UPDATE: Regulators ground the Boeing 737 Max 8, but not in Thailand

By The Thaiger

 

PHOTO: Thai Lion Air won’t be grounding their Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft

 

-- The digital flight data recorder for Flight ET302 from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to Nairobi, Kenya was located yesterday morning

-- Citizens of 35 countries are among the 157 people killed, including 32 Kenyans, 18 Canadians, nine Ethiopians and eight passengers each from China, Italy and the US

-- Multiple airlines have grounded Boeing’s 737 Max 8 aircraft

 

Singapore’s aviation regulators have now grounded the Boeing 737 Max 8. The Singaporean aviation authority has temporarily barred all variants of the 737 Max 8 from entering or leaving the city-state.

 

Along with Singapore, the following airlines and jurisdictions have announced they are temporarily not using the 737 Max 8: China, Indonesia, Ethiopian Airlines, Aeromexico, Cayman Airways, Comair Airways and Aerolíneas Argentinas.

 

Meanwhile, Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8. Only Thai Lion Air flies the now controversial aircraft in Thailand.

 

Full story: https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/update-regulators-ground-the-boeing-737-max-8-but-not-in-thailand

 

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2019-03-12

??? ????Can we trust what FAA says about the Boeing 737 Max 8 being safe??? The head administrator, Daniel Elwell,(appointed by clueless Trump), once worked as a senior vice president at Airlines for America (A4A), the largest lobbyist group serving the airline industry? What side of the fence would  he be on? Safety first or supporting Boeing? [emoji928][emoji929][emoji929]

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by toenail
spelling

Well best people use their own due diligence and avoid higher risk flights, thai lion being near top of the list lol ...

I got to tell you that as an engineer that tests and has tested avionics software for 20 years, including the 787, X-47B, CH-53, Global Hawk and numerous other programs, I don't' like Boeing's answer to the issue and the directive and instructions the FAA issued earlier for a "fix" or procedural work around.  Angle of Attack (AOA) is not something to monkey around with.  Fly by wire systems have tons of advantages, but I am still old school and want a lot of manual over ride available.  Many aircraft have crashed in recent years due to pilot confusion, misunderstood data and displays, etc.

4 hours ago, webfact said:

 

Meanwhile, Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8. Only Thai Lion Air flies the now controversial aircraft in Thailand.

Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World????

regards worgeordie

More and more countries are grounding this plane. The list so far:

China (yesterday)
Indonesia (yesterday)
Singapore (today)
Australia (today)
Malaysia (today, just reported a few minutes ago)

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

More and more countries are grounding this plane. The list so far:

China (yesterday)
Indonesia (yesterday)
Singapore (today)
Australia (today)
Malaysia (today, just reported a few minutes ago)

UK just joined the club as well. 

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World????

regards worgeordie

Of course, flying is different in Thailand - Farangs don't understand. 

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World????

regards worgeordie

Nonsense, also allowed in US, Europe and others.

 

I think it should be banned, if only due to customer mistrust and uncertainty about the 2 crashes, but your Thai bashing is baseless here.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by stevenl

Thai Lion Air .. avoided it and will do so in the future as well. 

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World????

regards worgeordie

Is it Thailand or only Thai Lion Air.

 

It is a somewhat foolish attitude as apart from the Ethiopian crash the only other Max 8 crash back in October 2018 belonged to Lion Air.

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Nonsense, also allowed in US, Europe and others.

 

I think it should be banned, if only due to customer mistrust and uncertainty about the 2 crashes, but your Thai bashing is baseless here.

Would you honestly fly in a Boeing 737 max 8 aircraft until they 

have rectified the problems that the aircraft reportedly has,until

Boeing fixes the problem,I think,as well as more and more carriers

that the planes should be grounded,but Thailand does not,nothing

to do with Thai bashing,just common sense.not too common here

with regards to safety,on roads,air and on the water.not bashing, fact. 

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Would you honestly fly in a Boeing 737 max 8 aircraft until they 

have rectified the problems that the aircraft reportedly has,until

Boeing fixes the problem,I think,as well as more and more carriers

that the planes should be grounded,but Thailand does not,nothing

to do with Thai bashing,just common sense.not too common here

with regards to safety,on roads,air and on the water.not bashing, fact. 

