UK PM May to EU: Agree to backstop changes or risk disorderly Brexit

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So funny that a minority of Scots think the EU will somehow let them in quick through the back door when the EU have made it very very clear that won't happen.

 

Maybe you need to have a word with the EU, put them right on a few things?

EU negotiator: ‘simple fact’ independent Scotland could join EU

Guy Verhofstadt, who is the European Parliament’s chief negotiator on Brexit, was appearing before the Home Affairs committee in the House of Commons this afternoon when he was challenged by Scottish Conservative MP Douglas Ross on comments he had made on an independent Scotland joining the EU.

 

Mr Ross asked: “In September 2016, you said: ‘If Scotland decides to leave the UK and become an independent state and they decide to be part of the EU, I think there is no big obstacle to do that’. Do you still support that?”

 

Mr Verhofstadt replied: “That is a fact. That’s a simple fact.”

[Mavideol]

5 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I think you'll find that the British people collectively had quite a hand in it too. eg by voting, or not voting, over many years ...

agree, much easier to blame the politicians....wonder who elected them

[Basil B]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

have recognized currency - this can be a bit troublesome, Scottish pounds would hardly do

(suspect some sorting with rest-UK is needed on the monetary/finance side)

(could start from scratch with new currency, Highland Bobs divided into 100 Cheapies,

not relevant, they will have to use the Euro.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

It does show how stupid some Remainers are. These are obviously a very small proportion of them. Not enough to have affected the result though.
The more stupid ones are those who believed in Remain, and still do!


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Suggesting people who have a different political view to yours equates to stupidity is indicative of a narrow low intelligence driven mind.

[Loiner]

Looks like Boris has now evaporated leaving his shambolic mess at the border of his mansion[emoji848] 

Hardly Bojos’ mess, more Theresa and her band of Remainers. She has the responsibility, didn’t really want to Leave anyway, so is making her mess of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Perhaps you think the Scottish budget deficits will be much better once the Westminster handouts are stopped? 

Despite the lack of gratitude over the billions of pounds that your country has stolen from mine over the lifetime the soon to be ended UK, we will still help you struggle through your post Brexit recession.

 

[soalbundy]

Now she has another red line to drop.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Maybe you need to have a word with the EU, put them right on a few things?

EU negotiator: ‘simple fact’ independent Scotland could join EU

Guy Verhofstadt, who is the European Parliament’s chief negotiator on Brexit, was appearing before the Home Affairs committee in the House of Commons this afternoon when he was challenged by Scottish Conservative MP Douglas Ross on comments he had made on an independent Scotland joining the EU.

 

Mr Ross asked: “In September 2016, you said: ‘If Scotland decides to leave the UK and become an independent state and they decide to be part of the EU, I think there is no big obstacle to do that’. Do you still support that?”

 

Mr Verhofstadt replied: “That is a fact. That’s a simple fact.”

 

Perhaps you should read what Mr. Juncker said after he met Sturgeon. And what Mr. Tusk said after he declined to meet her.

 

Mr. Verhofstadt gave a good politicians answer to a crude attempt at a leading question. Is he saying it's a fact he said that? 

And of course there's no big obstacle for any independent European country applying to join - just meet the criteria! Including the budgetary and financial requirements.

[melvinmelvin]

11 minutes ago, Basil B said:

not relevant, they will have to use the Euro.

relevant indeed

 

not necessarily so,

after membership Euro, yes, to the extent that Scotland qualify financially

 

currency is needed before you get that far

 

[Basil B]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Maybe you need to have a word with the EU, put them right on a few things?

EU negotiator: ‘simple fact’ independent Scotland could join EU

Guy Verhofstadt, who is the European Parliament’s chief negotiator on Brexit, was appearing before the Home Affairs committee in the House of Commons this afternoon when he was challenged by Scottish Conservative MP Douglas Ross on comments he had made on an independent Scotland joining the EU.

 

Mr Ross asked: “In September 2016, you said: ‘If Scotland decides to leave the UK and become an independent state and they decide to be part of the EU, I think there is no big obstacle to do that’. Do you still support that?”

 

Mr Verhofstadt replied: “That is a fact. That’s a simple fact.”

