webfact Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 UPDATE: Regulators ground the Boeing 737 Max 8, but not in Thailand By The Thaiger PHOTO: Thai Lion Air won’t be grounding their Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft -- The digital flight data recorder for Flight ET302 from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to Nairobi, Kenya was located yesterday morning -- Citizens of 35 countries are among the 157 people killed, including 32 Kenyans, 18 Canadians, nine Ethiopians and eight passengers each from China, Italy and the US -- Multiple airlines have grounded Boeing’s 737 Max 8 aircraft Singapore’s aviation regulators have now grounded the Boeing 737 Max 8. The Singaporean aviation authority has temporarily barred all variants of the 737 Max 8 from entering or leaving the city-state. Along with Singapore, the following airlines and jurisdictions have announced they are temporarily not using the 737 Max 8: China, Indonesia, Ethiopian Airlines, Aeromexico, Cayman Airways, Comair Airways and Aerolíneas Argentinas. Meanwhile, Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8. Only Thai Lion Air flies the now controversial aircraft in Thailand. Full story: https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/update-regulators-ground-the-boeing-737-max-8-but-not-in-thailand -- © Copyright The Thaiger 2019-03-12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post toenail Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) ??? ????Can we trust what FAA says about the Boeing 737 Max 8 being safe??? The head administrator, Daniel Elwell,(appointed by clueless Trump), once worked as a senior vice president at Airlines for America (A4A), the largest lobbyist group serving the airline industry? What side of the fence would he be on? Safety first or supporting Boeing? [emoji928][emoji929][emoji929] Edited March 12, 2019 by toenail spelling 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BuckBee Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Well best people use their own due diligence and avoid higher risk flights, thai lion being near top of the list lol ... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gk10002000 Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 I got to tell you that as an engineer that tests and has tested avionics software for 20 years, including the 787, X-47B, CH-53, Global Hawk and numerous other programs, I don't' like Boeing's answer to the issue and the directive and instructions the FAA issued earlier for a "fix" or procedural work around. Angle of Attack (AOA) is not something to monkey around with. Fly by wire systems have tons of advantages, but I am still old school and want a lot of manual over ride available. Many aircraft have crashed in recent years due to pilot confusion, misunderstood data and displays, etc. 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post worgeordie Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, webfact said: Meanwhile, Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8. Only Thai Lion Air flies the now controversial aircraft in Thailand. Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World???? regards worgeordie 4 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdoc Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 More and more countries are grounding this plane. The list so far: China (yesterday) Indonesia (yesterday) Singapore (today) Australia (today) Malaysia (today, just reported a few minutes ago) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realfunster Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Topdoc said: More and more countries are grounding this plane. The list so far: China (yesterday) Indonesia (yesterday) Singapore (today) Australia (today) Malaysia (today, just reported a few minutes ago) UK just joined the club as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Artisi Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, worgeordie said: Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World???? regards worgeordie Of course, flying is different in Thailand - Farangs don't understand. 4 2 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, worgeordie said: Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World???? regards worgeordie Nonsense, also allowed in US, Europe and others. I think it should be banned, if only due to customer mistrust and uncertainty about the 2 crashes, but your Thai bashing is baseless here. Edited March 12, 2019 by stevenl 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DrTuner Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Thai Lion Air .. avoided it and will do so in the future as well. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, worgeordie said: Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World???? regards worgeordie Is it Thailand or only Thai Lion Air. It is a somewhat foolish attitude as apart from the Ethiopian crash the only other Max 8 crash back in October 2018 belonged to Lion Air. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post worgeordie Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, stevenl said: Nonsense, also allowed in US, Europe and others. I think it should be banned, if only due to customer mistrust and uncertainty about the 2 crashes, but your Thai bashing is baseless here. Would you honestly fly in a Boeing 737 max 8 aircraft until they have rectified the problems that the aircraft reportedly has,until Boeing fixes the problem,I think,as well as more and more carriers that the planes should be grounded,but Thailand does not,nothing to do with Thai bashing,just common sense.not too common here with regards to safety,on roads,air and on the water.not bashing, fact. regards worgeordie 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, worgeordie said: Would you honestly fly in a Boeing 737 max 8 aircraft until they have rectified the problems that the aircraft reportedly has,until Boeing fixes the problem,I think,as well as more and more carriers that the planes should be grounded,but Thailand does not,nothing to do with Thai bashing,just common sense.not too common here with regards to safety,on roads,air and on the water.not bashing, fact. regards worgeordie I will not fly 737 Max. You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand. You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not. Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense. Edited March 12, 2019 by stevenl 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post worgeordie Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, stevenl said: I will not fly 737 Max. You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand. You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not. Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense. Just checked on the Boeing site for operators of 737 Max 8,in Europe only small Norwegian carrier and Ryan Air, no main carriers operating that aircraft, Boeing been a US company ,could that be a reason they have not stopped flights there ?, like car manufacturers that still rolled out cars that they knew were faulty and causing deaths. try and look beyond perceived Thai bashing ,which you seem to be critizeing posters quite often for,I have noticed, when something is stupid,does not make sense,people are going to have their views about such things. regards worgeordie 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, worgeordie said: Just checked on the Boeing site for operators of 737 Max 8,in Europe only small Norwegian carrier and Ryan Air, no main carriers operating that aircraft, Boeing been a US company ,could that be a reason they have not stopped flights there ?, like car manufacturers that still rolled out cars that they knew were faulty and causing deaths. try and look beyond perceived Thai bashing ,which you seem to be critizeing posters quite often for,I have noticed, when something is stupid,does not make sense,people are going to have their views about such things. regards worgeordie You forgot Iceland air, TUI and Corendon. Maybe more. And Ryan Air not a main carrier? Wiggle all you want, your post 'thailand thinks it knows better than the world' was incorrect, nonsense. Edited March 12, 2019 by stevenl 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcnx Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, stevenl said: I will not fly 737 Max. You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand. You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not. Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense. Who do you trust to have the best safety standards and checks on this aircraft, Thailand or the USA and EU? That’s what I thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, dcnx said: Who do you trust to have the best safety standards and checks on this aircraft, Thailand or the USA and EU? That’s what I thought. Which is why Thailand is following US in not banning. Not wise imo, but the usual Thai bashing is uncalled for. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Youlike Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, stevenl said: I will not fly 737 Max. You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand. You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not. Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense. You're posting absolute nonsense... France and Germany also banned this plane. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/bans-boeing-737-max-rolled-world-190312134422968.htm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Youlike said: You're posting absolute nonsense... France and Germany also banned this plane. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/bans-boeing-737-max-rolled-world-190312134422968.htm Yes, they grounded after I reacted to his nonsense. So far Thailand has been following, let's see what happens tomorrow with both FAA, European regulators and Thai reaction. My guess is Thailand will keep following, when they should be more active. Main mistakes were imo made by Boeing and FAA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youlike Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevenl said: Yes, they grounded after I reacted to his nonsense. So far Thailand has been following, let's see what happens tomorrow with both FAA, European regulators and Thai reaction. My guess is Thailand will keep following, when they should be more active. Main mistakes were imo made by Boeing and FAA. Thailand is still not on that list while loads of Asian countries are.... But we all know how the Thai think about safety...that's not thai bashing but the truth... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Youlike said: Thailand is still not on that list while loads of Asian countries are.... But we all know how the Thai think about safety...that's not thai bashing but the truth... And other Asian countries are not, neither is US, Canada, Europe only individual countries, aviation regulator is still allowing. But you're distracting from my original post: saying 'only Thailand is not banning, as usual Thai know better' is simply nonsense when at that time US, Canada, all of Europe and many others Re not banning. And that is what I said, so I'm out of here. Edited March 12, 2019 by stevenl 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wayned Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Thai regulators have not grounded the Max 8 since it seems to have the potential of grounding itself so why do the paperwork. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisperone Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Why up until now have we still not heard what the pilots were communicating to ground about what was going on in this plane. It's too mum for me. I would stay off this model plane. 2 crashes on takeoffs in a matter of months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackcab Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I have just read that the EU and India have grounded these planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 12 hours ago, gk10002000 said: I got to tell you that as an engineer that tests and has tested avionics software for 20 years, including the 787, X-47B, CH-53, Global Hawk and numerous other programs, I don't' like Boeing's answer to the issue and the directive and instructions the FAA issued earlier for a "fix" or procedural work around. Angle of Attack (AOA) is not something to monkey around with. Fly by wire systems have tons of advantages, but I am still old school and want a lot of manual over ride available. Many aircraft have crashed in recent years due to pilot confusion, misunderstood data and displays, etc. So true all of the above. I was always of the belief that the credo of pilots was "when in trouble aviate first". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, car720 said: So true all of the above. I was always of the belief that the credo of pilots was "when in trouble aviate first". I have heard that too. Makes sense. If trouble appears get some height to give you time to react and rectify. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAG Posted March 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, stevenl said: I will not fly 737 Max. You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand. You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not. Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense. Umh - if I may quote: "Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8." "Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World." To accuse "Worgeordie" of Thai bashing based on that rather perceptive observation, and using pedantry based upon an unfolding scenario, with new nation's and agencies adding bans on the aircraft almost hourly, to justify that accusation is frankly silly, and naive. God forbid there is another crash, Thailand’s aviation regulator (and you) will look... Edited March 13, 2019 by JAG 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPKANKAN Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 This report is old hat. Far more countries have banned the plane now than noted in this little notice!@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helloagain Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 13 hours ago, BuckBee said: Well best people use their own due diligence and avoid higher risk flights, thai lion being near top of the list lol ... Yes they are now doomed 55555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKKBike09 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Aircraft/engine make, model, and series: The Boeing Company Model 737-8 and 737-9 airplanes (737 MAX) U.S.-registered fleet: 74 airplanes; Worldwide fleet: 387 airplanes Operators: 59 operators worldwide: 9 Air, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeromexico, Air Canada, Air China, Air Fiji, AIR ITALY S.P.A., American Airlines, Arkefly, Britannia Airways AB, Cayman Airways, China Eastern Airlines, China Southern Airlines, Comair, COPA Airlines, Corendon Airlines, Eastar Jet, Enter Air Sp. Z O.O., Ethiopian Airlines, Fertitta Enterprises, Inc., flydubai, Fuzhou Airlines Co., Ltd, Garuda Indonesia, Gol Linhas Aereas S.A., Hainan Airlines, Icelandair, Jet Airways, Jet Aviation Business Jets, JSC Aircompany SCAT, Kunming Airlines, Lion Air, Globus Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines, Lucky Air, Mauritania Airlines, Mongolian Airlines MIAT, Norwegian Air International Lt, Norwegian Air Norway, Norwegian Air Shuttle AS, Norwegian Air Sweden, Okay Airways Company Limited, Oman Air, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Shandong Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Shenzhen Airlines, SilkAir, Smartwings, Southwest Airlines, SpiceJet, Sunwing Airlines Inc., Thai Lion, TUI Airlines Belgium, TUI Airways, Turkish Airlines (THY), United Airlines, WestJet, Xiamen Airlines Back in November the FAA issued an emergency Airworthiness Directive "prompted by analysis performed by the manufacturer showing that if an erroneously high single angle of attack (AOA) sensor input is received by the flight control system, there is a potential for repeated nose-down trim commands of the horizontal stabilizer. We are issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products." Appears that there was potential for the aircraft systems to get misleading AOA data (exceeding critical AOA = potential stall), prompting the systems to try and lower the a/c nose to reduce AOA. Of course if the AOA was not excessive, then there'd be too much nose down pitch. Not such a problem with altitude in hand but on rotation / climb out ... If pilots facing this situation are not fully trained to a) understand what's happening and b) how to correct, then that's not good. The question to ask is this: if I'm flying on one of these aircraft, do I feel confident that the operator has acted upon the November 2018 AD and has also ensured all crews have received appropriate simulator training. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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