 

regards worgeordie

I will not fly 737 Max.

 

You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand.

You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not.

 

Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by stevenl

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I will not fly 737 Max.

 

You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand.

You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not.

 

Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense.

Just checked on the Boeing site for operators of 737 Max 8,in Europe only small Norwegian carrier and Ryan Air,

no main carriers operating that aircraft, Boeing been a US company ,could that be a reason they have not stopped

flights there ?, like car manufacturers that still rolled out cars that they knew were faulty and causing deaths.

try and look beyond perceived Thai bashing ,which you seem to be critizeing posters quite often for,I have noticed,

when something is stupid,does not make sense,people are going to have their views about such things.

 

regards worgeordie

6 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Just checked on the Boeing site for operators of 737 Max 8,in Europe only small Norwegian carrier and Ryan Air,

no main carriers operating that aircraft, Boeing been a US company ,could that be a reason they have not stopped

flights there ?, like car manufacturers that still rolled out cars that they knew were faulty and causing deaths.

try and look beyond perceived Thai bashing ,which you seem to be critizeing posters quite often for,I have noticed,

when something is stupid,does not make sense,people are going to have their views about such things.

 

regards worgeordie

You forgot Iceland air, TUI and Corendon. Maybe more. And Ryan Air not a main carrier?

 

Wiggle all you want, your post 'thailand thinks it knows better than the world' was incorrect, nonsense.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by stevenl

33 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I will not fly 737 Max.

 

You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand.

You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not.

 

Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense.

Who do you trust to have the best safety standards and checks on this aircraft, Thailand or the USA and EU?

 

That’s what I thought.

5 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Who do you trust to have the best safety standards and checks on this aircraft, Thailand or the USA and EU?

 

That’s what I thought.

Which is why Thailand is following US in not banning. Not wise imo, but the usual Thai bashing is uncalled for.

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

I will not fly 737 Max.

 

You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand.

You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not.

 

Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense.

You're posting absolute nonsense...

 

France and Germany also banned this plane.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/bans-boeing-737-max-rolled-world-190312134422968.htm

4 minutes ago, Youlike said:

You're posting absolute nonsense...

 

France and Germany also banned this plane.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/03/bans-boeing-737-max-rolled-world-190312134422968.htm

Yes, they grounded after I reacted to his nonsense. So far Thailand has been following, let's see what happens tomorrow with both FAA,  European regulators and Thai reaction. My guess is Thailand will keep following, when they should be more active. Main mistakes were imo made by Boeing and FAA.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, they grounded after I reacted to his nonsense. So far Thailand has been following, let's see what happens tomorrow with both FAA,  European regulators and Thai reaction. My guess is Thailand will keep following, when they should be more active. Main mistakes were imo made by Boeing and FAA.

Thailand is still not on that list while loads of Asian countries are....

 

But we all know how the Thai think about safety...that's not thai bashing but the truth...

10 minutes ago, Youlike said:

Thailand is still not on that list while loads of Asian countries are....

 

But we all know how the Thai think about safety...that's not thai bashing but the truth...

And other Asian countries are not, neither is US, Canada, Europe only individual countries, aviation regulator is still allowing.

 

But you're distracting from my original post: saying 'only Thailand is not banning, as usual Thai know better' is simply nonsense when at that time US, Canada, all of Europe and many others Re not banning.

 

And that is what I said, so I'm out of here.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by stevenl

 Thai regulators have not grounded the Max 8 since it seems to have the potential of grounding itself so why do the paperwork.

Why up until now have we still not heard what the pilots were communicating to ground about what was going on in this plane.  It's too mum for me. I would stay off this model plane. 2 crashes on takeoffs in a matter of months. 

I have just read that the EU and India have grounded these planes.

3 minutes ago, car720 said:

So true all of the above.  I was always of the belief that the credo of pilots was "when in trouble aviate first".

I have heard that too. Makes sense. If trouble appears get some height to give you time to react and rectify.

9 hours ago, stevenl said:

I will not fly 737 Max.

 

You're claiming Thailand thinks it knows better than the world, when at the same time US and Europe do the same as Thailand.

