Interesting idea, I shall consider that. Thanks !

 

21 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Not directed at you but I've quite a few teachers argue their points against me that 

1 Teachers are not entitled to severence pay.

2 Teachers don't come under labour laws.

3 Teachers really don't need WP's because of 1 and 2 above.

4 Teachers can only get 11 month contracts and must sign a new contract every year.

5 Teachers can work on a 'holiday visa' for 6 months.

etc etc.

Sometimes I think many of them will believe anything.

It was entirely my wife who did the believing, not me, I assure you. I told her a year before this all started that it must be temporary, because there was no way I wanted to live that way for very long. Yet here I am !

 

But I have to admit that it was so damned easy, with all the schools fully in on the Scam. I even had students whose parents were from Immigration, who I met now and then. No one ever batted an eyelid; I was never challenged or questioned.

 

The really annoying part of this is that I am qualified, but my Uni back in the UK got absorbed and renamed, so it 'vanished'; the Government Records office, the CNAA was wound up, every trace of my achievement almost 5 decades ago was lost.

 

My course is no longer offered, so proving I was ever there became impossible ! I did the course in pieces over several years, slowly amassing Credits, leaving then returning as a mature student, marrying and having two children, sometimes studying at a totally different institution. It got very messy, but I did eventually have a Valid Degree Certificate thought I swear I never got, or I forgot about Transcripts. Such a lot as changed.

 

[ CNAA -> Council For National Academic Awards .. no longer exists ! ]

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jacko45k Star Member

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44,000 baht, you need to let it go. You will spend more than that to get a lawyer's attention, and likely he will be a bigger crook than your agency. If that money is the only problem... fly free!

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JackThompson Platinum Member

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3 hours ago, AjarnChan said:

I have been in Thailand on and off since 1997, living here full time on a series of Non 'O' Visas from Savankhet in Laos since 2008; based on being married to a Thai. In total around 15 years living in the kingdom altogether. I have a Thai wife who long ago persuaded me to be a Teacher, even though she knew it was going to be illegal.

There is nothing illegal about working while on a Non-O Visa based on marriage to a Thai, and one can get a work-permit in this case. 

 

I assume the problem is you did not get a "work permit" - although you could have, except for the lack of a degree-proof?

 

If so, the problem is not with immigration, but with the labor folks.

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TravelerEastWest Gold Member

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35 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

There is nothing illegal about working while on a Non-O Visa based on marriage to a Thai, and one can get a work-permit in this case. 

 

I assume the problem is you did not get a "work permit" - although you could have, except for the lack of a degree-proof?

 

If so, the problem is not with immigration, but with the labor folks.

Exactly and if so you and your employer are in the wrong but worst of all if you had done things correctly you would have been paid more...

 

When you work without a work permit you lose the high ground...

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JackThompson Platinum Member

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44 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Exactly and if so you and your employer are in the wrong but worst of all if you had done things correctly you would have been paid more...

 

When you work without a work permit you lose the high ground...

Yes, but my point was - someone above suggested going to the labor-dept, saying immigration would not be involved.  But, if I am reading this correctly, the OP did not do anything wrong with respect to immigration in the first place (work is permitted on his Visa), but he could have a problem going to the labor dept for a remedy - which takes that option off the table.

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yang123 Advanced Member

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4 hours ago, AjarnChan said:

My course is no longer offered, so proving I was ever there became impossible ! I did the course in pieces over several years, slowly amassing Credits, leaving then returning as a mature student, marrying and having two children, sometimes studying at a totally different institution. It got very messy, but I did eventually have a Valid Degree Certificate thought I swear I never got, or I forgot about Transcripts. Such a lot as changed. [ CNAA -> Council For National Academic Awards .. no longer exists ! ]

Worth a try?  http://www.ntualumni.org.uk/document.doc?id=142

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BertM Rookie Member

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5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

44,000 baht, you need to let it go. You will spend more than that to get a lawyer's attention, and likely he will be a bigger crook than your agency. If that money is the only problem... fly free!

I totally agree with Mr. Jacko45k.

Try to go thru the grief, anger, resentment and acceptance as quick as possible so you can move on with your life.

Life is too short...

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AjarnChan Explorer Member

AjarnChan

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Thanks everyone for the input, you have all really helped me. I will simply write it all off to experience and move on. Though some retribution down the road is always tempting ! I'm an engineer/programmer so lots of options. But I should like to share the tale and prevent others falling into the same trap. especially since I was lucky to be 'under the radar'' during a relatively benign period; such things are treated more harshly and it can all come unravelled much faster now I believe?

 

The frustrating part is that I had a Degree but no 'joined up course records', and certainly no pack of nice neat Transcripts; they were simply not part of the scene way back. In any case I 'built up' my Credits at a total of four different institutions, over a decade. By the time I got to the end of it I was so dizzy, but my final Uni was kind enough to consider me 'Graduated' based on all the parts. However the paper trail was endless, plus as mentioned the earlier Colleges/Unis/Awarding Bodies were 'falling off the map' faster than I could keep up.

 

All water under the bridge now, no excuses just wanted to clarify how it all came about.

 

So far as 'Guilt', then Mea Culpa, but the Agency went to some lengths to keep me tied in, always promising that, "This year we will formailze it all for you. It will be easy." Also it ought not to be forgotten that the various schools were all accomplices, well aware of the overall deception. But time really does fly, 11 years really feels like yesterday.

 

Thanks again, let my tale be salutary warning to another generation, perhaps ?

 

 

                             = = = = =   T H E    E N D  = = = = = 

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AjarnChan Explorer Member

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4 hours ago, yang123 said:

Worth a try?  http://www.ntualumni.org.uk/document.doc?id=142

Thanks, but my problem was that when the CNAA vanished I had not finished, so there was no completed Award to list; only accumulated Credits which were not always transferable.

 

I did the middle chunk through the OU anyway and they were happy enough, but the third segment, at one of the new Unis, was only 'joined up' by goodwill with few surviving databases or documents. Luckily one of my original Lecturers from ten years earlier was still around and vouched for me, or it could all have been a wasted effort.

 

I even have an Honorary Degree, from my days working in China, at the highest levels, but of course none of the much sought after Transcripts came with that either; just a photograph of a handshake from my 'friend'' Deng  Xiaoping. Happy days !

 

Anyway it is all simply far too late now to worry, just a life lesson.

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ubonjoe Legendary Member

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10 hours ago, AjarnChan said:

Thanks again, let my tale be salutary warning to another generation, perhaps ?

 

 

                             = = = = =   T H E    E N D  = = = = = 

After having to remove a few inflammatory posts since the OP posted the above which I consider to be a request for it to be closed. This topic is now :mfr_closed1:

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