I do agree that if Scotland were to split from the the kingdom that they would find it easy to align the EU requirement, the only problem would be the boarder, but then all they would have to do is copy the Irish solution what ever that maybe...

[Basil B]

posted in error...

Edited March 8, 2019 by Basil B

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Despite the lack of gratitude over the billions of pounds that your country has stolen from mine over the lifetime the soon to be ended UK, we will still help you struggle through your post Brexit recession.

 

 

Would that be England, Mercia, Northumberland, Wessex or the UK you're referring to?

 

You really think Scotland has such wealth over the centuries?

 

The oil btw is British, discovered and financed by the UK.

 

Scotland has enjoyed being subsidized by the British tax payers for years. And a minority ungratefully moan about it. Usually the ones who want to pretend the "legends" created and marketed in Victorian times as reality.

 

Reality check needed. The SNP ain't gonna dictate to the rest of the UK whatever happens.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

relevant indeed

 

not necessarily so,

after membership Euro, yes, to the extent that Scotland qualify financially

 

currency is needed before you get that far

 

 

You are right. When challenged before Scotland's deluded first minister claimed they'd just do a deal and carry on using the GBP - only she never spoke to the Bank of England or the UK government first! Just like she claimed at one point she had the power to veto Brexit! 

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland, a business, propped up by massive loans funded by the British taxpayer is one of the issuer of Scottish bank notes. Watch Scotland's banking system collapse if the loans are called in.

 

The SNP former leader, currently under criminal investigation for sex crimes, stated that oil would never be "below USD 100 per barrel.

 

The SNP's only choice would be to fund things through massive increases in taxation. 

 

Would you want to bet on a independent Scottish currency or on Scotland achieving the EU membership and Euro financial criteria?

[Baerboxer]

13 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I do agree that if Scotland were to split from the the kingdom that they would find it easy to align the EU requirement, the only problem would be the boarder, but then all they would have to do is copy the Irish solution what ever that maybe...

 

How do you think an independent Scotland would meet the financial criteria required of all prospective EU candidates? 

What currency will they be using?

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Would that be England, Mercia, Northumberland, Wessex or the UK you're referring to?

 

You really think Scotland has such wealth over the centuries?

 

The oil btw is British, discovered and financed by the UK.

 

Scotland has enjoyed being subsidized by the British tax payers for years. And a minority ungratefully moan about it. Usually the ones who want to pretend the "legends" created and marketed in Victorian times as reality.

 

Reality check needed. The SNP ain't gonna dictate to the rest of the UK whatever happens.

To be honest, all your willy waving has been tiresome since long before 2014 and it wasn't very impressive before then either. 

Scotland is a net contributor to the exchequer - that you refuse to believe me, despite the ample evidence to back that up, is up to you. Your lack of gratitude is neither here nor there - I am just looking forward to us no longer being burdened by such ingrates, allowing us to concentrate on bettering our country and undoing the damage that being in the union has inflicted upon it. 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

How do you think an independent Scotland would meet the financial criteria required of all prospective EU candidates? 

What currency will they be using?

Well we have the pound at present - we could continue to use that. Alternatively we could establish a new Scottish currency. 

[Baerboxer]

38 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Good god, are there still some people struggling to get past this queue nonsense? Turkey applied to join the EU in 1987. Are you seriously trying to suggest that there has been a log jam since then, and that no other country has joined in the past 32 years?

 

No, I'm not suggesting other countries haven't joined. However there is a queue.

 

"There are five recognised candidates for future membership of the European Union:Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004),Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations." Source: Wiki.

Iceland also applied for full membership in July 2009. 

 

Doesn't appear to be a quick process does it?

 

And what currency do you think an independent Scotland will be using? Smackeronies?

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Well we have the pound at present - we could continue to use that. Alternatively we could establish a new Scottish currency. 

 

Wouldn't be Scotland's choice to carry on using the pound sterling. That would be decision for the British government advised by the Bank of England.

 

A new Scottish currency - guaranteed by what? An independent Scotland wouldn't have an established central bank. One of it's main bank note issuing private banks is massively in debt to the British (that includes Scottish) taxpayer and is still in a right mess. 

 

A new Scottish currency would be weak which would help with tourism and exports but wouldn't help meeting EU membership requirements.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No, I'm not suggesting other countries haven't joined. However there is a queue.