You call it 'no Thai bashing', but it clearly is. And sometimes Thai bashing is justified, here it clearly is not.

 

Your post was simply incorrect, nonsense.

Umh - if I may quote:

"Thailand’s aviation regulator has scoffed at Chinese regulator’s lead in grounding the Chinese Boeing 737 Max 8."

 

"Another case of Thailand knows better than the rest of the World."

 

To accuse "Worgeordie" of Thai bashing based on that rather perceptive observation, and using pedantry based upon an unfolding scenario, with new nation's and agencies adding bans on the aircraft almost hourly, to justify that accusation is frankly silly, and naive.

 

God forbid there is another crash, Thailand’s aviation regulator (and you) will look...

 

 

Edited March 13, 20197 yr by JAG

This report is old hat. Far more countries have banned the plane now than noted in this little notice!@

13 hours ago, BuckBee said:

Well best people use their own due diligence and avoid higher risk flights, thai lion being near top of the list lol ...

Yes they are now doomed 55555

Aircraft/engine make, model, and series: The Boeing Company Model 737-8 and 737-9 airplanes (737 MAX)

U.S.-registered fleet: 74 airplanes; Worldwide fleet: 387 airplanes

 

Operators: 59 operators worldwide: 9 Air, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeromexico, Air Canada, Air China, Air Fiji, AIR ITALY S.P.A., American Airlines, Arkefly, Britannia Airways AB, Cayman Airways, China Eastern Airlines, China Southern Airlines, Comair, COPA Airlines, Corendon Airlines, Eastar Jet, Enter Air Sp. Z O.O., Ethiopian Airlines, Fertitta Enterprises, Inc., flydubai, Fuzhou Airlines Co., Ltd, Garuda Indonesia, Gol Linhas Aereas S.A., Hainan Airlines, Icelandair, Jet Airways, Jet Aviation Business Jets, JSC Aircompany SCAT, Kunming Airlines, Lion Air, Globus Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines, Lucky Air, Mauritania Airlines, Mongolian Airlines MIAT, Norwegian Air International Lt, Norwegian Air Norway, Norwegian Air Shuttle AS, Norwegian Air Sweden, Okay Airways Company Limited, Oman Air, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Shandong Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Shenzhen Airlines, SilkAir, Smartwings, Southwest Airlines, SpiceJet, Sunwing Airlines Inc., Thai Lion, TUI Airlines Belgium, TUI Airways, Turkish Airlines (THY), United Airlines, WestJet, Xiamen Airlines

 

Back in November the FAA issued an emergency Airworthiness Directive "prompted by analysis performed by the manufacturer showing that if an erroneously high single angle of attack (AOA) sensor input is received by the flight control system, there is a potential for repeated nose-down trim commands of the horizontal stabilizer. We are issuing this AD to address the unsafe condition on these products."

 

Appears that there was potential for the aircraft systems to get misleading AOA data (exceeding critical AOA = potential stall), prompting the systems to try and lower the a/c nose to reduce AOA. Of course if the AOA was not excessive, then there'd be too much nose down pitch. Not such a problem with altitude in hand but on rotation / climb out ... If pilots facing this situation are not fully trained to a) understand what's happening and b) how to correct, then that's not good.

 

The question to ask is this: if I'm flying on one of these aircraft, do I feel confident that the operator has acted upon the November 2018 AD and has also ensured all crews have received appropriate simulator training.

 

 

A technical article about the MCAS Boeing flight control agumentation system suspect as faulty.

Pilots are trained to immediately turn the main and backup trim switches OFF and then fly manually without autopilot for the remainder of the flight as a result to certain conditions listed or this MCAS can nose down the 737 MAX 8 into the ground. In Ethiopia the co-pilot had 200 hours total experience reported. I have more than 200 hours experience picking my nose. The plane is probably safe if you have experienced grayhair ex-military pilots and well seasoned sharp copilots but having such a built in hazard may be a big problem for Boeing going forward. 

 

http://www.b737.org.uk/mcas.htm?fbclid=IwAR2WMqx6PI5wwKhSgM99taq_MhjoOBES6GcBjw7qaohKiCRp8XHWYhZ48v4

Edited March 13, 20197 yr by Date Masamune