 

"There are five recognised candidates for future membership of the European Union:Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004),Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations." Source: Wiki.

Iceland also applied for full membership in July 2009. 

 

Doesn't appear to be a quick process does it?

 

It appears to be as quick as the applicant countries take to meet the entry criteria. Having been a very willing member for 40 plus years, and 74% of the population still demonstrating a wish to remain in the EU, I don't think I am going out on a limb here by suggesting that Scotland will find the process more smooth and quicker than the likes of Albania or Macedonia. 

 

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

And what currency do you think an independent Scotland will be using? Smackeronies?

No, we are going to trade in Jimmy hats, empty irn bru bottles and any other tired old stereotypes you want to throw in.

[Baerboxer]

52 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

agree, not 500 miles away from home

some stuff must be done, take a quick look in the treaty of treaties

it contains a set of reasonably objective criteria to be met in order

to be considered a sovereign nation state

 

borders must be recognized by others, not disputed

some means to defend the borders and control borders,

(means some kind of army/police and ships+navy/coast guard)

have recognized currency - this can be a bit troublesome, Scottish pounds would hardly do

(suspect some sorting with rest-UK is needed on the monetary/finance side)

(could start from scratch with new currency, Highland Bobs divided into 100 Cheapies,

maybe continuing to use GBP could be negotiated,

maybe linking Highland Bobs strictly to GBP could be done,

there are some countries outside of US that use US dollars as currency

food for thought)

police - law - order

some other bits, can't be bothered to search right now

 

guess it would be wise to apply for UN, WTO and Council of Europe membership

 

EU:

Scotland should be familar with that

some kind of democratic national assembly and governing system would be needed

lots of work to be fixed on the legal side, but Scottish politicians are aware of that,

all directives etc etc.

 

embarking on this, excellent opportunity for developing a corpse of skilled bureaucrats

 

just a wee taste this

 

 

 

Google the list of current EU applicants and see how long they've been in process for.

 

Some Scots, a minority, think they can just dictate to the rest of the UK btw, They can't. 4 countries make up the UK. There is no provision for one to simply decide to leave unilaterally. Despite all the huff and puff from some Scottish national socialist politicians!

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No, I'm not suggesting other countries haven't joined. However there is a queue.

 

"There are five recognised candidates for future membership of the European Union:Turkey (applied on 14 April 1987), Macedonia (applied on 22 March 2004),Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All except Albania and Macedonia have started accession negotiations." Source: Wiki.

Iceland also applied for full membership in July 2009. 

 

Doesn't appear to be a quick process does it?

 

And what currency do you think an independent Scotland will be using? Smackeronies?

Scotland has one big advantage though, compared to the others (except Iceland, I thought Iceland had stalled her application?)

in your list above:

I mentioned this already in my intervention higher up where I mentioned the treaty of treaties criteria:

Scottish politicians should know very well what is required on the legal side re EU membership,

and they should know what is needed re democratic national assembly/state administration/governing system

separation of lawmaking/judicial system/police etc

They can have their house pretty ship shape when their time comes, if ever.

 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Google the list of current EU applicants and see how long they've been in process for.

 

Some Scots, a minority, think they can just dictate to the rest of the UK btw, They can't. 4 countries make up the UK. There is no provision for one to simply decide to leave unilaterally. Despite all the huff and puff from some Scottish national socialist politicians!

So, just to clarify my understanding on your position, you are comfortable that your country can force my country to withdraw from a union that we strongly want to remain in, but my country cannot withdraw from the UK or even have the opportunity to put it to a plebiscite, despite the SG having 2 clear and unambiguous mandates to do so?

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by RuamRudy

[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You are right. When challenged before Scotland's deluded first minister claimed they'd just do a deal and carry on using the GBP - only she never spoke to the Bank of England or the UK government first! Just like she claimed at one point she had the power to veto Brexit! 

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland, a business, propped up by massive loans funded by the British taxpayer is one of the issuer of Scottish bank notes. Watch Scotland's banking system collapse if the loans are called in.

 

The SNP former leader, currently under criminal investigation for sex crimes, stated that oil would never be "below USD 100 per barrel.

 

The SNP's only choice would be to fund things through massive increases in taxation. 

 

Would you want to bet on a independent Scottish currency or on Scotland achieving the EU membership and Euro financial criteria?

who? me?

I am afraid I am left to suffer with my weak Norwegian oil dollars.

 

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It appears to be as quick as the applicant countries take to meet the entry criteria. Having been a very willing member for 40 plus years, and 74% of the population still demonstrating a wish to remain in the EU, I don't think I am going out on a limb here by suggesting that Scotland will find the process more smooth and quicker than the likes of Albania or Macedonia. 

 

No, we are going to trade in Jimmy hats, empty irn bru bottles and any other tired old stereotypes you want to throw in.

 

Same old SNP style dismissal of reality.

 

Reality - Scotland is a part of a country called the UK. It doesn't matter what % of people in Scotland or any other part of the UK want to remain because of the flawed advisory referendum which ignore our representative democracy process which gives a better across the board representation of views.

 

Scotland is not and has not been a member of the EU at all. It is not a sovereign nation.

 

Your believe, is too be honest, wishful thinking. Have you ever seen a clear plan from any Scottish political party demonstrating precisely how all the criteria could be met?

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

who? me?

I am afraid I am left to suffer with my weak Norwegian oil dollars.

 

 

Actually, Norway probably has more issues to worry about than it's currency!

 

But who knows, the Shetlands and Orkneys might prefer to a) remain part of the UK or b) join Norway. Scottish nationalists simply assume these people will want to join them!

Edited March 8, 2019 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So, just to clarify my understanding on your position, you are comfortable that your country can force my country to withdraw from a union that we strongly want to remain in, but my country cannot withdraw from the UK or even have the opportunity to put it to a plebiscite?

 

 

Unless you have given up British nationality then like me, you are a British citizen as defined on your passport.

 

Scotland, Wales, Inner London, the Isle of Shepey, Manchester or any other area cannot simply make a UDI. That could only happen with the consent of the government, and that is the government of the UK.

 

No matter how people want to re-write history and pretend otherwise, that's the situation we find ourselves in.

 

I do not consider it democracy for any small group in any country to try and dictate their will on the entire population of that country. 

 

First a majority of Scots would have to want to leave the UK. If that was the case the rest of the UK would have to agree. All the people are affected and have an interest.

[Baerboxer]

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Scotland has one big advantage though, compared to the others (except Iceland, I thought Iceland had stalled her application?)

in your list above:

I mentioned this already in my intervention higher up where I mentioned the treaty of treaties criteria:

Scottish politicians should know very well what is required on the legal side re EU membership,

and they should know what is needed re democratic national assembly/state administration/governing system

separation of lawmaking/judicial system/police etc

They can have their house pretty ship shape when their time comes, if ever.

 

 

Politicians and bureaucrats know the EU and its treaties very well. Despite the more dictatorial tendencies of the SNP at times, Scots wouldn't accept anything less than a fully functioning democracy. How the second house would be formed is open to debate.

 

It's the financial requirements that would be challenging. And meeting them isn't going to happen overnight. Some Scottish politicians think they can just tell the British government what they want and that's how it will be. It won't.

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

Looks like Boris has now evaporated leaving his shambolic mess at the border of his mansion???? 

Let's hope he stays that way, for the sake of the the whole world let alone the UK.

[Topdoc]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I suggest that you read a little more. Have a look at how the U.K. GDP has performed since we joined.

Firstly, GDP is an unreliable indicator of economic prosperity. If the EU had some intelligence and measured the Marginal Productivity of Debt instead, they would realise that they are sleepwalking into economic collapse.

 

Secondly, why did the ECB, whose balance sheet now represents a staggering 40.5% of Europe's GDP, launch another monetary stimulus yesterday (quasi QE) in the form of TLTRO (targeted longer-term refinancing operations) to fight the growing Eurozone slowdown just months after ending its AP (asset purchase-QE) in December 2018?

 

Thirdly, according to free-market economist Patrick Minford, The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) costs the UK 0.5 per cent of GDP, and in economic and budgetary terms is probably the most costly factor of EU membership.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Topdoc

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Suggesting people who have a different political view to yours equates to stupidity is indicative of a narrow low intelligence driven mind.

Agree entirely ????!